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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 142, Howard Cooper on Rapid change. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss.
No, this isn’t the classic movie, Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. This is the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast, and I’m Jason Lynette, and as is often the theme here, this is a conversation I’ve been wanting to have and wanting to share with you for quite some time. I first interacted with Howard Cooper about a couple of months, if not a year ago, when he actually featured me on his hypnosis podcast, The Rapid Change Matters podcast, which if you haven’t yet listened to it, definitely look it up, subscribe to it today.
It’s available on iTunes, Stitcher, all the various podcasting mediums, or just simply go to Rapid change.works, and that’s the website you can actually learn all about Howard’s program. Howard shares a philosophy, shares a passion in this conversation to the concepts of exactly what we’re calling this session, rapid change in the same name of his podcast.
It all comes from that philosophy and let’s call it out, That reality, that change occurs quickly, That if you look at major life changes that people often occur, it happens in an instant or even to look at the aspect of how someone gets into that problem state. These are the classic tenets behind a fast phobia cure, a fast fear release NLP strategy that it only take a moment.
It only takes a moment to first learn that issue. And if your mind is so strong, it could learn something that quickly. Well, it can learn something else just as quickly as well. So there does not have to be a correlation behind how long something has been an issue. And how quickly it can actually be resolved.
So to live and breathe and really to create that environment where that rapid change absolutely is possible. This is gonna be one of the biggest takeaways I hope you pull from this conversation with Howard, which honestly is gonna go to some rather personal places, some of his backstory, some of what motivated his own personal changes, and then creating this passion towards learning more.
Going off on this, uh, epic journey of getting as much training and as much education as possible. And clearly now not just being a well known name, but clearly a voice in this profession that you ought to be listening to, which I’ll, I’ll share the platform here to tell you to subscribe to his program, Rapid Change Matters podcast, get all the details [email protected], and stick around through the end of this recording because it’s where it will actually have a conversation where I ask him and clearly not just fishing for compliments and asking him to praise the one that I was on.
No, not at all. Listen to it. We’ll lick into the show notes of this program, but asking for him in terms of what are some of the, uh, recordings, what are some of the conversations that he has had that you as that audience listener absolutely need to hear as well. So you’re gonna hear a passion for change.
You’re gonna hear a passion for sharing this information and spreading that good gospel, that rapid change. Well, it really does matter. Hey, look at that. See what we did there. Uh, I’d also encourage you inside of this to look at some of the strategies that you’re doing and really consider what it is that you can bring to this process to let it now take a much stronger shape what it is you can do to really take this change process from good to great.
And he does an amazing job of, again, sharing some rather personal anecdotes. And even so, there’s an incredible story you’re gonna hear here. That’s a phrase right here, here, this incredible anecdote you’re gonna hear where from the background of actually getting the opportunity to do this type of work on television, you gotta hear this story.
He achieved this incredible, almost miraculous change, and yet the producers of this program simply felt it was not believable enough. Therefore, we can’t put it on the. When clearly dude got the result and yet it was censored. This is directly in line with that philosophy that I share inside of my online training program, Hypnotic Workers.
This mindset of bringing the kinesthetics into the process, bringing the hypnotic phenomenon into the experience, so the client is validating the entire way through that something is happening and you’re getting that instant gratification that things are now different than the way they were before. To learn more about that specific program, simply head over to hypnotic workers.com.
It’s the all access pass to my Hypnosis training library. And you can jump in today for as little as $47, but today’s about Howard. Let’s jump directly into this conversation. Who’s counting, but this is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 142, Howard Cooper, on a rapid change.
Um, I, if I’m honest, Jason, I, I was freaked out by hypnosis to begin with, um, because I, I thought of it as this weird and wonderful thing where you would totally lose control and I didn’t want someone to be able to control my mind. That seemed a little bit too, uh, unnerving. Um, but on the other side of my character, I think I’ve always been fascinated with ba bizarre enough, the word and wonderful.
So I remember being, if I’m pinpointing the moment, I remember very vividly being six years old, a kid’s party and at the end of the day, they give out a lucky bag. I dunno if they do that in America. Yeah, like a party bag with, with stuff in. And this guy, the entertainer, uh, took and reached into one of the bags and said, Let me show you what we’re gonna leave you with.
And he reached in and he pulled out a little rubber ball. It was just a bouncy ball. And he said, Look, it’s a magic bouncy ball, and you can take it in one hand and it will jump to the other. And as a six year old, I remember going, Oh, my word, magic is real. Mm-hmm. . I just, I’ve never seen anything quite like that.
And I went home very disappointed because I kept, as much as I held it in my hand, this bouncy ball did not jump to the other hand. Yeah. And I thought I must have the DU one . Right. And I remember sitting there as a six year old getting really frustrated and, but I remember the feeling of wanting magic to be real.
Mm-hmm. and I became a magician. Um, and I used to work in restaurants and doing closer magic. Um, and for me, I found magic very slightly disappointing. Mm-hmm. in that there was always a trick behind it. And I started, uh, having gone through a period of my life where I’d had some difficulties and, uh, ended up with seeing a psychotherapist for three and a half years.
Week in, week out, discovering other alternatives of maybe more solution focus approaches of NLP and hypnosis and things. But even the hypnosis stuff freaked me out cause I didn’t really understand it and I thought, well, you know, it’s, it’s, again, it’s about loss of control, but the little part of me that went, I want magic to be real one.
Mm-hmm. and it bore out and I became just fascinated in it. Um. I mean, it started off being fascinated by seeing stage, uh, hypnotist and seeing people like Paul McKenna perform and thinking, Is that for real? Really? And it just, you know, coupled with the performer in me, uh, from the magic years, you know, I think that’s what kind of, uh, lit me up.
And it just seems to be the most amazing field that it fulfills all that criteria that I have that makes me go, Wow, magic really is real. Yeah. Which, which, your story there. Now that we have the background of the magic, I have to, uh, bring up one specific trick that, um, was kind of popular at one point.
Probably I think about, oh, I’d say about 15, 20 years ago, which I always would see this. And it was, again, it was popular for a brief while it was being sold. It was a prop you could buy. Um, yet it was always massively disappointing. It was called the bounce, snow Bounce. And one of the possible presentations was you had this little rubber ball and you explained that this is a special ball that can only bounce a hundred times.
I’ve already bounced it. 97 and see, look, bounce. That’s 98. Bounce. That’s 99. Bounce. That’s a hundred here. You try it and then they throw it at the table and it just stops at a cold thud. Um, mm-hmm. , which might be impressive, but we run into stuff that doesn’t work all the time in our life, and that’s not enjoyable,
So yeah. That theme of, you know, wanting it to be real, what would you say it was within the hypnosis that presented that difference for you? Well, I, I began to see certain changes in myself, so I, I. , um, passion with change work. And really how I discovered the hypnosis theme was, uh, as I said, I’d had, uh, I was diagnosed at 17 with severe panic attacks and anxiety, uh, disorder, and they, they doctors like to throw out the word disorder to make it even more serious.
And, um, they sent me to a psycho, a psychiatrist first, who put me in antidepressants, which I thought was kind of silly because I didn’t feel depressed. I was just fed up with feeling anxious and having panic attacks. And, uh, they sent me to this psychotherapist in three and a half years. I had psychotherapy week in, week out, and.
For me, it was after I had an sort of a final session with this, uh, very well intentioned lady, um, who ended up presenting her reasons as to why she thought I was like that, as the big kind of moment of, Oh, well now, you know, and therefore you, you know, you’re okay now because, you know, and the reality was I still had panic attacks and anxiety.
Um, I just knew now her theory as to why, and I don’t even agree looking back, uh, as to, you know, her theory. But for me, when I started to get into hypnosis and NLP and those sorts of things, the change to myself was so dramatic and so quick and felt like magic. That I just couldn’t ignore it. And it also lit a fire inside of me going, Well, why should people be having three and a half years of stuff when there may be some things that could work quicker for them?
Um, but yeah, I mean, I remember I had a, around the time I was doing all the training, I had a wat on my finger and I couldn’t get rid of it. I tried to burn this thing off like five times with the chemicals and it just kept, you know, it wouldn’t, wouldn’t stay off. And um, I, I, I listened. It wasn’t even a demo that was done on me, it was a demo that I witnessed on someone else about healing.
And it wasn’t even to do with healing war, it was just general healing, hypnosis. And I thought, wouldn’t it be cool? And I remember looking at the war on my finger thinking, wouldn’t it be cool if it worked on that too? And the next morning I woke up and it was gone and it’s never come back. And you know, that little six year old inside of me goes, Wow, magic’s cool.
I love it. I love it. So then you had that experience of, um, and dare. Uh, sort of foreshadow where we’re eventually gonna go with this. You had that rapid change, see if they did there and, uh, what was the, uh, which part of the audience is going, Wait, what, But we’ll, we’ll get there. Uh, what was it from that experience that then led to the next step?
Where, where did the sort of education of it, uh, start to creep in? Or what was that next phase for you? For me, it was the, the segue of, I mean, I actually ended up on an, uh, it was a, a Tony Robbins course. It was unleashed, the power within, um, which, you know, I think a lot of people have done. And I’d gone from this transition of working with a psychotherapist who basically told me that if I understood why it was, then it would go away, which wasn’t true.
And also she gave me a book, and this book was called Living With It. And it was, uh, and even the title, now I look back and I think that’s just, it just sucks, you know, living with it. What about overcoming it or like getting rid of it? Um, but it basically was just a cartoon book about how I would have to deal with the fact that I had a monster that, that chased around with me.
And this monster was depicted as something outside of me. I was just a victim to this thing. And, you know, I went on the Anthony Robbins course, unleashed the Power, and suddenly there was someone who was incredibly, had great presence, great charisma, but he kind of spoke to me as though, huh, I have some control over this.
And that was just incredibly refreshing. And I signed up to his, uh, I can’t remember it, Lets think it was Mastery University in a heat of the moment. And then someone said, Why are you doing that? Why don’t you go and learn how to do what he does? And I went, Sorry, could I do that? What is that? Like? I didn’t even know that this thing like you can do.
And they said, Yeah, it’s this thing called nlp. And I then went and enrolled on, um, my first NLP course, uh, diploma course actually. Um, and then got thrown off it cuz I asked the difficult question and the train didn’t like me. . Um, I gotta ask, do you remember, do you, we can leave out respectfully or politely, uh, who it was, but do you remember what the question was?
Yeah, well, I’d read, I’d read Frogs into Prince, um, by Richard Banner and John Gr. And I, I, I thought, well, I’ll, I’ll read this book and it’s fascinating stuff, and then I’ll go on this diploma course and I’ll kind of, you know, have a, an insight. And we, we were doing, I accessing queues on day one or two and they said, um, you know, when people look up, it tends to be an indication that they’re making mental images.
And when they look to the side in that way, then, you know, maybe their internal dialogue and so on. And when it’s down to the right, they’re doing fit. And they s spell all this out and said, We’re now gonna break you up into groups, uh, and you can ask each other questions. Like, what color is your front door at home?
And you’ll watch the response. So you, you’ll see that, you know, that’s how it works. And I put my hand up cuz I had a question that had been prompted from this book, which was, I said, Hang on a second, you’ve just told us what our eyes are supposed to do. does the, uh, our conscious awareness of what their eyes are supposed to do now inhibit the unconscious nature of the response.
Yeah. . But it was kind of like a, I I wasn’t trying to be difficult. I thought it was, uh, an a a fairly honest and straightforward question. It was a genuine, uh, interest, uh, question that I had, I was interested in. Um, and uh, the lady said, uh, can you leave? Please? Can you get up? Wow. And I, I, I, maybe this was where I went wrong cause I burst out laughing cuz I suddenly felt like I’d been reduced back to being like a 10 year old at school.
And I started laughing and she, she got upset. I mean, it’s a legitimate question. There’s a, there’s a game sometimes of. Well, I mean to bring it back to some of our shared history here, cause I had a background in magic too, that in my opinion, this is the real reason why the magician doesn’t repeat the trick.
It’s not because you might figure it out the second time. It’s that now you know where to be looking. You now know what the result is supposed to be. So if it’s the big. You know, escape illusion where the guy is tied up in chains and throw it in the box and suddenly the back the box explodes and he’s in the back of the audience blowing a whistle.
You know? So it’s like in magic that, you know, this is the reason why, in my opinion, that the magician doesn’t repeat the trick. It’s not that you might figure it out the second time. It’s that you know where to look now for the end of the trick. You know, if it’s the big illusion where suddenly the magician disappears on stage, and now he’s blowing a whistle in the back of the audience, you
Mm-hmm. , when the routine starts the next time you’re just gonna turn around and stare at the back of the audience and wait. So, yeah, I mean, and especially if it’s ever the practice session of the I accessing cues, they’re either somehow consciously influencing it, or even worse, trying to build that laser focused stare and not let their eyes move.
Exactly. So it’s where the demo, the demo has to be a little bit more organic to actually be legitimate. And again, this is just one element of a much bigger system, but really that was the first reaction to, to kick you out for that simple question. Well, not only that, um, but uh, you know, this was like a weekend course.
This was like an introduction and you get the diploma after two weekends. And, uh, I did it with a friend of mine and we went, and two months later he got his certificate in the post and I did not get mine. And I rang them and said like, I think, I think the post might have eaten my certificate up. And they said, Oh, let me just check your name please.
Moment was Howard Cooper. And they went, Oh yeah. Uh, I’m afraid we, we felt that you did not fulfill the, the requirements. The necessary requirements to achieve your diploma. So I did. I didn’t get my diploma, um, from the two weekends. So I thought, well, okay, that kind of sucks. Um, let’s go and train with, uh, uh, and I went and trained did, um, with Rich Bangler.
Cause I thought, we’ll track down the people that I’d created the field. Let’s go to the source and let’s do that. Um, so for me, that was my kind of intro into, into the NLP world, uh, which was. Yeah. I mean, it was a, a fairly strange experience being thrown out of an NLP diploma and not getting, uh, my certificate.
Yeah. Although it’s a nice , slightly controversial statement. It’s a, it’s a nice nudge sometimes to that in some way you don’t fit in and you think about it differently. And that’s a lot of what I’m sure is driving a lot of the passion behind what you’re doing these days. A hundred percent. Yeah. To not just read something and go, Nope, this says no.
The first time I learned, I accessing, um, I was told the easy monic to remember is if they’re looking to the right, they’re remembering if they’re looking to the left, they’re lying. And I’m, and I heard that and went, um, no . Yeah. Perhaps not. And I still hear these myths being perpetuated. You know, I see them appear in the paper every so often.
As you know, NLP is, is proven as a pseudoscience because, you know, someone told a lie and didn’t move their eyes up there. Mm-hmm. what I mean. Although it is, it is consistent that you cannot do a fast phobia cure with somebody with a fear of doubled dissociation. That’s true. Or, or it’s hard to cure someone who’s afraid of being cured.
And if you got that joke, then you are a nerd. Enjoy it. . So you did the, you did the training with Bandler and then what was the next, uh, what was the next phase from there for you? Well, so I went, I went through all of the, I mean, I kind of became a course junkie. Yeah. Uh, which I think a lot of people do, ranging from the hypnotherapy to the NLP master practitioner, to the trainers trainer, to things like design, human engineering to thought field therapy.
And I just became a collector of as many tools from my oversized tool bag as I could so that I just figured whoever’s sitting in front of me and I started working, I was working with people by this stage, whoever’s sitting in front of me. I wanna make sure that whatever they present, I have something that’s gonna work.
I have more of a chance, cuz if I have, you know, a bunch of stuff in there rather than a one size fits all approach, I, I’ve gotta be able to, to manage that and, That there, then I think there was a, a, a strange phase where you almost, I almost had too many things. Mm-hmm. , you know, um, and I, I think there’s a, a problem sometimes where people can go on so many courses where then end up with so much information that they have all these techniques and then someone comes and sits in front of them and says, I have this problem.
And they go, Oh, okay, well now, cuz they almost had too much, Right? Without actually having, uh, an idea of okay, rather than reducing the therapeutic interaction to, you know, bolt on pieces, protocols that I’ve picked up here and there, there isn’t really any thought I find sometimes that happens for a while or until you’ve been doing it for a while that says, okay, when they walk in, what’s the first thing I’m gonna say to them?
And how do I move them through this, you know, uh, process and have it flow without feeling like I’m kind of doing painting by numbers. From all of these different techniques. Yeah. And that, that is a common concern. And especially where the student doesn’t quite integrate what they’ve learned. They’ve gone through this training and for the next, uh, even better, that they’re actually out there seeing clients and working with people and yes, getting results, but for the next two months they now become sort of the clone, the, uh, the replicate of that specific style.
But then they take the next training and for the next two months, now they’re doing another style before really solidifying. So this, this is a problem. What would you say is the solution to that? Um, I think it’s to question, uh, everything nice. Um, and to not take everything that people say. If you go on a course, don’t just take it as red, Absolutely question it, but pay attention to what they do rather than what they say they do.
Mm-hmm. And I really find, you know, I, I’ve learned so much from watching what people actually do. Rather than, you know, what they say that they’re doing. And it’s often quite different. Um, and the other thing is, look for the similarities. If you’re doing lots of different courses, look for the similar themes and the similar patterns that people are doing that are overarching all of the things.
Um, and then you can pick out the stuff and go, Hang on a second. They’re, Yeah, that person’s doing that, that person’s doing that. In theory, on the face of it, they’re totally different. But hang on a second. If I stand back and really look, maybe they’re all doing the same thing. And if you begin to thread what the, the common denominators are, , then you can begin to play around with those common denominators, but make them your own.
Which brings about a question here, and I’m slightly editing myself on this because I think if I named a specific, uh, couple of people who I have in mind for this, I actually fear they might be offended by this. Um, but there’s sometimes, and it’s something that you just hit on that. Here’s a hypnotist.
Here’s someone really in any profession, and they would teach what they’re doing. They would teach techniques. Um, but really it’s what they’re creating around the technique. And the technique is supporting it. Does that make sense? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Where we’d have this experience where to be so bold, here’s somebody who’s teaching, Okay, here’s the way that I run this specific induction.
Here’s the way that I do my, you know, variation of this classic change strategy. Yet it’s more so the environment of change that that person has created. It’s more so the attitude that they’re bringing to it. Mm-hmm. , and it’s not necessarily the technique. Yes, the technique is affect a hundred. Yes, the technique is doing it, but sometimes as that instructor, we’re not quite aware of why we’re getting the result We think we know from the conscious perspective
Yet within that unconscious processing, it’s that bigger picture that’s really. Creating that moment that by the time you’ve run the technique, the issue is already in motion. The change is already in motion. A absolutely, And I love, and I love what you just said by the way, because for me, the way I work is I’m all about dealing with the change and setting it in action.
Well, before we do anything that’s kind of formal, and I have to ask from the, uh, sort of, uh, uh, the course junket that you went on, which I did a similar thing in my early years, is there a specific story that kind of stands out where maybe here was someone you can feel free to generalize or get specific as you wish.
Mm-hmm. a story of where someone was teaching something, but really you were noticing more details inside of it and that really set it apart for you? Um, yeah. I mean, I, I remember going, um, and doing some training and with, uh, actually a stage. . And I thought this was interesting because, um, a lot of my background had been Eric Sonian approach, uh, hypnosis.
And I thought, I wanna get something a little bit different. And it was funny because I didn’t agree conceptually or intellectually with a lot of the stuff that they were saying around why it works and what it does. But I couldn’t deny. But when you watch someone, uh, do an induction who you know totally and utterly believes and is totally congruent that that person who they’re izing is about to go into the deepest trans they’ve ever been in, in their whole life, then it carries and there was a way of interacting and looking at that person as though he totally believed it.
And so, regardless of how you dress it up, I start thinking to myself, Well, hang on a second. Look at the intention. And how powerful is that? And he wasn’t teaching that. He wasn’t talking about that. You know, he had other reasons as to why and so on. Um, and someone said, Do you, I mean, they said to him, Do you worry that they won’t go into trance?
And he kind of laughed and went, I’ve hypnotized over 77,000 people in my life. Why would the next one be any different ? And I just thought how, what a cool attitude to look at someone and have that in your mind. I love that. I love that. And especially, I mean, it, it’s a mindset that I think you and I have talked about before or outside of this program of completely negating the mindset of the resistant.
Of just have that expectation. They’re coming in because they’re ready. They’re come, Yes, there’s resistance to change, otherwise they wouldn’t be in your office. They would’ve solved this thing themselves years ago, months ago. Yet to, to go into this thought of, Oh wait, this one’s an engineer. I have to work differently.
This one’s a, uh, a counselor. I have to work with them differently. Um, you know, instead to see them as they are and just have that full expectation that that change is possible and is absolutely gonna happen a a hundred percent. But I, I’ve also joked with that, with, uh, other hypnotists, uh, and said, I know for sure, I mean with absolutely certainty.
Uh, and how’s this revolves statement that in every single session, any hypnotherapist does, I know trance is gonna occur a hundred percent. The only thing I’m saying though is I’m not sure which way around it is. It’s either the client that goes into, into a trance where they believe change is possible, or the hypnotherapist goes into a trance.
Induced by the client to believe that the client’s really screwed and can’t be helped . But I know chance is happening. Yeah. I just, you know, I think it’s important for the hypnotist to make sure they’re on the right side of it. I love that. I love that. So, I, I have to ask, other than the magic, was there a, was there a different course?
Was there a different direction that life could have gone for you? Was there something else that at one point you were possibly exploring? Well, if I’m, if I’m honest, I, I think I might have become an ACT actor. Um, no, actually in, in, in fairness, um, I, I have a performed, there’s a performer in me, uh, for sure within the magic, but also, um, juggling mm-hmm.
Um, I’m a keen juggler. Uh, I write a unicycle. I used to do circus skills workshops, and, uh, there was a time, uh, before I was doing all of this, um, that I even thought about joining the circus. And that is not even a joke. Uh, genuinely thought that could be where I, where I see myself. I love it. I love it. So especially, I mean, coming from a background of, uh, going to a magic camp when I was 14 and 15 years old, and, um, having several friends definitely in the industry and going, That’s not out of the ordinary, that’s standard for me.
Um, so. To, to then transition. What would you say it is about that performer’s mindset though that became one of those soft skills that now translates over to the work that you’re doing? I, I think it’s all performance. Mm-hmm. , you know, I mean, I think that ultimately what we’re doing is we’re playing around with, uh, we’re helping people to play around with their emotional states, and we have to be able to conjure up certain feelings and certain ideas and play with words, play with metaphors, play with ideas.
Um, there’s no part of that that doesn’t seem like a performance. Mm-hmm. , you know, if you think about it being in a theater and watching a performance, you know, the audience get lost in what’s going up on up front, like watching a tv. It’s no different from the trance they go into. And, uh, you know, the more you are able to perform, And see yourself as a performer, you know, it means that you know that you’ve got an audience who are going to get lost in the story of all of this.
And I think that helps get, get them, get swept up in the change. And it’s that realization too, that hypnotic suggestions are not just words, it’s actions, it’s sounds, it’s emotions, it’s tonality, and really you’ve gotta be willing to go there first. Otherwise it’s kind of hard to bring the client there along for the ride.
Well, you know, you say that Jason, but um, I do have to tell everybody that. I’m just so excited to be on your podcast today, , which wouldn’t translate, and everyone would know that there was no congruence behind that. Mm-hmm. , you know, and if I want someone to feel excitement about it, then you know, you’ve gotta do something.
You’ve gotta go there with your voice, you know? And, uh, what can I say? You know, I mean, I am deep down British, so, you know, that’s always working against , you know, But we get there. Yeah. This is me excited. Exactly. Yeah. , No, I mean it, Although it, it does kind of update some of the thinking. There’s a moment where I was giving a presentation and making a similar example as to you did, if I’m so excited to be here right now, as opposed to, and feel that excitement rising throughout you.
And I was demoing this in front of a, a meetup group one time, and local hypnotist raises his hand and goes, Yeah, but if you talk that excitedly, you’re gonna wake them up. It’s like, Oh dear. Oh my God. Thank you . That, I mean, what would be your response to this statement? Cuz my opinion is that, um, the hypnotic state is a lot less delicate than perhaps we would think as we first got started.
So, I mean, how would that translate over into the work that you do? Uh, how, just to simply go into the actual user experience as it were, how, what, what does that session typically look like? How does it usually take shape? So for me, I will do a lot of conversational work up front around, um, kind of what, uh, what’s, what issue are they experiencing and what do they want to happen?
I. And a lot of the stuff that I’m doing first is, I mean, for me, I, I kind of have a set format, which is, I wanna do what I would call is normalize the issue. So I want everyone in the first, like 10, 50 minutes to begin to realize that probably if they’ve been seeing themselves as, Oh no, I’m broken, that actually they begin to realize they’re not broken at all.
They, they’ve just learned to do some stuff that probably worked in one context, but maybe just isn’t working for them at the moment. But they’re not broken. The reason why they’re, they’re running those programs is totally normal. Um, at which point I’ll begin to nudge them towards, and this will be familiar, I’m sure, for people that have.
In the world of NLP and certainly, you know, hypnotists as well. Um, but I wanna get people to be, uh, at cause. So they, rather than being the effect of this terrible thing, uh, that they’ve been, uh, experiencing, they begin to responsibility for, Hey, guess what? This is all coming from the patterns that I’m running.
And you couple that with like, you know, it is totally normal as well for me. That’s what I would call where rapport comes in. You know, that they, they get that, you know what’s happening for them, but you’ve also framed it in a way where it’s empowering. They can make some changes to it. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, I, I will do some formal hypnosis cuz I think sometimes people like to feel that there is a part where that happens.
But I will be working conversationally through metaphor, through framing, through ideas well before that. And I personally believe that hypnosis is happening all the time. and there are context by which hypnosis is happening and people just don’t give it the label of hypnosis, you know, So I’ll give you the example.
And I do a lot of, I do a lot of sales training, uh, in business as well, where I kind of nudge people towards these ideas. But I always joke about the fact that I love shampoo adverts. Just love them, you know, because they always show some beautiful woman with Auburn long flowing hair underneath a tropical island paradise.
And if you ask people in Robin, you go, Okay. Right. Let’s be honest. Who here, when you shampoo has their own tropical island paradise that you shower under ? And people will go like and laugh cuz it’s ridiculous. So the question is, why do they show you that? Because you know, at the end of a long day when you’re watching primetime TV and the ad comes on and you see this beautiful woman with the long open hair and you hear the sound of the birds and the tropical island paradise, uh, some part of you goes, Oh yeah, that’s nice.
Isn’t that lovely? And you get lost in the imagination of it. And you start going inside and getting this lovely good feeling. And then they suddenly flash up their product and they become kind of linked. And then, you know, you’re in the shops. You’ve seen an advert six, seven times. You’re in the shops a few weeks later.
Uh, you need some shampoos. For some reason you’re drawn to that one. Why? Well, I would argue that’s hypnosis, but people didn’t give it the label. And because they didn’t dress it up in that formal way, I mean, let’s be honest, if they’d had swirly patterns on the screen and a big voice came over and went, Everyone closed your eyes.
When you wake up, every time you think about our product, you’ll be transported to a tropical island paradise and feel amazing. Back in the room, everyone would write letters of complaint and go, You can’t do this. This is like, try to mind control us. What are you doing? But that’s kind of what they’re doing, but we just dress it up differently and we didn’t spot it.
Although, is there power for you as the practitioner to work from that? Client perspective that we Oh, we haven’t started yet. Well, for me, I, I love that because, uh, yeah, most of the stuff, you know, I think happens. I mean, change happens unconsciously, you know, and I’m gonna seed lots of ideas so that we’ve primed the change to happen.
And of course, if they don’t, then you’re right. If they don’t think it’s happened yet, or we’re doing the hypnosis bit, it means that the resistance is lower. There’s nothing to fight. Cause they don’t think it’s happening. And for me, one of the best things about doing formal hypnosis at the end is that doing formal hypnosis allows you to do the covert stuff really easily ahead of time.
Mm-hmm. for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. So is there a, is there a story that kind of stands out of working with a client where that change was already in motion before ever formally close your eyes. Follow my instructions. Um, yeah, I mean, I, it’s funny I, that there’s one that does come to mind. Um, which is, uh, cause there’s actually quite a few that come to mind.
I, I’ll tell you one, um, an 11 year old bed wetter who apparently had not had a dry night, uh, ever. I mean, it just hadn’t, hadn’t happened for him. And he was getting embarrassed and he was wearing, he’s 11 years old, but he is what he’s still wearing, I was gonna say nappies, but I, you know, diapers, I guess I should say diapers.
And, um, I, I, I was teaching just to, we were just playing around with stuff and I was explaining how imagination can create realities and we were just having fun in inverted commas. Um, and we were doing some hand stick, you know, just sticking his hand to his lap, but showing him how he could do that and how he could create that and to all, in terms of purposes is this has nothing to do with bed wedding.
At all. So he’s learning how to do this and he’s having fun and I’ve shown him some magic, and we’re just chatting. Um, and later on I just begin to seed the idea that as we are talking about the bladder, that essentially his bladder’s like a bath, and there’s a little plug at the bottom, and all that happens when he is going to sleep is he’s just forgetting to stick the plug down properly.
That’s all. And I just started throwing out little ideas, like, if only you knew how you could stick things down, , if only there was a way. And we just started playing around with this. And essentially, um, you know, there’s, there’s a few more steps to to all this, but he went away. Uh, and the next thing, I’m getting a text from the mother three weeks later saying he’s had a, he’s been dry every night since.
Nice. But all we did was a hand stick and showed him how he could do that. And he knew he. He was doing it himself. He was using his focus in a particular way that he hadn’t learned to do before, but he, at some level, made the transition. And I would argue that’s, that’s seeding an idea. We didn’t ask him to do it directly.
Yeah. Which again, before there was ever the formal moment, which, not to use the R word here, but that could be a moment where there’s resistance. That could be a moment of, Oh, I need to get in position. Oh, I need to get ready for this. Oh, this is gonna be different. But to conversationally just share that experience and get in there.
That’s beautiful. Yeah. Um, and I, I’ve tried that approach offer. I mean, for some reason I, I’ve been getting a lot of bed, been having a lot of bed wets recently, and, um, yeah, it seems like a really, there’s a really nice approach where I see those ideas and it translates into some really amazing results.
Outstanding. Outstanding. Which has really, for you, I mean, there’s a brand attached to the work that you do, um, which there’s a whole other podcast, which I’d love to talk about here too, uh, featuring outstanding guests. I, I hear, uh, . Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the theme of going for that rapid change, which yes, as part of your backstory, you know, here you were for several years, going in frequently and still kind of stuck where you star started and, you know, the, the magical.
Uh, Magic of Insight just wasn’t paying off that well, now you know why you do this then, and that you knew why you felt that way, and yet you still felt that way. Um, when you achieved this rapid change, what is it, what is it behind that sort of passion that this is that message that you’re now putting out to the world?
So I think there are, there are two things, well actually kind of three things that have ha happened that has led me to be very passionate about getting a message, delivering a message to the world that rapid change really is possible. And the first one is, is absolutely, as you’ve said, this experience with a psychotherapist for three and a half years.
Where maybe it could have been, uh, significantly quicker if I’d been had some different thinking around it. Um, the second thing is, is I, I been very privileged actually to have a couple of years, um, where I was, uh, one of the, the, the lead psychological, uh, speaker. Uh, on Virgin Atlantics, critically acclaimed flying without fair course.
So I was lucky enough to every, every month or so be in a room with a hundred, uh, terrified and fearful and anxious, uh, flyers. Um, and would get to spend a couple of hours presenting some ideas about how they can change their thoughts and began to see that just this stuff, I mean, it just works. And, you know, the, the course itself boasted, I think it was a 98.2% success rate, um, based on the, the feedback and the surveys they were doing in terms of people, uh, and how, how they felt.
You know, and seeing people go from abject fear to totally finding they can do that in a very short space of time. And, and watching that and facilitating that, it, it really adds credence to, to your belief and that intention, that congruence behind. I know this stuff actually does work. Um, I got spotted by, um, and I can’t have to be careful what I say here, but I was spotted by a TV production company who wanted to, uh, film me in.
And they fixed me up with some people to work with. And, um, without going into too much detail, because I’m not sure that I can, um, there was a guy that I worked with, um, who was terrified of water cuz I think he nearly drowned when he was five. And now 30 years later he can’t go near any big bodies of water.
And they said to me, If you can get into touch the water, that would just be incredible. Now this guy, when I start working with him and they’re filming the whole thing, he was just, I mean, I was, I was kind of lucky, but he was super responsive to everything I did. And within about 20 minutes, 20 minutes, He’s saying, Yeah, I’m all right now.
Mm-hmm. , I said, Well, let’s go and test it. And this guy didn’t just go, uh, touch the water, he went under the water and they all had to start screaming. And they’re going, Go get the GoPro cameras. We’ve gotta film him under the water. And this is amazing. And they’re all patting me on the pack and I’m just feeling like a hero and this is great and fine.
Um, and a couple of months later, um, they, they send me the footage that they’re gonna put together as part of this, this, this, this show. And they, with this statement, and they say, Just to let you know, we’ve cut out the water phobic entirely. Oh wow. We’ve cut out the, the, the guy with the water issue.
Totally. And the reason, and I said, What do you mean you’ve cut him out? And they said, Well, here’s the thing Howard. And this was a real moment for me in my life cuz they went the real thing Howard is real change. Just doesn’t happen that quickly. Mm. the thing was, it was too quick. They just didn’t believe it could be true, or they certainly believe that it, it, you know, or, or they certainly worried that maybe other people would question it, thought it’s authenticity and they just thought how sad that there are these amazing strategies out there, amazing techniques, amazing uh, change workers out there who are still up against some of the myths that are perpetuated by sort of, you know, the sort of Freudian model of, oh, you know, we have to 500 to 600 hours of analysis, you know, before we may begin to see some results.
And, um, you know, that’s just not, not what I’m seeing and that’s not what other top change workers are witnessing and seeing. I thought we’ve gotta do something that begins to change the, the, the, the social consciousness, the awareness of the fact that change really can happen. And I would even argue that it’s not just that change, it’s possible for it to happen quickly.
I would argue that it, when change happens, it pretty much always happens quickly. It’s just sometimes it can take a little time to find the bit to change, but once you find it, you know, change happens. You know? Um, so that’s, for me, what the podcast was about. It was about let’s track down people who are out there on the call face, who are involved in change work, who are agents of change, who are getting great results, who are seeing the change happens quickly.
And let’s talk to them. Let’s interview them. Let’s hear and tune into the attitudes, the mindsets, the things that were gonna help. To combat that mindset of, well, I’ve had the problem for 40 years. How can you possibly get rid of it in less than 80 years? You know? Uh, and that’s the mission that for, for me, I’m on.
And that’s where, um, the, the, the. The rapid change thing was really born. Yeah. And the Rapid Change podcast comes out, correct me on this, uh, twice a month on iTunes. And where else can people track it down? Uh, well, it’s also on Stitcher, on iTunes, as you say. Um, but the best place to find out what’s coming and to see all the details about it is at, uh, www.rapidchange.works.
And you can see all the coming soon, uh, items that are coming up. Uh, and also we’ve got a full archive as well. Uh, and we’re now on, I think episode 36 or 37. Cool. Cool. Which will definitely link to that over in the show notes. I wanna come back to that moment though of, uh, being edited out that the water, the water fear change was too rapid.
And let me bring up a premise from the magic industry. That there’s something that, I forget the man in name who this is often attributed back to, but it’s a common theory now of what’s called the two perfect theory. Yeah. That sometimes if the trick was too incredible, um, it wasn’t as impressive. And to give a simple example, there is a thing that David Copperfield did on a television special many years ago, and it’s just a floating ball.
There’s a metal ball and it’s just flying around the stage and it’s amazing. However, there’s no bad moment. And you’re watching and going, Yeah, that can’t be real. It’s gotta be some sort of camera trick when this is something he did in his live shows and it was created by someone else, and other people have done it too.
Meanwhile, there’s a classic routine where it’s also a floating ball. But the difference is you have this big cloth and the ball is poking up over the cloth, it’s poking out the side, and clearly the ball is flying, but you never see the ball floating independently from this, uh, from this cloth. And somehow, even though it’s not as visually appealing, it’s a slightly more impressive trick.
Because there’s the, again, it’s that two perfect thing. Um, I’m curious if you think, and I don’t have an answer to this, that’s why I’m bringing it up to you. Uh, if, if there’s some sort of correlation, My, my first thought would be that I think back to of all people, uh, Cheryl Elman, Talking about why your fingers should be together when you’re doing the Dave Elman induction during the fractionation moment and her languages.
Because lingerie is sexier than being nude. Yeah. . So I, Is there an element of going for, I hate to say this too, perfect, of a change too quickly, that the client’s conscious mind is gonna start to indicate it? I, I think there is, I think it’s a really interesting, um, Point you raise. And I would argue that fields like, you know, thought field therapy and, uh, I think EFT as well, they have a term, um, if I remember correctly, something like the Apex problem, which they, uh, refer to that thing of if someone changes very quickly, almost too quickly and too magically, and they’ve had a problem for 30 years, then they can kind of, they, they struggle with that.
They kind of start going, well, you know, how, how it can’t possibly have gone, They can almost kind of talk themselves back into it because it was too easy. Mm-hmm. , it happened too quickly and. You know, I, I, I think the reality is, is that, you know, a lot of people, um, I mean I had this today with a, with, with a lady who’s like, we, we looked at something differently and she said, Oh, I didn’t realize I’ve been, I’ve been just silly all of these years.
And what she meant was she was kind of berating herself for not realizing that she could think about things differently. And she’s now going, Oh, I’ve just been so stupid all of this time. And we start, you know, and I don’t, I don’t look at it that way. I look at it a little bit like, you know, there was years ago when everyone washed their clothes using a mango , right?
We used a mango and that was the way we did it. We put a lot of time and effort using this flipping mango and it was just tiring for the arms. And, but that’s how people did it. And then the washing machine came out, right? And then, um, you know, it was easier, but you know, when the washing machine came out, it wouldn’t have been right to look back at all the people that we using the mangles years ago going, What idiots using manes?
Can you bully? Cuz that’s all there was. That’s all they knew. That’s how it worked. The only idiot idiotic thing would be to know that there’s a washing machine and to still be using the man. When, you know, the washing machine’s right there. Mm-hmm. . So you’re saying that people are operating with the best resources they have available to them at that given time.
You see, you said it so much more eloquently, , you just cut right into the heart of it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No, I mean, it’s where I, We won’t time stamp the time of recording this, cuz actually this is gonna release about, uh, two or three weeks after we’ve recorded it. Uh, but it’s the exact scenario as to why we started a little bit late and I flashed to, uh, hearing Melissa tears talk at times and she gave the reference of, I think she called it the Yeah.
But that you’ve done this change work and how do you feel now? Oh, I feel empowered. I can do this. Yeah. But this is the thing I’ve had for many years and as soon as we were right at the border of completely solidifying the change process, I was getting the, yeah. From this client and it, it’s where I, I, I’ve played with this over the years and it just becomes a conversational strategy just to go, you know, I’ll lay it out there to you.
I’ve done this work now for, you know, many years. I’ve seen a bunch of people and it was a little surprising to figure out that getting the change is actually quite easy. It’s working to get rid of the idea that it has to be hard to do. Uh, that’s where we’re gonna probably spend the most amount of time.
Makes sense. And, and the moment I get a buy into that, it’s the whole That’s right. This, this can be easy. It does happen in that instant, It can happen rapidly here. Well, I I, I’ve often had a moment where I, I, and the phrase I’ll often use to people is, you know, um, it is like the change has happened, but your belief in the change is yet to catch up.
And I, I think there’s really interesting conversations that I’ve had with people in the past, certainly even on, on my podcast, around what I would call convinces strategies. So how does someone know that they, that they’ve changed, Like, and when is that moment? And, um, some people are just, you know, they know, they feel it straight away in the session, you know?
Okay. So it’s fear of flying. I haven’t flown yet, but guess what? I know I’m fine now. I know it’s sorted. And then you’ve got other people who are like, they, they know something’s happened, but they kind of just gotta fly once. To check, and then they’ll see it’s fine. And then they’re totally the, like, the spells broken.
Occasionally I find you get people who are convinced by number. So it’s like they go, Well, if I do 15 flights, then I’ll be, then I’ll know I’m okay. And they’re a little rarer. And I’ve even had people who are just, despite the fact that they can fly everywhere and do everything, they’ll never be convinced.
And I mean, the weirdest one I had was a guy who came to see me actually just thinking about him now. And he’d see me present on the, the Flying Without Fair Course. And then he contacted me a year later and said, Listen, I need to, to create, to see, see you one on one, because the course didn’t totally work for me.
So he turns up and we arranged a session and I said, So what happened? Like, tell me what happened, you know, before you went on the course, After you went on the course and what’s happened since. He said, Well, Howard, you know, before I went on the course, I couldn’t go to an. Without having a panic attack, couldn’t even see that picture of a plane without freaking out.
And then since the course, and this is what he says, since the course I’ve, um, I, I’ve been to many airports. I’ve flown around the world. I’ve got my pilot’s license, and now I fly a plane myself, . And I went, Sorry, , you, you what? But it was only, like you said, it didn’t totally work for you. So like, what else is there to do?
He said, Well, I’m now trying to get my helicopter license and I’m not partial to the feeling of vertical takeoff. Yeah. And, uh, I just felt like this is probably someone that you know, I, you know, no matter what we do, like, how’s he gonna convince himself if all that hasn’t convinced him that he’s okay now?
I mean, are there specific strategies that you’re using at times to, to really highlight that change, to really point out that something has happened? Is there something that you’re bringing to the process to really, you know, shine that spotlight on it? A hundred percent. For me, one of the, the golden rules that I will always do at the beginning of any session is I wanna see the problem state there and then, and I want them to know that I’m seeing it.
I wanna excite it, I wanna activate it. I wanna see. Um, and the reason why, and let’s get specific briefly, how do you go about typically doing that? I will ask them very specific questions about like, When was the last time you did that? Tell me about it. And I’ll shift my tempes and, you know, Okay, so you’re there now.
What, what’s happening? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? What’s going on for you? So you’re associated the mentor right now, I would totally want them to be present, state, associated into the problem state, because A, I wanna see how it works. . And b more importantly, I want them to, I, I want them to be able to see the contrast at the end of the session.
Mm-hmm. . And the other thing that I will often do, um, is, and this is particularly useful for things like flying or when, cuz I don’t know, you know, I don’t have a plane, you know, that I can test it out right straight away. I’m just, you know, I’m sorry, you know, I, you know, maybe spiders I could get, but the plane, it’s not, it’s not in my back pocket.
Um, but people will go, will go, Oh, it’s the plane. I’m worried about the flying. You know, I won’t know until I go on the plane. Which, yeah, okay. We’ve talked about the, the people that are convinced like that. But for me, I always wanna nudge them towards the understanding that it was never anything to do with the plane.
Um, and I, I mean, I would do this on the thorough flying course. One of the first things I would say in front of a room full of a hundred people who were booked had a lot of money to be on a a course about fear of flying is I’d look out at the room and the first thing I’d say is, I gotta be honest with you all, I don’t think anyone here has got a fear of flying.
And they look at me literally like I’ve gone, Matt, you know, And I’d say, I’ll prove it to you. Who here when? Okay. Who here? When you think about flying feels anxious, and a hundred people would stick their hand in the air. And I go, That’s it. Cause look around and realize you are in a hotel conference center.
You’re not on a plane right now, which means if you can feel anxious about flying when you’re not flying, it’s not the flying that does it. It’s your thoughts about it. And I think that is just a beautiful thing because if you can really connect people with this idea and get them to embody and, and really understand that it’s all just thoughts.
Ultimately that creates all. And then you can activate those thoughts in a way where they associate into the problem later on. When you associate them into those thoughts and they don’t have the same response, they know something must have happened even without the flying. Cuz guess what? It was never anything to do with the flying anyway.
Beautiful. So that opportunity to again, see the problem state, then bring them back into it, and actually be able to calibrate that something has happened rather than I always make fun of the model of, um, you know, fingers crossed hypnosis of, you know, uh, well, let me know how it goes. But to get that feedback right away and to to, to highlight it to the person too, of this is what’s happening differently.
This is how you’re feeling now. Or getting it in their words too, especially. But you see, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, Jason, with and highlight it because a lot of people will go, The reason that I want them to, to be associated with the problem at the beginning and at the end is so that the therapist can calibrate.
But I think the other side of it is it’s you want, it’s not just that you need to calibrate, it’s that the client needs to calibrate to feel the difference. That’s where the convincing comes from. Outstanding. Outstanding. So then what, how is it you spend most of your time these days? What’s the, what’s the focus in terms of where your, uh, work is now going?
Um, well, I think because of my, my links in the past, um, I, I would say 40, 50% of the session that I do seem to be around fear of flying. Um, and I seem to be, you know, uh, having, uh, having an increasing reputation in that area. Um, but then alongside that, lots of things around anxiety, panic attacks. I mean, I’m really passionate about that because I’m an, I’m an ex anxiety sufferer, so there is part of me that really relates and wants to be able to help people who are, who are struggling in that way.
Um, and then obviously on the periphery there’s some other things, like all the usual stuff that, that, you know, practitioners like us, you know, work with. But I would say, yeah, anxiety, panic, attacks, um, you know, and fears I guess would be make up the, the mainstay of the work that I do. Yeah. Got it, got it.
So then, uh, with the Rapid Change podcast, if you had to, and uh, this is not a leading question cuz Yes, I’ve been featured on it, . Um, if, if you had to really highlight and say to somebody, You know, listen to them all. Go through all of them. But if you had to say these are maybe, um, we’ll phrase it in a very respectful way so no one gets offended that they’re not mentioned.
Yeah. Which I’m not referring to myself here. Of course. Um, if you had to say of the top 10 here or three that you should absolutely go to first. . Okay. There’s a nice political way of phrasing it. I, I’ve, I’ve got three that stand out and I can tell you, even I can tell you why is, uh, Melissa tears, um, jorgen as moan.
Mm-hmm. and, um, Trevor Sylvester as well. Um, and I’m, I’m, I’m deliberately, uh, not saying you just because. You’re here, you’re here, and we all know you’re fantastic as well. Um, and he’s on there as well and he’s fantastic on that too. Um, but um, yeah, I think what I liked about the, the, the Melissa Tears interview was, you know, there’s this overarching pattern that she hints at for what change is all about and the structure of how change happens.
So for me, if you hear that, it’s kind of a good way of overarching and bringing together all of the different ways in which all the other change workers that I interview kind of operate, that you could put a lot of the techniques and the ideas through that filter that she presents. So I think that’s really interesting.
Um, the reason why I like Jorgen, uh, interview stands out is I just, I love the idea that he’s okay with failure. I think it’s refreshing, you know, I mean he, um, this idea that. You know, I, if you read, uh, his book, Provocative Hypnosis, certainly the first one I remember reading it and getting to the end of the chapter where he talks about working with a, I can’t remember the, the example of the client, but I remember getting to the end of it and going, Wow, that was amazing.
But the end chapter says, And by the way, it didn’t work with this guy. And I went, You, what? What do you mean it didn’t work? Cause we’re so used to reading, uh, stuff where we only hear about the stuff that works and it’s great and everyone’s perfect, and everyone is just amazing. And it reads like sort of marketing.
Yeah. Well, it’s the, it’s the, it’s the social media environment of people posting about, Hey, I came back from the gym today. Hey, I just hate this really healthy meal. And they’re not posting the moment where they stayed in bed, hitting the world and ordering a pizza. Um, absolutely. They don’t always post that one.
And I think it’s refreshing to hear someone who’s at the top of the game, who’s absolutely brilliant at what they do, but saying, Guess what? We all fail. And that’s okay. I mean, I have a bug bear. I’m, I’m, I had a, yesterday I had a guy come to see me and he sat right in front of me and he said, I said, Oh, have you seen anyone else?
And he went, Yeah, three weeks ago I saw a therapist who has a 100% success rate. You know, um, I, I’m, I’m getting slightly frustrated because I keep hearing that, but I think it’s okay, you know, uh, cuz if I put myself in the shoes of someone starting out in this industry, when they hear that there are people out there who proclaim, they get, are getting a hundred percent, I think it’s a shame.
And it’s quite damaging because when they go and they have their first failure, inevitably, you know, because, you know, I don’t know anyone who actually gets absolutely cast iron, 100% success with absolutely every issue in every single circumstance. But if someone that hasn’t done it before believes that the top therapists are getting 100% and then goes and fails, they become disheartened.
They go, Well, what am I doing wrong? And maybe. Actually, they’re doing some really good stuff and they’re gonna help a load of people. But having the mindset of, unless I’m a hundred percent, I just, you know, I’m just, Oh, whoa. Will it, it’s not helpful. Which I have to share the quick anecdote that, uh, a couple of, uh, probably about a year ago, I was putting in workshops for different conventions that I was gonna be speaking at, and I started to compile a.
A list in the thought was, let me just see if I can creep in one really badly titled workshop and see if they actually respond and, you know, see if someone’s actually reading this. And you know, one of them was titled, No, You Shut Up A Modern Guide to Making and Breaking Rapport. Uh, , one of them was, and the one that comes to mind, which again, these were all just meant to be a joke.
Um, one was, uh, 100% success, How to Get Zero Doctor Referrals. Mm-hmm. , Yeah. Where if you’re making that claim. But yeah, there’s something brutally honest about telling the story around, here’s where it didn’t work, here’s where, you know, this could have gone wrong. Here’s where there might have been something out of my control.
Or here’s something that may be going back, something that you said earlier, which is beautiful. That even you said that. Yeah. If I maybe had a different mindset going through those three years of therapy, I might have had a different result. Yeah. Yeah. Which as luck would have it. I’m looking here, I had to pull up my stats here.
Uh, the podcast sessions that I did with Jurgen and the one with Melissa are amongst the most downloaded sessions that I’ve done. But tell us briefly about the one with, you said Trevor sve. Yeah, so Travis Sylvester, um, founded a field over here, and I think you have a similar term over there, but it’s kind of his own branding, uh, uh, called cognitive hypnotherapy.
Um, but there’s no, what I would call formal trance. He’s basically gone on a journey where he’s pulled or he’s, he’s been interested in the stuff from nlp, the stuff from hypnosis, the stuff that he’s discovered, kind of works and packaged shit up to, to give people a way of navigating, uh, change. But the thing that impressed me about him is I’ve met a number of people that have, uh, practitioners that have come from the Quest Institute, which is his training organization who are cognitive hypno therapists.
And by far they seem to be some of the most prolific and well trained practitioners, um, coming out of that. So I was fascinated to interview him and, um, I just think he’s got a very nice way of looking at. Hypnosis and he talks about, essentially we’re not doing hypnosis. You know, we’re dehumanizing people out of the problem s they’re in.
And when I, I talk to him about, you know, how do you deal with people when they say they have deep problems? He has this lovely reframe. and I, you know, I, I have to tell you, I, I pinch it and I, I always credit him with it, but I have to tell you, I think it’s great. Uh, and he says, uh, he talks about, you know, actually they’re not deep problems.
They’re shallow problems. Mm. And the reason being is that, you know, if there’s a pattern that’s important that, that some part of you thinks is important for its survival, it’s not gonna bury it deep. It’s gonna keep it close to the surface. Like, think about it, if you were going out in a, on a field in battle, you don’t put your shield at the bottom of the bag on your back.
You hold it in your hand. And it’s because that you wear this problem close to the surface. That’s why it’s gonna be so easy to deal with, cuz it’s always there. We can get rid of it. Beautiful. Which, what I want people to really hear from this is that as much as someone could look at the advent of podcasting and putting out information, sharing this knowledge, um, let’s be honest, this is also for you, isn’t it?
Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. . Which, which the, the strategy to pull out of that for people is that take control of your learning. You know, it’s where I flash back to one of my very first hypnosis conventions and I, maybe day one was putting certain people up in a pedestal to go, Oh, but I can’t talk to that person.
And finally I just went, I flew here, I’m paying for a hotel, and I just walked over and sat down next to them at the restaurant and say, Hey, can we chat for a bit? And yeah, sure. And suddenly struck up a conversation and now we’re rather good friends that the people who are often the most successful, the most prolific in this profession.
Also luckily turn out to be some of the most giving as well. And you can really, if there’s something that’s missing in your education, ask, make that connection. That’s what really gets that all in motion. I found it. It, it’s totally been my experience, uh, what you’re saying. And before I even embarked on the mission of the podcast, there was part of me that was going well, Like, Will, will they, will they talk to me
Like I might just been bowled over by how incredibly friendly and welcoming, um, most, I say most cause not all, but most of the people that I’ve ever approached, uh, you know, have been with willing with their time, willing with their energy and willing to, to, to spend, you know, you know, real amounts of time going through and talking to me and, and our listeners.
With stuff that, that’s just great. And I would, I’ll absolutely say that I, I’ve learned something from talking to every single person. And even if it’s just a metaphor or an idea or just one nuance of a way of looking at something, you know, money, literally, you, you can’t put a value on on what that is.
And you know, Um, a, a monetary value on what it is. It’s, it’s, it’s absolutely priceless. Yeah. So to keep that passion for learning and buckle up for this, uh, transitional phrase. So where can people learn about more of you online? Um, so in terms of, uh, the podcast, um, The hub for all of that and all of the resources that, um, beginning to unfold and release for other therapists and other change workers [email protected].
Um, for people that are interested in, uh, doing some one-on-one work with me, they can, uh, check out creating more.co dot. Outstanding. Howard, it’s been awesome having you on here. It’s been absolutely fun as always, and uh, yeah, absolutely. Lovely. Thank you for having me.
Hey, Jason, Lynette here, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, for sharing it online, introducing other folks to it, as well as going online and leaving your positive reviews over on iTunes and commenting on it on Facebook. And yes, let’s share the stage while you’re there.
Subscribe to the Rapid Change Matters podcast with Howard Cooper and get the updates as he releases these outstanding conversations. And once again, head over to work smart hypnosis.com for more updates on this podcast series As. Hypnotic workers.com. That’s where you can get that all access pass to my hypnosis training library.
We don’t need any more scripts as hypnotists. Instead, what we need are transcripts. And one of the really cool things you’re gonna love inside of hypnotic workers is there are real demonstrations, real client sessions, and you’re not just watching it. You can download it, you can watch it on your own devices, you can listen to it at your own leisure.
Or even better, every word of it has been transcribed. That way you’re able to model the language, unpack the strategies for yourself, and build that unstoppable confidence in your own hypnotic process. Check it out. Hypnotic workers.com. See you on the inside. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.