Session #109: Melissa Roth on Hypnotic Tenacity

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, Session number 109, Melissa Roth on Hypnotic tenacity. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Think about success in terms of running a hypnosis business, getting outstanding results, working with medical issues and learning systems to really network with the medical profession in the hypnosis profession.

Melissa Roth is one of those names that just pops up over and over time and time again, and it is about fricking time I get here, here on the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Hey there, it’s Jason Lynette welcoming you to this session, and it’s one. Uh, I’ve been planning to record for quite some time. We have rescheduled a couple of times along the way, and here we go.

Session number 109. About time with Melissa Roth. Melissa used to be in Alabama, now she’s out in Colorado, and you’re gonna hear her entire backstory in this recording here. In terms of what got her into the hypnotic profession, what really drives her success? What really is the mindset behind how do you make something work when other people aren’t getting results?

And on top of that, how do you really establish a niche market? In a crowded profession in such a way that you really stand out. Now, the timing here is impeccable because I was reaching out to Melissa just as she was announcing an upcoming workshop, which is gonna be happening online, which, uh, we all like to often fall prey to the idea that there’s not much new out there.

Well, Melissa’s going to be speaking about something in her upcoming online workshop that I’ve not yet seen anyone really, uh, thoroughly address modernly in the hypnotic profession. You can get all the details about this upcoming workshop, her books, her products, her services by simply heading over to Melissa.

Dot com and the title of that upcoming workshop. If you’re listening before May 20th, you can interact with it live. If you’re listening afterwards, I believe she’s gonna make it available as a digital download after the fact, because it’s titled Cannabis and Hypnosis. What you need to know. And if that doesn’t grab your attention to listen to this outstanding podcast session, I don’t know what will.

So with that in mind, let’s jump directly in head over to melissa roth.com though. In the meantime, check out session number 109 Melissa Roth on Hypnotic Tenacity.

My. Experience with hypnosis was when I was an undergraduate and my roommate’s, uh, father sent us a vinyl record. That’s how long ago it was, uh, for us to, uh, to improve our study habits. Um, now I don’t know how Sydney could have improved. Uh, she graduated first in her class, but, uh, he thought this was something we needed.

So one night I was, uh, sitting in the floor of our dorm room rolling my hair on orange juice cans like we did in those days. No. And, uh, she said, Do you mind if I play this record? I went, No, go ahead. I don’t care. Uh, the next thing we knew, we were both picking ourselves up off the floor going, What? What just happened?

She said, Do you think it was that record? And I went, I don’t know. Play it again. Let’s see. . And the same happened and she immediately tossed it into, into a box in the closet and never played it again. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I got to graduate school and uh, I was in grad school on a fellowship. And I was 18th out of 20th in the class at the end of the first quarter, and I was sleeping four hours a night whether I needed to or not.

And I was studying around the clock the rest of the time. So I called her up and I said, Hey, do you still have that record? And she said, Yeah. I said, Send it to me. So I started playing it every night and within a couple of days. Uh, my boyfriend and his roommate, and my roommate and another one of our friends would all gather every night to play this record.

And long story short, a year later I graduated fifth outta the class. Uh, in fact, the five of us graduated one through five outta the class. So, uh, that was my introduction to hypnosis and it was for memory retention and recall. Yeah. And I developed a photographic memory. Uh, 30 years later, I could still mentally open the Goodman and Gilman, which is the pharmacy Bible, uh, and I could read everything on the page, including the page number.

It was all out date by that point, but I could still re recall. So then to rewind, to rewind the story back, what were you, what was your study? What was your focus in, Uh, pharmacy? Yeah. And, and before, before the hypnosis appeared, what was the track that you were on? Oh, just studying my butt off. Yeah. Yeah.

What, what did you want to do with, Was the goal to become a pharmacist? Was it something different? No, the goal was to become a pharmacist. And, uh, and I achieved that goal. And when I graduated I thought, Oh no, I can’t do this. I will go mad inside 30 days. Well, school was fun and school was really interesting.

The job is standing behind a counter counting by five to a hundred all day. Mm. Yeah. And the, the biggest challenge. Today is how to use the computer systems. Right. And I thought, you know, I just, I just cannot do this. But I was lucky it was, uh, 1972 and the pharmaceutical industry was under federal mandates to hire women.

And I was the second woman hired in the nation and they put me in field sales. And after about six months, my boss came to me and said, You stink. And I’m going, I know. He said, But you’re our woman. We’re gonna find a place for you in the company. And I went, . I said, Okay, I’ve got 30 days to save enough money to pack all my crap up to ship home.

Uh, and they stuck me in human resources. Uh, because they had an open head count and the human resources director was this really frugal Scottish woman and she just couldn’t stand the thoughts that there was somebody sitting there eating her overhead and she wasn’t getting anything out of it. So, uh, after a few attempts at fighting me someplace within the company, she said, I’m gonna hire.

And they put me in, uh, recruiting at first, and then they realized that I was really good at interviewing people. So they put me into, uh, a niche. Uh, in those days, Abbott Laboratories. Counseled every employee every year as to their career with the company. And my job was to find out what it was they wanted to do, what their eventual goals were in the company, and then to counsel them on what they needed to do to, uh, be able to, oh,

Can I edit it? I’ve got good editors. Kate, get on it. . Hold on. It’s all good.

Sorry, I didn’t realize they were inside. Yeah, no worries. I’ve learned, I’ve learned, and she’ll hear this, which makes it even better. Uh, when I’m doing videos, when I’m doing audio, I now talk directly to my editors because that makes it so I don’t have to give the notes in the print form.

So the, for the video, it becomes, Hey Jan, I screwed that up. Can you just, uh, okay. Here’s a clean intro. Hey, it’s Jason. Yeah.

So, uh, long story short, um, I, uh, over the course of my career with him, I did career counseling for 15,000 employees. So I learned how to do counseling and then when I left them, I started my own human resources, uh, company, a consulting company. And, uh, part of what I did was employee, uh, career counseling and I, and then the majority it morphed into, um, using hypnosis for.

Uh, corporate goal setting for goal achievement and attainment, Uh, corporate communications, stress reduction. Oh my god. Stress reduction. Yeah. Uh, so I, I, after I did that for oh eight or 10 years, I thought, Gee, I really need to get certified in this. Somebody’s gonna sue me one day.

So I went to, uh, hypnosis school and promptly sold my consulting firm and went into hypnosis full time. Yeah. I was totally, I love it. Love it. So there, so this element of you were using it, but then the intention of going, Okay, let me now make this official. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, once I made it official, and so my.

Consulting firm, I thought, Ugh, I need clients. Mm-hmm. . And I thought, I don’t, I don’t know how to get clients, really. Uh, so of course school taught us to, and this was, you know, 1995. Uh, the school taught us to run ads, and I did. I ran a big display ad in the local Sunday paper. I got four phone calls, zero clients.

And I thought, well, I know how to work with physicians. I know that they are some of the most frustrated people on earth. I’ll go talk to them about sending over their patients that they can’t do anything with. Mm-hmm. and I did, and suddenly I was not only booked full time, but I had a waiting list anywhere from three to six weeks out.

Nice. And, uh, by, and what I found, Uh, the physicians were very willing to not only send clients, but to tell you what they thought this client needed. Uh, so I started working really as a partner with lots and lots of physicians. And I’ll tell you when, when you do that, you can ask them for IBS clients or fibromyalgia or weight loss or smoking, but they’re gonna send the stuff that just frustrates them.

Yes. And it’s fun. Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s where to have, I mean, there, there’s. There’s too much of an us versus them dialogue, oftentimes in hypnotic circles around, you know, the medical profession and these interactions. But I, I’m sure you’ve had the same experience that here’s this interaction we can do for our business to get the clients.

But then again, these same physicians have been here in my office as clients too, and very often it just comes down to. Either one, they just don’t know what purpose we can help serve. Um, my classic story is related to a guy who was here today. It’s a diabetic who’s coming in, and the doctor calls up to go and her actual statement was, I don’t see how you’d cure this with hypnosis, Which I responded, Yeah, I don’t either, because that’s not what we’re gonna do.

Um, , she, your, your patient is looking to build better compliance with the dietary recommendations that you’ve given her. So, I’m gonna motivate her to do the things that you’ve told her to do. And her language with a lot of profanity was, well, hell, that was a different word. Uh, . Well, hell, if you can do that, can I send you 10 more people?

It’s like, Well, yeah. She goes, and she, and she sent me more than that over the time. And again, they will sometimes have that one pop up to go, Yeah, I don’t know what’s going on with this one. Why don’t you go to Jason for. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, I had a rheumatologist recently, uh, sent, he sent over, uh, another autoimmune, well, sent over another, uh, client, and, and his note was, I don’t have a clue what’s wrong with this guy.

Mm-hmm. . So I, I met with the, with the guy, and I’m thinking, Man, this just sounds. This sounds autoimmune. Uh, so we started working and after about oh three sessions, the rheumatologist called me one night and he said, Do you know what’s wrong with him yet?

no diagnosis is your bag, but. What my gut feeling tells me that this is an autoimmune disease. And he says, Well, I’ve run all the usual tests. Let me dig a little deeper. And sure enough, he found out that this guy had a really rare autoimmune condition. And so he called back and he said, There’s nothing medically we can do for him.

I said, Don’t worry about it. I can do it. Oh, thank you, . This was also interspersed with a lot of profanity. Yes. Uh, and so, uh, about eight sessions later, the guy was sent them free, was back at work, back doing, uh, crazy, crazy exercise routine called extreme. It’s, oh, I can’t remember, some extreme exercise routine that set this whole thing off.

And I’m going, you know, maybe you need to consider less tenuous exercise fees. Uh, but he’s, that was, oh gosh, that was, I think that was four years ago and he still checks in every once in a while what I’m still doing. Okay. So it, it becomes really gratifying when we can do. Yeah, and it’s where, And just, I’m just curious here, was it a matter of going after the symptoms, going after some of the emotional stuff?

What was kind of the route with that? Uh, both. Yeah. I, I always start off just giving them symptom relief. Right. Palliative care. Yeah. Because by the time they get to me, uh, they’ve, they’ve been through the medical system, they’ve been to acupuncture and massage and, uh, chiropractic, and nobody’s given the any relief.

Mm-hmm. . So if I wanna keep him as a client, then. I give them some palliative care, you know, get the pain thresholds down, get them to sleep better. Um, you know, whatever it is that their symptoms are, just give them some relief. Yeah. And then, then we start into why have you got this? What is this and why do you have this?

And once I know why, well, I got the unconscious mind says is why then we can. Uh, do, uh, you know, do the therapy for it. But you gotta understand that the mind body highway is a two-way street. The emotions impact the physicality and the physical symptoms impact the emotions. So sometimes they can get all tangled up and you have to be a bit of a detective to, uh, unravel.

But I’ll tell you what I appreciate from that the most. And it’s not just because it’s the exact same thing that I do and you’re just helping to validate it. Uh, what I appreciate from it the most is that no, it, it’s a real concern that very often, you know, we’d fall prey to this. I need to find out the why.

I need to find out the cause. I need to go after this specific thing. I’ve even gone so far as to hear in some workshops, Oh, I know why that person has that issue. Which case number one, they’re in front of you. Uh, give them relief. Go after the issue. As I’d say it. Go after the issue that they hired you for first, and get, at least get in the foot in the door.

Get them feeling better, sleeping better, digesting food more easily, you know, improve that quality of life, which, Um, based on my hack science statement is that you’re now building rapport with both the conscious and the unconscious mind. And then to go in for any deeper level work, it’s gonna go a lot better that way.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so, uh, you know, I don’t do, I don’t ever do regression cause. I, I don’t, I don’t like it. Uh, I know for myself, um, I got into this full time as a hypnotherapist because I used self hypnosis to treat my own debilitating IBS and fibromyalgia symptoms. Uh, and that’s why way to sell the consulting firm was because I was tired of traveling.

90% of the time, I physically couldn’t do it anymore. And so, I did, you know, the back in the seventies, the, I mean the nineties regression to cause and fix it was the, was the operating mo, you know, operating modem of the time. And every time I did regression to cause on myself, I went to a different cause.

Mm-hmm. and I’m thinking, mm, I don’t think this is really valid anymore. So I never do that with my clients. Well, I share, I share another thought on it, which is that it’s, it’s still a model that I’ll make use of though the hypno analysis to the cause part is the least of my focus. And the greater focus is then that hypnotherapy moving forward about how do I.

How do we leverage this moment? How do we use this as that turning point, which given the models of what’s often called informed child, really for me, it’s all about getting the client to a place where they’re now, they’re now giving direct suggestion hypnosis to themself. They’re now doing that rebuilding phase.

That the rebuilding is more important to me than the, the slingshot. And letting go and propulsion into the outcome is more important than the magnifying glass going, Nope, that’s because of. Good luck. No, it’s, it’s the, it’s about the change in rebuilding, which brings in a theme here, which as someone else who is well known for talking about the business of hypnosis.

There’s a, there’s a phrase that I’d often make use of that it’s very rarely the platform, it’s almost always the strategy, um, that it comes down to, well, how do, how do we make it work? So to, to look at this incredible. Career that you’ve had inside of hypnosis, What would you say from a strategic standpoint, uh, not so much platform, so not just the networking with doctors, but from the strategic mindset, what would you say is really that, that key to what you’ve done?

Um, tenacity. Yeah. Just, I don’t know when to give up. Yeah. Um, , I mean, that’s, that’s the honest truth. I love it. Uh, you know, and in the beginning I didn’t know enough to throw into towel and say, uh, you know, this is a lost cause. And, and I was fortunate in that, um, I stumble. Literally stumbled across things that worked, but it was, it was just really hit or miss.

Uh, and my theories about why it work came way later, uh, based on a pattern that I saw of what was working and what wasn’t working. Mm-hmm. . And once I saw the pattern that I, that I thought, well, Okay, I understand why this is working now. And the thing that I, uh, really would like to emphasize is that with clients, most of the time, the unconscious mind, uh, has already, uh, dealt with whatever the trigger was and it’s moved on.

So, uh, you know, regressing the cause doesn’t have a all that much value. Uh, I do, the closest that I come to regression is, uh, NLP parts Reframe. Mm-hmm. , uh, and know that may or may not be the ise, but I just say, you know, get in touch with the part of you that first developed the lifestyle or the symptoms or whatever it is.

And, um, they go, Okay. And, and they go right there. And then if you, uh, get that part, give it a different job. Promote it. Yeah. You know, whatever, whatever reason it was, uh, that they developed, this really isn’t that valid anymore. So just that part to buy into taking a promotion. Uh, a new job and the new job is to make them healthier and it works.

And what’s great about that is it’s that forward moving momentum. I mean, back to the, to the answer of tenacity, that the game of figuring out what works and what doesn’t work. But still, I’d imagine even when there’s something that does work, there’s the intention of going, How do I make that work even better next time.

Oh yes. Yeah. You know, anything. Um, I had a student that emailed in a question earlier today saying, Well, what, what do you do if it doesn’t work? And I emailed her back and I said, It will work. I have done this therapy personally on over 2000 clients. Mm-hmm. . And it works. And if it doesn’t work, then it’s because.

It’s not ibs, it’s something else. Yeah. And you need to send them back to their doctor. And I said, if, when I’m testing a therapy or uh, or even as simple as a single script for a client, Unless I’m getting 80% or better success rate, nobody ever sees or hears about it. . , that one just gets trashed. . And we looking at, you know, I took a photography class one time, uh, this was way back.

And, uh, when I lived in Athens, Georgia and a time life photographer had, uh, move. To Athens licking his wounds, editor, his divorce, and he was running a photography class at the little local trade school. And my neighbor and I decided we’d take it. And his big thing was, whatever shot you’re going to take before you take it, walk three steps to the right and look at it from that angle, and then go three steps to the left and look at it from that angle.

And I use that as my basic approach. Uh, hit the therapy as well. I want to look at it from multiple angles before I commit to one of them. And if I do that, then it becomes a lot more efficacious for the client. And most of the time we get a lot better outcome. So if, if, if I’m not hitting at least 80% with something, you’ll never know that I was even trying it.

So that constant experiment, which you did something there that I also wanted to spend some time chatting with you about here, uh, as someone who has personally made use of information from your book, Healing Metaphors. Uh, and I was curious if there’s some sort of creative process that you’ve used in terms of crafting metaphors if it’s more stream of consciousness and inspiration hitting with, hitting with, uh, with preparation or if you’re on the lookout for them, or if you find them just by organic sources.

What, what’s kind of your process of using metaphors with clients? Um, I think in metaphor, I, I never learned how to develop direct suggestions. Yeah. Uh, my, my base instructor had been, uh, an instructor for Tony Robbins for three years prior to teaching hypnosis. And I was in his first class, and honestly, he really didn’t know what he was doing.

So we learned, uh, in nlp, hypnosis and ericsonian as one modality called hypnosis. Um, and so I never really learned. To develop direct suggestions. Mm-hmm. , and, uh, and I’ve never learned how to do it still. I just suck at it. . Uh, I mean, that’s the honest previous, I just, I just think, um, so, but mostly they’re organic.

Uh, they come to me from, well, I’ll give you an example there in that book, Healing Metaphors. There’s. A metaphor called inroads, and it’s, it’s, I developed it to heal this client’s bone. Uh, that wouldn’t, it had been six months. He’d had a terrible motorcycle accident. He was racing motorcycles and just.

Shattered his right leg and everything healed. I mean, he had something like 15 screws in his leg and all of them healed except for this one, and it had been six months and they had used activators and everything else under the sun and it just wasn’t healing. And they told him this, You know when you come back in two weeks?

If there’s no, uh, movement towards healing, then we’re gonna have to amputate your leg. So that’s when he called me and I thought, Shit, I don’t know what to do. Uh, but I had, I had a few days notice and I was sitting at the end of my driveway. I had this, I had this seven minute window. When I could leave my house and get to my office in 35 minutes, if I missed that window every morning, it would take me an hour and a half to get to my office and I’m sitting there.

And they’re starting to resurface my road and they’ve got me blocked in and I’m, I’m sitting there fing just, Oh, I’m gonna miss that window. I’m gonna be late. And then I thought, Well, there’s nothing you can do about this. You may as well enjoy the process. They’ll, they’re gonna let you outta your driveway when they decide to let you outta your driveway.

And so I was sitting there. This whole process, uh, unfold in front of me and I realized it was very much like how bones are made, are formed. You’ve got these osteo, uh, blasts that come along and eat up. The old worn out bone, which is very much like that machine that was eating up the old torn up pothole, asphalt.

And then they ca, they come back and they start laying down a new foundation, a new road foundation, and they use different size rocks and different materials to lay the foundation. And then the osteo class come through. And they lay down. I may have gotten those two osteo blast and osteo class reversed.

Anyway, the other cells come in and they lay down a new surface on these bones, on the ends of your bones where the other cells have eaten up the dead. You know, malformed not good surfaces. And so, um, I utilized what I could have. I could have sat there and fumed for several minutes, uh, more. But I realized that there was an educational process and that it was very much like how bones are healed.

So I went to my office and I started working around suggestions. Uh, using, uh, this metaphor. So the inspiration comes organically and then I take some time to craft exactly how it should, how it should flow. So it’s mostly inspiration and then some. Uh, some work, right? Yeah. It starts with the initial, I’d share a similar, let’s call it frustration, turning into a strength that, uh, I never grasped the idea of sitting down and writing out a script.

Uh, Instead, here’s, here’s the book that I give in my trainings. Here’s the handouts inside of hypnotic workers, and they’re all transcripts. I, I, I talk pretty, I don’t write so good. Uh, and it’s more, but the, but which turn into a strength though, because like some of the audio programs that I do, I will come up with three I.

I will actually either come up with or pull out three individual case studies of clients, and if the audio program is something that’s gonna be a little bit more widely distributed, it’s sold as a product, I’m going to craft my suggestions in a way that could fit for all three of these people. And it’s more so that creative mindset folding in the bullet points of what needs to be addressed, but rather than hemming and hauling over individual word choices.

It comes back to what is this? Like what is this similar to? What’s appropriate for this person? What would work for all three of these? And using that more let’s more creative mindset to get that in place. Yes, exactly. So it’s, it’s, uh, and then of course, you know, when I’m going through it, I can, I personalize it to whoever’s sitting in front of me and their needs.

But you know, you come up with a good framework and. It’s, it’s, it’s like building a house. You’ve got to have that basic infrastructure first. You can’t use a metaphor to teach metaphors. Wait a minute, . Okay, go ahead. It’s like building a house,

Uh, I told you I think in metaphors. Exactly. I love that. But so it, you know, once you’ve got a basic framework, then you can hang sheet rocks, You can, uh, make all kinds of walls and a roof and, uh, divide it into rooms, whatever you wanna do, . And, and that way you can personalize it for each individual client.

I love it. I love it. So, Moving things over to some of the business. I was curious to ask, um, having worked with so many people to help build their hypnosis businesses, you mentioned your strength was the tenacity just to go in and, and make it work. It’s where, On a similar note, my original strategy was going, Okay, I’m gonna do this.

Let’s see what happens. And signing, signing a big, scary lease and. Making it work as opposed to dipping the toes in just jumping directly. There’s those metaphors again, jumping directly into the pool and saying, I’m gonna figure out how to swim. So what would you say, I could ask it two ways. One would be, what would you say is the biggest mistake that people make in launching their business?

Um, or the more positive phrasing would be, What’s the one thing you think people need to do more of? Uh, I think the biggest mistake that they make, That they don’t realize they’ve graduated from school and now. They’ve got to run a business. Yes. They go into hypnosis because they wanna help people. Well, that’s the same way that physicians are.

They go into medicine because they wanna help people, and then they come out and they go, Oh, I’ve got to run this business. People are not just gonna come knock on my door. No, they don’t do that for anybody’s business. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so you, I think the biggest mistake that they make is that they don’t realize that you’ve got to build and run a business as well as doing therapy.

And if you don’t, it’s. I’m gonna get on a bit of a soapbox here because, Oh, I’m about to join you. My belief, , my belief system is that if you’re in business, you have a moral obligation to turn a profit. If you do, then you can invest in more training. You can hire people who can do the things that you’re not good at, or that even though you might be good at them, they’re not directly related to therapy.

So you need to outsource those things and focus on what your strengths are. You can, if you turn a profit, you can do all kinds of things. If you don’t turn a profit, then you have to shut your doors and nobody’s served that way. So that, that’s, that’s the end of my soapbox. You have a moral obligation to, to turn a profit.

I love it. I love it. Phrase that way. Okay. And, and it’s so often, you know, I’ve, in a previous podcast session, I did one that was titled, uh, Savior, uh, or Superhero syndrome, That the superhero syndrome is kind of that outsourcing mindset that we can’t do it all ourselves. And even if we can, we shouldn’t. I mean, before.

Before I hit the recording button, you and I were chatting about webinar platforms and your comment was, I need to find one that I can give to someone else and let them run it for me. And I recommended, Well, here’s the one that I use, and it costs a little bit more, but that’s because they do the work for you.

Um, but there’s also that savior syndrome that we’d often link it to go. I mean, that’s, that’s what built the entire. Passion of talking to hypnotist about their business was that I was at a convention and someone said, Oh, that’s nice that you have a hobby of running your website. I’m more interested in helping my clients.

Yeah. . Um, and to find out I was seeing more people than they were in a week than they were seeing in a month. So , we, we have these outstanding skills and the skills are, I mean, here’s a guy who I shot a video testimonial. Today that went from daily sugar cravings to absolute zero, he’s down seven pounds and by working with his doctor, he’s reduced his diabetic medications already in half.

And yeah, here’s this outstanding skill that we need more people out there doing that. We need more people out there getting that result. So it’s where. It’s my moral responsibility. I agree with you. I’d I’d add on the phrase that it’s the moral responsibility to do everything that is ethically appropriate to get that client into the office too.

Yes, I agree with you. We can placate, we can make someone feel a little bit better on a phone call yet. I know that if you’re in my chair, if you have paid for this service and re really go for this thing, we’re gonna get on the other side of. Yes. So that’s where to invest in some business training to invest in, whether it’s specific inside of hypnosis.

You’ve got products. I’ve got products, and many other have similar things as well, or to look outside of it too, that it’s within our responsibility. It, it goes back to, uh, the classic book from, uh, Michael Gerber, The Emit Revisited. He talks about the three personalities, the entrepreneur, the manager, the technician.

Just because we have that technical skill of doing hypnosis, that’s not just enough to hang up the shingle and build the business. We’ve gotta get out there and tell people that we’re here and really build that as well. Exactly. You know, they, you, you can’t hide. And I think a lot of, uh, a lot of young, well, not just young hypnotist, uh, hypnotist, Of all experienced levels, uh, would really like to sit in their office and not get out and do marketing.

They’d like to just run ads and have people show up, but it just doesn’t work that way. At least not in my experience, it hasn’t. And, uh, but I, I think they’re, I think too many people. Are afraid to talk to potential clients when they’re not in their comfort zone, which is their office. I talk hypnosis everywhere I go.

Uh, you know, sitting at the bar, uh, at uh, at a play out at a horse show. I’m constantly talking hypnosis. One because I like it, right? And two, because people are really interested, people are curious about it, and I just simply don’t understand why. I mean, I hear, I hear people complain that they don’t have enough clients, and I don’t understand it.

I really don’t understand it because I pick up clients everywhere. I. Because I simply talk about hypnosis. I love it. I love it, Pat. I don’t understand how they don’t. Yes. Bring that passion. My phrase is that you get to walk into any room and you already know that you have the most interesting job of somebody there.

Yeah, yeah, you do. So you’ve done something interesting, which, Is that you were able to build, uh, and I imagine part of it came about because of your own successes, the things that you’ve personally gone through, uh, this mindset of building a niche in terms of a specialty, in terms of what you do the most of.

Um, well, I only do medical hypnotherapy anymore. Yes. Um, and, and that’s because that’s all I know anymore. Yeah. . So it was, it was it, I mean, I knew a few other things in the beginning. Uh, in the beginning I knew how to do. Weight loss and stop smoking. Um, I haven’t done those in eight or 10 years though, or maybe longer now.

Um, I haven’t had time to do them because I’ve gotten the luxury of. Ticking and choosing the things that I want to do. And I had done so many of those that I was bored with it. Yeah. Uh, so I’m sorry, what was your question again? , Uh, you’re, you’re on the right track here. I was talking about choosing a niche, though I think it’s more so that the niche chose you.

It sounds like the niche chose me, Uh, really and truly. Uh, because I knew, I knew the frustrations. I mean, my ex-husband is a, is a physician and, um, I knew the frustrations that he had had and all of our friends had with their, their businesses, which were, which was the business of medicine. So it was easy for me to talk to them.

I didn’t have the same, uh, mindset. Oh, these are superheroes and I need to be respectful. It was, okay. This is their job. I have a job. This is their job, and I can help them out. And so when I approached them that way of here’s what I can do to help you. And make your life better instead of what can you do for me?

Then it worked. Mm-hmm. and it worked so well that I just didn’t have time to see anybody else. Yeah. They were sending over and they still are sending over so many people. Uh, I went to talk to this one particular gastroenterologist a couple of weeks ago. And I said, uh, Jim, um, you know, I’m trying to retire from seeing private clients, and you, you need to stop sending these folks.

And he listened to, you know, I, I went on this, uh, uh, justification soap box for two or three minutes and he listened and it was polite. And then he looked me in the eyes and he. Hire somebody. Mm-hmm. . And he turned on his heels and walked away . I went, Oh, okay. And then the very next day, day I got two more referrals from him.

Yeah. . So, so the, the niche. Uh, kind of chose me, so I’m curious to ask. There’s a, there’s a workshop that you’ve got coming up in a bit. Um, it’s, it’s, you’re already laughing and I love it. Um, whi, which, oh, I’ll just let you check the lead on this one. Uh, to, to chat a little bit about the history. Well, let me ask you this.

I, I would say, let me see if I can pull up the exact reference here. And it might have to be digging into my, uh, my Facebook archives for the private group with hypnotic workers. , and it may take me too long to pull it up, but a student of mine, uh, who I’m about to have on this, uh, program too, actually I think I’ve got it here, Uh, Hall.

John Hall is this incredible historian of all things hypnosis and, um, here it is. Um, nope, that’s not it. And I’ll find it later and put it in the show notes. Uh, but basically, nope. Found it. Um, Hypnotism, uh, its history, practice and Theory by Jay Bramwell. Uh, an insight from 1906, uh, which was all about the use of, uh, is this the one he was finding the use of different, uh, drugs to supplement the hypnotic process, uh, which you have this upcoming workshop all about, and to get the title right, cannabis and hypnosis, what you need to know.

Right. And if only Melissa Roth, who used to be in Alabama, is now in Colorado. Hmm. . Well, actually I saw, I saw I had more clients coming into my office high in Alabama that I have had in Colorado. But, and of course Alabama will probably be the last state in the union to legalize pot. Mm-hmm. . Um, I mean, we wanted to get rid of just sessions out of Alabama.

We just didn’t wanna promote. Uh, and he took a big promotion, but, um, uh, no, I, I just, I noticed starting several years ago that I had clients coming in and they, they were just, uh, something wasn’t right. And it finally dawned on me, uh, these people are on drugs. Mm-hmm. not prescription drugs. Uh, and so, I, I mean, I’m, I’m known for my lack of diplomacy,

Uh, and so I would just ask, you know, what’d you take before you came in? And quite frequently, or most frequently, it was, it was pot because they were coming in, you know, they were coming to a theist and they’d never been to a hit before. They didn’t know whether it was, you know, They knew I was kind of professional because I didn’t have this neon palm outside the office door.

Uh, but they didn’t know what to expect and they were com they were nervous, they were anxious, so they’d smoke a joint. Or they take a couple of hits, uh, off a bottom before they came in to, to ease their anxieties. And, um, then here in Colorado, they’ve come in not just, uh, high, but ab some of them absolutely stoned outta their minds.

Well, if they’re, if they’re that stoned, there’s nothing I can do with them. Yeah, I’d agree with you. Um, and I have to reappoint. , but there’s a whole gamut of people who come, who are coming in, who are just a little buzzed. And it really makes, uh, it makes, it makes it easier for me as a hypnotherapist because they’re already in touch with their unconscious mind.

Mm-hmm. , they’re already relaxed. All you have to do is say, close your eyes. Now, describe for me what’s going on. And they’re there and they have lost their inhibitions in a lot of cases, and so they can tell you exactly what’s going on, and then we can have some very creative sessions. So it, it makes it a lot of fun.

In addition to, uh, makes it easier for them. Well, I think I shared the story with you before. I think I shared it by Facebook. Me, Yeah. Facebook message here. The story of which on one side of things, for anybody who may already be critical of the idea, I, I just respectfully fold in, and this is coming from someone.

Who really doesn’t use, And you know, my, my joke was as soon as I crossed over 30 a few years ago, uh, anything beyond one or two drinks and I’m just falling asleep, um, . So, and it kind of goes back to my thoughts on working with clients with issues of involving religion. That there’s the incredible George Carlin who at one point reduced the 10 commandments down to one, uh, which was, thou shall thou shall keep the religion to th itself.

So it’s not. What my belief system is, it’s the person in the chair. So on one side of things, I really get, it’s the joke of always, uh, guitar groups are going out of style, so I’m not gonna sign these Beatles, you know? And then, yeah, look at what happened. Um, there’s a point in time where alcohol was illegal and now it’s a very different society.

Um, certain things that at one point were frowned upon and are now widely accepted. Let’s throw in co. Let’s throw in hypnosis, which these are, yes, very false equivalences, but it’s a similar journey. So at point to, you look at the the Civil rights movement in this country over the last 50, 60 years, and things are very different now.

So this is kind of that next big thing, and there’s momentum in place, a number of states and the medicinal side as well. So it’s where I’d encourage anybody to gather any information that they can appropriately get. because again, there’s segments of the population. The guy who, the number of clients who have come in and said to me, So I’m here to quit smoking cigarettes.

Do you understand me? And I went, Oh yeah, absolutely . And that’s what they came in for. That’s what we addressed. And likewise, of course I’ve had clients coming in to quit smoking pot to, uh, reduce things down. Or the story I told you was the guy who came into the office going. The guy was actually an old, uh, uh, music executive or a studio musician.

I forget the exact nature of it. Uh, yet he had a very musical way of speaking, so it’s just locked in my brain ever since then of, so I have a, I have an extracurricular hobby that I feel if I make use of it. Appropriately and walk to your office. I think I’d be in a better frame of mind for the hypnosis.

Is that okay? To which I just, I just smiled and said you didn’t say a thing, but I know exactly what you just said. If it’s ever a hindrance, I’ll, I’ll cut it back. Sound fair? He goes, I appreciate that. And the sessions with him. I mean, he’d walk in the room and I could tell right away. Um, but it wasn’t to a level of being.

I mean, the extreme was I had one client who I did have the threaten to call and say, uh, if you get in your car and drive, I am calling the police because you’re in my neighborhood. Get someone to come get you. So I mean, there’s a full gamut of this. Uh, what is it in terms of like the bullet points, what is it you think that most hypnotists need to be aware of?

Concerning this category, Uh, I must admit, just need to be aware of what the client looks like when they come in because they’re not always Yes. Several of them will tell you, you know, I’m, this is what I’m doing. Mm-hmm. , uh, and even if, even if I ask, a lot of ’em won’t admit it, but you know that there’s something a little off with this client mm-hmm.

And so, uh, you need to. What people look like when they’re in your chair, what they act like and what they, the code words that they say that let you know that they are, uh, you know, they’re using pot already. And, and my, in, you know, in the beginning, I never advocated and I, I still don’t advocate to many people, uh, many clients that they utilize pot, but it’s dealing with what.

The client presents. Yeah. I mean, it’s more of a deal with what emerges rather than a recommendation. I think that’s the clarity here. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Uh, now I get, I do get clients that are sent over by physicians, uh, and, you know, they, they’re for Parkinson’s or for, uh, some of these other ms. Uh, and I will say, you know, have you seen the studies?

Right. And because most everybody, unless they’ve got their head in the sand, they have seen them and I go, You know, is this something that you have considered? And most of the time they have. And so I will educate them on how to use that in conjunction with hypnotherapy. But the vast majority of the time, it is just utilizing what the client presents with.

And so most ti Methodists really need to know that, you know, you have these people in your chair, whether they’re telling you that they’re using it or not. They are. And so you need to know how to utilize what the client presents with wh when they present and they obviously are, uh, buzzed to stoned.

Mm-hmm. , that’s the biggest thing. How do you recognize it then? What do you do about it? And what you do about it is, is basically your own comfort level. Uh, you know, you don’t have to work with it, but you can, and they’re turning up anyway, so you may as well learn how to, how to utilize what they’re doing.

Right. I think that’s, I mean, it’s where there is some, and even I’d argue this is even someone who doesn’t use it myself, that, um, you know, you look at statistics, you look at research and the argument can be easily made that. More people are making use of alcohol, and alcohol is related to more deaths, more injuries, more accidents, more everything.

And again, just to gather the information about what is it that we should be aware of. What I, what I loved inside of the insight that you just shared was even the moment of, there’s a difference between the hypnotist saying you should do this versus the, perhaps you should look into that. Um, I am, I am so insanely risk averse.

Inside of my process with clients, um, that I won’t even go so far as dimension specific foods working with a weight loss client unless they’ve brought up that specific food. Otherwise, I’m in my head going allergies, uh, , choking, hazard, all this cr e even so far as. Uh, there’s a well known weight loss protocol that has some guidelines inside of it, that, one of which is take a multivitamin.

And I’m in my head going, Okay, I can flash back to being about 20 years old and taking a one a day on an empty stomach, and I was throwing up on the side of the road because they tell you don’t take that on an empty stomach. Uh, and nowadays my vitamins live here at the office and I eat them with my lunch.

So I don’t even bring that up. But it’s that place of if there is a resource that is appropriate for the client. I’m not above sending, you know, here’s some research on this to look into. Um, you know, and sometimes we have that resource if we don’t have that resource. My language is often, uh, I don’t have a resource for you though.

When you find something that helps you, please let me know so I can share it with other people in the future. So I’m at least, I’m at least hinting, I’m at least future pacing that something is going to help though, again, where if they’re mentioning, here’s what, here’s how I’m eating. And I’m going, Okay, that sounds exactly like this diet.

You know, here’s a link to the book as opposed to here’s the guidelines, let’s reinforce it. Which kind of falls into a similar line here of going, Well, here’s the research, here’s what you could look into and you can now seek out the appropriate steps. Exactly. And, and that’s my approach. Uh, that’s what I’d like to get across to other hypnotists.

You know, your clients are using this substance. It’s not up to you to, uh, pass judgment and say, You know, you should do this. You should do that. You shouldn’t do this. You, you’ve just got to utilize what they’re doing. And in many cases, educate them, uh, but so that they can do what they’re doing more appropriately.

And they’re, you know, uh, in my opinion, cannabis is not the be all, end all heal all. Uh, it’s got upsides. It’s got downsides, unfortunately, because of the, uh, prohibition that we’ve been on since 1937. Um, we don’t know what those downsides are. We’ve got to remove some of these obstacles so we can do research and we can know for sure what it’s good for and when it shouldn’t be used just like anything else.

But I would, I would far rather have somebody who was a little high on potty in my chair than somebody who had two or three drinks before they came in. Mm-hmm. , you know, alcohol is, I mean, I drink occasionally. I’m not gonna tell anybody, you know, not to unless they’ve got a problem with it. But the same thing applies, uh, to pot.

I don’t, I don’t instruct clients to use it, but when they are, I want them to use it appropriately. And also the importance of if they are using and whether they’re modifying that or maintaining that, how do you work with these clients? I think that’s definitely, uh, something that the information needs to be out there and why I’m gonna be a part of that online workshop as well, which, uh, details can be found over at, uh, melissa roth.com.

Uh, the dates, the details, again, it’s an online workshop from the comfort of your own home or office. Look at that nice copy. Um, as well as if you’re on that page, I will just go ahead and directly point you to where you also should go, uh, to click on products, and then click for professionals. And, uh, I looking here, I have most of what you sell, um, and I’ve, I have learned so much from it, and this is something that I think you’d agree.

Uh, what is it now two years running that we’ve been meaning to record one of these things? About that. Yeah. We finally got around, finally got around and they said it wouldn’t happen. Oh no, I haven’t been recording. No, I’m kidding. We’re actually recording . So before we, before we wrap up, uh, I, I’d love to ask you, what is it that you’re excited about in hypnosis moving forward?

Oh, geez. Just the, the potential, uh, for new. For new applications, new, new therapies, new markets. Uh, I mean, I’m, I’m a hypno geek, you know, I just kind of, I like those things, uh, excite me. And I think that this is one that’s going to be very exciting down, down the road when we learn how to, uh, how to utilize, uh, cannabis.

We, uh, as another hypnotic tool. I’m, I’m really excited about that because I think that’s one of the things that’s going to happen in the not very distant future, uh, within a couple of years. Uh, the way things are going, and I mean, we already use other tools. We use diet, we use. Uh, you know, we utilize whatever drugs they’re taking.

And this is just another one, but it’s one that, uh, with my niche in medical applications has a huge potential and I’m interested in ex and actually designing, uh, now some research projects where we’re actually using combining pot use with hypnosis to see if we can, uh, get the. Cancer free rapidly, uh, or to help, uh, their symptoms.

And I don’t, I don’t wanna say too much about that because it’s really just in the, in the design stages at this point. Well think, it kinda goes back to the, the statement earlier about tenacity. That, you know, far too often we’d fall prey either in business or even working with clients of going, Well, that didn’t work.

And the better question of going, Well, how do I make that work better though, it really comes back to the question of, well, what if. So what if, what if this went in a different direction? What if, you know, the, the number of, even on the, the medicine side, even the pharmaceutical side, um, here’s this heart medication that really didn’t work so great as a heart medication, but for men had a rather interesting side effect and suddenly the me Yeah, the story of Viagra where they pivoted and went, Oh no, let’s make it this.

And they modified the, uh, the, the recipe as it were to make it more appropriate for that one side effect. Um, where. What if this does this? Well, what if I do this technique in a different way? What if I use this method in a way that most people aren’t thinking of it and suddenly we hit on something that becomes massively effective?

Uh, which kind of goes back to bringing all full circle to that ethical responsibility to to, to run that business, to be successful, but also to continue that growth of going what else is possible? . Yeah, exactly. And I’m, I’m really excited about that because I think that there’s a lot of possibilities.

And, uh, I wanna, I wanna know, it’s a new toy. I wanna play with it.

Jason, Lynette here. And as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program. Head over to melissa roth.com to get the details of her upcoming online workshop, her outstanding products as well. And as we’re talking about hypnotic business, well head over to Hypnotic business Systems. Dot com.

That’s where you get the entire digital access to my hypnosis business training library. It’s not just lectures, it’s strategies, it’s actual done for you marketing tutorials. It’s step by step instruction that makes it just as if you’re sitting with me here at my office and I’m showing you exactly how I built my six figure hyp.

Business. So simply head over to hypnotic business systems.com and get instant digital access to that program for just $47. Hypnotic business systems.com. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.