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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 164. Nick Ebdon on hypnotic dialogue. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Change the words that you’re saying to yourself.
And you can easily change your mind. Hey, it’s Jason Lynette welcoming you back to the program. And joining me this week is Nick Den direct from the UK chatting about his history, moving from a career in finance and trading. Then of course into the natural progression from that into hypnosis. And then of course, we’re gonna spend some time talking about the upcoming UK Hypnosis Convention.
You can learn more about Nick by heading over to his website, Nick Abdon. Org links over in the show notes, of course, at work smart hypnosis.com, as well as all the details for the upcoming UK Hypnosis Convention, which is happening November 2nd, third, and fourth. And all the details for that [email protected].
In this conversation, just some of the highlights I wanna present to you before you actually listen to the conversation, of course, are the concepts of working conversationally. With your client, having these moments to respectfully call out mindsets and principles and get that change process in motion even before the hypnotic process officially perceptually begins to say it that way.
So you’re gonna hear some interesting nuances of leveraging a career working with people in. And how that really converts over to nearly everything we do as hypnotist, whether it’s working with fears, working with relationships, working with quitting smoking, losing weight, and how at its core we’re changing that internal dialogue.
And Nick has some incredible stories in terms of how to address that. I share the stage here, of course, to also. Points you over to the UK Hypnosis Convention, which is happening at the Renaissance London Heathrow Hotel. Again, the dates for that are November 2nd, third, and fourth. I’m excited to be there for the first time attending that convention.
Um, other presenters at that of course are gonna be Anthony Jack Bar Komar, Dan Clear. I’m going through the list here. Uh, Eugene. Uh, uh, Fred Jackman, Frederick Mao, Jurgen Remin, uh, looking through the list here, haven’t seen an Ed Simpson live in person for a while. Get to hang out with her. Once again, Melissa tears.
Michael C. Anthony, Sheila Grainger, Roy Hunter. It’s an incredible lineup. Check out that event, and again, it’s at the London Heathrow location of the Renaissance Hotel. Very affordable to travel to, and the rave reviews. That’s why I’m looking forward to being there for the first time myself. For those of you that are local, To London areas.
I’d encourage you to join me at Work Smart Hypnosis Live in London. This is a two day training where we’re gonna be applying the same principles to enhance your sessions in session with clients in terms of getting better hypnotic phenomenon, getting better results with your clients, and how we can take these same hyp.
Principles and apply them to your business. So in a profession of people, let me call it out, who so often are struggling to get new clients and fill up their practices, well it turns out a lot of the same strategies you’re already using. Are the same principles you can use to pack your office and grow your hypnosis business.
Get all the details for that event [email protected] slash uk. Again, that’s June 9th and 10th. It’s coming up very soon. Work smart hypnosis.com/uk or join us all in November at the UK Hypnosis Convention. And with that, let’s jump directly into this fascinating conversation. This is session number 164 Nick Eton on hypnotic dialogue.
Uh, well, uh, those that I know, my story, my background is actually as a, uh, metal trader and, uh, head of the metals desk at Morgan. Obviously a big US investment bank. Um, I was there a number of years trading successfully, but the, the price I paid for that was living in almost permanent stress. Mm-hmm. . Um, and that, that fir my first experience with hypnosis and NLP was when I found myself unable to.
This is going back, must be, you know, 16, 17 years now. Um, unable to sleep. So I, uh, I went on the Yellow Pages at the time and found an n p master practitioner and hypnotherapist, and that was my first experience. Um, they, uh, within a couple of sessions helped me, um, might I say along with, uh, practical, uh, advice as well.
Helped me. Curb, uh, the insomnia that I was only solving at the time by drinking a bottle of port mm-hmm. , which isn’t, isn’t healthy. So they tell me , um, it’s great for, it’s great for wild and vivid dreams, but, um, not for your liver. So, yes, yes. After a couple of sessions, uh, uh, with this NLP lady, I, I found myself, um, uh, sleeping, uh, more routinely.
Um, and that sparked a fascination with a mind, Um, um, and just what was possible and what could be achieved. Um, so I sort of started reading, um, bits and bobs and, but not really committing to anything. And then a number of years later, um, funny, the more successful I’ve got, the more stressed I got. Mm-hmm.
which, which I’m sure. Most of your listeners would’ve heard a thousand times, especially the practicing therapists and coaches. So, um, I found myself, uh, suffering from really bad stress. Ended up making a complete ask of myself in the dealing room, breaking down tears, everything. Um, and then getting signed off, um, for eight weeks, couple of months, something like that.
Um, seeing a cbt, the. And, and then subsequently a hypnotherapist and, and coach on the side. The firm was very supportive at the time, and it, it sort of afforded me a bit of time and space to start exploring this stuff. Read a couple of fantastic books. Uh, human givens, obviously written by a couple of hypnotherapist.
Um, and, um, after that I sort of started reevaluating my life what I wanted to. Um, when I, when I went back to Morgan Stanley, uh, because I was doing this additional reading and researching and stuff and, and the sort of transformation that I had made in myself, I started helping a number of people, uh, within the bank, uh, who were overcoming similar issues.
And I kind of just got a bit of a, uh, bug for it. And I, I ended up studying, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy first, and then subsequently, um, hypnotherapy. And, um, and, and then sort of, uh, kept, kept a, a double life going. So I was trade in and advise. I was a trade in consultant. I left Morgan Stanley after that.
Um, after, after learning all this much more interest in stuff, um, I decided that my career at the time had come as far as it had. Um, and I wanted to explore helping other people. Um, I’m sure you know Jason, a lots of people doing our work come from having experienced it on the other side of the desk.
Yeah. And I’d love to rewind that back for a moment in terms of, you know, here’s this experience where there you were as the client, and how, how quickly did that shift occur for you? I know you said a nu a number of sessions yet. What was part of that experience of getting that foot in the door? Just on the personal side?
Um, You mean? Sorry. Uh, you mean how, when did I notice that there was that real change? Yes. Um, you know what, there was a, there was probably a number of stages, um, um, along the way that. I, I, I realized, well, first of all, it, it dawned on me very quickly that from a personal perspective, I had head of a lot of work to do.
Mm-hmm. , uh, the way I framed the world around me, the relationships I had with people, both on a personal level, on a family level, on, I was looking at it from only one perspective. Um, the way I was talking to myself, I was only talking, uh, from a very rigid perspective. Um, and when I started to explore that, which helped with, um, a wonderful, uh, cognitive therapist in Harley Street, just literally challenging everything I said, yes.
And, and not just snap but also, and, and something that stuck with me. Mine were, uh, making me very aware of emotionally where I was when I was saying it as well. Right, right. Which, which is a wonderful of if you’ve got that awareness in, in your toolbox, you can help people. Just, just knowing that, just knowing that when people are emotional and their, uh, and their emotions are aroused, they’re giving themselves some really powerful hypnotic suggestions.
Um, and, and it was that realization that I thought, Do you know what? Not? Not only have I been doing things. I haven’t been doing things wrong for, for any bad reason or anything, but I have been doing things wrong, seeing things wrong, um, responding in a wrong way. But I also that realization that, do you know what, If I can control the emotional side of stuff, um, I, I can actually have a lot more choice, personal choice, how I respond in any situation.
And to highlight that, part of that was changing your own, your own dialogue in terms of how you were talking about. . Yeah. Well first of all, it’s actually controlled in the emotion. Yes. Um, you know, that was something as well. I know, I know I’ve mentioned it before, another podcast, the human given book. I don’t agree with everything in there, but one of the things he said is, if you can control the emotion first or, or redirect the emotion, then that internal dialogue takes on a whole new level.
Um, and, and you, and you’ve got a whole new level of control over. When I work with people, especially up here in the city, you, you know, I want to hear how they’re talking to themselves and, and sometimes I have to, I have to, uh, stimulate that emotional level. Make ’em angry, make them pissed off, sorry, make annoyed, um, um, what have you, because you, you’ll notice that internal dialogue does actually change.
You know, we, we, we interface with people and we talk in one. And we talk to ourselves sometimes quite differently. So, so it was at a way in, in where my notes had changed in myself was, was that that ability to change that internal dialogue. Right. And I mean, I’d share a quick anecdote here of here’s someone I was working with recently that it was all of these situations involving their, their ex.
And six years after divorce, he’s still referring to her as his. And, and as soon as we got that language to start to shift, you know, suddenly now he goes, Oh, I was in this, you know, meeting that we had, there was still some business that was going on. You know, I was in this meeting and suddenly it’s like, Oh wait, that’s, that’s my ex-wife.
Okay. Yeah, we’re not married anymore. And he goes, surprisingly, just by changing those labels, it was no longer that issue. Or, I mean this, this sort of learned helplessness pattern where they’re still placing the label of the problem on themselves even when they’re, they’re beyond it. Is that, is that kind of the theme of where you’re going with this?
Oh yeah. I mean, I, I had, I mean, just for the example where I was at that time when I was suffering from stress, I had labeled for everybody, and, and I only looked for evidence and behaviors and dialogue that supported the label that I’d given them. Mm-hmm. . Um, and, and then that fueled my own internal dialogue about how unfair they were being, how reasonable they been, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I think, I think labels are very important. I, I think how you label people. Is very important. You know, you know that internal language for me is everything. Yeah. I think so many. I think the focus now in our profession is far too much on, um, new fad techniques. Mm-hmm. , rather than educating and empowering people that if they’ve just got that certain amount of control over how they talk to themselves in any situ.
They are to, to point an LP to the most flexible element in any room. Um, do you find there’s a, there’s a finesse in terms of how to add that into the process, because let’s put that into the context of they’re coming to somebody who is specifically the hypnotist. And now, yes, we know the entire process is hypnosis.
Yet sometimes from the client perspective, it’s the expectation of now my eyes are closed. Now we’re actually doing the work, which, which does put us at a huge advantage in terms of how suggestible we can turn the process into the intake. You know, time in terms of how we talk about what’s gonna happen.
But do you find there’s any finesses in terms of how to do that? Let’s call it out conscious reprogramming before going into that subconscious. Even though we know it’s all subconscious work. Mm. Um, well, I mean, I’ll use an examples of, of the people that I see up uptown. So, so the, the most lucrative and the main core of my business is referrals from traders and brokers and this and the other
Um, because of my background, I, I can, I, I’ve already. Um, wander over a little bit because of what I’ve achieved in my previous career. Yes. But, um, to get them to understand that dialogue, it does. Some people, some people you can just hit over the head and say, You’re, you know, you’re talking bs. Um, and, and that challenge is enough, is enough to confuse him, stop him, and then you can say, And here’s.
Um, and, and you can draw on past experiences. You can draw on your own experiences, um, with other people. You, you, you know, with that eyes shut, as you mentioned, you then put them into a situation. So invariably, well, I think variably, I’m probably gonna contradict myself here, but, um, let’s just say it’s a trader and he’s got these six screens in front.
Uh, and I’ll get him to imagine himself there and everything’s going wrong and he’s been bombarded, his senses are being bombarded with all this information. Um, I want then him to relay some of that internal dialogue that he would be experiencing in that situation. And, and do you know what, when, when you do it enough with people, you can tell the difference between someone telling you.
They think you want to hear. Yes. And, and someone actually, um, telling you what they would say to themselves in that situation. And, um, you’ve gotta be confident enough to challenge it. That’s why, you know, if, if there’s nothing wrong with nicheing, for instance, like I niche mainly, um, with, uh, traders or people suffer from acute stress or depression, this, that, the other, because I’m familiar with the dialogue, I’m familiar with the, the self lies that people talk cause I’ve heard ’em.
I’ve also got the experience of knowing that what they’re telling you doesn’t fit in that environment with what they’re saying. They’re experiencing them. So, so then there’s a little for this, you can challenge it in a subtle way where, no, go back again. And this is happening in this market, this happening, this mark.
Now tell me what you’re really think, um, and what, what you are really thinking, and then what you’re really saying to. Um, and, and I know a lot of hypnotists don’t like, um, mentioning cognitive therapists, but if you, if you look at some of the classic cognitive errors of thinking, you can invariably tick off a few of them when a person sat in that situation.
Um, you know, and they’ll make very black and white statements, or they’ll start catastrophizing or what have you in those, um, Situations. And, and, and like I say, sometimes I can, I, I’m confident enough in my own ability that I can, uh, tell people to shut up and tell the truth. Yeah. But also as well, sometimes you have to, you have to go back to situations and, and say what now?
Look at for a slightly different way. And that’s a kind of general way of saying, I didn’t believe what you’ve told me the first time. Let’s go back there and find out what you’re really saying to. Well, it’s a balance too of, I’ve found, you know, one of the phrases that would often work it’s way, if we’re in that sort of, you know, restructuring language mindset of just using the phrase of, and of course, this is what we’re going to strengthen during the session today.
So giving it that little bit of a frame that, you know, Yes, we’re educating in that moment. Yes, we’re guiding in a new direction. You fold in that little bit of a frame of, and this is what we’re also going to strengthen as part of the work. And I mean, yes, that’s what we’re gonna do as part of the hypnotic session.
What are, I’m curious to ask you this, what are some of those tendencies that pop up when working with those traders? What are some of those patterns that they’re most often looking to overcome? Well, you know what, You know, I just mentioned I was gonna co. Myself, mm-hmm. . Um, what I found working with people, well, working with people in the city, um, in general, you know, I, I do see a lot of traders.
I do see a lot of brokers, but I also see a lot of corporate sales staff, so, uh, people who aren’t brokers, but work for banks and sort of hedge funds and, and, and big cultural organizations. I also see a lot of senior management and generally the work isn’t always the. It can be their relationships. You know, when one of the prices you pay when you’re very
uh, as you know, the average Joe on the street, you might be working 78 hour weeks. Um, and that puts strain on personal relationships, on family dynamics and stuff like that. So, um, You know, even though a a, a trader will be telling me it’s all about him losing money. It’s all about, um, the pressure from the boss to make money.
It’s all about the competitive guy next door who’s gunning for his job. It’s all about how the markets hate him, and he’s uck his man in the whole wide world, and it’s everyone else’s fault when you start peeling it back, Well, do you know what? He actually was trading crap that day because he’d had a, a fourth hour with his misses in a fort.
Um, and all these things, you know, are, are, are interwoven. Um, most I I’d say I’d love, do you know what, I’d love to go back and actually get a real hard number, but so much of when people come in with what they would call trade in or stress issues is actually relationship issues. Mm-hmm. and, and, and they’re not mutually exclusive either, but.
To divert away from the presenting problem. I think he’s, You all good Rasmussin who says, you know, he never takes the initial frame when, when a client comes in and, And I think, I think that’s a good attitude to have. Yeah. I share the, yeah, the brief anecdote that there’s a man who came into my office and his whole.
He was actually involved with trading and his whole strategy was that on a big news day for, you know, one of the bigger stocks, he would ride that stock day trading it in and out several times, and maybe it’s an Apple release day and the stock may have realized a four or 5% gain, but the way he would track everything and buy it, sell it, buy it, sell it, he’d realize about three or four times that percentage and suddenly his strategy was slip.
and he’s explaining, you know, I’m second guessing myself, I’m doubting myself and I’m losing everything even though the stock has gone up. And I loved him for the fact that he leaned in and he smiles and he goes, And you and I know this has nothing to do with stocks. Like, Thank you. Yeah. Know was, um, there was a guy who came to see me, this is a number of years ago now, and, um, He, he, he tried to tell me he was a trader and, and I asked for his background and, and because he, because it was a referral of a referral, he, he hadn’t looked into my background at all and he just come because someone else had said, You need to go and see this boy.
So he popped along, he starts talking at me and lecturing me about trading. Um, and he’d actually come because he wasn’t making. And, and one of the very first opening gambits that he said when he was talking to me was, I’ve got this foul proof trading system. And I laughed at him. I said, A foul proof trading system where you can’t make money.
I said, It sounds brilliant. Aren’t you a billionaire? And he, and he kind of got shitty with me and, and was like, um, who are you? To, to judge. So I sort of played along with it and I was like, Well, let’s just hear this trading system. And, and he tried to explain it and I, I’ve gotta be honest with you, I was underwhelmed.
Mm-hmm. to say the least. Um, and I, and, um, I said to him, Why aren’t you using it if you know, if it is this? And, and I said, What do you wanna be? Or what do you wanna do? Or, you know, he said, I wanna make my mark on the world. And I know that if people start using this trading, That, um, I could become a millionaire and, and, and I’m not being funny.
I started having a little gig at his expense again and I said, But you can’t sell it cause he doesn’t make any money. Um, and then he, and, and then he said basically, which, you know, I, I don’t mind pushing a few buttons to, to reveal what’s really going on with people. He then said, Oh, I, you know, the system works, but I over.
and I wasn’t prepared to let it go. I said, Well, if it works, you wouldn’t have to over trade. Mm-hmm. , he said, Well then I’m getting impatient. Um, I said, But you can’t sell it if it’s a system that requires patience. So, so anyway, he, he, he ended up getting really, really angry with me. And basically he said, Who the f for you?
Um, to criticize my, um, you know, my trading strategies and this, that, and the other. And I said, Well, firstly, Anyone who says that they’ve got a strategy, uh, that is gonna make rich and and notorious in their financial markets, but doesn’t make money if they can sell that you should be in sales, not in trading.
Um, I said, But um, me tell you about my past experience and blah, blah, blah. Said, and then you got all a little humble . Um, and, and, and, and there was just this switch where he basically said, Look, I’m divorce. I got divorced because I lost all my in-laws money, uh, speculating. Uh, I’ve had foul career in, in this bank and this bank and this bank.
Um, I’m now lonely because I’m embarrassed that I’m a failure, that I’ve, I alienating myself from my friends and this and the other. And this goes back to this internal, you know, this internal. Label and his internal, uh, soundbite that anyone can give themselves in, in a negative situation. He started believing his own hype.
Mm-hmm. that, that he, that even though all the evidence was there to the contrary, he convinced himself so much that even in times of being completely wrong, that he was right. That he believed it, and, and, and it, and it allowed him to carry on this destructive course that cost him a marriage. Haven’t actually cost him.
His friends, his friends haven’t dropped him. He dropped him out, embarrass them. Um, and, and you know what? You can do all the therapy in the world, but someone like that is not gonna be fixed with a snap of the fingers. Um, I said to him, The first thing you need to do is go and reconnect with your friends.
Because you are not even, whatever we do is only gonna be temporary if you’ve got no one there to share it with. Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, I, I still believe that some of the best therapy is chatting to a good friend or being in the right environment. Said, and now you are alienating yourself and isolating yourself.
Um, we’ll work on the other stuff I said, because then you’re gonna be in a better frame of mind to accept. When I say to you, that isn’t a good system, you’re not gonna get. Well, I mean at its core to look at this story, there’s something inside of the story that’s probably a part in some way. Just to really oversimplify everything is kind of what brings anybody into a hypnotic experience that here they are stuck in a pattern where on some level of the mind they’ve convinced themselves.
This works for me. Mm. And yet it’s that realization that this doesn’t work for me. So the one who’s been smoking cigarettes 30 years, because, well, that’s what relaxes me. That’s what helps me to unwind and to reach that place of the smack of reality that no, it’s not, uh, here I am in this, you know, situation speaking.
And while it may not be a conscious decision to feel fearful and anxious, you know, there’s some way that’s protecting them. So we’re taking something that in some way, Perceived to have worked at one point and then kind of calling that out in a respectful way and then introducing that new pattern.
That’s basically the pattern behind so much of all of this. Yeah, And, and do you know what I mean? You mentioned, you know, the traders that come to see you, they, they make him mistakes and, and, and it’s almost like they’ve got no control over stopping them because like I say, one particular time it worked.
Or what have you. And, and it’s that, it’s that whole ability to imagine yourself, you know, you can imagine yourself, and it can be extremely positive and beneficial. It can be extremely damaging. But we are working with the scope of the imagination. You know, our skills are how we can get a client to utilize that imagination positively.
Um, because like you say, they’ve, they’ve utilized it in a very damaging. This guy imagined himself on a yacht, probably with a load of bikini cla base around him. He’s probably got a picture of Leo de Caprio in Wolf Wall Street. You beat me to the reference on, on his bedroom seat. And that imagining himself in that position, it’s cost him probably the best woman he’s ever met, probably overly generous in-laws that he’s not gonna find again.
And, and, and it was costing him, his friends and his San. Because he couldn’t shake imagining himself in that situation. And it was, it was running rough, rough over everything. Something that plays itself in city time and time again. You know, the relationships, these people imagining themselves as better and bigger than they actually.
I think there’s nothing wrong with a little bit of interjecting humility into all your clients, build up confidence, build up self-esteem, but also have a little bit of humility cuz they’re imagine themselves in a totally cockeyed and skewed way. And, and, and it just plays out in how they trade, how they talk to their clients and how they talk to their coworkers.
And I talked to, uh, people around them. So, so being brave enough to sometimes prick that image, that bubble that they’ve built, um, and tear it down and get to build a, a more constructive and beneficial one. Um, you know, so I, I think the problem with a lot of hypnotherapist is, is that they’re prepared to accept the image that the client thinks they want or, or turns up with and presents with.
Because they’re too technique driven. They’re not actually listening to what that client’s seeing, what that client’s experiencing, and, and sometimes, especially in the case of people out in the city, how they deleted themselves. Well, I mean, it also brings to mind that, you know, the shifting of rapport in a certain direction.
It’s not just blindly building rapport because we’ve learned these strategies in our NLP trainings and you know, this is how we get the person to know, like, and trust us. It’s that ability that sometimes in a slightly respectful, confrontational way, do you like all the modifiers on that in a slightly respectful modifying, you know, confrontation away to call something out.
It doesn’t have to be that phrase, which is kind of the hack way of doing it now, of, Well, how’s that working out for you? You know? But to recognize that, you know, they may be again, stuck in that old story, which we’re helping them to dissociate out of and change the pictures in the mind, change the dialogue, change the language, change the thinking, and again, to interrupt it to, to give that pattern interrupt rather than, Oh, okay, good.
Close your eyes and all positive.
Do you know what? But unfortunately, I think a lot of H therapists just go straight into the hypnotherapy script. Mm-hmm. and, and they don’t, that’s not even a consideration from, you know, I’ve got these big bushy eyebrows, so I keep well groomed, but I use them effectively when someone’s something that I don’t believe they’ll pop up, you know, like a baboon that’s seen a threat and I’m like, really?
That, you know, that got that sort. I don’t believe anything you just told me, sort of expression on my face. Um, and, and that’s really when the work begins. Mm-hmm. , you know, um, you can, you can do so much conversationally, but probably not how you’re taught to do hypnosis conversationally. But it’s actually more about being aware of when that internal dialogue’s firing off.
When people are confused, when they’re more suggestible, uh, when they’re actually looking. Uh, for a space to be filled with a suggestion and, and stuff like that. And, and it’s great to see and, and I’ve kind been forced to teach myself in some respects because my background works for and against me. So I’ve given an example of where it works for me, where, where some young up starts telling me how to trade and I can say to him, Well, I was head of, uh, metals risk, uh, uh, Morgan Stanley.
In 2010 and then like, oh, oh, but . But also as well, when people come for me as a referral, when I was first up in the city, I’d say, You know, I’m a hypnotherapist and you, I’d get a few people that I, I knew or knew of people I knew and they’d scoff and they’d expect me to go through the rituals and they’d expect me to do this and do that.
And, and it was kind of, um, living me to a, you know, some people just don’t, don’t buy into it, and you have to accept. But if you’re flexible enough where you can sit there and, and start going to work as soon as you’re talking, um, one, and then when you’ve got that rapport. And rapport doesn’t have to be liking each other, you know, I think that’s another mistake people make.
It doesn’t have to be sitting there picking your nose when they pick their nose, crossing their legs and they cross their, It doesn’t have to be liking the same things talking the same way. This, that now it just has to be making a connection where what you are saying is gonna get through. Um, and, you know, some I can have a conversation with sometimes and, uh, with someone and sometimes that conversation has to go down different route than someone else.
So, so I invariably, uh, don’t use, uh, the word hypnosis that much anymore. So what are you using instead? Uh, uh, I’ll use results coaching or consulting, but when I’m actually talking to, Now, where was I? I used to long with everyone else would, would, you know, say, Right, let’s do it now. Um, and, and, and when I first started out, go through the checklist for their permission.
Do this, do that. Is it okay? Blah, blah, blah. I’ve been talking to someone. Look, just tell me, just shut your eyes a minute. Just consider this or just imagine this or put yourself in this situation. Um, and then be there. And as you know, Jason, as. A lot of times you’re there, but their eyes are still open, They’re still talking to you.
Um, but you know that what you are saying is having a slightly different effect on them than when they first walked in the room. And, and occasionally they’re just walk in the room and they’re there anyway. Mouth’s half a gate, , and, and you can start firing in positive suggestions straight away. But, um, Yeah.
Um, I don’t, I’m not ashamed to say that I don’t use the word hypnosis. I use hypnosis, but I don’t use the word hypnosis half as much as I used to. Yeah. I mean, I found a similar through line that I’m still using the word, but somehow to use the word hypnotic, applied to coaching. . Uh, so it’s hypnotic coaching.
They can hear that there’s a bit of a delineation that yes, there’s a portion of, close your eyes, let’s do the work. Um, and, but at the same time, calling out these moments conversationally up. Yeah. This is already in process. This is already in motion. Hmm. I think it, well, I think if you hang on the hypnotherapy element or the hypnosis element too much, you miss the fact that some people come into you.
Need nothing more than a bit common sense. Mm-hmm. , um, and, uh, and some practical applications to correct their problems. Not they, they don’t have to be in a trance. Now, now, whether you still have to work with them, for them to buy the suggestions that you give them, you know, that’s a whole conversation in itself.
But, um, you know, I, um, I think that the first convention. I foolishly thought that I could present my own hour. Um, and, and I’ve done this very condensed, uh, thing about trade in a subconscious, which was a training thing I did about working with traders. And one of the key things I said, there was not every person that comes to see you needs therapy.
Um, and, and not everyone that comes to see you is gonna need, um, hypnosis mm-hmm. or hypnosis as they know it, or you know it, or, or, or have you sometimes. It can just be a, a, it can be an honest chat. Sometimes it can just be, uh, the ability to unload and then once they’ve unloaded for, for, um, they then become more suggestible anyway.
Um, and sometimes it’s just, why don’t you do this? Why don’t you do that? Um, you know, I, I think a, a hypnotist has to be able to step back and, and, and, Get out of his own way sometimes where, where he doesn’t have to, he doesn’t have to conduct a hypnosis session with every client that he. Well, I mean to look at it.
Does that make sense? It does make sense. I’m flashing to a story of a woman I worked with that the whole issue was early osteoporosis and the doctor recommending she exercise and that involved them negotiating that she would swim regularly and she’s got the diet in check. She’s got everything else in order and yet she hasn’t been exercising.
And it was a funny experience cuz we had met together at this 0.3 times. And to find out it was a conscious divide that was really keeping her back from swimming. Uh, not fear of water or something that we would expect as the hypnotist, but no, she didn’t have a place to go swimming. The, the, the, the nuts and bolts of where are you going to go?
Um, was just this obvious question I never thought to ask. And you know, the, the wonders of being the slight techno geek. I’m going, Okay, well come sit by my computer and let’s find you somewhere. And she signs up for a Y M C, a location near her home from my office. Computer prints out her guest pass. And I’ve kept up with this woman.
She’s swimming regularly like three or four times a week now. So it was a strategy issue. It was a, I, I gotta call out a bit of a common sense issue of, you know, the old Jo joke about my dog speaks Well, he is not saying anything. Yeah. But he doesn’t have anything to say that there has to be some bit of conscious thing, which then we can take that action Hypnotically.
Now that you’ve got the place to swim, you’re gonna be doing this now as you’re there in the water, you’ll be noticing that the same way as you know, many people with the stop smoking process would hinge it off of, Now that you’ve thrown off out those cigarettes, now that you’re eating in this specific way to branch the hypnotic suggestions off of the action yet, you know, to put that in motion first, I think is often necessary to get the change actually happening.
Oh, absolutely. You know, I love that bit you just said about. Having a client there and just cranking open the computer. Mm-hmm. , you know, I think some people, sometimes a therapy room can be such a sterile environment. So they’re in the chair, you are in your chair, The wows are singing, humming their song background.
Um, you know, and which is a bad choice when they’ve got the fear of whales, but go on. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, but, um, You know, I love the idea of just come on in, have a look at this. You know, when people, when you depress people or people are in a ru and I think it was, um, uh, Jordan B. Peterson, um, he recently said, you know, if, if you haven’t got a job, get a job, even if it’s not the job that you wanna do.
Um, and, and it kind of really. It hit a point with me because it reminded me of a client, uh, where he said, You know, there’s nothing out there. When I was talking about getting a job, this was some time ago now. And I said, What do you mean there’s nothing out there? What do you wanna do? I dunno. And I was like, Well, let’s do something.
And I, I, I, you know, I opened the computer. and it was clear that he hadn’t even tried to look at a job, but he’d made the statement, There’s nothing out there. And this goes back to that internal thing. We don’t know how powerful that statement is, but it could be powerful enough to actually, that he believes on every fundamental level, there is nothing out there for you.
Mm-hmm. . So, so actually get that, you know, that proactive element of, or let’s have a. Um, and I gotta be honest with you, the first thought was absolutely terrible. I even found myself going, Oh, you don’t wanna do that. You don’t wanna do that. But, um, it was just the action of well do it. Have a look, you know, be proactive.
And, and then he subsequently did go home and start looking. Um, but you, you know, sometimes you just have to do that stuff. Mm-hmm. , Um, And you know, that’s a wider thing about depress people and busy, but you know, these are, again, this is why I like working with people like that. Some of, some of the internal dialogue that people have is just incredible depress people and jealous people tell themselves the most amazing things sometimes and, and they just believe it.
Um, yeah, just fascinating. Again, it goes back to their imagination. They believe some of that crap to be absolutely. There’s, uh, yeah, there’s the experience of taking, working with clients and changing some of the dialogue. I’m curious to hear sort of the lineage of leveraging the career as the person in, in finance and trading, then discovering hypnosis, moving into that, which then leads us to, of course, the UK Hypnosis Convention.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. What’s, what’s the origin story behind? Um, well, if you’re a fan of the UK OFP Convention, I’ll take all credit for it. , If you are not, then blame Hans Woody Whip . Uh, from, from Omni. Um, it actually started, um, Oh God, I’m getting old now. You know, you, you know, you’re older. You just lose track of years.
So I think, Oh, I’ll tell you when it was, we was, I was, um, over with training with the Lake Jerry Kind. And I was having a beer with Hans and he was telling me about hypno Congress in um, Zurich. And uh, he said, Why don’t you do say in, uh, London and, Cause I was saying, you know, the only thing he had in London that was all association based.
So, you know, um, there were these annual, um, organizational meetings, but there was nothing really truly in. Um, of, of any scope. There used to be, there used to be something fantastical change phenomena that, um, anti Jack used to do. Um, and, and he’d get, uh, a number of speakers together. And, and I, I said to, I said to um, Hans, I said, Well, if an Anthony, he’s not doing one this year, I’ll do it, but there’s no point doing one if, if change phenomenon is gonna happen again.
Um, which, so it would’ve been 2016. And as, as luck would have it. And, and he wasn’t doing one. Um, so I said, Oh, let’s just give it a go. So we, so I, um, I, you know, I used the very similar format, well, very similar to the nga, really just multitrack. Um, and, um, and Hands had replicated it to a certain degree over in Zurich.
Um, and I said, Well, let’s just use that and see how it goes. And, um, It, it got a modest, It got modest. What is that? Modest footfall the first year, but great feedback. Great response. Um, I managed to, uh, lie and bluff my way into getting a load of great presenters. . Um, and, uh, they believed it or they left it up.
Um, bribed a few, threatened a few others, and, and managed to get quite a good crop of, uh, speakers. And then it was a success. So obviously I, I had to do it for a second year to make better money that I’d spent bribe in the first lot to turn up. Um, and the, the following year, last year, um, it was really successful.
It was just, it was as good as I could have wanted it to go in the second year. Um, I’ve tried to do, cause I’m independent. I used to, I used to be a trainer for the NG normally, and, and I thought, you know, to, to really sell it properly and, and for own personal reasons as well. I decided that I wouldn’t even be training.
So, so I thought one of, one of the selling points of the UK H convention is apart from obviously if I sell out, um, I’ve got nothing to gain from it. Um, it was, it was done. Putting something on in the UK that was being replicated with hypno thoughts in the NG and h Congress around the world. But, um, the UK didn’t really have, um, and, and, and the, the hypnosis community was incredibly supportive.
They bought into it, uh, from the get go. Um, and I think he’s got, I think he’s got his own atmosphere.
Yeah. And the, the details for the convention, of course, are [email protected]. Um, share a little bit more about the event this year, which is, uh, November 2nd through fourth. Yep. So, so I, so every year, one year, I’ve, I’ve tried to listen to the feedback, so, so this year, as I did in last year, I’ll listen to the feedback for those in attendance.
Or those are intending to attend, but obviously mainly those in attendance. So they could, uh, give me as much constructive criticism as, as I needed to improve. Um, this year after, after getting feedback, we’ve added an additional day. So like you say, it starts on the second. So it’s Friday, Saturday, and the Sunday.
We’re previously, previously, last two years, it was two days. Obviously, adding on that additional day has given us scope to add on additional speaker. Um, so we, we kind of were happy that three tracks worked, you know, some of the bigger conventions. The first time I, you wouldn’t remember the first time I met you.
I think it was 2014. Mm-hmm. , Uh, I was just this lowly guy, , uh, milling around, um, uh, in the NJ convention in uh, Malborough. And, um, I, I did notice that the problem I then was too much choice, um, which is a good problem to have, but yeah, still a problem. It’s a nice problem to have, but it’s still a problem.
Yeah, so, so we, I think we had four tracks in the first year and people, the general consensus was, it was too much choice. So, so we got it down to three last year and people tended to be happy with that. Um, so we, we stuck with three, but obviously cuz we got the additional day, we was able to, A number of presenters.
So we’ve got 55 presenters this year as opposed to the, the, the 40 we had last year. Um, we will on the, on the Friday evening, we will be doing something with Adam. He’ll be, he’ll be doing another panel where people from around the world will, uh, I think, you know, you’re good friend with Frederick Mal right here?
Yes. He, he be one of them. Fred, Jack, Alberto. Um, Adam’s fickle. I’m, I’m sure if you offered him a slot on the podcast, he’d probably throw you in there. He’s, he’s, he’s shameless like that. I still need to get him on mine. I’ve bet. On his. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, he’s doing a, he’s doing a panel thing on the Friday night.
Then hopefully I have a little bit music after that. You know, being in the uk one of the biggest complaints feedback I got was that the bar wasn’t open 24 hours. , we, we take our work seriously here in the uk so, so it is probably gonna be a little messier, but it’s also, we’re trying to make it a little bit more professional as well to give it a bit balance.
So we’re doing, we’re doing, um, a bit more of a, a conservative panel q and a on the Friday night that Adams are gonna be taken care of and hosting. And doing it for his own hypnosis weekly thing. Um, on the Saturday night, we got a list of tears, um, doing the keynote, uh, uh, doing the keynote speech, should I say.
One of the, one of the bits of feedback that I, you know, I was very aware of was that it was a disproportionate amount of, um, men mouth speakers to women. Um, And so I was very mindful that I, I, the, I think the split now is something like 53 to 47%, um, which still isn’t enough for some people, unfortunately.
But, um, the problem is it’s just there’s a lot more mal applicants. Mm-hmm. . So, so as much as I’m trying to make the numbers totally, even, I’m, I’m still having to, um, reject. You know, three male applicants to every one female applicant. So I’ve, I’ve been very mindful that, that we needed to make it more even.
Yeah. And I’m curious to ask, what would you say is unique about this event? Um, well, I, I think one of the things is, I’m not expecting anything of anyone there. So you know, I’m not, I will proudly deliver that for no . Um, yeah, I have such low expectations. That’s what makes it No, what I mean is that there’s no one has to pay me a registration fee.
It’s not open to any membership of any organization I have because there is no organization affiliated with it. I, I’m not selling my own training cause I don’t offer. Um, and, and I think that actually frees people up to express themselves a little bit. It does, yes. More freely, You know, this isn’t a criticism, but because Omni, for instance, have a, have a huge stamp in places like Berlin, Andrich, and that invariably is very omni heavy.
So, so, and, and that kind of conducts the tone of the convers. That, that there isn’t, uh, enough challenge or, or diverse opinion there, for instance, whereas the uk um, there, there is no organizational bias at all. Um, and, and so that can be as critical as they like to, to me, I, I’m as open as much to constructive criticism because it’s very organic.
You know, anyone who attends, contributing their feedback to how the next convention’s gonna be. Um, The atmosphere there is great. Like I said, from the, from the start, the, the presenters really embraced the, the idea and the ethos of the convention that during the day they, they make a point. It, its not that big as well.
So it’s more accessible, should we say, than uh, a hyno thoughts on an ngh, which is spread around a larger space. So, So this year I’m gonna cap it again so that every presenter is accessible. Mm-hmm. , so that in between presentations people get to mingle with everyone. Excellent. Yeah. So where, where could people find more about the event?
So, so pretty much, uh, we got the Facebook group as well, which is UK convention. Um, And, and, and the website’s got everything you need to know. And that includes, um, the four pre-convention and four post-convention classes, um, that we are running as well. And, and, and, and we, you know, again, listening to feedback, we, we tried to, we moved it one so we could expand its wise, but I dunno, the last time you’ve been to London, Uh, it was 1990.
Um, but, uh, . So the, the dollar’s stronger now. Yes. Anyway, so, so for your, for your US listeners is literally like popping down the road. Mm-hmm. , but we’ve even got, you know, the hotel that we are doing in this year, the Renaissance Hotel in Heathrow is half the cost hotel room wise than the one in Canary Wolff in London.
So, so for, so. You know, we wanted to make it as accessible as possible from a, from a commute in, from a traveling and from a cost perspective. Um, so yeah, UK convention.net or Code uk. Um, and you can find all the information you need. You can, you can email info uk convention net of any questions you have and, um, I’ll try and answer ’em in a speedy fashion.
Um, and, uh, you are, you are over as well, aren’t you, Jason, before then? Yeah, I’m gonna be there, uh, in June, uh, for work Smart Hypnosis live in London, which I’m doing, uh, June 9th and 10th. And then, uh, heading back over to be there for the convention too. Fantastic. So I’ll try and pop up and, and grab you for a beer then.
You might wanna, you’re doing it with Carl, are you? You might wanna escape for a while, . You might, you might have been all cold out by then. It’s, it’s a bit of a tight schedule, but we’ll see, see what we can do. He, he lets me go crash these things. Nice. Yeah. Um, he’s, he’s always good. He’s let me go crash a couple of things before so I might sit in at the back Yeah.
For the last hour, just so I can buy you a beer. There you go. . Well, Nick, it’s been awesome having you on. Thanks for having me, Jason.
Jason, Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for joining me on this program and looking forward to seeing you soon over in the United Kingdom. First option, of course would be, The Work Smart Hypnosis Live in London Course, which is happening June 9th and 10th. All the details [email protected] slash uk or join all of us, the 60 plus of us who are gonna be over at the UK Hypnosis Convention.
Of course, the attendance is gonna be higher than that, but that’s the number of speakers you’re gonna have there along with Nick, myself, and many others. Get all the details for that [email protected]. Look forward to seeing you there. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.
