Session #130: Thomas Safrin on Law Enforcement NLP

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 130, Thomas Saffron on law enforcement in lp. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business six. Sets. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Hey there and welcome back.

It’s Jason Lynette here with an outstanding conversation that I know you’re gonna find a lot of interesting insights inside of, as well as some practical applications of some hypnosis change work, as well as business strategy applications too. You see inside of this work Smart Hypnosis series, there are of course those moments where I’m interviewing people that you likely already know.

Uh, you know, major hypnosis trainers, authors of some of the greatest books within this profession. There are solo sessions where I’m teaching my own content, either from the change work application or the business side of things. But then again, there’s also those moments where I’m featuring people that chances are for most of you, This is the first time you’re meeting them, and this is one of those sessions.

Thomas Saffron is a former law enforcement officer that reached out to me a couple of years back and found himself traveling from Georgia up to Virginia to train with me in my hypnosis trainings that I do at my Virginia Hypnosis office, and he was an outstanding student from day one and came into it with a rather interesting background.

That a former instructor of nlp yet specifically in terms of interviews, in terms of interrogations, in terms of the applications to that, if a police officer, emergency responder, and other related fields. Just fascinating stuff. Thomas and I just recently got to reconnect as he was back in town attending.

Work smart NLP training. And uh, here we are actually having a conversation after class one of the days. A quick side note, uh, I was using my remote, uh, sound recording system that day, so we did have a bit of a technical error with. The sound. However, a big thanks to my editors over at Audio Adrenaline Studio.

They went in, they cleaned up the audio, and it sounds better. It’s still got a couple of flaws, a little bit of ringing. Appears for a few moments though. Stick with this information. You’re gonna find a lot of valuable information inside of it. Thomas is, uh, certified with the National Guild of Hypnotist.

He’s done several other advanced trainings relating to forensic hyp. Pain control hypnosis, emergency hypnosis. And again, he’s also an internationally recognized and respected law enforcement and security professional trainer and criminal justice professor. Talk about an outstanding resume. And in this conversation we’re not only gonna talk about his background of NLP in terms of working as a law enforcement, uh, officer, but also we’re gonna talk about just the nuts and bolts of somebody who has started up his own hypnosis office.

And is now actively seeing a bunch of clients. So there’s gonna be applications inside of all of this information. To learn more about my upcoming trainings, head over to work smart hypnosis.com, or more specifically, work smart hypnosis live.com. That’s the upcoming hypnosis training. Plus there’s also Work Smart NLP dot.

Are you noticing a bit of a branding thing here going on upcoming trainings, live interactive courses? Yes. We’ve got a ton of information inside of the digital access programs like hypnotic workers and hypnotic business systems. Though specifically, I designed my live trainings to help you to become confident and competent in your skills.

And the thing that really. That apart is that live hands on monitored practice, getting the feedback as to what you’re doing well, what you can improve upon, and that’s what you can learn inside of work. Smartt hypnosis live.com or work smartt n lp.com details all over at the show notes. They’ll also check out again, Hypnosis of Savannah.

Dot com to learn more about Thomas. So with that, let’s jump right in. This is session number 130 Thomas Saffron on Law Enforcement nlp.

Well, it really wasn’t with hypnosis, it was actually with nlp, which of course I’ve come to find is absolutely related. So kind of the short story goes that I had, uh, a enough of a strange, uh, childhood that could be an entire like, series of Jerry Springer shows. Um, and as I had, that was at age nine 10 as I became a, a teenager.

I, uh, came across, I can’t remember which Tony Robbins book. It was, uh, I think it might have been Awakened The Giant Within Unlimited Power One, one of those. Um, and, and read about N O P. And, uh, of course in that book it’s, it’s a very short version of nlp, but, um, but I kind of internalized some of that. Um, and then kind of fast forward into my adult life, um, as a police officer.

Which probably because of all of the childhood issues had a lot of interaction with the police growing up. I decided I wanted to be one. Um, and then found that nlp, uh, was something that we used in, uh, interview and interrogation techniques and, and other communication strategies, and then later became an instructor and, and found some of these same things were used in education, uh, dual education theory.

Um, and, and was even teaching some of these NLP things, a as it relates to interviews and interrogation. Yeah. In that context, was it being labeled as an lp? Was it being branded as that or was it being called something else? Well, they, they would talk about Bandler Grinder and the origin and nlp, but then most, uh, most trainers will call it cognitive, uh, interview techniques or something along that, that line, I’ve even heard it called Kinesic interview techniques, which.

Maybe slightly different, but, uh, but so then you fast forward later in my, in my life, um, as an instructor actually working overseas on a, on a contract, uh, uh, for the Department of State and was just having sort of a casual conversation with the, a colleague who, uh, a little, she’s, she’s a little odd, you know, we’re, we’re sitting around talking.

Uh, what we’re gonna all do when we get done with the mission. And most people are talking about going back to law enforcement or starting some related thing, and, and she mentioned, uh, hypnotherapy. And I was, I was intrigued. So that night I found myself on like a 12 or 13 hour Google, uh, search, just investigating.

Uh, You know, hypnosis in general and realized the relationship between hypnosis and nlp. So, uh, that led me to start looking at the possibility of, of actually getting some training. At that time, I, I guess I was kind of thinking of it in terms of just the law enforcement side of stuff, like, let’s go to the horse’s mouth kind of thing.

And, uh, studied it a lot of, you know, buying home courses and, and that kind of stuff for a couple of years, doing a lot of reading. And, uh, then finally decided I, I was gonna take a live, uh, session, which eventually led me to your course. Um, and I just, somewhere in that decision making process kind of decided that I was gonna try to do this thing as an actual.

You know, one day get out of law enforcement, which I’m still not quite there yet, but. But, uh, Yeah. Yeah. And I, we tend to bounce around inside of this. I’m curious to go back to those moments of being the instructor of nlp, specifically in that law enforcement environment where most of the people listening to this would be in the mindset of, Oh, here’s this pattern for a change.

Here’s this. Language pattern. Maybe in a sales environment though not many people would have the correlation to go, Well, how does that fit into law? Is there, is there a story or two that kind of stands out in terms of how these principles applied over there? Whether it’s interrogation, whether it’s a, um, challenging moment to say it politely.

Is there a story or two that stands out as to how this would be utilized? Well, it’s interesting that, uh, for the most part, uh, I think the value in interviewing, which the distinction between interviews and interrogations is interview is typically someone who wants to help the police, right? A victim, a witness, something of that sort.

Um, and then of course an interview could turn into an interrogation if someone’s leaving some information out. But oftentimes people will get stuck in their own. Uh, model of the world, right? They’ll, uh, a victim for instance of a, of an armed robbery will just focus on what the gun looked like. Mm-hmm. , um, that it was oversized or whatever, without actually even being able to give a description.

Um, and so we talk about changing their channel. Right. So like relating back to, so when you saw the gun, what sounds, did you hear around you? Yeah. Uh, what did the person say? You know, and kinda leading them down that, uh, to discover, of course, always asking open ended questions, which there’s a word that you used inside of that, which should’ve been part of our dialogue in the last couple of days.

That there’s very often in hypnosis, the dialogue of never lead, never lead. Yet in that solicitation of your. What you just said, become aware of the gun. What sounds, did you hear? You’re basically associating them into an experience and then beginning from there to elicit the submodalities to drive them further into the experience which is leading in an appropriate way, cuz as leading for them to recall the information as opposed to leading to create the memory.

Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. That, and that’s, that’s a great way of putting it. You are wanting to lead them, Oftentimes just chronology has a lot to do with an investigation. They may jump from the moment it started to the moment it ended, and we were trying to, to elicit information in between. So, um, that’s, that’s an interesting way of putting it.

So I wanna lead them down that chronology, but I don’t wanna lead them into confabulating things in between, or if they simply don’t know. I don’t want them to, to try to fill in the gap. Yeah. Which this forensic application of it is something that I’d very comfortably say is not my expertise, is not my focus of study and not really part of what I do though.

Um, I’ll generalize the story enough that there was a moment where I did work with a lawyer and a specific client to help recall the license plate number, and by doing that, Everything matched up. The mark on this car marched up, bashed up with that car. The evidence was inside and the way that it was explained to me, well, we never had to mention how the information was remembered.

Because for the person to say, Well, I remembered this, this was the license plate number. At that point, everything matched up to go. Yep, that’s the one who did it. So I’m kind of drawing some connections here and just hear your thoughts on it. I don’t know the specif legalities of forensic hypnosis, cuz again, that’s not my expertise.

I don’t position it to be that though. I can see some benefits that on the NLP side, you’re basically simply put asking the right questions. Drawing the focus in the appropriate ways. And it doesn’t have that hypnotic connotation attached to it, does it? No. Well, and it’s interesting because, uh, you know, there are, there are actual, uh, there, first of all, there’s case law out there mm-hmm.

that governs the use of forensic hypnosis. And of course there’s folks like Mark Howell, um, who’s very well known. Um, and in fact he’s really responsible for, uh, the state of Texas having a separate certification for forensic, uh, hypnotist who are also police officers. So there’s a time and a place for that.

Although it’s interesting that if you, it seems, if you don’t do a, an actual hypnotic in. And you do these things conversationally, then who can judge whether someone’s in trans or not. And, uh, but yet, you know, when we kind of talked earlier about how, uh, some of the definitions are about a good investigator or a good interviewer, uh, will, will assist the, the interviewee in maintaining a highly focused state.

It’s funny because that is hypnosis, you know, uh, whether eyes are open or eyes are closed. So, um, yeah, I mean, it’s a very fascinating subject, but I, I just, I think that the use of the word hypnosis oftentimes, Um, it becomes a problem in law enforcement too. Well, I mean, it’s where, as much as I’m a hypnotist, the training side of what I do is work smart hypnosis, my business and the brick and mortar of seeing clients is Virginia Hypnosis.

That’s very much a place where I stand by the term. I use it very heavily and I don’t hide from it, though even dating back to, uh, Dave Alman hip. Oh, just teach the patient that you’re teaching them how to medically relax or here’s that environment of a law enforcement of the interview, the interrogation.

What about, um, I’m just curious to hear this. So let’s phrase it this way cuz I, I’d love to see where this goes. Uh, more of a challenging moment, more of a difficult environment, sort of that on the scene, in the thick of it type experience, uh, what kind of principles would’ve fallen in. So responding to a call as it were, Gosh, you know, you kind of got me, uh, caught me off guard a little bit because, um, there are a couple things that, uh, that stick out in my mind, but I always get to that armed robbery situation.

There’s one, or it was more of a pattern interrupt than, uh, you just yell, sleep, and they collapsed at the floor, right? ? Yeah. . No. Um, gosh, I, you know, I can’t, I just can’t think of, of something that’s really unusual. Just, uh, well, let’s go off of that armed robbery example. What are some of the themes that would’ve been shared there?

Well, of course, hoping that no one listening to this has to deal with that scenario, though, just to hear the way that these same principles that our community would be attaching to change or persuasion, influence and all that in that moment where here’s this dangerous environment. Well, I actually, what I was referencing was a, a pattern interrupt that the, the interviewee did on me.

Mm. Um, it was just a, a shocking moment. Um, and that’s simply because, although as a police officer at that point in my career as a, as a patrol officer, Um, one of the things we try to stay away from is anything routine, right? But I did in fact have one routine, um, that I always went to the same convenience store at the beginning of my shift.

This particular day, I loaded up my gear into the car and ended up being dispatched on someone else’s call in a nearby beat, um, instead of going through my normal routine at which time, um, Shortly while, while I was en route to that call, shortly thereafter, a call was dispatched to that convenience store of an armed robbery occurring at that very moment.

Which of course then upset me because I had relationships with those, those cashier, those clerks in the store, and they, they always knew me. And, and so when I went to that call that I was dispatched on that I shouldn’t have, and then was turned around to go. Down to the armed robbery. I was probably the third officer on the scene.

Um, I actually saw an investigator there interviewing in the middle of the, the beginning part of that interview, trying to get, you know, exactly what happened, direction of travel that the people left, um, which of course is important in the immediacy of the moment, but then, . Um, when that cashier turned and looked at me, this was again, a, a bit of pattern interrupt for me.

Um, was the, the gist of it was, why weren’t you here? Mm-hmm. , um, sort of like I was expected to be there at that moment. Um, so, uh, in any event, With that person. Uh, I was kind of secondary in doing that interview that, in that investigator was kinda looking to me because I just had the relationship and also was familiar with, um, some of my background in, in the interviews interrogations.

Um, and the, the challenge there, uh, because of the relationship, it lessened the, that authority state, if that makes sense at all. Yeah. Um, so I don’t know if that, Yeah, which I’m looking at times as well inside of this. I want to eventually get over to what you’re doing now in terms of seeing clients and what’s working for you to get people in certain experiences you’ve been having.

So just to kind of unpack some strategies, we kind of talked about getting into a focused state, which our community will say that’s hypnosis, and then, um, you know, become aware of the gun and the sounds, the sub modality elicitation on, on the interrogation side. What are some of the strategies that, from our hypnotic community we’d start to recognize would be used there?

Uh, well it’s, it’s interesting in the, in the beginning, Uh, you know, we kinda have a rapport segment, even though I know that sounds counterintuitive for someone who’s under arrest sitting on the other side of, of the desk or the, the table as it were. Uh, and then a detective or a police officer, uh, who’s made the arrest perhaps, um, sitting there asking questions.

But, so we developed this rapport, might be over a Coke, and finding out what’s important to. That person in their life. And, um, the, you’ll see that the person tends to have a kinesic shift where they relax a bit. Mm-hmm. , they’ll start telling you what’s important to them. Um, and then, you know, I, I hate to say it this way, but we end up using that against them in the, you know, more confrontational questioning.

Um, and, and just as an example, if someone identifies a family member, maybe their mother, Uh, if they’re, um, affiliated with a church or something like that, maybe their, their pastor or something, they identify that relationship as being important to them. We see that sort of as a wall of, you know, as I’m talking to them, how am I gonna get them to admitting or fully
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Telling me what happened. Um, so if I look at that as a wall, um, that I can actually use that relationship, you know, as an example, I know that your mother will still love you even though she knows that, you know, you made this mistake. Um, something as simple as that, it kind. Seems counterintuitive cuz I’m, I’m, I’m hitting it head on.

Um, but, you know, I, I just kind of had a flash here. Um, even, even in, uh, some of the strategies on roadside for a traffic stop or asking for consent to search a vehicle. Um, we use some of these, these, uh, these strategies, which so much of it, again, you know, every technique, every principle, it’s all modeled after effective communication.

It’s all modeled after what did people naturally do and how do we replicate that though outside of it and all this left, of course, behind that trail of replicatable strategies. Though with everything, it comes back to report, comes back to that calibration. Uh, I want to take that story though of here you are in that interrogation and the theme of soft skills where something came from that.

And now fast forward the story there you are back in your office in a couple of days working with a client. How, how did that experience, how does that translate over to the work you’re doing now actually as that hypnotist. Well now it’s, it’s, uh, it’s actually made it a lot easier for me in terms of like calibration.

I, I really, um, that it’s almost, uh, second nature to me just because of the years in law enforcement. I, I picked things up without even having to directly look at them. Mm-hmm. , um, And so in that regard, I, I, now, I, I can, I can tell physiologically, um, like I, I really see body language. It, it’s, it seems like, you know, sometimes I feel like Superman cause of stuff that you taught.

Um, you know, I see the framework now, but have, but, but realize that I’ve been doing this all along a lot different ways. Um, And so, uh, in that regard, I, I think it, it gives me the right timing and a better understanding of what, uh, strategy or technique is going to work best for that particular client. So it, it really helps me with that, that client centered approach.

Mm-hmm. , Yeah, what I was, what I was unpacking from that story around. Let’s say it’s the interrogation they bring up the mother. Um, when I’m working with a client, the mindset’s often nothing is an accident. Everything is an asset. So they wouldn’t have brought up that story of the mother. They wouldn’t have made the reference to the child if it didn’t in some way connect with this.

I’m not never looking at anything as just being small. So it’s where anything you, anything you say can be used against you in a court of law. sounds familiar. So instead the, you know, this is the asset we can use later on this session. Whether it’s a slide of mouth pattern, because this used to be the issue, this is the reason why it’s not the issue, uh, anymore.

But I love that aspect of, uh, being able to calibrate, being able to read what’s going on. Is there a story of working with a client where, of course, generalizing it for obvious purposes? Is there a story of working with a client where some of these skills were going, Oh yeah, I know this. Well, it’s, it’s interesting.

I think I already shared, um, the story. My very first formal, Oh, they gotta hear this,

like just

call than a woman who told me initially that she just had anxiety issues. Um, we talked through it and, uh, and that, and it felt like a match for both of us. And so she came in and, uh, through the intake I found out that, uh, and, you know, I couldn’t get the

cigarette and I just need . I couldn’t get the easy one for the first. So, Oh, just nighttime snacking. Just knock that out. Everything else is fine. . Um, so I up with client who, uh, had of course a lot of baggage from her childhood, but that’s not what led her to, to my office. She, um, was in a 20 year bad relationship, abusive relationship, uh, with her husband.

Who, which that relationship ended when he forced her to watch him commit suicide. And, uh, so, you know, again, almost I’ve been through a lot of stuff and I just, that, that one’s a hard one too. Um, so. You know, just, um, I, I asked her somewhere in the intake kind of really as a sidebar though, to soften the moment.

Like, how did you find out about me? You know, what led you to come in here and, and actually found out that she was an acquaintance. I didn’t quite remember her, one of those deals where I sore to remember the name that I couldn’t quite place where from and in, in any event. Um, so she, There she is in the office, and, uh, and we’ve gone through this intake and, um, I actually used the, uh, fast year release that, that you taught.

Um, and a few other strategies of course with it. But, uh, after two years of. Not going anywhere other than home to work and work to home. Literally nowhere. Mm-hmm. in that two years and some days struggling just to go to work because she, she described it had anxiety issues and had actually, before this two years, had gone to several other people.

So, you know, she’s kind of stacking the deck against me, um, in some ways. But, uh, just the rapport that we built. And, and I, I really, I go back to that calibration. It just, it, it almost kind of just flowed naturally. Um, and, uh, she left that session that she had to have someone drive her to the session. But she walked out the door and apparently she reported to me later in the second session, um, told, uh, him to take her to the mall.

And she, so she went to the mall that, you know, right after that very first session, she drove herself to the second session. And, uh, I, I mean, I keep up with her even to this day and, and she’s doing extremely well. And, uh, uh, you know, building. Fans. Nice, nice, nice. So then many people listening to this have gone through trainings and are still kind of in that student mindset of what do I do with all of this?

How do I get started? So kind of walk us through, um, you trained with me, wrapped up that you came in with some knowledge already and kind of a self-study way. Similar actually to how I did it, where I had years of buying books, re watching videos and all that. Then connecting with an instructor. So what was that process for you from, from the formal education to then let’s do this, the startup side?

Well, um, honestly, before I even came to the first session, I was already mm-hmm. strategized and kind of seeing the action in my mind. So, uh, I. Just never could find one of your intensive courses. You know, I just didn’t ever line up. So I ended up doing the, the one that was broken up into three separate sections
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So probably between the second and the third, um, session of the training, I actually started going out looking for a space. It started, you know, in the whole legal process of, of creating a DBA under my existing, um, LLC and having things printed and so forth. Um, so. I mean, I, I really just, as soon as I got back, I was in the process of, uh, signing the lease and, and all of that.

Um, my website, um, you know, I, I think I was even talking to you, showing you logos and stuff, my final section and you were kind of giving me some feedback. So, um, So I did all of that. And then, uh, you know, I, I’ve, we, we talked a lot about workshopping, different strategies and, um, so, you know, I’ve, I’ve.

Hired someone, which I’m somewhat regretful about. Um, hired someone to improve my SEO rating so I could get in that magical Google three pack. Mm-hmm. . Um, I’m there, but, uh, I think I paid way too much money for that service. Likely names, but, but there are some other services that I’ve mentioned to you that.

I’ve, uh, spent money on that. I’m not satisfied. Well, that’s, that’s part of the experiment of, again, the, you. The unfortunate longer metaphor is Thomas Edison in this lab with the light bulb not working and celebrating what it didn’t work. But then again, the discovery of what doesn’t work is the discovery of what does work.

So then on that note, in terms of, uh, let, let’s go back to just the moment before, uh, making that decision on an office space. What was kind of your criteria for, for the, If you build it, they will come moment. Right. Well, and you know, uh, I think I’ve heard someone else on your podcast, you, you guys talking about similar things and I’ve seen stuff in some of our, uh, shared Facebook communities out there, people talking about things.

But from my perspective, I wanted. I didn’t want to be like on a, in a strip mall where there’s like a subway and then there’s a hypnotist . I wanted to be eat fresh change now . So I wanted to be in a professional building. Um, and uh, where I’m at in Savannah, Georgia, um, there are, there are three hospitals and a lot of medical buildings, you know, in between those three hospitals.

So I wanted to be in that area so that I. To be able to draw the medical community and, and, and build relationships with, with the medical community for referral purposes. Um, and so, uh, you know, I wanted to be centrally located and fairly convenient for folks who might be traveling from out of town, which I, I do get quite a few folks that driving distance, but mm-hmm.

were you looking, so you’re looking at having your own space rather than something shared. Yes. Um, I, I was pretty fortunate to find a, a really nice office space on a ground floor. Uh, cause I didn’t want, you know, I worked with some older folks and I didn’t want to have to climb stairs and things, or there was a medical issue that would, that no elevator in this building.

It’s been, been around a long time, but it’s only two stories. Um, but, uh, again, I wanted it to be in a professional space. Um, But, uh, this is, I mean, it, it’s, it’s really one room, but it’s in a suite, so I have access to restrooms and a kitchen area and, you know, um, so there’s a couple other folks in that suite, but I don’t ever see any that door.

No. I’m laughing on the inside right now because, uh, Northern Virginia, Um, back about four and a half, five years ago was when my wife and I were, you know, our son was on the way. We’re going, Oh, let’s move to a bigger place. And we had to stop watching the house hunters shows, uh, because the cost of living.

And you’d hear the couple go, Well, we’re looking for a five bedroom home and about maybe three or four acres, and our budget’s about $160,000. And we turn it off because they were in Georgia. Yeah, . Cause Northern Virginia, that’s um, they’ll get a closet apparently. Uh, so was it, what was the in, So let me ask you this, cuz.

The idea of the startup. There are some people, which I was on the same side of you when I first started of the, I’m gonna get my own space because this is what I wanted to be. Um, at the time I was full-time stage hypnotist. So as I was then opening up what then eventually became Virginia Hypnosis, it didn’t fit to be in a temporary space cuz I couldn’t guarantee the same hours every week.

So that was my intention to go, It’s gotta be my own space. I can’t play along with others. Uh, what was kind of your thinking in terms of jumping in and doing that kind of leap? Well, I, for me, I mean I, you know, I do record all of my sessions. Um,

protection and the protection client, you know, all that’s on my forms and stuff. So it, it, it was something where I, cuz I actually looked at like, uh, some of. Places where you, you get access for a few hours. Like the executive office suite type thing, right? Yeah, yeah. Which, when a space was under construction that I was in before I moved to one for like two months, it was nice, but then back to my hub, right.

Yeah. I mean, I, I think it could work. Mm-hmm. in a pinch, but I mean, the chairs aren’t all that comfortable, you know, I, um, the noise may or may not be an issue, just depending on what else is going on around. So I, I took those things into consideration and, uh, actually to be honest, there’s a, a place closer to my home that I would like to, to be at.

But those spaces are much larger and much more expensive. Um, closer to the airport, closer to the interstate, there would be a lot of pluses to being in that area. Um, but you know, once again, just kind of weighing your options. Mm-hmm. , Um, for me it was something that I could, it was my, it’s mine. Yeah. My stuff, you know, my, my li I mean, I don’t own it, but I lease it.

Well, there’s also something to be said around, I mean, I, I’ve probably told this here before, where. I got my start in even stage hypnosis by with fundraisers, and I had two options. Option number one, you buy the show and whatever you sell you get to keep or ticket split option. We split the proceeds. The only, only of those two that would turn out to be an amazing event.

Classically, when there were exceptions, of course, was the one that just bought the show. Cuz they’re starting off by going, Okay, we have to sell this many tickets, otherwise we’ve lost. The other one’s coming in and going, It’d be nice if we earned some money. So I’ve often found it’s not the right advice for everybody as the disclaimer yet.

You were clearly on the side that I was, which is the, No, I’m gonna make this work. Right. Well, and you know, I, for me, I had, I just happened to have the right mix of other things going on and still have, uh, other things going on so that if I have. That isn’t quite, There’s, there’s, there are other things.

Mm-hmm. . So I have multiple streams of income. Um, so that, you know, it works for me. It, it might not be for everybody. And I, I’ve talked to several hypnotists who’ve, you know, gone the route of operating an office in their home. That, that just, that model just doesn’t work for me. Yeah. Which it works for others, just didn’t for you.

So then day to day activity, then, what’s working for you now in terms of bringing people. Well, I mean, honestly, um, most of it is, is just word of mouth. Mm-hmm. . Um, it’s small. It’s still, you know, I don’t, I don’t have a full calendar, um, all the time, but, uh, Facebook is working for me. What specifically on Facebook?

Mostly just me putting stuff on Facebook. Yeah. Not Facebook ads, but me putting things on Facebook and. So it’s, it’s almost like word of mouth. Mm-hmm. via Facebook. Um, I haven’t, uh, I have not spent the money on Facebook ads. I spent money on other places I’m noted with. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I mean, that’s really it.

Um, you know, I, I have taken some downtime, if you’d like to call it that. I, I don’t really have downtime, but , I made some. To, uh, just walk around and, and go see those medical professionals and, and others in, in my building and neighboring buildings, um, and, you know, provide them a special offer, you know, that sort of thing.

Um, I’ve had some takers, not a lot. Mm-hmm. , uh, . But once again, you know, it’s, I have multiple projects going on too, so it’s not like I’m really looking to have a full schedule right now. Is that, if that makes, Yeah. Yeah. Though, I’d imagine and not necessarily happen to get in the details of the other projects.

It’s where again, so often people will take a hypnosis training, people will take an NLP training, and not everybody has the goal of sitting down and doing that work. Um, not everybody has the goal of working to the full capacity schedule, which is possible. I keep. Cracking the joke around the timeframe of my life, which was titled bc, which is not like 5,000 bc No, BC for me is before children where , where I was doing days and my Michelle was working at the time, uh, a job up in DC and the commuting back and forth.

It’s, Well, you’re not gonna be home till eight o’clock. I’ll work from 10 to eight every day, or nine to eight every day. Right. Um, where there’s some people said about finding the capacity that you want. So at this stage in it, is there a certain. Certain category, a certain issue that you found that you work really well with?

A certain thing that you like working with best? Well, I mean, I, you know, I, of course I see a lot of stop smoking, uh, weight loss fights. But my favorite, and it probably goes back to that first client. Um, I just really enjoy, uh, working with people who, uh, you know, what, whether they call it anxiety or they’ve been clinically, you know, that medically, uh, diagnosed with that, I don’t know, Um, some of them.

Yes. And some of them no. Um, but of course, uh, I’ve not run into a doctor yet who said, No, you don’t go see the hypnotist. Yeah. Um, and I’ve been very, very successful. Um, I mean, I, I, I think I shared with you, you know, I had someone come in for stop smoking, and while we’re talking about that, she shares with me that she’s on, you know, all these medications for anxiety and she has some other medical issues and whatnot.

And of course she got the doctor’s release and she’s actually, um, gonna be booking with me soon for, uh, weight loss as well. But she shared with me just through the stop smoking process that the anxiety that she had previously experienced had gone down. She’d mentioned having gone to a concert in Jacksonville, which she lives in a rather small town.

And, uh, Outside of Savannah and Jacksonville is, is kind of a bigger city and uh, she just described how it would always stress her out. She’d have to take extra for medication and that sort of thing. She said she went to the concert and didn’t take any medication. Mm-hmm. and had no problems. Um, and she didn’t even share with me in that, in that session before the trip that she was going to do

I found out, played it on, but I really enjoy working with anxiety. Um, I, I think I’ve shared, I’ve talked to and sort of this conversational, um, Hypnosis, but problem solving, maybe just helping people, um, develop strategies for whether, again, whether or not they’ve been diagnosed with it or, or they, they label it themselves.

Um, I try to get them out of that labeling, uh, of themselves in that post traumatic stress. Mm-hmm. , because of my, uh, my work in law enforcement and because of. Uh, time, you know, overseas in Iraq and stuff. I can relate to what they’re talking about and, uh, and whether I’m talking about from my personal experience or things that I’ve learned, Are, are able to, to help talk them through things.

So, um, again, sometimes that it’s more effective for those folks if we just don’t talk about hypnosis, you know, they’re just more willing to say, Yeah, I’d like to talk to you, even though I’m using some of those same strategies. Mm-hmm. . Well, it’s where I, I flash to something I think I heard Melissa tears say years ago, which was that, um, as much as we’re there to do the work, sometimes you’re the first person they’re telling something.

And that alone of that moment of like back to the , not the best connection I’m making here, but back to the interrogation of gathering that information and being in that open calibrative state, which is again, is the, get the scripts out of the process, listen to the person, engage in what’s there. There there’s two highlights I wanted to elaborate upon of what you had shared within that.

Uh, the first one being. You know, you’re mentioning Yes, going through the appropriate, uh, hoops in terms of making sure there’s, if they’re seeing a doctor, that that’s all covered. I love that you highlighted there, that you know, you’ve never had one that said no in my career of sending out that, uh, release form if they’re on the, um, cocktail of medications and various diagnoses.

I’ve only ever had one that actually didn’t wanna sign it. Um, and to be fair, it’s a reason why I can back up. As he puts it. Well, we have this person on our staff here who also does hypnosis. You should see her and keep it in this office where we already have your records, , which I can, I can side into that because well keep it within the offices and that way there’s a collaborative team.

Meanwhile, this was actually a person who attended a one day workshop that I taught . Oh, really? That was her hypnosis training. As they then marched back to the doctor’s office, the head of this uh, facility locally and going. Yeah, I only took a one day. You should let her cite, see Jason Lynette and the client’s now going, that’s who I wanted to see

So it’s where there’s a lot more open nature inside of it. Um, and your mention of the, Oh, she didn’t mention she was going to this concert and she’s doing so much better. Made me flash to the experience of the person going. Yeah, I just, uh, my mind is active in falling asleep at night. I think I just need to quiet my mind so I can sleep better.

We dealt with that extremely direct, a whole lot of utilization, a whole lot of anchoring the environment. And session two, that was great. No, by the way, my night terrors were. Say what? , that might have been helpful information. Yeah. Uh, so in, in terms of moving things forward, uh, what is it that you’re finding there’s an interest in doing more of it?

What is it there’s an interest of bringing this message cuz your, your journey into this was that indirect nature of. Learning. Here’s how we’re already doing this on this law enforcement side. Then going back to some of the origins of it to go, let’s now use this for this, uh, helping side. Uh, where, where do you see this all moving forward?

What’s the audience? What’s the direction you want to go? Well, um, can I talk about the one project that I told you? Yeah. Starting you like, um, so one of the things, uh, a friend of of mine and I a c. Uh, of over 20 years, and I are starting up as, uh, the Police Academy podcast. And the goal with that, um, is for us, you know, there’s, there’s other podcasts and other things out there that, that, that talk about, you know, all the stuff going on, the news and all that.

We’re, we’re not gonna be spending time on that instead for us. , we’re gonna be focusing on the, the education training and even the, uh, sort of unofficial training that’s out there that any professional should be doing on their own, you know, reading articles and, and that sort of stuff. And, and of course, being a source of that.

Ourselves. Um, but I guess my part in this is to kind of paraphrase Mike Mandel. I, I think he talked one time, uh, it might have been on one of his podcast, about realizing at some point when he made a transition from his stage hypnosis that he was more of a communicator. Right. And so, um, so that’s kind of the direction that I want to go or I want to, you know, I, I do some consulting, but it’s, but it’s kind of been niche specific in law enforcement and security companies.

I’d like to continue that, maybe open that up in a larger realm of business. I want to, uh, give back to the law enforcement community and, uh, and I, I kind of fancy myself as the unconscious coach in that regard. You know, particularly, uh, training that we do, um, in use of force and things like that. There’s a physical training, um, but more often than not, where a lot of instructors out there may be missing.

The, the mental connection and the, and, and so I actually hope to be able to help trainers to better those skills so that they can then deliver that training on, And that’s kind of what the focus of the Law Enforcement Academy podcast will be. Outstanding. Uh, love the success that you’ve been having and the, uh, results you’ve been sharing with your clients.

Uh, where can people find out about your. Well, uh, right now they can look me up on www savannah hypnosis com or hypnosis Savannah, whichever one would like I bought. Business is Hypnosis of Savannah, Savannah, Georgia, Also. Upcoming, not quite launch yet, but that, uh, law enforcement academy org. Either one of those.

Outstanding. It’s great having you on here. Keep it all up.

Hey there, it’s Jason Lynette, and once again, as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program. Thank you so much for leav. Feedback, your positive reviews over on iTunes, as well as every other podcast platform that’s out there. We’re everywhere. And I’d encourage you once again to head over to work smart hypnosis.com or more specifically to the two upcoming live training events.

Work Smart hypnosis live.com, as well as Work smart nlp. Dot com. So whether your goal is to improve your skills in terms of your hypnosis practices, or to become much more influential, as well as persuasive, that’s what the NLP training is all about. These courses are heavy with hands on, interact. To have practice that is monitored.

So you’re getting that feedback as to what you’re doing well, as well as what you can improve upon. And a bit of a fun fact. My classes often end up working out being a nice even balance of half The room is brand new to all of this stuff and the other half are well folks like you out there that perhaps have already been trained in some of this stuff, yet the confidence, the results are not yet there.

There’s some gaps in your training and they’re coming to me to help to fill that in Work Smart Hypnosis live dot. Or work smart nlp.com. Dates and registration details are all online. See you there. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.