Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.
This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 212. David Snyder on Persuasion Power. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Get ready to become even more influential and persuasive in your process.
Hey, it’s Jason Lynette. Excited to have David Snyder back on the program now for the second time. Uh, David was previously on the program a number of years ago, and yes, to this day, I still swear this was only coincidence that he was previously episode number 69. But then again, here we are today, episode number 212, and this time a little bit more laser focused of a conversation, specifically talking about conversational hypnosis.
And what I want you to really take away is, one of the biggest points in this dialogue is how little we get into the concepts of. Use this word rather than that word. Use this technique rather than that technique and the sort of, uh, needless naming of everything that’s often kind of rich inside of these communities where, you know, so often people can point at the jargon and say, Oh, that’s what that technique is.
But it comes down to can you really put it into use in the real world? Now, a few other resources inside of this conversation. We’re gonna link over to the video that David talks about, about rapid healing in nine minutes. You can simply head over to work smart hypnosis.com to the show notes for this episode, and I’ll just link directly over to that video.
We’ll also find some resources for you to check out, as David talks about Amy Cooney’s work in terms of power poses and what that entails. But really, as you really dive into this conversation, look at the ways that it comes back to state management. So many of these strategies always come. To self, What is that foundation?
What is that grounding? And some interesting ways of looking at whether we call it deep trans identification or modeling, which you’re gonna hear one of those sort of, uh, through lines, one of those theoretical points that’s underneath a lot of David’s work with a really cool reference in terms of where it came from, which helped me to discover that yes, that’s something that I was already doing too.
Yet his example, his models were. Cooler than mine, but it still at least worked for me. Uh, so some mindsets in terms of when you go into that communication, whether it’s with a client, whether it’s business, whether it’s even your personal life, this stuff applies everywhere to look at again, bringing it back to self.
And how do you step into that heightened version of you? How do you become that much more influential, much more, let’s call it enticing version of you, that people are. Drawn to this is a conversation to really listen, to take some notes and immediately put these things into action. And to get even more like this, check out the website, David Snyder dc.com because actually coming up this year, 2019, in November, in the autumn, We’re bringing David Snyder here to the East Coast.
He doesn’t often do events over here on this side of the country, but, uh, I’d asked with our recent event, I had Bob Burns in the area a couple of weeks ago and asking the folks in attendance, Who do you want me to bring to town next? And David Snyder was at the top of their list. So this is the event that’s called, Real world conversational hypnosis masterclass.
It’s a three day event. All the details, once again, [email protected] As soon as I announced it, we got a bunch of signups. The exact dates are over on that David Snyder, DC website, but it’s all about empowering your skills of personal influence and also of course, Covert change. So what’s happening at a hotel rather convenient to the Washington DC area.
And here’s just a sampling of some of the things you can read about and you’ll learn inside of this live three day event. Six stages of persuasion you can use in any context, how to control your emotional state. On demand. That’s one of those big points we talk about in this conversation. How to use these seven unstoppable language patterns.
And I’ll share a bit of the greedy nuance of this, which is that, uh, and this is not just to pat myself on the back, but if you ever see me doing guest events in my local area, it usually comes down to one simple premise on top of polling my local audience and finding who do they want me to bring to town.
Uh, quite simply, it’s often those people who are usually training classes at conventions, When I’m also training classes at conventions, so David and I are often teaching at hypno thoughts at about the same time. So outside of like a one or two hour workshop, I haven’t yet had the experience. So let’s fly in from San Diego here to the DC area and, uh, do the event here.
Uh, other cool points, how to bind the thoughts and ideas of people so they choose exactly what you want, how to master embedded commands, how to instantly and automatically sync and link your mind and body with another human being. Some of this sounds a little too good to be true, but I’ve seen this stuff in action.
I’ve used a lot of it myself, and I’m looking forward to seeing David’s nuances on these specific strategies. So again, check out the details of that [email protected] And so here we go. Let’s jump directly into this week session. This is episode number 212, David Snyder on Persuasion.
Um, I’m trying to think about when I realized that. I think it was, I, I realized it pretty early. Well, depends on how you define early. Uh, I think it was during my sleepwalk days. I think. I think it was really in that transition period when I was going from, you know, focusing on social applications. Uh, into therapeutic and just kinda look at therapeutic applications and really focusing on what I, what I would call a socially program, hypnotic triggers.
Uh, and then is when I really realized that people are always in freaking trance no matter what. And, and so it’s not about putting somebody in tra, it’s about harnessing the TRA states they’re already in and then redirecting and managing in those states. And, and it really came about to just learning how to be comfortable.
Uh, giving instructions and, and having a hypnotic intent, or at least an influential intent right from the very beginning. Yeah. Yeah. So there’s a phrase you just used there, which I love, of socially programmed hypnotic triggers. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. Well, you know, the, the, the most common ones are, are the ones that, uh, Robert Sheldini, his book influences Psychology of Persuasion, uh, talks about, but, but h.
Has been programming us, uh, books and literature have been installing what we should and shouldn’t want, and certain triggers and behaviors, uh, that actually go against our basic, uh, biological wiring, uh, for, for centuries, if not, you know, decades, at the very least centuries, if you wanna, you know, depending on how you wanna slice it.
Uh, and so one of the biggest ones that I, and I make a joke about it, but really it happened, uh, during my social influence when I was. Uh, cutting my teeth in the, in the, the attraction niches, uh, was when I decided to affect the, uh, the voice and mannerisms of Captain Jack Sparrow in my regular daily life.
Uh, and I lovingly call that phase Captain Jack the acupuncturist, um, where I literally did a deep trans identification on, uh, Not just Captain Jack Sparrow, but a, a synthesis of very, very high level, uh, very popular classic romantic char uh, hero characters, uh, including, uh, James Bond, uh, Austin Powers, Captain Jack Sparrow, uh, Wesley from the, from the Princess Bride.
And I, I created this, this composite personality for. So to speak. And I stepped into that character and I literally lived it four months. Um, and, and I just watched the effect that, that stepping into this persona and, and living, living life this way with this adventurous attitude, energy about me, changed the behaviors of everyone around me.
Uh, and that’s when I realized that it’s all about, it’s all. on a, on a, on a biological level, it’s all about neuro neurons and appropriate inception. Uh, but on a, on a, on a much more subtle level, it’s all about the frame you hold. And the frame you portray Emma, because the person who holds the frame’s longest and the strongest wins.
What I love about that as a story, just for a bit of a through line, is that in my stage hypnosis days, which is where I started, I probably did the same thing except my source of inspiration was Harold Hill in the music Man. Because we got trouble in River City, uh, which your, your examples are much cooler than mine, uh,
But going to that place, which for people who know that musical, here’s the guy who, whatever he decides he’s gonna do, he finds a way to figure out. So to be on stage with these volunteers and just decide, oh, here’s something we can do for this, and it just got me to the right place. And the influence kind of came naturally that it wasn’t any more thinking about just the individual techniques and words and the phrasing.
It was that the character was becoming the influential part too. Absolutely. And it’s the char, and this is a big, this is a big part of the influence that I teach both therapeutic. Um, like in my, our identity by design program as well as what I teach in my killer influence and advanced social and vibrational influence, it’s the personas we take on that empower us or weaken us.
And at any given moment, we have a choice as to what identity or what, uh, personality suit we wanna step into. And depending on which ones we choose and how deeply we commit to being in that character, In that, that persona, we’ll have access to skills and abilities that some people would consider.
Magical, uh, in, in many cases or, or at the very least, super charismatic. Yeah. So let’s put that into a change context. I’m curious, is there a story that comes to mind of noticing a very different interaction by doing that? Well, yeah. Well, going back to, you know, excuse the Captain Jack, the acupuncturist, uh, you know, days.
Um, What we’ve found out is that, you know, and this is actually goes back to a book, uh, which you may want for your, your people called Red Gold. And it’s, uh, if you remember when back in the seventies, which might be a little, little bit before your time, you’re, you’re a youngster after all. Um, uh, back in the seventies when the Soviet, Soviet athletes swept the, uh, the summer in Winter Olympics, they, they took like 70 gold medals.
Well, what most people didn’t realize was there was a very powerful system of autogenic training. And sports psychology that was being used on these Soviet athletes. Um, and uh, that, uh, the author of the book, Red Gold Gregor Raport, was one of the scientists, uh, behind that program were involved in that program.
And what the Russians discovered, or I should say the Soviets not the Russians, uh, was that each human being was not one person that each human being had these subroutines running in them. They called them co personal. And that by stepping in and out of these co personalities, uh, some of them obviously corresponded to what we would consider the young archetypes or, or, or what have you, but a lot of them, you could have a gluttonous archetype right next to your warrior archetype or a lying archetype, right next to our lying co personality, rather, right next to your mother Co.
And so what the, what the Soviets discovered was that these personas, these co personalities, had a level of dominance in a person’s life. Based on the amount of energy that was given to it by the subconscious mind, and they taught their athletes specifically how to go into a metaphorical construct and literally pull the plug to the energy feeding those, those, those co personalities and redirect it into, uh, the more positive, uh, co personalities that they wanted to have more dom.
And be more prevalent in their system. Um, and that’s actually became a big part of what we do in our Identity by Design program. Um, but in terms of, of stepping in, you see, you see variations and versions of this ability that we have. Uh, you see it in nlp in their, in their exercise, and a lot of times people.
People see the surface of the technique, but they don’t grasp the ramifications of it. Uh, if you’re talking, if you look at things like gestalt therapy or you look at things like NLPs uh, perceptual positions, or the technique that’s d derived from that called new behavior generator, when you step into a perspective, like to use a, just to, to use, uh, perceptual positions from NLPs cause that’s one of, or parts therapy.
These are all different aspects of the same phenomena. Um, but if you, if you step into one pers, let’s say you’re having an argument with somebody, you step into their perspective or you’re arguing with that person, then you literally spatially change yourself so that you’re looking through the eyes of the person you’re arguing with, and you see things from their perspective and you argue back, you’re gonna get a completely different perspective.
Of the argument. Whereas if you take a meta position where you’re looking at, where you’re sitting, like off to the side, watching yourself arguing with this person, watching this person argue with you, you have a completely different experience of that interaction. These are aspects of this identity phenomenon, this personality phenomenon.
There’s a spacial component to everything that the nervous system does that is part. Of the coding system that the, the, the, the human being that is, that, that the nervous system or the neurology uses to create your experience. So when you create a persona, there’s a holographic. It’s pregnant with a lot of information that is presupposed in there that you have access to, but you don’t know you have access to until you step into that persona.
Just as a simple way to, to hack this. Um, and actually this was actually discovered by one of my associates, tj. We were teaching people hypnotic language, we discovered that if they actually practiced some of the drills using a, for an accent or taking on the per, like say you took on the, the, the twang of a, a Baptist faith healer or a pirate or something like that, you would actually learn this shit faster.
It would actually just, it would, it would change how you did. And that’s actually what happened when I started, uh, putting, taking on these. This, uh, Captain Jack persona, so to speak, was I started the, my, my mannerisms changed. Uh, the way I spoke changed, uh, not just in terms of the accent, but in terms of, of how I constructed my sentences.
It was very, very strange and it, and it, it changed the way I look when you, when you do this with people. There’s a video on my YouTube channel. I think it’s speed healing, how to heal emotional. In, uh, I think it’s nine minutes or less, where I take a young lady and I literally walk her into her garden where all these co personalities live.
I have her step into them and, and pull the plugs on all of them, and then amplify that, the personas. She wants to have more power, and then I have her put them on. I have her step into them, like, kind of like Tony Stark steps into his Iron Man suit. Right. And then, And then just like Tony Stark stepped into his Ironman suit, he could take that Ironman suit step into his halt buster.
Right and become even more so. Literally what I had her do was she stepped into one, then she stepped into another, and she stepped into another. By the time she was done, she was a completely different person. So much so that she actually went out and changed her name twice.
you know, as a correlation to that, I, I had the years working in professional theater before getting into theater too. Yeah. Okay. So the number of times that the actor would not find the character, Until they saw themselves in the dressing room, in the mirror wearing the actual costume. You know, and even down to the extreme specifics of the, the set, the costume designers who would actually build the underwear that people would’ve had of the 15 hundreds because that’s what they’d be wearing rather than here’s your, uh, pink thong, um, you know, to, to have that experience of everything from the ground up.
Then they find the character. I’m even flashing. Of course, when I say pop culture, I have to go to Michael Palin and Monte Python, you know, insisting that most of his characters have a mustache because he didn. Because that helped him to get into it even better. Which by the way, there’s the key to, to becoming more influential.
But I love that so much of this, as much as the dialogue can be focused on influencing others, so much of it instead comes back to self of controlling our own emotional state, controlling our own state management, and going to that sort of heightened version of us. And if we have to borrow that from somewhere else, how that actually enhances us as a result.
Well, it all, at the end of the day, Jason, it always comes back to. It always comes back to self. The science is there. We are literally every moment of every day, literally programming people how to treat us, how to think about us, how to, how to catalog and position us in their minds. The, the studies by the University of Minnesota demonstrated that, that, uh, if I, if I took a man and a woman and I put them in a conversation, they were completely blind, and I gave the man an arbitrary picture and an arbitrary.
Depending on, on the, uh, you know, the, the, the attractiveness of the person in the picture. And by the way, the person in the picture was not the person they were talking to. Um, they would, they would rate that person, you know, more intelligent, more charismatic, more socially adept, more skillful, more funny, blah, blah, blah.
Now that’s almost not in two. That’s, and almost in two, we almost realize that, but that’s not the importance of that. This particular study, what they did with this study, And what they discovered was first when the man felt that he was, uh, and this went but for went both ways, for both genders. Uh, when the man felt that he was talking to someone attractive, he always rated her highly, more socially adept, more skilled, uh, more competent, blah, blah, blah.
Okay? We get that. When the, the woman receiving the communication re uh, reported how she felt about the conversation, she felt like the man on the other end of the phone saw her, understood her, got her completely. And really just, uh, vibed, so to speak. Okay. Now that’s almost intuitive too. The difference happens is when you flip it, when the man thought he was talking to a woman who has, George Carlin used to say, had a severe appearance deficit.
Um, you know, he, he almost always rated her less socially adept, more, uh, less competent, less. Interesting in any way. The woman, when, when asked about she, how she felt about that conversation, almost always reported that, uh, he felt like the, they just didn’t gel. Like there were, that he really didn’t get her, like there were, the conversation just didn’t, didn’t flow.
Things like that. That’s not even the most interesting part. Because what they did with these conversations, I remember this is all blind. Everything is artificial. There’s the, the pictures are not the person they’re talking to. The cvs are not representative of the other person. It’s all, it’s everything is blind.
They, they took the recordings of this conversations and they, they edited them, like severely edited them like aggressively to, All you had was just the woman’s responses to everything. The man. Just the woman’s responses to everything the man said. They took those recordings and they played them for a group of independent analysts, and the analysts were asked to rate the woman based solely on her responses to the man.
I, I can’t remember the exact number, but it was in the high 90%. The judged the woman exactly the way the man with the picture and the cv. Based solely on the quality of her verbal responses. That sounds, Yeah, So really driving home the meaning of the communication is the response that it gets, that here was this perception and that transcending through the dialogue.
That’s amazing. Yeah. If you think about the ramifications of that, how we think about people, programs them. To how we’re gonna be, how, how, how to respond to us in, in, in more ways than, than you could even think. There’s something going on that’s, that’s below the threshold of conscious awareness. There’s a communication that’s inherent here, and maybe it’s this, maybe it’s an info frequency, I don’t know.
But when you take just the woman’s responses and you play them for people who have, don’t have a picture that I know of, have no cv, and then they’re asked to independently rate this woman and it matches the evaluation. Of the person on the other end of the conversation, something is going on here that, that I, I believe is, is probably mediated by our proprioceptive and neuro neuron systems.
I don’t know exactly how it works, but that’s my working theory and it seems to play out in practice and application. So as we take that, let’s put that into application then. Does it start with the state management? Does it start with what we can brand as and, And when I talk rapport, I’m not talking about that you and I like each other.
It’s instead that we can communicate and move the dialogue further because that doesn’t always mean that we like each other. Where does that begin to put that in motion? It Star always starts with state. Yeah. State could, but, but an aspect of state control. One of the more advanced and subtle aspects of state control is frame control.
Mm-hmm. , how you establish meaning of an interaction. If you come into an interaction with the idea that the person you’re about to interact with is the most interesting, fascinating, uh, curious person that you’ve ever met, then you will literally prime that person to be that. and they’ll, they’ll respond and behave accordingly.
In many ways to look at how we connect with our clients. Um, you know, one of my rants is that here’s people who go, Oh, they come in with their problems, or they come in and they’ve, uh, you know, secondary gain, which is a thing at times, but probably not as widespread as someone would suggest. I, if I’m working from the mindset that this person is motivated and they’re gonna follow all the instructions and be ready to go, um, that’s every client that I.
Yeah, absolutely. You’re literally gonna pro, This is why I stopped doing the classic hypnosis pre-talk. Yeah. Because, because my belief and, and, and my results so far clinically have kind of born this out, that a lot of the things we’re taught to teach a client during the pre-talk, actually prime people to be that way.
Yes. Well, I mean, the, the phrasing of, well, you’re not going to resist the suggestions because that’s not why you’re here. If that’s not why they’re there, why are we even bringing that up? Exactly. Yeah. 80, 80, 90% of the time in my, in my, uh, intakes, I don’t even mention the word hypnosis, nlp, hmr, or anything.
Because the truth of the matter is, Jason, and you can, you can verify this from real. The truth of the matter is your clients don’t freaking care. Oh yeah. Well, well, if they did care, they’re already past that because they’ve already agreed to come to your office and pay for the service. Yeah. I tell my students and I tell my clients that, You know what?
Your clients don’t care if you wave a dead chicken over their head and staying the star Snap Beal back, banner backwards. As long as they got out of that chair, better than they got. You know, and, and that’s what it comes down to. So in my intake, which my con I, I, everybody I I work with gets a free 30 minute consultation.
And that consultation is designed for me to evaluate their suitables as a client. I’m not there to sell them. My services there to sell, they’re there to sell me on Are you good enough to be my client , You know, and, and it’s, and, and that frame reversal that just that one change of. Generates massive compliance and, and ultimately massive compliance always leads to better outcomes.
Right. And, and it switches that dynamic because again, it’s no longer it, it almost digging into the takeaway sale that they’re looking to sell you on that service, which I made that transition years ago as well. And suddenly now it’s the easy to increase the rates, easy to get greater compliance, and people are getting better results.
Absolutely. Yeah. When we bring people. Our, our job is to see, is to actually give them an experience of, of change without ever using the word hypnosis. And so, you know, when we bring them in, uh, you know, there’s a, there’s a blurb that we use that seems to work really, really well. And I’ll, and I’ll, I’ll put it out, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll speak it here.
I don’t know if you guys, if you guys do transcript or not, but this is exactly what I say to every single client who reaches out to me. We offer all prospective clients a free 30 minute consultation. To determine if your case is a fit for our methods. After you pass our screening, we’ll discuss strategies and tactics for helping you get your case, your, your, your case resolved in the shortest amount of time possible.
When you’re ready to schedule your free 30 minute consultation, give our office a call at (858) 481-1438. Uh, and so right, right from the get go, we just put that out there. That, that, you know, we’re just, cuz you call us doesn’t mean we’re gonna accept you. Uh, and if, if what we have is, and usually, and when I do in live events, what I usually add on to that is if you’re a fit, we’ll tell you.
If you’re not a fit, we’ll tell you that too, and we’ll recommend other resources that you might try that might be a better fit for you. And that, that actually puts a lot of people at ease, uh, when they come in. But when they come in, we don’t, we don’t, you know, I do, I do a, a classic from the first things we do is a classic heavy hand light.
You know, ballooned book, whatever, whatever metaphor you want to use, that’s as much of the old school hypnosis stuff as we do. Um, and I tell ’em, they’re not tests you can pass or fail. Although I took a personality test once and I failed that, uh, I get ’em laughing as much through the consultation as possible.
Uh, because as they do that, they relax more, they become more responsive. Oh, that’s, and that’s what it comes down to. Uh, it’s not about belief. That’s what I was gonna say. I tell my students your job as a therapist, Is not to get your clients to believe you, your client, your your job is to get the clients to do what you say, to follow your job as compliance, because none of the good, you know, none of your years of training takes effect until the client actually follows your instructions and does what you tell them to do.
And if you take that to its ultimate conclusion, if you have absolute compliance from a, from a, from a client, And you tell them to believe something, what’s the outcome? Well, I mean to bring it back to conditioning, and I mean something that I kind of landed on years ago of compliance, perceived suggestibility.
I need you following a set of instructions before this is gonna lead to anything even inside of reality is plastic by Anthony. He just simply says, Know the difference between instructions versus suggestions. That we have to start with one, but you’re right in terms of if we’re gonna use the word conditioning, we’re conditioning a response to then eventually get to the place where we can now land whatever technique, whatever suggestion, and that’s what gets it in motion.
Absolutely. And I like, I actually like the tweak that, uh, that Mike, man, I heard Mike Mandel use once, um, about direction, you know, giving direction instead of suggestion. And, uh, I find that that’s actually very, very, Uh, when we start directing people, even permissively, uh, we start upping our compliance dramatically.
We start thinking of the suggestions we’re delivering as direction rather than suggestion. It actually, in our minds, cements the power, makes what we’re saying more certain and therefore more likely to be carried out by a person’s nervous system. I’m curious, does that change in a conversational aspect?
It can, but. On an intention level? No. When we start making vivid descriptions with an intention for installation, that directiveness goes a little bit more stealth, but it’s still there. There’s an intention for direction or installation, and that’s what, and when we start, and we’ll talk about this in the, in the, uh, the masterclass that we’re doing out in, uh, Washington.
We’ll talk about the difference between, uh, explanation and installation. Uh, and I’ll actually do a couple drills so people can feel the differe. Because you, you can, you can prime people on one level to by just telling a story. But when you have an intention to install something, that takes it to a different, a different level.
And, and many times, uh, that’s what a lot of these high level, uh, multimillion dollar speakers, like guys like Ecker or Lease, I don’t know. I dunno if Lisa really does it that much, but, uh, I know, I know for sure Ecker does it, and Tony Robbins obviously does these. These powerful story based installations.
And there’s a feeling that you get when somebody uses an intent to install on you versus just telling a story. And one, and that’s one of the things that, that in, uh, in August, I’m gonna be doing a three day killer influence against the dark arts training, which is actually how to do cover hypnosis, but also how to protect yourself from it.
And one of the things that we’ll be teaching people is how to, how to sense that differe. Between, uh, just a basic description and a deliberate installation. Uh, it’s a, it’s a body feeling that you get and that’s actually go, you know, kind of closing the loop on state control. Going back to that frame control, which as I said was a more subtle aspect.
Of stay control is a feeling based phenomenon. It’s based on the body feelings that you have. If you have a subordinate feeling in your body, you’re gonna act subordinate in spite of your best efforts. You’re gonna be largely incongruent if you try to act dominant with a subordinate feeling in your body and vice versa.
So if we can learn how to control our feeling states through our physiology and our breathing, which is the foundation of what we’re gonna be learning in, uh, in November. Everything we do, even though we are, we have one of the most powerful and effective conversational systems on the planet. One of the reasons is, is because it’s empowered by your body states.
And once you know how to do this both on a, on a physiological level as well as a cognitive level, then you get a synergy and a hole that’s greater than the sum of the parts that fuels and powers your language and makes you extremely, extremely influential and charismatic in pretty much any context. Uh, at the end of the day, uh, the person that controls their state wins.
What I love about that is, again, going back to state that, you know, we’re a community at times that is looking for things almost as if like a magic trick that here’s, here’s the technique, here’s the principle, here’s the way that I can phrase this embedded command differently, and maybe that’ll make it better, but instead comes back to what’s underneath it.
What’s the frame? Just as important, what’s the frame that we’re setting before the frame? Uh, you know, to reference Jill Dini’s other book, Persuasion, that if we can, this is something I’ve been doing for a while too, that if I can embed the sales process before I ever go for the sale, absolutely. That thing is already done as opposed to now I’ve reached this pivot point and now here’s what it is and how much.
Absolutely. And that could drop that sales process inside. And it’s actually at that pivot point where most people lose it because they lose their. They can deliver, they can get up there. And because they’re so passionate about what they do, they can deliver this amazing content and then they get the to the point where they have to ask the people to take the next step and they become somebody else and everyth and they their energy.
I’ve seen it happen with Alist copywriters. I’ve seen John Carlton literally become a woo on stage when he went, when he transitioned from his talk to his offer that I never forgot that. Gary Halbert, I saw the same freaking thing. When he, when he was speaking at Frank Kern’s, uh, Underachiever method, that’s what it was.
And he, same thing. This is one of the, you know, two of the greatest copywriters of all time who can put these beautiful offers on page. And when they got up on stage to actually talk to a human being, they became the other guy. You know? And that’s really what it comes down to. And you’re right about state control being what everything comes.
Here’s the. With our industry is that everybody talks about state control, but nobody gives you a methodology for training state control. And that’s what I spent a good part of my life learning and, and, and kind of deciphering on how to do that. And that’s why it comes back down to two, two aspects, physiology and volition.
Most people try to utilize their willpower or their volition to modulate their emotional states. Well, that’s like trying to put out a five alarm blaze with a squirt gun. All right. It, it doesn’t work. The, the studies are there. Uh, unless you are an elite athlete, a, a special forces person or a highly trained, uh, yogi of some kind, the environment will overwhelm your neurology.
It, it will cause so much arousal that your critical faculty will check out. And the other thing we need to understand about that aspect of it is that all emotional states are trans states. Every emotional state that you’re in changes your reality. It changes your perceptual filters. And so once you understand that aspect of it, if you can prime a person’s neurology to go into a, what I would call, what I call a predicate state, a state where they’re already predisposed to viewing and processing your message in the way that’s most useful for your.
Then you don’t have to work all that hard. Just give ’em just the right information. They’ll process it the way you, you’re most likely gonna lead to the outcome and they’ll do what you want their way. And that’s goes back to state control because when you understand physiological state control and you understand the mirror neuron system and you understand how your appropriate exception kind of works with all that stuff, you can prime somebody from across the room or right in front of ’em how to feel.
And, and, and give their body, their body, state the nudge and needs to process your information exactly the way you want. And they’ll think it was their idea. And it’s, and this is something that has been, been shown, not just in the hypnotherapy world. In fact, it’s been, this has been utilized in some of the most harshest, uh, persuasion environments on the planet.
And not just the La singles bar. Uh, but actually in the courtroom, uh, you know, I’ve got about 30, 32. Personal injury attorneys. I think I’ve, I’ve worked with on, on everything from jury selection to dealing with expert witnesses and things like that. And I’ve literally seen the, that state control is the Jedi mind trick.
I’ve literally seen, you know, expert wi I have videos. I, I have, I don’t have the videos my client has, I’m not allowed to have, uh, but I have videos of my client, uh, in, uh, deposing an expert witness. And the expert witness is actually waving their attorney client p. To answer my, my client’s questions because he liked him so much.
Beautiful . It’s, it’s just crazy what you can do, and there’s no, and the best part about it is there’s no top level to this. I haven’t found one yet. This shit just keeps getting stronger. Well, what’s cool about that moment, even though that may not be, let’s say, in the wheelhouse of something that most people in our communities would need, You know, here’s that place where, let’s take the same story but change it over to the metaphor of here’s the client who’s been standing in the way of their own success coming up with every reason they can’t do it, and to do that.
And you know, for their benefit, yes, there’s gonna be some linking to the change to themselves, but also to us as the practitioner, so that next series of directions can now lead to the next step. And really just, you know, demolish whatever structure that issue used to have. You mentioned earlier that it’s not just volition, but also the, the physiology.
Um, share some thoughts on that, please. Uh, well, well, the studies are there. Oh. I mean, obviously the most recent stuff that, and that, that I’ve been quoting a lot have been the, uh, the studies by Amy Cuddy on power pose. Um, that she, she, she went and invested. I, I don’t have patience for that kind of research.
I just read the results and I’ll extrapolate from there. But I’ve been teaching, we, we’ve been teaching more advanced asked applications of that since 2005, but she did the science and that’s, that’s where I would tell most people to start. But to, to just paraphrase some of Amy’s research. Uh, and to, to address some of the, uh, inconsistencies actually that some people have found.
Um, what Amy discovered was that when you had a person hold, uh, a, a certain type of pose, like the victory pose, which even blind children seem to know, they’ve never seen it, but yet when they, when they score a victory in their life, they’ve, they’ve, they’ve won a game or something, their hands shoot up. So these postures are archetypal within our neurology.
If you hold those postures, For, uh, at least two minutes, your whole state will begin to change. So much so that it actually affects a change in the hormone release in your body. People who held these victory poses and, uh, I think one was called the Superman pose, where you have your hands on your hips. Uh, one was called the chairman of the board pose.
Uh, if people held these postures for as little as two minutes, , uh, based on blood work. And not only would they get a corresponding state change, their blood would, they would get about a 20% boost in their testosterone and a corresponding drop in their cortisol level. So not only did they become more assertive, more willing to take risks, more authoritative and more confident, they became more relaxed.
So what Amy took it a step further. She, she had people hold the, she did a, a, a blind, a double blind, I think it was a double blind study. She had a control group. She had people who. Did not do these power poses, and they had people who did these poses, and they sent, she sent them into these mock job interviews.
And these interviewers were trained to be the most non, just non, uh, expressive, uh, hardcore interviewers possibly. They were trained to give absolutely no verbal or visual feedback. They were trained to ask the tough, really tough, uh, in, uh, personal questions that were designed to just put these people in as much of a defensive state as possible.
And then after each of these, uh, these sessions, uh, the, these interviewers rated the people on, on how they did consistently. The people who went into that interview after doing a power pose scored higher than the people who did not. Um, not surprisingly. . Um, but what’s interesting is, is that you know, and, and you’ll, and your people will, the people who come to the training in November, they’ll experience this directly because we’ll put you through a series of poses and we’ll ask you to summon up all of your willpower and try and, and do your best to go into an uh, uh, the opposite state and what we see over and over and over again, if I put you in a state of victory and I have you hold that posture, And the breathing that you had in that state of victory, and then have you as an act of will without changing your posture, without changing your breathing, keeping everything about your physicality the same, try to feel bad.
They can’t do it. And the minute they try, their posture wants to shift, and as long as they have enough cognitive resources to keep their potty in the right posture, they will stay in the positive state. Now, that’s huge for our vendors because. Most of us have shitty posture. If you look at the, if you, you know, just doesn’t aside look at what’s the, what’s the, the physiology of somebody who’s depressed.
Yeah. They’re slumped over. There’s a lack of eye contact and, you know, we can, we can build the assumption, We could build the stereotype, yet here’s what that posture becomes. Yeah. If you wanna see how fast they shift out of it, make them stand up straight, like, Within two minutes, they won’t be depressed anymore.
They may be pissed, but they won’t be depressed. , here’s the other corollary to this, and, and this is a kind of a squirrel, but you know, squirrel chasing, but as an aside, true or false, depression is one of the most prevalent problems facing Americans today. I’d say true. Okay. Have you ever looked at the posture of somebody on a cell phone?
Hmm. Yep. . Now here’s, here’s, here’s the interesting corollary. When you hold a cell phone in your hand, your body gives you this huge pleasure rush. I think it’s dopamine that gives you the, and it kind of counteracts the, the effect of that posture. But what happens when you put the cell phone down, all of a sudden you start Jones in.
So you have this pleasure depression cycle. The physiology of holding that phone puts you in a depressive state, but the dopamine rush from the cell phone makes you feel good. The minute you put the cell phone down, you start feeling anxious.
So to look at that, I’m, I’m running that through the filters of the research that was done recently that people smoking. The biggest rush is right before they light. Which look at that posture that it’s coming right up. I’m laughing because, uh, when I, when I’m doing videos, there’s a very specific, you know, anchored sequence that I run, uh, right before the video takes off, which, if you’ve seen the TV show Marvelous, Mrs.
Maisel. I’ve heard of it. I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet. There’s, um, you know, it’s this posture, almost that superhero pose. There’s a clap and the chest is out and I’m watching this TV show of this, uh, 1950s comedian. And of course in that context, their anchor is the phrase, Alright. Tis up. It’s like, well,
It’s like, there you go. That’s working. . And it was, and we all have, all of all, all the top performers I’ve ever, I’ve ever observed have something that they do. They have some physiological ritual, some physiological trigger that they engage. Or maybe it’s not a physiological trigger, it’s a psychological or a, a turn or phrase.
But the minute they, they flip that trigger their physiology shift. And when the physiology shifts, the state engages. And this is the big thing because we’re taught in this country that our mind controls our body. That’s true enough to be true, but only if you’re trained. The vast majority of people out there are not.
They’re at effect to their physiology. And if you don’t understand that feedback loop, You’re gonna be running west looking for a sunrise because the minute the environment triggers a specific level of emotional arousal, that critical faculty’s gonna get overwhelmed. You’re gonna check out. But if you understand physiology, you can always, unless you’re tied up , you can always change your physiology and get control.
That’s the, the secret to this is functionally your physiology controls your psychology. If someone’s in a, in a panic state, few state, they’re, they’re losing their, their, their cookies. If I can get their physiology, Upright solid. It will, it will interrupt that pattern and allow them the ability to access their cognitive resources so they can actually affect change on a cognitive level.
But if I can’t, if I can’t access those, but they can’t access those cognitive resources, they can’t do anything you tell them to do. So, uh, you know, one time I had, you know, I had a kid come in, his mom, I don’t know why his mom brought him to me. He was, uh, recovering from, from, uh, heroin. He was a, a chronic user and he, she had, she had come to one of my meetups and thought I could help her son, and I brought, I brought him in and I did a couple of sessions with him and he really, really got some good results from that.
And then he went off and did his own. And then one day I get this phone call from his mom who’s just freaking out. He’s curled up in a fetal position. He doesn’t wanna go through withdrawal. He’s uh, he doesn’t wanna go see a psychologist, Can I help? And I’m like, Fuck, what do I ? Pardon my French. But you know, I’m like, Okay.
Uh, Bring him in. So she brought him in and the guy walked in. He was a little, he’s quite a bit taller than me actually. He come in and he, he, he was literally bent in half. That’s how depressed and, and in his state this guy was. And, and literally, I, I knew right away that talking to him was gonna be pointless because every psychologist on the planet had already told him, You should feel good, it should be this bad, and blah, blah, blah.
So I just, I just attacked his physiology. I literally walked up to him, put my hand in the small of his back, put my hand on his shoulders. Uh, popped his, his spine straight, the gum until he was like, till he, yeah, literally till he was like upright like a soldier. And in sec he, he actually wasn’t even a sec.
He burst out laughing. Just, just the posture shift, trashed the state. You know, when I was in, uh, And we were able to do some good stuff with him. Uh, you know, when I was back in acupuncture school, most people know I’m about licensed acupuncturist. Uh, I had a client come in, This is again back there, my captain Jack, the acupuncturist phase, and where I was experimenting with all this stuff because when you’re, when you’re an intern in medical school, um, You’re basically bulletproof cuz they expect you to fuck up.
They expect you to, they expect you to make mistakes. So I figure well, if I’m gonna work with hypnosis and acupuncture, maybe this is a good place to do it. So one day I’m coming into the clinic and, uh, I’m, I’m, I’m approaching one of the treatment rooms. As I open the, as I go, as I’m approaching the treatment room, the door opens and one of my fellow interns comes out.
And they look at me and they’ve got this look on their face like, Oh, I’m glad it’s you. Uh, and I’m like, Oh, what are you giving me now? And he, they hand me the chart. I don’t, I can’t remember this day if it was a man or woman, but I know they had this look on their face like, Oh, I don’t, I’m glad you, I’m glad you’re dealing with this and not me.
I walk in and there’s this young man, he’s about early thirties, maybe late twenties, early thirties. He’s just like the guy with the heroin addiction literally slumped over. But this guy was deep in, in depression, deep in. And as I’m doing the intake, uh, com, I find out that, um, a, um, his partner, he was a homosexual, his partner had just died of aids, and he had just been diagnosed with hiv.
And so here I am looking at this guy and I know enough about the nocebo and the placebo effects and everything else to know that I had to change this guy’s state. I if, if the acupuncture was gonna make a. I was gonna have to, uh, do some rather unusual things. So the first thing I did, because I, I’d been practicing these physiological state control drills that we’ll be sharing in November, I literally assumed his posture I had to go, I, I had to go into it with him.
I had to connect with him at his most deepest level with grief. And I kept going and I kept going and I kept going until I felt it. So, I felt that quick that let me know, and you’ll understand this. When you do the training, let me know. I had physiological rapport with him. Now, one of the things I do when I work with clients is, uh, and this goes back to kind of why we’re talking today, is, uh, you know, utilizing conversational hypnosis before the actual hypnosis starts.
Uh, well, there was never any overt hypnosis in my internship dates. I was all covert or conversational. So once I had his state, once I, once I knew I had him, I kept talking, I used, uh, a variation of what we call the echo technique. And then I slowly increment by, increment by, I began to change my physiology, just thin slices, until I finally had him sitting upright.
And as he, as I did that, his state started to change, it started to lighten. He started to, I wouldn’t say he got happy, but he, he, he, he, he got a lot less hurt. He hurt a lot less is get, I guess, the best way to. From that point on, I knew I could reach it. I knew I had, I had an AC access to his unconscious, both on a, on a cognitive level, a physiological level, and an emotional level.
And so I put him on the table. And one of the things I did in acupuncture school was, um, I would use conversation hypnosis techniques during the intake. And then when it came time out, I dunno if you’ve ever had an acupuncture session, but you’d lay them on the table. Uh, usually they have a gown on, usually under a heat.
And you go and you, you put the needles in the points and after the, the, the needles are in the points. You have to leave ’em sit under the, or sleep under the heat lamp for anywhere, depending on the system of acupuncture. 20, 40, 60 minutes. Uh, 60 minutes is kind of long, but every now and then it happens.
So what I would do is as I was needling the points, and one of the interesting thing about, about this comes from book by Felix man on acupuncture is that I learned this a long time ago, was that when you needle an acupuncture point, the brain automatically dips into an alpha state anyway. So they’re already hyp nago.
So I’d had a, I had deep rapport. He was gonna go, I knew he was gonna go into a hypnogogic state anyway, so what I did was, as I needle each point, I, I described what each point did using hypnotic language. And so I went around the entire table describing each point using the seven language patterns and others that will be learning in November.
And then when he, when he was all prime. I had him close his eyes and I said, Now I’m gonna teach you a very special ancient Chinese meditation technique. I want you to close your eyes and relax the tiny muscles in your eyelids to the point where they just won’t work. Right? And I, you know, I went through the process.
I left him on the table, and when he came out, he was actually smiling and happy, and felt much more alive and, and much more hopeful about. Um, and, and I did, and that’s one of the, the more extreme cases of having to use state control first. But by and large, the first thing I would do after I got, you know, I got them to the table and I, and I, I would always tell them what the points did based, based on my understanding of acupuncture, using hypnotic language.
And then I would finally finish that up with a formal meditation or giong practice. We all know it as the element induction, of course, but, but, uh, you know, and they would get off that table feeling like a million. You know, and, and that’s kind of what I didn’t through most of my, my acupuncture training and I had 1500, 11, 11 15 hours I think of, of actual clinical training that I, which anyone out there could take that same formula and you know, my nickname of it is going placebo on techniques that actually work.
That we’re, we’re putting the filters on top of a method that, you know, we’re selling the whole way through. That here’s the result. This is gonna have, this is why we’re doing it on this specific day. And taking something that was already well researched, but now framing it in such a way to get an even powerful, more powerful result.
Uh, David, we’re coming up on, uh, time here. And I’ll put in the links over in the show notes, the class that’s coming up in November, which actually we’ve made it simple. Uh, David Snyder dc.com. That’s gonna be November 16th to 18th here in the, uh, greater DC area. Uh, any final thoughts as we’ve been talking about, uh, influence and conversational hypnosis and in state management to leave the audience with?
Well, I think if you learned nothing else but how to do the state control drills that you’re gonna learn in. You’re gonna see an ex, and this is honest, don’t, you don’t have to believe what I say when I say this, but test it. You’re gonna see an exponential increase in the compliance that you get from people.
You’re gonna see a huge bump in in treatment outcomes because you’ll understand that the most important thing in any hypnosis interaction is what you do with your body and the feeling states in your body. Everything human beings do conscious or unc. Is in response to a feeling that they have. It’s either a feeling they want more of, or a feeling they want a whole lot less of to take that even further.
They’re more affected by the feelings they’re unaware of than the feelings they are, and that’s what state control allows you to do, is to give P person sensations and messages and feelings that they may or may not be conscious of, but still affect them and prime them to be more responsive and receptive to your message.
And so that’s where we’re gonna start with our conversation, hypnosis training, and then we’re gonna take you through all six phases of what we call the Universal Persuasion Protocol. And then we’re gonna get really hardcore and show you some, uh, some really cool conversational hypnosis. I hate to use this word, it sounds like almost unethical, but hacks that we can use to really take our, our conversational OSIS skills.
To a whole new level and, and make it more cross contextual. To me, it’s not enough, Jason, that this stuff, you can only use this stuff therapeutically. To me, hypnosis is a life skill and if we’re not utilizing all the skills we have to make every aspect of our life better, we’re leaving a huge part of our power on the table.
So if people wanna make, get more of what they want, less of what they don’t, I invite you to come on out. Join me and Jason. In November for our conversation, Li Masterclass.
Jason Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for leaving your feedback online for sharing this on your social media streams, writing reviews everywhere you possibly can. And once again, sharing the stage this week. Head over to David Snyder dc.com now, make sure you head over there right away because there’s some really cool, rather generous.
Early admission promos that are available for those that sign up for this event. Uh, we’re actually already nearing a bit of capacity on this event is already so many people were interested traveling in already from all over the country For this specific event, if you haven’t spent time yet with David, you’re gonna see exactly why he draws the crowd that he does.
And if you’ve already spent time with him, uh, you’ll see that there’s already a few folks who have done this class exactly and they’re coming back. Even more so, power up your persuasion and really master your own influence with conversational hypnosis in this masterclass. Check it out, David Snyder dc.com.
See you soon. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.