Session #155: Tim Horn on Hypnotic Collaboration

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

---

This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 155. Tim Horn on hypnotic collaboration. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and out. Standing Business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Welcome back. It’s Jason Lynette here.

And you know what’s kind of interesting? As I was glancing through some of the most recent podcast sessions I had Derek Chapman from the United Kingdom, Kevin Lay from England as well, Uh, Heather Rodriguez from Saskatchewan, and Kaz Riley from the uk, Steven Blake from the uk. So it’s about time I have Tim Horn on the program because Tim lives about 30 miles down the road.

Uh, Tim actually comes from Manassas, Virginia, and, uh, I can actually thank Tim for a lot of where I am today in the profession. Somebody that, as I just moved to the Northern Virginia area, got to know him, got to collaborate on a few projects and helping to build a local community, which then. Help to build to this international online community that is the Work Smart Hypnosis brand.

You’re gonna hear a lot of interesting nuances to Tim’s background in terms of coming from a background in sales, then transitioning into formal education, getting his PhD in theater, as well as working as an actor, then leading to a career as a teacher. And then transitioning nowadays full time as a hypnotist.

And the phrase goes that of the soft skills, how everything has led to this moment inside of the work that he does. So you’re gonna hear some incredible nuances, some really, really interesting points in terms of how that theatrical thinking has influenced his work. With his clients, how the years working as a professional educator has not just influenced, of course, the classes that he teaches, but also the mindset in terms of how to help that client really be in that collaborative moment and really produce that change.

And one of the most powerful words in this conversation is that theme of just the word. Allow that to allow the client to do the work for themselves, to get them to that ideal place where they can create that breakthrough, they can create that outcome in this program too, we mentioned some of Tim’s upcoming trainings.

He is a trainer of. The Simpson Protocol, who’s, uh, EZ has been a guest on this program several times, and we’ll put links in the show notes [email protected] for the training he’s doing at the Heartland Hypnosis Convention, as well as the GH Convention. And of course, check out Tim’s personal website for his local business, hypno consult.com to learn all about Tim and reach out to him as well.

I’d also encourage you once again to head over to the website fill up formula. Dot com. This is the two headed business training that Dan Kendel and I are doing prior to the National Guild of Hypnotist Convention. It’s coming up, uh, just before the NG Convention in Massachusetts, and all the details are there [email protected] though.

With that, let’s jump directly into this phenomenal conversation. This is session number 155. Tim Horn on hypnotic collaboration.

I was having panic attacks when I was about 23 years old. And uh, it’s not really cool to wake up when you’re 23, 24 years old and you’re in perfect health thinking you’re having a heart attack. So I took a self hypnosis class and with that about two months, didn’t have the panic attacks anymore, sleeping better doing all the rest of that.

So I saw the power of the mind. Yeah. And to rewind that back, was that like just like a one day event or what was the shape of that? Oh no, it was, uh, Two days at, uh, a place called, um, it was a place that did training for, uh, the silver mine method. So, and they had a hypnotist come in just for, you know, a couple days, learn self-hypnosis, and I thought that was pretty interesting.

So I took the class and then, oh, about 10, 12 years later, I took a full certification from the Goldman and, uh, then hypnotist will be my 25th year now. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. And, and kinda stick within that story for a moment. What was it that would you just say kind of stood out from, you know, learning the self hypnosis side of it and, and putting it into use yourself?

What did you find, let’s say, let’s say, uh, interesting or unique about that? Well, what really was for me, the being able not to be distracted by so many other things, by being able to release. Focus on the goals I wanted to accomplish. It was a lot different from meditation teaching it. Yeah. We both have a theatrical background and, uh, I think I like the improvisation going in, seeing how things work.

Mm-hmm. being able to teach other people how to go and, uh, and find those different things within people’s lives. And show them how they’ve constructed their lives from the very beginning. I found that really interesting. Yeah. Sort like a, uh, psychological puzzle. Yeah. Putting all those pieces together and it’s where, you know, very few of us kind of grow up thinking, I wanna be a hypnotist when I grow up.

And we all come from these different backgrounds, different journeys. So, 23 years old, taking that self hypnosis training, what, what kind of path were you on at that point? Oh, I did sales. I actually was. Sales. And, um, I did, uh, sales and cars and other things for about, uh, 10 years, but it got to the point where I really discovered I was hating it.

Mm-hmm. and I, uh, I went and did some graduate work in theater. Uh, I finished a master’s degree at, uh, SUNY Binghamton and went to the University of Georgia and did some work there. Did my dissertation research at, uh, And, uh, I enjoyed doing the theater, but it’s such a cutthroat thing. Yes. Um, I discovered that there are a lot of similarities with, uh, hypnosis and, and being on stage.

The ability to take yourself away from the situation and allow ideas to come up and create them and modify them, affect people’s emotions, allow their emotions to move them in a proper direction. So I went from doing theater and teaching to hypnosis full time. A major event happened, uh, that sounds familiar.

Yes, it does. It does. But let’s, uh, those of you don’t know. Jason was an, uh, incredibly good stage manager and while I was on stage, Jason was making sure absolutely everything was put in place. Mm-hmm. , um, on stage, you know, at just the right time. All the rest of this incredibly well organized, which makes Jason fantastic at what he does.

Oh, thank you. I do. I did a lot of theater, uh, the acting and the improvisation, the things coming up. And so I, I look at things in a slightly different way to get to the same goal. I was teaching for a long time, uh, and doing hypnosis part-time, and then there was a major event in my life. My sister became sick and I ended up having to, uh, retire early from teaching and became a caregiver.

And after that I just decided gonna do the hypnosis full time. So I’m devoted to doing that now. And interestingly, I help, uh, a few of my clients, they help with chemotherapy and give them a better attitude about dealing with things like cancer and other sorts of illnesses. Yeah. To rewind back though for a moment, mentioning that there’s a, there’s a through.

Between hypnosis and even into theater. And, uh, there’s a workshop I did. Absolutely. There’s a workshop I did a couple of years ago that, quite honestly, I filmed it and it was so weird we didn’t release it, uh, that it was taking, uh, Kristen Link laters, freeing the actor’s voice and bringing that into hypnotic tonality.

And I think you might have been there for that one. Um, that it was your block with me and. It was, you know, there’s a lot of laying on the floor and imagine feeling yourself sinking, getting in touch with the body. And, um, it was just a weird workshop. Maybe we’ll plug it in somewhere at some point. But, uh, there’s a, there’s a through line that I mentioned in a workshop this past weekend that we could define hypnosis as being that bypassing of the critical faculties of the mind.

And it’s that, it’s that bypassing, it’s not that deletion. So even the actor on stage, they can be fully in character. They could fully be in the moment though. Respectfully, they can’t absolutely, completely be there, otherwise they might fall off the stage. Oh, absolutely. , there is the, uh, the person, the person in theater I, two people I discussed.

Interestingly enough, I’ll be teaching a, uh, a workshop at the Heartland Hypnosis Conference called the Hypnotist Actor. Yes. And the people I’m going to discuss are, uh, now Peter Brooks said that all you need for a theater was an actor, an audience in an empty space. The other person I really like to talk about is a director from Poland, Jersey.

Grotowski and Grotowski had an idea of called the Via Negative, where he trains his actors, all the physical movements, all of this. And what he does is he breaks down to the very core. So all that remains is their true existence. And that’s the baseline from where they build a character. They take in whatever information comes to them, and because everything else, all the artifice has been stripped away.

You know, the true actions, the true motions come out. And if you think about it, that’s sort of what we do with hypnosis. We try to take away the artis to get to the core of her. The person is. So that they can, they can create their lives in the best way possible without having all the distractions, all the disappointments, all the lives they’ve told of themselves about limitations and things like that.

So I think there’s a real, uh, a real connection between what happens, uh, in theater and what happens, uh, in a hypnosis session. Yeah, I mean, even down to the quality of the voice, the way that the emotion is that driving through line that, you know, if we’re there in the session saying, Feel the most confident you’ve ever felt, That’s probably not gonna do so much, but bringing some of that energy into it, bringing some of that meaning into it, and actually exciting that state.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think the client though, knows my expectation. Uh, Of what, uh, of what confidence is. My expectation of excitement may be entirely different from the client. And allowing the client to find that excitement for themselves where it’s natural for them and it’s congruent with their existence is really important.

You know? Mm-hmm. , um, you want to guide them. You don’t want to tell them where they’re going. Right? Yeah. Does a catch phrase that somehow crept into some of my trainings recently, which is that it’s a hypnosis training, but to say, Okay, stop doing hyp. Where Wow. Absolutely. Yeah. Where someone’s suggesting the entire experience, directing everything that’s supposed to be happening as opposed to letting it develop naturally.

Yeah. The word j uh, Jerry kind always liked the word allow you allow things to happen. Yes. You know? Yeah. It’s the idea of stripping away until what is there, is there, um, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Although I, I’m curious to hear your take on this and I. Presentation theme of the hypnotist is the actor.

There’s a, there’s a quote from a French magician, I believe, in the 17 hundreds. Jean Eugene, Robert Huan, who, uh, young Eric Weiss, emulated and I, This is the one French name I can pronounce. Don’t be impressed. Uh, . A young, a young boy, but the name of Eric Weiss. Uh, emulated Huan Houdini. Exactly. Eric Weiss changed his name to Houdini, but that quote from Huan was that a magician was an actor playing the role of a magician.

Otherwise, you know, my paraphrase of that is that otherwise they’re just the technician and, you know, no, that doesn’t mean we have to wear, uh, uh, eyeshadow and makeup and have low rolling fog in our offices, though that might help. Uh, but to have the experience that we are creating that environment.

Where this change can take place. No, I, I think that’s absolutely, I think that’s absolutely correct. Uh, you have to, creating the space for the growth is the important thing. It’s, it’s the idea if you’re going to build a, my wife is really, uh, big into horses and creating. Um, show jumping courses, and what she has to do is design the course so it, it matches the needs of the horses as they go along.

And then as the horses go along, they’ve learned the training, they’ve got the mechanics of doing it, and they can allow the fact that they’re a horse, lead them on the way through the course in the proper way. You wanna make sure that the ground you’ve created for the clients when they come in is comfortable.

And fertile for them to grow. You don’t wanna put up artificial blocks before you do it. Something you said earlier about the, uh, hypnosis stop hypnotizing people. The truth is what I’m telling my clients basically is that I’m deh hypnotizing you, I’m taking away from all the things you’ve been hypnotized to believe that just are not true.

So you can open up and, and create the true you, which is a lot greater than you ever imagined. Yeah, well it’s that metaphor of the statue creation, shipping away the layers that just don’t need to be there. Tian, it was, uh, yes, Michael Angelo said that, uh, the, the David was always beautiful. All he had to do was take the flawed piece of marble and chip away until it was there.

He’s just really releasing the beauty within. So what other elements are you bringing when you’re working with a client? Let’s get into that user experience. What kind of. Elements are you making sure are there to, to build that baseline or start from that baseline, let’s say? Well, the first thing you have to do is build rapport with the clients.

You wanna make sure that they realize they’re coming into a nudge, a non, a nonjudgmental area. They don’t wanna ever have to question themselves about how I look at them or whether I will, um, whether I’ll, I’ll think less of them for whatever they tell me. That’s the first thing. Um, the idea. Clients are coming in and they’re wearing a mask automatically.

I mean, we all do to some degree. We hide our true selves until we feel comfortable with someone. So what I do is I talk to them, we discuss normal, general things, and after they feel comfortable, I take them through, you know, general suggestibility tests. I have them sign a, if not a contract, to let them know exactly what I’m going to do and my expectations for them as well.

After they do that, I tend to use. Uh, the Elman induction and I go into the Simpson Protocol. Primarily, I use that, uh, a great deal where the clients are doing the work themselves without me putting anything in. The clients are allowed to go to their level to find their places that are gonna work for them.

They, uh, they find the areas that need to be worked on and they worked on them themselves. Part of that is allowing the clients to feel empowered, to make the changes, to let them realize that they’re capable of doing it. When they have that feeling, when they have that, that feeling that they’re capable of making the change, their expectation tends to be realized.

Yeah. So let’s rewind back. I wanna chat about that hypnotic contract, which I love that theme of. If I can give a criticism at time, I see too many people in hypnosis think that the entire work is, you know, we use the phrase that the entire process is hypnosis, though I think not enough people are really working in that context where the expectation would be, Okay, now that the eyes are closed, we can get to work.

What is it that you’re, you’re folding into that contract as you’re there with that client in that first session. Oh, okay. As a, we’ll talk about the hypnotic contract in general. Yes. You are an incredible stage. Hypnotist, you know, I’ve seen your work, uh, something. But what happens is you make your hyp not a contract with the people when they come on stage.

They’re not hypnotized. When they sit down in the chair, they’re hypnotized. As soon as you walk in, you begin talking to, you’re building that, uh, agreement that we’re gonna have fun. I’m not gonna make you do anything too embarrassing. You’re gonna have fun up here. And if I did anything that made you embarrassed, you obviously could.

You are in. But we’re here to have fun. I will not do anything that bothers you and you’ll go along. There’s that contract, right? It’s the same thing. When my clients come in, the first thing I do is talk to them. I ask ’em how they’re doing. We talk about things other than hypnosis or what’s really going on with them.

Yes. Such as what you want them to know. Yeah. That’s all part of the hypnosis. I mean, it’s definitely not. What you’re doing is you’re building that rapport and part of the rapport is hypnotic. Your eyes never have to be closed. Mm-hmm. to be hypnotized. You know, that’s, that’s a misnomer. But, um, when they come in, you establish that rapport.

You allow them to feel good. You allow them to feel empowered. And sometimes what I’ll do, there’s a technique called hypno waving. Yes. Where I have someone come and they have a, like a physical discomfort that’s bothering them and I’ll move the, the physical discomfort from a a six two, A two or a one or even, they can disappear in a matter of about two or three minutes.

And is that hypnosis? To some degree, yes. But what it does is it allows them right there to understand that much more control of their lives. Think and because they have that expectation of being able to take control, even though I wouldn’t say that’s formally hypnosis, it allows ’em to go into the hypnotic session a lot more readily and with a lot more positive feeling.

So, Well, I mean, inside of it. Yeah. You know, even to take techniques that I, I’d referenced, there’s a moment where I saw someone that demoed something and. We were a group of people late night at a convention. And this demonstration I will openly share it, offended two people and the other dozen of us were going, Okay.

That was cool. Uh, where the story goes, and this is only by way of replaying the story, I was one of the dozen or so watching this. Somebody helped someone release a fear, um, and they did it by doing EFT incorrectly. Ah, Which at the end of it, he’s go , which at the end of it he’s explaining. Well, I was leaning into elements of anchoring, compounding suggestion, and dissociating out of the, uh, the negative.

Let’s now do the EFT again properly, but now highlight the anchoring, the compounding, and everything else inside of this. And let’s take a technique that is effective and now make it even more effective by embracing the hypnotic elements that are inside of it. Yeah, I think that’s fine. What now the question is why were two people offended by it?

That they felt it was a, uh, it was putting down the technique, which was not his intention. Mm. That, how dare you take this technique that works and do it incorrectly. You’re, they, they, they thought he was bashing it, but instead he was going, Let’s take this, a technique that already has this level of efficacy and put other layers on top of it to strengthen it.

Absolutely. My, I had a client, I had someone call a few days ago, and, uh, since they’re not a client yet, I won’t mention a name, but they said, You know, I don’t, I’m not sure I believe in the OSIS stuff. I’m not sure this and that. I said, uh, frankly, I don’t care. , I don’t care if you believe in it. The only thing to me, if you walk in and I take a magic wand and hit you with a magic wand and scream UGA booger, and you’re better, I don’t care if you call it hypnosis.

Mm-hmm. , my objective is to improve the quality of life of my client. I don’t care what you call it. That is my goal. Yes. And I don’t have to. I don’t have to feel that I am the world’s best hypnotist. It helps. It helps because it allows you to, you know, feel freer with your clients, but ultimately the goal is to allow my client to feel better.

Anything else that distracts from that I’m just not interested in? Now we showed you a great technique. There are people who will say, you can do EFT without tapping by thinking about the points. Okay. And it’s, it can be just as, Whatever works, do it. That’s all I say. The only thing is don’t do any harm to your client.

Exactly. Yeah. Bringing in that positive intention, bringing in that calibration to the client, and Absolutely. Again, back to that word, allow, getting to that place where we can allow them to create that change for themself. Intention is really important. Absolutely. Any kind of change work. Yeah. Yeah. So then, uh, from the experience of teaching, then moving into the hypnosis now full time, uh, a lot of this audience are people who were perhaps in the startup phases and looking at, uh, you know, increasing that, uh, that that client load.

What are some of the things that you’ve been doing to, to bring people into your. I do demonstrations wherever I can. Yeah. Uh, you call different places like, uh, Rotary Club, they need speakers. I belong to a business, couple business networking groups. Um, not to to plug you specifically, but as I’m sitting here talking to you, I have a couple of your videos in front of me, , using the internet to build your hypnosis business.

Yes. You find people who are really good at what they do and people who’ve already practiced it. You, you, you utilize them. Um, Jason has some really great material, and I’m not just saying that because he’s interviewing me. It’s, it’s absolutely true. And Jason knows that I’ve recommended him to other people, so, Oh, thank you.

Um, but you find people who success have succeeded before, and you copy them and you’re gonna find the people who are most willing to. You know, are the ones who, uh, the ones who are most giving are the ones that want all hypnotists succeed. And the thing you’ve said frequently, and I absolutely agree with, the more hypnotists succeed, the more hypnotists succeed.

You’re not taking money on eye pocket if you succeed in my area. You’re showing the world that hypnosis is a. Excellent modality for changing people and it gets more clients out there. Well, it’s that really opening up that community, I believe at some point, you know, you and I go back about maybe, I think eight or nine years now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that, Which for those who have actually come to my Virginia Hypnosis location, uh, uh, Tim is the reason that I found Paradiso, the lunch buffet, uh, restaurant nearby. So, uh, we can all Thank you, Tim. Uh, we were just there. We were just there two days ago. A big group of us. Yeah, but that opening of that community where here are moments where I’ve sent people your way, here are moments where you’ve sent people my way.

And you know, being that open community in terms of we’re not just this one solo person that’s trying to do everything, this place of learning from each other, collaborating with each other, and building us all up at the same. Absolutely. It’s, you don’t want to, uh, feel like you’re by yourself. You’re alone.

That’s where conventions help and meet up groups like, uh, Northern Virginia Hypnosis, Your group and others really help. It allows you to see other people and, and you can learn from just about anyone. There was a wonderful boxer at the, uh, turn of the 20th century named Joe Kings. They called him the old master and he went into a boxing gym and he, he was recogniz.

Probably the best defensive boxer of his time and even today recognized as maybe one of the best defensive boxes of all time. And somebody said to him, you know, uh, Joe, why, why are you here watching these other guys? There’s nothing they could show you that you, you know, you don’t know. Said, Well, somebody could do something by accident that I’ll be able to learn.

Always being open to learning from other people and not having this over overriding pride that you have the best way to do things, you know, um, you’re all, the more you’re willing to learn, the more you will learn. We talk about expectations being realized if you go on with the expectation of going to a seminar or learning from someone else, or watching hypnosis show and learning something.

Uh, from the person or a different pattern, you’re going to do it. Your mind allows you to do it. So, and I think that’s one of the best things about, uh, you know, meetup groups and uh, and the other hypnotists we know. Yep. So then I’m curious cuz it’s where all of our previous experiences often lead into what we’re currently doing, so, Here’s this bank of time where there you were as the teacher.

What, what did that bring to the actual process of, let’s say there you are with a client? What lessons came from Oh, when I’m teaching? Yeah. What lessons came from teaching, uh, that have now influenced your hypnosis sessions? One to one, would you say? Well just saying when. When you have, What I find interesting is when I have students come in, they’ll ask me questions about the hypnosis as we go along.

As we do the process, they’re asking the same kinds of questions my clients could, could ask. They’re asking me to debunk the myths that they have about hypnosis and make them feel more comfortable about it so they can do it. When they’re asking me questions, it informs me on the kinds of questions my clients may secretly not be asking because they feel like, here’s the professional, he knows, Let me just do what he wants, you know?

Um, so I find the questions my, my students ask me, inform me on the kinds of questions my, my clients may ask, and I found that important also. Uh, I tend to with, with my, um, trainings. I have a training starting at the end of, uh, this month. As a matter of fact, I’ll, I’ll contact different groups, different friends, and have them come in for, uh, practice sessions with them.

And as they do the, uh, the new hypnotists have. They, they get to practice on people. And afterward I can ask my friends, So what did you think? What are the things that were good? What are the things bad? And I can even do it away from my students, so I know exactly how they saw the hypnotic experience. And that also informs me when I’m with my, my own clients.

So yeah. So listening to it on both sides of that equation. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it’s important for hypnotist to be hypnotized by people. Yes. Um, uh, there is a, uh, friend of ours. Uh, Karen Hand. Yes. Um, I was up in Chicago. I was at the Chicago Conference, and I, I keep, I keep fold in the statement that Karen h is my favorite hypnotist, but don’t tell the others

She’s, she’s wonderful. Yeah. And the truth is I don’t, She really is, and. And, uh, I, I tend not to allow myself to go allow myself to go into hypnosis, but I was with a session with Karen and I said, Okay, I’m gonna allow her to hypnotize me. I’m gonna let this happen. We had a really great experience and, uh, it really helped me.

The thing is, it, it reminded me that it had been several months, maybe a few years since I’ve been hypnotized, and as you said, being on both sides really does. I’d share the quick story that this goes back. I’d say this is like 2009, I believe, and here was, uh, someone doing a hypnosis show locally that was supposed to be a high school fundraiser.

And to say a politely, the group did not really promote the show. So the dozen of us in the audience, um, it was one of those programs where there were more, more people on stage than there were in the audience and. You know, I, I think I, I don’t think this person was intimidated, but suddenly he’s called up his volunteers that I’m sitting right there in the middle, smiling, and he actually goes, Really?

He’s like, I, I’m easy. Don’t worry. Um, and that was an experience though, that changed everything for me because we used that phrase that Dave Alman line bypassing critical faculties of the mind. And I, I think sometimes we get caught up in the jargon and saying, That’s just what it is, but how do you unpack that and really explain what it is?

Suddenly I’m on stage and it’s a, it’s a high school program, so everything is clean, everything is appropriate, uh, and I’m doing the things that I’m being suggested to do and then I’m hearing them. So it was this amazing moment for me that even from the student perspective, even going to that learning educational side of it that I was doing these.

And then I was hearing it and I’m going, Oh, wait a minute. Okay. We just keep saying this. Bypassing critical faculties. There it is. There was a, there was a delay, which again, getting into that automatic response with the client that, you know, we want them going, Oh, I just haven’t been thinking about these cigarettes.

Oh, I just got up and I gave the presentation and I felt comfortable. I’m going through these treatments and I’m remaining within my identity and my own comfort in spite of everything that’s going on of just that. Crafting that automatic response and letting the change process really aim for that location, which that wouldn’t have, That epiphany wouldn’t have come if I wasn’t on stage and, um, being made to dance and do silly things, , , I don’t think I would’ve danced.

But yeah, you’re absolutely right. To the best of my abilities, I was to the best of your ability to this. What we’re trying to do is create a new normal. Yes, we’re creating a new normal. Someone I, I tell, I tell people that what we end up doing in life is, um, you remember those old vinyl records where the stylists would fall on the record and we’d hear the sound, but eventually the needle on the record would get a little scratched up.

It wouldn’t work as well. We put a penny on top of the stylist and the groove goes into the record a little bit more, and that leaves an impression. Well, we end up doing what the hypnosis is. We realize that there’s been an impression made and that deep impression is going to be there until we fill it in and we allow something else to take its place.

And that’s essentially what we’re doing. We’re creating that new normal. We’re replacing what, uh, is uncomfortable with something. Well, no, this is, I don’t think I can say that I’m replacing something that they. Gotten comfort from that should be uncomfortable and created a different sort of comfort for them that they can appreciate more.

In terms of smoking, the most important step for a client is when they can walk away and say, I am not a smoker. I’m a non-smoker. Well, cigarettes have nothing to do with me if they come in there sitting in front of me. We have a great session. I say, So how? Well, I’m a smoker, but I don’t feel like I’ll, Nope.

Then we have to work on it. Yes. It’s getting into the mind the new normal, that this is the way it’s going to be and except didn’t be happy with it, you know? Is there a story that comes to mind of working with a client where. You know that that almost identity shift, that real shift into this is the better way of living.

This is just who I am now. There are, there are a few, um, I had, uh, especially when I used the Simpson Protocol, sort of strips things away and gets people back down to, to where they were. And I’ve had clients come out and this is the phrase they use, Um, I feel like myself, more of myself than I’ve ever been.

It’s, uh, there’s a wonderful. Uh, adversity introduces a person to themselves. Oh. I think with the, with the hypnosis I do the better sessions, the client begins to realize who they truly are. Um, you a specific example. Uh, I had a client a few years ago, I will call her Sally, cause I’ve never had a client named Sally.

And she called me two days later and said, I walked in and saw my husband and all the problems. We seem to have disappeared because I found. Why I, I remembered why I really had married him and the core reasons and things that really drew me to be in love with him were always there, and the rest just didn’t seem important.

And our relationships improved incredibly. They were about at the edge of getting a divorce, and their lives have changed since then, and they’re very happy and, uh, They have grandkids now. Uh, they had older children then. So, uh, that was a really nice moment. But that happens relatively frequently. What you’re trying to do is not, um, you’re trying to allow people to realize the potential they have within them to find out exactly where they were and where they can go and enjoy the journey, but you’re not turning them into something there they never have been.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s that, that would be totally in congruent. , right? It’s that, uh, it’s that version 2.0. It’s that new, you know, entity that, yeah, there’s still some elements of it that are there yet, You know, here are the things that are now more refined. Here are the layers that have been sculpted away to continue the metaphor from before.

Yeah, yeah. No, you’re right. But the thing is, uh, we cannot define what happiness is for a client. The client has to define that for themselves. We can’t determine beforehand exactly where the client has to be to give them happiness. Mm-hmm. , we wanna allow them to strip away the things that are preventing them from being happy.

Happy. You know what I mean? Yeah. And in many cases, this is often where the process takes us, even though they’re coming in for some specific issue, it often begins to generalize out to everything. Right? I had a client come in a few weeks ago who wanted to quit smoking. So it’s talking to her and so what’s going on?

And she was telling me about her life and it became very obvious that yes, she was smoking, but that was not the major issue in her life. She was allowing life to, to create. Stress intention for her. And because of this, she found the comfort in smoking. So I eliminated the stress and she’s smoking less now.

She never came in to quit. She hasn’t come in to quit smoking, but she’s cut her smoking down substantially because she finds that as a way, uh, you know, if she smokes, it’s an avoidance behavior. It’s a way of her. Remembering when she was a, you know, with her friends and getting that comfort, she doesn’t need it anymore because the stress is minimized That allows her to move forward.

The funny thing, Jerry Kind had a wonderful, uh, saying, He said, uh, I have clients come in and I do an interview with them, and then I ignore it and I do the hypnosis and let em fix themselves. I miss Jerry. It was a great guy. But that’s, that’s, we’re talking at the conscious level now. Right? Right. And, uh, we are, we’re talking at the top of the iceberg.

I think we both have a picture of an iceberg somewhere in our office. Mm-hmm. . And it’s, the bottom part is a subconscious mind. It’s the major part we get to work with that we’re finding out where are the fissures? Where are all these, you know, tectonic shifts that can go on? How can we fix them? But you do that at the subconscious.

Uh, when you’re talking to clients, you’re trying to get them to the point where they feel relaxed enough to allow that to come out. And, uh, you know, that’s part of the interview process. That’s part of the rapport, that’s part of the pre-talk. Right. And it’s to, you know, acknowledge that conscious part, but also have that ability in the session where they’re the one guiding you to where they need to.

Exactly, exactly. There’s the quote from the comedian Emo Phillips, which I love this one, which is, uh, of emo. Yeah, I know. I’m seeing him next week. Uh, the line is no, two weeks from now, the line is, uh, I used to think the brain was the most intelligent organ in the body, and then I realized who’s telling me that?

So you brought up, uh, you’ve brought up Simpson Protocol here a couple of times, which I’d referenced, uh, when I was doing a lot more guest trainings in the area, actually brought you and, uh, Anez together, uh, twice. And Anez has been on this program twice. What was it about that interactive process? Which for those that, for those that aren’t familiar with it, how would you best explain the Simpson protocol?

Well, the Simpson Protocol, what I say is, uh, you, the hypnotist steps away. You wanna avoid the, the hipness shooting himself in the foot during the session saying something that can throw things off. What you do is you bring the client down to the, uh, to near the Dale State. We, we think of the, we think of a human being.

We define ourselves in a lot of different ways, intellectually, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritual, all the rest of. We all have components of that within us. With the Simpson Protocol, we think of each one of those as being part of a giant field. We call it the Morphic field. We bring people down to the SDA state, and from there we use that as a jumping off point to move them to different sections of the mine where they can do the repair on their own.

We ask them to do the work. We asked them to bring up the experiences that negatively, uh, influence the issue that, that they have now. They might even come with an issue. Um, uh, they may say, My issue is that I, uh, uh, I have a lot of physical pain. Okay. They come in, you do the Simpson Protocol, and another issue may come up because when the subconscious mind is open, it goes to the main problems.

You bring ’em down to the SDA state. I’m kind of jumping around. Sorry about that. This is great. You bring ’em down to the sda. And then you, you take them to these different levels where they can do the work themselves, release the issues, change them, modify them, so it becomes better for them. If you help somebody on the physical plane, it’ll help the emotional plane.

If you help someone on the emotional plane that helps, the physical plane, the mental, the spiritual, the soul, whatever they. Fine for those things and you don’t tell them what they are. You allow them to create it for themselves. They already have ideas within their mind and you’re not gonna interfere with that.

You’re allowing them to do their own work. You get all these different levels of mind working to congruent so they’re not pulling, pushing against each other. And then the major issue will disappear. Um, we, within the Simpson Protocol, you. Chair therapy, you have parts therapy, you have all sorts of different aspects of hypnosis from other things.

But the thing we use is the, the idea we use is a concept of the super conscious mind that’s like the orchestra leader that sees all the different components of the person and allows them to play together in greater harmony and move forward in the best way possible. So I literally will sit there, I ask questions, I allow the clients to answer and you trust the process.

Um, I found it, I find it very effective and clients will come. They don’t even, they’ve never had to say to me, um, when I was 12, somebody, uh, mistreated me. They, uh, attacked me and it really bothered me and it’s been bothered. Bringing that up. Leaves an impression on them. The subconscious mind has those things and you’ve torn away the, the curtain so they, they can see it exactly for what it was and what it wasn’t, and realizing the impact it had on their.

How it created that tectonic plate that’s not shifting properly. But if they realize what it was, they realize they can take the power away from it. They can use it to allow them to move forward the best way they can in life. And the phrase I keep using is, uh, for your greater, greatest, good health and benefit.

Yes, the subconscious mind wants people to be happy. It’s protecting them. Uh, one of Jerry’s things is, uh, that that’s the overriding purpose of the subconscious mind, to protect the person against all danger, real, and imagined. Well, if they get there and everything’s shifted away and they see this event that’s negatively affected them to protect them for their greater good and benefit.

They change it, they modify it, and the subconscious mind’s perfectly capable of doing it. There’s a phrase you used that I thought was really interesting. Um, and uh, you know what they say? They say, uh, uh, intelligence creates genius steel. So I’m stealing it from . Anyway, it’s modeling. You talk about modeling excellence.

Yes. Yeah. I like stealing better. Anyway, the fact is, you talked about how the client has walked into the forest. They found their way in there, but if the client found their way in, they can find their way out as well, and that they’ve been holding the blueprint. They know how to get out. And it would be, uh, presumptuous of me to say that I know exactly the way for them to get out with the Simpson protocol, you don’t have to do that.

You don’t have to predict what’s the best way to treat them, not treat them the best way to, to help them. They help themselves. And it’s really an empowering situation when they, when they emerge from, uh, the Simpson Protocol, which takes a little longer. I mean, I’ll have clients sit in the chair for two or three minutes before they even start to stir two or three minutes more.

They come out, they felt all the changes, and they realize they did it themselves. That’s an empowering moment when they feel free, when they feel as if they’re not carrying all the weight they had before, and they also realized they’d had done it for themselves. That’s, that really allows them to move forward in their.

Not just about the issue, but on other things as well. And I’m actually going back to that, uh, metaphor of in the forest and actually tracking what I believe I may have really been referencing there, which I think this is a quote from George Abbott, who’s kind of the godfather of the American musical. Uh, and the formula, right?

The formula of how to create a musical was act one, introduce the hero. Act two, get him up in a tree. Act three, get ’em a down . That’s it. Yeah. So we’re building that rapport, we’re acknowledging the issue, and then helping them to guide themselves out of it. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Which nowadays you’re, you’re a trainer of the Simpson Protocol too.

Absolutely, Yes. I’m teaching actually as a wonderful conference in St. Louis, uh, the Heartland Hypnosis Conference, April 27th through 29th, and in St. Louis, and two days after, I’ll be teaching the Simpson Protocol in St. Louis. Uh, it’s a great opportunity for people to learn about the Simpson Protocol and also to learn from a lot of other really good hypnotists there.

You gotta tell you, there are classes there I’m gonna be taking, um, they have a, they have four different tracks. They have a business track, uh, clinical track, a metaphysical track, and also a stage hypnosis track. That’s the one I’ll probably look into. So if you’re a hypnotist and you feel you like you have weaknesses in your game, that’s, it’ll be a great conference.

William Mitchell’s doing it. He is. You know, I, I talk about how people have masks and all this, and, uh, they’re, they protect themselves. It’s just a very natural thing. He is one of the people I think is most authentic. So that’s really one of the things that drew me to this particular conference. I’ll be teaching it there and I’ll be doing, uh, the protocol also at the, uh, NGH this year, so.

Excellent. Yeah. And we’ll put links to both of those in the show notes over at Work Smart Hypnosis. And Tim, where can people find more specifically about, Online, um, you go to the FBI Most Wanted list, and, uh oh, oh oh, you mean as the hypnotist? No, um, yes. Yes. There you go. Hypno consult.com. Um, if you go to hypno consult.com.

Outstanding. Well, Tim, it’s been great. Uh, it’s about time, haven’t you, on here. Well, thanks. I really appreciate it, Jason. Yeah. All right. And I’ll see you soon. Take care. Bye bye now.

Jason Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, for leaving your reviews online, sharing this on your social media streams. I’d, uh, share a quick plug here that the Simpson Protocol is something I frequently make use of. With my clients, as I mentioned in, uh, our conversation here with Tim that, uh, I used to do a lot more live local guest trainings where I’d bring in people from out of the area to come in and do a special event.

And to this day, Anez Simpson remains to be the one that I’ve brought in twice. Uh, it was just that phenomenal and people were demanding that we bring her back. And Tim is a phenomenal training trainer of that too. So check out his upcoming trainings. Links over in the show notes, though it’s gonna be at the Heartland Hypnosis Convention, as well as the National Guild of Hypnotist Convention.

And once again, to check out fill up formula.com. This is the two day two headed business training, Dan Kendel and I offering you a live hypnotic, uh, business jam session, as it were in terms of the strategies that both of us have used. To build six figure hypnosis businesses rather than reinvent the wheel.

Instead, use what works. And the cool thing about this format is I have my way of doing things. Dan has his way of doing things, and of course there’s some crossover, but this allows you that mechanism to custom design that business plan for yourself to pick, I wanna go after this market, I wanna work in this specific respect, and to bring in the themes of this conversation to build that collaborative process.

Where you’re building it, the way that you ought to be building that up. So once again, check that out. Fill up formula.com. See you next time. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.