Session #202: Melissa Tiers on Integrative Hypnosis Updated

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

---

This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Session number 202, Melissa Tears on integrative hypnosis updated. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Welcome back to the program.

It’s Jason. And first things first, thank you to everybody for the incredible outpouring of support in the launching of my book Work Smart Business, which to find out more about that, of course, just simply head over to work smart business.com. In the early days, we hit, uh, number one in the entire business category.

Reviews well over about. Five dozen or so at this point and continuing to grow. Thank you so much, and clearly just to call Ed, of course, Yes. That project is also about helping to advance my career, but in part, I did write it with the mindset as a bit of an underlying theme to help advance the careers of many hypnotists around the world that I often would hear people asking about some of the work they’ve seen me doing, working with executive clients or taking these messages out to different, more professional communities.

So really not just for my benefit, if. Clients that are kind of stuck on business themes, sharing that book with them is actually something that helps to validate the work that you’re already doing. Speaking of validating the work we’re already doing, I’ve been wanting to have Melissa tears back on the program for quite some time.

She was guest number 60 on the program. Back on, uh, back around May, 2016, and just over the years of hanging out at various conventions and different workshops, there’s certain themes that we’ve been talking about that the running gag kind of became, Uh, okay. When you’re on the program, next time, we’re gonna talk about the memory consolidation.

When you’re on, next time we’re gonna talk about revisiting these ideas that we hold to be so sacred in the profession, and then to realize, Well, at its core, some other elements may be going on. So the, the title of this week’s session appropriately titled, Integrative Hypnosis Updated, which if you don’t have, uh, let’s just simplify it.

If you don’t have any of Melissa’s books, head over to Amazon. By them all. I’ve read them. They’re outstanding. A lot of workable knowledge that’s inside of these books and inside of this content. And we’re gonna hit themes in terms of resolving some of the, uh, sort of inner wars that are currently going on in different schools of the hypnotic profession with a lovely West Side story reference.

In the middle for those that can pick it up. But also getting into the application of curiosity, the value of it in terms of how we work with our clients, getting into the mindsets of how we better serve our clients and listen, and to look at that sort of minimal project, that minimal product that we can deliver to our clients as well if our students, so not just the mindset.

Delivering less. But instead highlighting if all you did was make use of this one element, here’s what you could create. And by doing so in that way, it really helps to empower that client in a much better way, in a much more empowering landscape. So check out this incredible conversation. Go back and listen to the first one.

If you haven’t yet heard it though. I’ve sat through both of them. This one does stand alone on its own. You can check out the links to Melissa’s upcoming trainings and her website over at the Work Smart Hypnosis website, the show notes with this session. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for your ongoing support and other projects, and with that, Let’s jump directly into this week session, uh, a couple of years in the making for part two.

This is session number 202, Melissa Tier on Integrative hypnosis, Updated.

You know, I mean, the integrative hypnosis, It’s funny, I, I called it integrative hypnosis for the first book, and that was at, I guess about 14 years ago at this point. And I did that so that I would have a big enough umbrella, you know, to keep learning. At the time, my mind was changing about what was important in, in change work almost weekly.

You know, I would think I had, uh, an idea for the framework , and then that would just be blown up a week later when I would, you know, go to a different training or read another book or in my office. And so integrative hypnosis kind of allowed me this. This, this big umbrella where I could continue learning and, and updating and putting things in.

So it, it really is a training that’s always in flux, Right. And always has been so that even by the time the first book came out, you know, by the time it was out I was already, um Right. Doing so many other things. At, you know, uh, I mean, it’s kind of like when I was a musician. By the time the CD came out, I would, didn’t even wanna listen to it.

We, I didn’t wanna play any of those songs anymore. You know, I was already onto the next batch. So, , Well, I think this is, I mean, this highlights something that. You know, it comes from doing any bit of teaching or writing on something that it really drives you to look at everything that you’re doing and ask yourself, why is this working?

How is this getting the result? And, and sometimes we find the result is coming from some direction that’s different than what our perhaps initial hypothesis was. Sure. Absolutely. And you know, it’s one thing in a training situation, it’s another thing in the real world and. You know, um, I can always tell a trainer that doesn’t have a private practice.

I can just tell by the confidence with which they, you know, impart their , their protocol, technique or whatever. You know, it’s like, hmm. Um, I, I forget who, who said this great quote, which is, um, convictions are what you get when you stop thinking. Hmm. And I really love. because for me, the coolest part of this mind field is that there’s no cap on it, right?

There’s no point at which you and I are gonna be like, Hey, that’s it. I guess we know everything there is to know about the mind , about consciousness, about hypnosis. None of these things it’s ever gonna happen. And so, It, You know, it encourages an ongoing learning. But for me, you know, very early on, I, there were things that people, trainers and teachers would say that just, you know, when I would say, Well, where’s the research on that?

You know, where does that come from? Where’s the study? And no, they wouldn’t have them. And I’m like, Well, who told you this? Oh, my teacher and who told, Oh, my teacher. And it just, you know, it just kept going. Very early on, I learned that it was a lot more fun to, to dig and, and figure it out and, and challenge the things that needed to be challenged.

Yeah. So speaking of that, digging and, and finding it out, what, what kind of updates have you found that have helped to better influence your work? Right. Well, great question. So, You know, it’s been transforming all along. And these days, you know, I find that it’s not so much that I’m breaking out the latest and greatest technique.

You know, it’s not necessarily the, um, the technique, the approach, the induction, the process, the pattern. It’s more the framework that’s different. It’s more the understanding, the conceptual, uh, The, the constructs that we have around the work. So at this point, I’ve really been simplifying things down, you know, synthesizing.

Um, and integrative hypnosis at this point is, is, uh, is, is a framework that is really inclusive in, in that. Um, and I, I say that because so many of the trainings that I’ve been to and continue to go to are very exclusive. And what I mean is this is the. This is the way that you have to do the work. You have to do X, Y, and Z, and that’s how it has to be.

And then you go to another training and they say, This is the way, No, you’ve gotta get to the core beliefs. And then the other one says, No, it’s the hierarchy of values. If you don’t get the values straightened out and aligned, you’re never gonna, Oh no, you’ve gotta challenge this. You’ve gotta, It’s the behavioral stuff, you know, it’s, it’s the initial sensitizing event.

If you don’t get that, you’re not doing the real work. You know? So all of these things, As I think you and I have joked before are, are really, if, if you look underneath all the processes that actually work, that create the long lasting change, there’s really, um, not that many maneuvers and they’re all kind of consistent.

So one of the things that I really like these days, and I would say at this point, integrative hypnosis operates on a few different. Right. And that I’m kind of approaching change from the, um, from top down and bottom up at the same time. And, and what I mean by that is, um, the first level right, uh, that I give to clients is what I call my self-directed neuroplasticity frame.

It is a set of techniques, right? All designed to interrupt a habituated pattern and foster. A rewiring of the brain, right? So I arm my clients with a, with a bunch of great ways to get out of anxiety or out of the craving state, or out of a hot state in general. And as they’re getting out of it, they’re actually lighting up different neural networks and rewiring the habit.

So that’s the first thing I give to clients, right? The second level of work is. Is really going through with a client to neutralize some of the triggers involved. And, and this, this, we, we bring in the other form of neuroplasticity, which is so, so self-directed. Neuroplasticity, as I frame it, is considered to be a counteractive form.

You’re creating these counter pathways. The second level of neuroplasticity is where we’re. Um, therapeutic memory consolidation to actually rewrite, um, sometimes very early implicit, uh, emotional memories and. . When we do that kind of work, that’s when we get that really that transformative in one go. Aha.

And I, I think you and I have had a conversation already about this, but just in case, um, Yeah. I love the theme that we’ve, we’ve chatted before that at its core is there’s often the sharks versus Jets mindset, sometimes in the hypnotic profession of this technique. No, my technique, right. But at its core that that therapeutic memory consolidation kind of is the basis of practically everything out there.

Exactly. That that’s what’s happening. And you know, I think, um, so when I was first really looking into what was going on in the brain when clients made changes, , Right? And, and, and how to use that. And I, um, I, I read the first book by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz and it rocked my world. And I don’t even know how many years ago it was, um, where I started to think, Oh my God, this might be what’s happening when we do the repetitive kind of conditioning, right?

The heavy in law of neurons that fire together, wire together, and when we have our clients do the home, You know, and, and, and do the post hypnotic triggers repeatedly that this is what’s happening. It’s basically conditioning, right stimulus. But what was happening when clients would have that one session and in five minutes their phobia would be gone.

Like, what the hell was going on in the brain? And that’s when I started to dig a little deeper. Wait, you’re saying, you say you didn’t condition it over 30 days of listening to the same audio three times a day, . Right. And make sure that audio is 45 minutes long. Um, Right. So no. So that was my question way back when, right?

I don’t understand. Heavy in law is not applying here. When I do this weird tapping technique and all of a sudden the phobia is gone. What the fuck is happening? Right. When I do a fast phobia cure, the visual kinesthetic dissociation from NLP and the phobia is gone. What’s happening When all of a sudden that traumatic memory that used to, you know, cause people to freeze is no longer happening because I did some reimprinting or regression to cause or any of these techniques.

I wanted to know how it was, it was workable, how was it happening in the brain? And that’s where therapeutic memory consolidation was a a a a true aha. I mean, I’ve been teaching for the past few years that this is where the revolution. Is going to happen in change work once this really trickles down in a major way from from the laboratory to the clinician’s office, that is when you know the whole entire field of talk therapy, psychotherapy is gonna be kind of turned on its head, or at least that’s my.

You know, it’s already starting to happen. Um, Bruce Ecker wrote a book, uh, on, on this. He’s written a couple of great articles that are trying to really bridge the , the gap between. Uh, neuroscientists and, uh, psychotherapists. And I think it was a, a crucial element and to map the therapeutic memory consolidation, the, the vital steps which I condition into my students from day one.

You know, everything. It, it’s just, it’s repeated, you know, to the point where, They, they do this in their sleep because to me it’s the game changer. And in the same way that we can say all of these different approaches are doing the, um, memory consolidation, there’s other, uh, forms of change work that still get great results that are not following the four steps.

And this is where, you know, what did you say the. Versus the Jets. This is where this other piece comes in that I, that I feel is vital for, for, for, you know, bringing the field together in general, which, , if you think about, um, basic problems as, as being neural networks, right? And that these neural networks, they might start from a very young age, priming us emotionally.

Um, you know, and, and we build upon neural networks, right? So, I don’t wanna go too crazy into this except to say what that means is whether you come at this from the, I’ve gotta get the core. Uh, beliefs or whether you get the behavior or whether you get the, uh, implicit emotional memory or whether you get the values or whether you get the, you know, the, the, the cognitive, um, you know, challenges in cognitive behavioral therapy, what you’re actually doing is affecting the same neural network that trickles down.

There’s faster ways to work , you know, and there’s ways of doing a massive update, which is why I always hit. Memory consolidation won pretty hard because that is where you get that massive update and everything shifts, the ideas, the beliefs, the values, everything has a massive update once you, you know, know those, so, so to get back to, you know, integrative hypnosis, Let me, let me pause you there cuz I’ll throw in a little bit of a metaphor here that I think helps to really solidify this, that the benefit becomes, is that yes, we can sit back, I’d say, and let’s call it out, be smug to go, Oh, here’s what we’re actually doing.

But to also recognize here’s the why that’s behind it. Here’s the sort of mechanism that’s making this thing effective and the the completely out of nowhere. For, to throw at you is that, uh, in terms of fitness, there are two types of science. Uh, there is regular science, which is what we call science, but there’s also a category called bro science, which are the guys in the gym who are just repeating things they read in a muscle and fitness magazine, or they saw online and go, No, no, no.

You have to eat it this way. You have to eat it. Lift that way. And one of the things in this category is this little phenomenon that pops up called the mind muscle connection, where the premise is that if you’re thinking about the group of muscles when you’re exercising them, they are activating even more, which the real science on that is, um, maybe

But let’s look at this sort of, uh, you know, sort of skeptically for a moment if you’re thinking about the group of muscles. Chances are you’re actually using better form than you would’ve been if you were engaging in conversation watching something on the television at the gym, or just focused on who knows what else.

So by actually thinking about the group of muscles, you’re forcing yourself to think about the form, and by doing so, that’s gonna produce a better. Anyway, so this is what I, I love about this cuz it’s helping us to realize inside of the technique that yes, sometimes there is that best practices mechanism that well put the technique in this order because here’s what that’s gonna provide, or do it this way.

So you can see the problem state and now know what to test later on. But at its core, this highlighting on the therapeutic memory consolidation. It’s helping us to shine that spotlight on where the change is occurring, what’s happening beneath it to know that, okay, this may be, let’s call it out. This segment may just be dressing around the process, but here’s where the work is actually happening.

Well, and, and, and let, let me stop there because I think this is a, a, a crucial thing, um, for me, constantly teaching the structure. Underneath the patterns and processes, right. With, with this. And, and there are certain elements that if you don’t actually light up the neural network involved, you’re not gonna get that kind of change.

It just won’t happen. And that’s the, I mean, that’s that importance of actually getting that problem stayed up as the process begins. So to, to often, you know, um, people go to a hypnotist and, you know, they, they have someone talk about their problem and then they go into a nice h. Stayed and the hypnotist tells them everything they wanna hear.

They’re gonna be feeling confident, they’re gonna be feeling this, they’re gonna feeling that, and then they float on out of the office because trance feels good and they’ve just been told they’re going to be confident. Unfortunately, without having. Activated the relevant neural network of the problem.

You haven’t actually hooked that confidence into anything, so it just is not robust. It won’t, it won’t hold. But before I go into that, let me just back up because you said something which I think is really vital. The reason I highlight the form underneath is because, , it becomes an art form. You see, once you know that there’s these, uh, four steps, these components you gotta hit, then however you get there is, you know about, uh, the, the individual in front of you, your style, the, the dressing as you say, right, The gravy as I so.

Put it . Um, either way we’re letting it marinate. Yes. . I’m sorry. I’m so sorry I be . Yeah, so, so the key component here is it’s not. , it’s not, The dressing is not to be, you know, poo pooed, okay? Mm-hmm. , simply because there’s other things that the dressing provides. It provides novelty, it provides curiosity. It provides the necessary vehicle for.

Dopamine to slide in and take that attention and learning a little deeper. So, you know, that’s why we bring in the new techniques. That’s why we bring in and foster curiosity, because when you, you get your clients curious, you’re locking in attention. You’ve got the dopamine flowing and everything is going to go in a little smoother, right?

It is the juice by which the brain locks in memory and so. You know, when I teach this, a lot of times my students will be like, Well then why do we have to, Why did you teach us, you know, 10 other ways to do this? We could just do this one. And I’ll say, That’s right, but how boring would that be? And there’s nothing worse than a board therapist because then you get a board client.

Well, it’s not just for the, I think this is, this highlights something too, that it’s not the sake of how many, Let’s put it in a magic context. How many tricks can I do to fill the hour? It’s instead, how many different ways can we compound it that we are going at times, Yes, for that rapid change, but there is that constant rewiring.

This is, uh, as someone I know says they call it looping, but I forget who. Yeah, me. I know it’s, You got it. . Well, to, to loop it in, uh, around and around. But, but, but the key point I’m trying to make here is, you know, our, our biology right, um, is, is kind of set up to synchronize. Right. Mm-hmm. rapport happens naturally, and one of the things that I always found annoying in, in LP trainings is when they, they practice the matching and mirroring and rapport building skills, and I always thought that, you know, if, if, if, if you really want to get good at that, Right.

Have an intention to help this person, and you will find rather rapidly that the, you follow each other’s movements, that the rapport just happens. It happens unconsciously. The best way to mess up an unconscious pattern is to make it conscious and try to do it deliberately, so. We have this, um, brain that likes to kind of synchronize a heart that likes to synchronize.

And I don’t mean this in a woo woo Californian kind of way. I’m talking about, you know, the fact that we’ve got something called, um, Neuroception, which is a great word. Um, Steven POEs, who wrote Polyvagal theory, he, I believe he coined this term and I think it’s fantastic because it is. That perception of your nervous system that is going on all the time.

It is constantly hyper aware of the more subtle, unconscious things. So our nervous system and our client’s nervous system is constantly communicating outside of our conscious awareness, and we communicate by our facial expression. So, I don’t know if you know too much about the polyvagal theory, but it’s, it’s, it’s kind of fascinating in that, that vagus nerve that connects the brain to all of the.

Um, organs also has an updated version, another branch that comes out to our vocal cords and our facial expressions. So it’s kind of, you can think of it as the, the evolution of our nervous system, right? That in, in humans, this is how we are signaling to each other if there’s danger or not. And I, I, when I first read, I couldn’t believe it because it, it explains so much, right?

The traumatized person with the flat, uh, facial muscles, the monotone voice. And then when you think about it and you think about, um, horror movies, what are the scariest. Moments of a horror movie. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s the, it’s the psychopath with the flat affect. It’s the twins in the Shining with no, with that flat facial it.

Expression. And then I think of the old school hypnotist in the monotone voice, You are getting sleepy. And how fucking terrifying that is for our nervous system. Literally our nervous system. When it hears that, it it, it perks up and our body is sensing danger. And most of the time we’re not aware of that.

We just know that we don’t quite feel comfortable here or something, but we don’t, Most of it is an uncomfortableness of the nervous. Which, uh, limits, you know, the, the, the prefrontal cortex from really fully being online. But anyway, I’m, I’m, I’m, So, these are the things I’m excited about. How do we utilize, Yeah.

How do we utilize all of this stuff to become more aware of the influence? So when I say about the dressing, just to close this, And how vital it is to have that gravy. I mean, well, you, you and I both know you can have a tasteless meal and who the fuck wants to eat that, Right? So we need that because of so many other things.

We need to get curious about each and every single client because that curiosity is contagious. We need to also have an intention. , Right to help. We need to also be aware that our tonality, our pro city, our facial expression is communicating more than we ever realized. And it’s not that we have to fake anything.

You know, you’re not gonna go to an NLP training and then practice, you know, vocalization. You just have to have an intention to be. Present and helpful and all that stuff kind of falls into the right place. You know, there’s people that know every technique in the book, but boy, I would never wanna be sitting in a, in an office with them as my helper.

You know what I mean? Why, What is it? Well, I think it’s where there is that element of. You know how the, again, back to the dressing, back to the gravy, back to however we let them marinate, that there, there is the framing of it, which is just as important that to put it in to some of the context that I talk about, we’re still selling the process with the client in the chair that yes, they’re already there.

Yes, they’ve already signed up, yet we’re now selling the value of the chains. We’re selling the value of the technique and to use the word in a playful way and to get to that excited place, but also to to match and also recognize. Hypnotic suggestions are not just words. It’s the way that we can kind of turn the head in a confused way when we’re going into that curious mindset rather than going, Well, how does it feel?

How does it feel? Which that becomes annoying as hell. Yes. Instead to really be in the moment where we’re suggesting that confusion by way of our tonality, by way of our facial expression, which is then telegraphing that they can’t find that old fearful sensation. And I think also that the selling of the change is, is vital.
Which is why these days when I say I work from, you know, uh, top down and bottom up, uh, a lot of my work is, is, is kind of psychoeducation, you know, where I’m saying look like, because most of my clients at this point come by way of psychiatrists. Right. I like the more interesting. Uh, at this point I have a center.

I’ve got students I can, you know, send, uh, the easier cases to them. And so people come to me from their psychiatrist, which means they’ve already, you know, got a label, you know, pasted on their forehead and that they’re starting to identify with. And the first thing I do is tell them, you know, when they sit down and they say, Oh, I have, you know, this anxiety disorder.

I say, Oh, I, I’m not a psychotherapist, so legally I can’t even use that terminology in my office. What you have is a habit, and here’s how we break habits, right? So for me, and then I tell them, anything felt with repetition, done with repetition. Even thought with repetition creates a habituated pattern in the brain, and here’s how we change that.

And so right away I start to change the frame that we’re using and to, as you said, sell the change. This is why you’re going to, uh, notice a difference. Because you’ve never tried this or this, or this, or this. Right. And, you know, hypnosis is that magic, you know, wand, it’s, it’s as what I say is the fairy dust that we get to sprinkle all over the place.

That is the best way to build expectation and to open that door because they’ve, you know, they, they might have been talking about their problem for 30 years, but they’ve never done hyp. And even though you and I don’t even know exactly what hypnosis is anymore, um, , the more we learn, the more we’re confused.

We know it works and that’s what counts here. We’re still trying to figure out the mechanics of it all, but, Well, speaking of that, a while ago you mentioned the idea of synthesizing the process down. Yeah. Uh, is there an example? Is there an example of that? You can tell? Well, so, so. Cooking it down to, as I said, the, the, the essential parts.

And even though you know, you and I agree that we don’t kind of give scripts and we don’t teach our students, you know, to read scripts to others, I do teach this, this, this underlying structure so that then every pattern that I teach is another way of doing. Right. Every pattern I’ll say, Oh, and so this, that you already do and love.

This is where it fits in. Right? So I have the self-directed neuroplasticity frame, that’s the top frame really. And then the therapeutic memory consolidation, where we are kind of neutralizing the, the triggers. And as well as, you know, tracking back to the early. Primes that are still a cohesive part of that neural network that we call the problem.

Right? But then there’s the third level that I think is just not, um, well, it certainly wasn’t, uh, talked about in any of my NLP trainings, which is. You know, you and I have joked, they, they, they always said, don’t ask why. Right. Keep why out of the picture. You want what you want when you want, how, but why could take you 10 years to, to find out.

But I think by, um, thinking that way, we are really forgetting the, the biggest part of what makes us human. And that is our need to know. our need to understand our, our, our want of insight and clarity and, and a narrative to, to kind of put around this, right, which in, in itself can cause massive shifts, massive shifts.

Right. There’s people that are doing work that just challenge the reality of that person’s reality and, and, and clients really do let go of their problem. So there’s many different ways that we can encourage that, that we can create a safe enough space where we can explore, we can use hypnosis to go into these more, these deeper.

where we can foster that kind of new narrative. And I think that is, uh, the third level of my, you know, kind of multi-tiered approach. Um, sorry. That was Well, I think what’s important in Badin joke, but Hi. Hey. Kind of like a joke. It’s not funny. I know, right. The sideshow performer by the name of Todd Robbins is catch phrases.

It’s just like comedy. Uh, . No, but I mean, it’s where there is something to be said about satisfying the conscious mind, having that shingle to hang the change off of that. They come in and without it, then you’re working against yourself and they’re working against themselves. To me, I call it, you know, the, the thing that they need to hang the change.

And that’s why a little bit of neuroscience goes a long way because now they can be like, Oh, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a neuro association in my brain. That’s all my brain was doing, what my brain was designed to do. Right? So now we’re just changing the brain and, and people get that. I work a lot with teens as well.

And to give them this frame as opposed to the initial frame they were offered of, of, of a mental illness. where there’s no cure. , sorry, I can’t stand that frame. You know, hey, you’ve got a, you’ve got a mental illness and oh yeah, there’s no cure and you’re just gonna have to manage it for the rest of your life.

Oh, the pills don’t work well. Sucks to be you. You know, it’s like, what kind of a frame is that? So for me, it’s a big piece that conscious buy-in, and I’m always hitting. Well, it’s where if we, and even if it’s the as if framework, that if we’re operating from that perspective that this thing is stuck and it’s not going to move, why are we here?

As opposed to operating from the mindset that this was a dialogue that was popping up at a group. This question will pop up frequently in different hypnosis groups online about how do you not take on the client’s problem? And my answer is, if that’s a problem, you’re identifying what the wrong part of them.

That’s right. That what they’re coming in with is the story. They’re living out, but that story is not who they are. So the process is about disassociating out of that story and instead moving into that outcome. But I mean, it’s where the person says, Well, he has this issue that means this. And I just kind of smile and say, If I work from that premise, there’s no use for us to be here.

Let’s see what happens if we sort of bend that. Right. Right. Absolutely. You know, um, in my trainings, right? So you and I both are, are hypnosis trainers and there’s, there’s something that I call the, you know, even if all you gave them was. Right? Mm-hmm. and so nice. So on the first day of class, right, let’s say it’s an eight day intensive.

The first day of class, I teach them the neural, the self-directed neuroplasticity frame. Right here is a set of tools and techniques that if you give to, you know, this person with anxiety, this person with a habit, this person with this or this person with that, If all you gave them was this, you would be able to teach them to change their.

Jeffrey Schwartz’s work pans that out. He works with severe O C D people and when they, they look at their brain just six weeks later, it looks entirely different, right? So if all you did was give them this, wouldn’t that be worth the session with you? And then I build, if all you did was give them this self hypnosis template that you know, every Olympic.

Athlete knows at this point, if all you did was offer them that, isn’t that worth doing? Isn’t that, you know, something that someone would pay for. And then as the class goes on, so by the first day, they’ve got a, a, a good enough skill set. And, and I know this because there was a psychiatrist that came to my training a couple of years ago and um, then had a family crisis happen and could only.

To the first day where I teach a bunch of techniques and the self-directed neuroplasticity. I teach, you know, self hypnosis. I teach them how to hypnotize and, you know, go into like, uh, an exploratory trance, kind of like the mirroring hands kind of thing. And, you know, for insight and clarity. And that was all they had.

But two years later, you know, I have a conversation with this person who was like, I can’t tell you how, you know, how this has changed my practice. I’ve been, you know, using, Everything from that first day, and it’s changed everything. So I started to to, to build my courses that way so that you know, if something happens and you can’t come to class tomorrow, I’ve given you a good enough skill set where you can help most people with most things.

Well, I think it’s also too, again, back to the mindset of selling. It’s telling the student that, you know, here’s what you’ve got, and if you just simply put this to use, here are some of the results you can expect. Where my, my version of that is if we were to stop right here, here’s what you would know, here’s what you’d be able to customize for the individual and.

Even to play the game of, okay, so if we did stop here and all you did was go off and let’s say buy a ScriptBook, you now understand to look at that as if that was a transcript of one specific session, pull out the specific patterns of change and now modify that to best fit the client. But, but wait, there’s more, uh, , right?

But giving them that tool. You know, really selling the benefit of these things and really putting into that momentum of here’s what will happen as you put this into use. Um, I’d share my, my quick version of that was, um, I was working, and this is not to say I’m necessarily better, it’s just we all have sometimes these things that we need to reach out for someone else.

I’ve gone to a hypnotist and here was a, uh, psychologist who came to me and we’re working together and she gives me this phone call and the dialogue is, I need you to understand that I’m very upset with you for several reasons. Uh, the first is we haven’t dealt with my childhood trauma. So based on my education, there’s no reason why this should be working, but I’m down 15 pounds.

Also, there’s a technique you taught me that I have been doing three times a day, and I’m really annoyed at that. Because I teach my patients techniques all the times and all the time, and they don’t use them. So then I’m also upset because I tried to remember the way you presented the technique to me, and I’ve done a plagiarized version of that to my patients in the last month, and now they’re all using the techniques I’ve taught

Okay, good. And I’m going, class starts next week. So, but again, looking at things from a different angle sometimes of highlighting this is what you’ve learned, here’s how we present that process, which I love that aspect of, again, I learned this from you, of presenting the, the practical neuroscience that goes underneath it.

Here’s how this is working, I think, I think also, you know, one of the biggest problems that I’ve seen over the years, you know, at this point I’ve been teaching this stuff for, I don’t know, 18. Um, is, is that people, you know, they, they feel like they just don’t know enough, Right? They feel like, you know, I mean, I get people, they’ve taken 10 different trainings, you know, and yet they have yet to launch.

You know, at a certain point you’ve gotta be, um, you’ve gotta go to the real school and the real school is the work. The real school is the private. That’s where you are really gonna learn. You just gotta do it. So to give them a framework enough where if all you gave people were these techniques and with the, with the frame of here’s how you change your brain, then they’re getting their money’s worth.

So I think it’s important, you know, and I’ve just, you know, after so many years of teaching and recognizing that there. Issue. Then I started to really change the, the way that I teach, so that, as I said in the first, you know, before lunch break, they’ve got a skill set that is easily transferable. , Right?

They can, they can easily take that to a group. They could take it to a class, they could take it to, you know, it’s, it’s basically like my little anti-anxiety toolkit that I have. And then, so we, everything then gets folded in, right? So it’s just building and building and building. And so I think that when you say, where is integrative hypnosis, uh, I think, you know, that’s a big part of it as well, because I do the same with with my clients, you know, so that they get it so that they leave me armed and better, you know?

There’s a few different studies that indicate, um, that there’s two main things that predict the success of any therapy, right? Any therapeutic intervention. There’s the rapport, the therapeutic relationship, right? And that goes back to some of what. You know, I was mentioning about neuroception and the fact that, you know, if you have, um, what, uh, what this woman who wrote being a brain wise therapist, Bonnie, something, she’s, she’s so lovely and, you know, um, what she calls if you have a compassionate listener, , right?

Someone who is, is, is, is looking at you and invested in helping you, then that creates this space, and that is what our nervous system is looking for. It’s basically saying, Am I safe? And then l a fraction of a second later, am I safe? Am I safe? And so I. There’s this alliance that we have to become more aware of, right?

So I teach coaching the unconscious mind, and this is a big part of it. It’s about understanding the influences that are going on externally and internally that are outside of our client’s conscious awareness and our conscious awareness. But the more you get educated about cognitive filters and biases and heuristics, You know, neuroception and all of this stuff, then the better able you are to spot them.

You know what I mean? And to utilize them to make, uh, that individual in front of you feel not only safe, but inspired and curious that they can change, right? Sell them the change. Let them kind of create that, um, open door. So I think there’s that. And then the other thing that indicates, um, the success or not of a therapeutic intervention is how well you teach your clients to control, to, to basically affect regulation when they’re not with you, how well can they control their own emotional states?

And so to me, taking those two things, you know, um, to heart, basical. And arming people on the very first session with ways of changing their emotional states, that’s power. You know, it gives them that, that power in, in, I mean, really where it belong. So another thing that that really, um, changed the way that I practiced was, was kind of doing that was, was, um, letting go of the responsibility on some level for, for my clients change.

Now that doesn’t mean, it doesn’t mean that I don’t do my damnedest right to get the change in the office, but it also means that I am essentially a. And I’m not a therapist, so I’m a teacher and I’m gonna teach you the client how to change your own brain. I’m going to teach you how to go into hypnosis and start to be able to, you know, program in how you wanna be and go into states where you can access, um, some clarity, right?

And so, you know, for instance, someone calls me and says, Can you make me quit smoking? I say, No, I cannot. Here’s what I can do. I can teach you five different ways to stop a craving. I can teach you hypnosis so you can go into a state where this is gonna be easy. Beyond that, it’s up to you cuz you can always still be stupid and smoke.

you know, that that tool is an option. I’m not gonna, you know, and so, so when I started to really change that, well, then everything became easier. You know, I can remember when I first started out being so nervous, like, Oh my God, is it gonna work? Like, what if it doesn’t work? You know, after you have to test someone to quit smoking.

Oh my God, what if it doesn’t work? I remember. I hated that. I hated that feeling. Now it’s like, it’s not, Is it gonna work? It’s, are they gonna fucking work it? Well, I mean, it’s to take the, the expectation of, you know, to live by the phrase that it can be a magical change, but it’s not the tap the magic wand and that does it.

It’s that, you know, still you taking action is part of this, you moving things forward. So it’s where if a client that I’ve worked with, you know, reaches back out to me to go, Hey, I still need a little bit of help with this. I’m happy to schedule them, but in the phone call, it’s gonna become what is it that you are willing to do differently?

What is it that you are going to take action upon that’s gonna make this valuable for both of us? You know, because it’s not just the game of taking your money again and playing the game of well, is it gonna work this time, really to just erratic doing the same thing. That didn’t work for you before.

Right? It’s to eradicate us out of the category of either worked or didn’t work. Right? You can’t return a hammer and say, This one didn’t work. Could I swap it out for another one? Good. But here’s the other thing that, Sorry for the metaphors. No worries. Never apologized for metaphors. . Well, I’ll take that back.

try. I’ve heard some really horrible metaphors before, but what I did. Say is, you know, a lot of times when I say that, some people are like, But what about, you know, I mean the expectation of the magic, I mean, isn’t the expect you keep teaching us that? It’s so much of this is all about expectation and belief and now you’re saying, so I always leave room for magic to happen.

I always say, you know, look, I never know. A lot of people come in here, they do this and they do that. They have this one session and it’s done, and they walk outta here. They feel great. That stuff is already in the past. They never even think about it. That’s great. That might happen for you, but just in case it doesn’t, here’s the techniques you.

Right. So I always do some people or you never know. And so I do wanna leave that on the table as a possibility, but to get back to, you know, uh, the, the whole kind of updated thing and, and where are you at and what are you excited about? One of the other things that I didn’t bring up yet was, you know, um, I told you it’s, it’s always changing and I’m always kind of, uh, interested and I like to, you know, learn more things and, and focus in and.

Um, I would say last year or the year before, it was all about, oh my God, therapeutic memory consolidation. Ah, it’s been, you know, so now I’ve been really, um, playing with different ways of fostering a bigger. Type of transformation, right? So by kind of looking at different ways of using hypnosis to foster that aha revelation, that transformation that happens in a massive way when people do some psychedelics, right?

When they have that psychedelic. Experience that expands their model, expands their map to, in a way that it just can’t revert back. And so I’ve been exploring that as well as, you know, different ways of fostering and encouraging creativity by, by stimulating, or rather not stimulating the default mode network in the.

You know, there’s some current research that is saying that this is where creativity comes from. This is where problems get solved. And that’s why nowadays the current thinking in even learning is, you know, uh, you know, study it. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, get up and walk around, you know, do something else, sleep on it, go for a walk.

When you start to look at all these great scientists and all these great creative thinkers and when, you know, they interview them about, Their favorite moments, their creative moments, it’s while they’re walking, it’s while they’re, you know, doing something else because that’s when the default mode network comes into play.

And they used to think it was just like the brain’s kind of set point when you’re not doing nothing like they would have to, you know, um, deal with that. In in studying any other feature of the brain, and they thought it was like a baseline, but now the research is indicating It does. It’s vital. It’s vital to all sorts of problem solving, creative thinking.

Dramatic shifts and changes in perspective. And so that’s kind of what, what I’ve been thinking about here. Uh, as I sit on a balcony in Mexico this winter, , you know, it’s a rough life. . It’s a rough life, man. It’s a rough life. And while we’re at it, how, how lucky are we that we are in this amazing field where we can take this shit on the road like I’ve been.

Skype sessions and virtual sessions, and I’ve also been zooming into my supervision practice nights that I have for all of my students. You know, that was the thing when I said I was leaving, my students were like, Wait, practice night, you know? So for 18 years, I’ve had a practice night every other Wednesday, you know, when people take my training, I just want them to know that there’s a place where they can land.

And now I just do it virtually. And I have Dan Ryan, who you’ve met, right? Daniel? He, he, he’s there in person hosting the physical one, and they just kind of zoom me in for the q and a and the first hour. So, So yeah, I’m in Mexico, but. It’s a hard life. . The world has become a lot smaller. It really has that phrase changed my world.

It really has. So, I’m sorry, you were, You were about to ask me a question. I interrupted you. Yeah, I was gonna say that, just look at the entire hypnotic experience from that filter. That this is a big part of why I think the hypnotic phenomenon and my ho my entire hook with the phenomenon is that, I’m putting the words in the right order so that you’re able to create this for yourself.

I’m teaching you how to do this. And the moment that they have that experience where they can’t lift the hand off the chair or they’re cracking up because they’re counting their fingers and there’s 11, which may seem usually to be like some sort of stage hypnosis stunt. It, it’s breaking down that perception of reality.

It’s breaking down how real that thing was. And in many ways, um, two weeks ago in the program, Adam, me was on, and he talked about a similar thing around, if you can do this, it’s kind of on one part what you’re already doing to be in the issue and on the same side, here’s how you’re also going to move out of it.

That it’s not a, it’s not a habit you have to run anymore. Well, it it, it brings us back to, you know, the, the magic. Right, the magic of it. So, so much of my work is, is that more uptime kind of dynamic form of conversational, um, hypnosis and change work. But I always. always provide, you know, a little bit of magic, and that is that nice deep trance that is the hypnotic phenomenon.

You know, when I have a teenager whose hand is stuck to the table and they can’t lift it, that gets their fricking attention. Really? Yeah. Quickly. And all of a sudden this becomes something else. This becomes something that could potentially work because, oh my God, I can’t lift my leg, or I can’t lift my hand.

Or you know, she’s just made my mother not be able to speak. How cool is hypnosis? And that’s what I need for that teenager, because then they’re gonna play with it at home, and then they’re gonna continue to get better. So I’m a big believer in hypnotic phenomenon because I think. Adds that magic, you know, that tells people this is different, this is something different.

But it also tells people, look at how amazing your mind is. Because one of the key things about me using these, um, convincers and hypnotic phenomenon is I’m not the, the hypnotist. Standing outside of hypnosis, you know, ordering someone to go in, I kind of jump in and I invite someone to come along, you know, and it’s two very different, um, ways of looking at it.

But when I do a convincer, I always say, I wanna show you how awesome your mind is. Look at how powerful your mind is. I want you to suggest just repeat, My hand is stuck, right? So I turn it around and I make sure that they know that they are the ones creating. This hypnotic phenomenon. Not neat. Beautiful.

And I think it’s a, it’s an important piece, too many people in our field that, you know, it’s all about ego and it’s, you know, ridiculous because we’re supposed to be empowering people and without their active imagination and engagement, the shit ain’t happen in any way. Nice. So where can people find more, how can people, uh, make this shit happen on their own by learning it from you?

Um. It’s all about reframing and matching and marrying, Right. ? Yeah. Right. Um, go to my website, melissa tier.com. Um, if they’re on Facebook, they can friend me and like my Center for Integrative Hypnosis page, um, where I typically post things. I’ve got a, a course coming up in April in eight day intensive, which is pretty kick ass in New York City, um, and one in September.

And then I’m teaching at a few d. Conferences, certainly I’ll Beit um, hypno thoughts live in Vegas and I’ll be doing a a three day integrative hypnosis two. Five, uh, pre-conference and then a one day on the psychobiology of chronic pain syndromes. My, um, kind of ways of working with chronic conditions of all kinds really, but pain especially.

Um, and then I’ve got, uh, a few other things coming up. I’ve got a, in, in June, I’m doing, um, a gig in Brussels, which I’m really excited about. Anything that’s gonna get me back to B . I fell in love with B this year, and I just wanna go. So I’ll be in Brussels at the end of June, but they can find that out. Um, if they go to melissa tears.com and sign up for my newsletter.

Jason Ette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with US program for sharing it on your social media streams, leaving reviews online. And once again, check out Melissa’s websites over at the show notes for this episode. And if you don’t yet have a copy, the digital and the print copy is now available.

Amazon head over to work smart business.com. You can actually request a little bit of a freebie preview over there, and that’ll also link over to the Amazon pages in your own specific countries. It’s a fun little nuance of, uh, Amazon that every country has their own website, so just head to work smart business.com.

The magic of the links will bring you to the right place to check out that book. I’m Jason Lynette. You keep working smart. I’ve never said that as a closer. But, uh, let’s, let’s keep that up. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.