Marian Spurgeon joins me today to share her hypnosis approach of working with clients through an organic trance. She reveals how and why she works without scripts and highlights the ways in which she frames hypnosis and the trance state during the pre-talk. She shares her experiences of working with people with chronic illnesses and how she uses a tuning fork within her hypnotherapy sessions. Marian also describes the business strategies she is using to drive business, including referrals and networking on LinkedIn.
Marian is the Owner of Quad Cities Hypnosis, where she helps people resolve their emotional and physical health problems with a client-centric approach. Marian is a Certified Consulting Hypnotist of the National Guild of Hypnotherapists and a member of the International Certification Board of Clinical Hypnotherapists. An instructor of Stephanie Conkle’s Profound Somnambulism Protocol, she is now working on a protocol of her own, which she expects to start teaching in 2020.
“When people open their eyes, I think they are just as deep as they are with their eyes closed.” – Marian Spurgeon
- Why Marian chooses organic trance over formal inductions.
- What submodalities are and how to use them to breakdown reality.
- Methods of dissociating clients from their problems.
- What it means if a client opens their eyes.
- Setting up ‘trance’ expectations in the phone conversation and pre-talk.
- Giving clients self-hypnosis techniques that they can take home with them.
- Changing the way clients experience physical things when working with chronic illnesses.
- How to use tuning forks for metaphors or for instant inductions.
- Strategies for cultivating business through referrals and networking.
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Podcast Episode Transcripts:
Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.
This is the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast, session number 217 Marion Spurgeon on organic trance. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Does this sound good to. How do you feel that in your body?
Hey, it’s Jason Lynette here and inside of this week’s session, it’s really featuring someone who some of you may know yet. I imagine many of you don’t yet know that Marion Spurgeon is someone who’s been, uh, really making a name for herself in recent months and years in the hypnotic profession. And as I like to say, is really out there as a hypnotic worker.
So someone is out there teaching and instructing others. Clearly is really, as they say in the trenches doing the work and doing some outstanding, uh, change work and getting some really phenomenal results. And through some recent conversations online, whether it’s the shape of how she runs her business, or the ways that the information she began with as a hypnotist has begun to morph and change over the years, became every reason that I just had to have her on the podcast.
And you are in for a real treat listening to this conversation of getting into the ins and out. Of the framing of hypnosis, how it is that we talk about hypnosis, how it is that we talk about trans, how to transition from perhaps that incoming phone call to the pre-talk, to the actual change work. And then building out a network where you’ll hear some of the business strategy in this call too, where she’s chatting about how there are some third and fourth level referrals now.
Really helping to drive the business to what she does. I’ll put links in the show notes [email protected] to Marion’s website to some of the other training resources that we mentioned here inside of this conversation. For those that are gonna be attending the 2019 Hypno Thoughts Live convention or the MidAmerica Hypnosis Conference in the Chicago area, do your best to be there in the room learning from Marion, who’s again, a real true worker in this profession.
And while you’re online too, check out Hy. Business systems.com. We chat about it briefly, and this is where I’ve chronicled the full roadmap to how I’ve built a multiple six figure hypnosis business. Everything from the ground up, whether it’s finding space or coming soon in the space to buying your own space and what that all entails to.
Then of course, getting into the strategies of networking and pricing and some of the online methodologies to really get in there, and I’m. To do what Marion talks about in terms of LinkedIn. That’s that kind of, um, side, uh, social media platform that I’m really not making use of, at least in my hypnosis business.
That’s going well for the speaking yet to just simply reach out, make that connection in a non salesy, I hate to say this, but non systematic way that will chat about in this conversation. So check out Hy. Business systems.com for the details on that program. But with that, let’s jump directly into this really content rich conversation.
This is episode number 217 Marion Spurgeon on organic Trance.
You know, we were chatting for a moment about the idea of learning, you know, formal hypnotic inductions in Deepeners, and yet over time it becomes this experience where it’s much more organic, that the induction simply becomes, we’re just talking to the client. Uh, what, what are your thoughts on that in terms of how things have taken shape in your office in recent, in recent, Yeah.
Um, so I actually tend to work without a lot of formal induction, um, because I’ve noticed that when I talk to people, they actually just tend to drop into trance very quickly and very easily just by the fact that I’m talking to them and they’re thinking about trance and they’re paying attention to me.
It’s like, uh, they’re attention as a in trained to my voice. So, um, in my pretax, I always frame hypnosis as this normal experience that we go in and out of all the time and it’s something that we can use to do what we want, but oftentimes it’s something that we experience just incidentally. So, I’m here to show you how to use that intentionally to do whatever you want and just, you know, listening to me talk about this.
People start going into a trans and, and then I ask them if they’re. And we go from there. And I’m very conversational sometimes. I mean, most people that I work with, they tend to enjoy it and with their eyes closed, but sometimes people like to do it with their eyes open. And that doesn’t even fuss me because I’ve, uh, worked with so many people that have done it both ways and I don’t really see any difference in the result.
And I like to. Um, I really like to educate people that trance is an experience that they can enjoy in any way that they like. It’s their trance, not my trance. So, um, and I feel like that’s kind of a, an empowering way to hold it too. And just to highlight a beautiful little bit of influence that’s inside of there.
You can enjoy the trance in any way you like, which is presupposing that they’re going to enjoy it, but now becomes their definition as to what that enjoyment actually is. Right. And that’s good. Yeah. . Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Like, um, you know, I think when I first. Started, I, I thought, well, if somebody’s eyes pop open, that means they’re popping out of it.
But now I don’t think that at all. Like I, uh, I had somebody yesterday that he would, he was just like, I, I wanna open my eyes. He wanted to look into my eyes because like looking into my eyes was taking him deeper. So, Um, that, that’s whatever you wanna do, ma’am. . Um, and so speaking of just like the organic process, um, so what I like to do is I like to just, uh, talk to people and get them into this nice focused, relaxed state.
And then I like to ask them, uh, something maybe along the. Depending on what it is of like, how do you know that you have the problem or where are you experiencing the problem in the body? And, and it could be like in the body, it could be in the mind, it could be somewhere outside of the body. But in any case, how do you know that you’re having that problem?
And then, um, and then whatever it comes up around that, we begin to work with that. And I think ly everyone is familiar with working with like sub modalities. Like so, you know, how do you experience that problem? And, um, oh, there’s another little touch that, just to throw in a quick sidebar there, just to round it out.
For those that aren’t familiar with sub modalities, it’s basically breaking down the existence of reality and the individual building blocks. So to ask somebody, you know, how do you feel that in your body, they may give you a location, they may give you, uh, a color, a temperature, some sort of metaphor, which is, is there some answer that kind of stands out to help elaborate on that for those that are new to that?
Yeah. Um, so somebody, Say, Oh, I feel that craving in my chest or in the back of my mouth, or, um, or I feel that thought process going on in a certain part of my head. And then, and then what I’ll do is I’ll ask them, , um, to just experiment and see if they can change that. They may not be able to completely eliminate it right away.
And oftentimes asking them to do that right away will create a little bit of resistance cuz they’re like, Man, I have this problem. But if you , if you take that thing and you can say, Well, can you change this size? The shape or the color? Can you move it? Can you put it somewhere else? Could you put it somewhere else inside your body or could you put it somewhere outside of your body?
What wants to happen with that? Another thing, I have a question set. I don’t know if other people, before you get to the question set, are you, are you asking anything to get them into that state or just assuming it’s already. Uh, what do you mean? So in terms of asking them where do you feel that in your body?
What does that feel like? Yeah. How do you know you have the problem? Are you asking them anything to associate into that in these moments? Um, uh, they’re, they’re already, they’re in a light trans, cuz we’ve had our little transy pre-talk induction and like yeah. I just, yeah. I presuppose that they know where it is and if they don’t know where it is, then I will work with that.
But I, that happens hardly ever. Mm-hmm. hardly ever. , Um, oh, I, you know, I mean, so, okay, so sometimes I’ll get somebody that’s like really up in their head and, you know, maybe somebody, like a lawyer or somebody that, that thinks a lot for their job and, and sometimes rather than associating into the problem, they will be distracted by their thought process.
They’ll be like, Oh, I’m afraid I’m not doing this right for you because my mind is. and then I will just treat that as what to work with. So I’ll be like, And what’s that like when your mind is racing? What is a good metaphor for that? Oh, it’s like a merry go round. And is that merry go round going fast or slow, or how is it going?
It’s going fast. And so then I’ll say, Can you slow it down? Um, would you be able to slow it down? Would you be able to slow it down? Would it be okay to just walk away from that over here to where it’s quieter and then that will associate them from the distracting thing. So whatever comes up, I treat that as the thing to work with.
Mm-hmm. ? Um, what I love about that is that where we keep coming back to is that organic. Trans state, that organic experience of that, that rather than, Oh, I, I’d give a description and yes, let me call out the book. I got it from, uh, which is not to say the book is not good because it’s phenomenal. It was just not good in the scenario that I used it.
So my fault, uh, there’s somewhere is in one of the omni hypnosis books from Jerry Kind, uh, a Bism Teeth grinding script, which, uh, I believe, if I remember it right, includes the phrase, Now, the reason you grind your teeth at night is because you’re angry at the world around you, . Now, admittedly, this is like 12 years ago, before I knew better, and I read that to a client and he opened his eyes and he goes, No, I’m not
Which maybe Jerry was just attracting a lot of, um, you know, angry teeth, grinders, and maybe that was the hit, but this one wasn’t uhhuh. But by just asking those questions as soon as they give you something to work with, I love that mindset of can you just make it smaller? Can you walk away from it? And yeah, you know, piggyback it with the standard.
What’s different now? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, um, the other thing that I like about this is it sh it gives them a great deal of confidence in the experience that they’re having, that they can’t do it wrong, that they’re doing it right, however it is, is right. Um, and, and I just kind of, uh, adapt my process to their process.
rather than trying to fit them into a certain way. Yeah. Um, and so, okay, so here are some other questions that I use to kind of disassociate them from the problem. Um, one of them is, did this originate with you? I think that, um, yeah. So, uh, a lot of. I, I will work with people. Uh, uh, and I, I wanna say is like a lot of times the people that I work with that come in are having like medical problems, uh, that are responsive to hypnosis.
Like oftentimes these problems originated from some emotional thing that, uh, that was passed on to them, like either from society or intergenerationally. and so asking, Did this come from you or does this belong to you? Uh, then they can think about that, and then if they say no, then I can just ask them, Well, can you just like send it back to where it came from?
Hmm. Not that you’re like wishing that problem on someone else, but you’re just kind of like denying response, not taking it. I don’t have to keep that on, just like recognize that that’s not yours. Okay. I can leave that. Um, it’s really great for like, you know, projections or. Whatever. Or if, and if it says, if they say, Okay, yeah, that does belong to me, that did originate with me, then cool.
Then we just like go on with more questions. Um, do you need it? Because a lot of times when we have a problem, there’s some role that it is fulfilling for us. Um, I only think about that and sometimes. They will say yes at first, and then when we work with it more with the sub modalities, then they’ll realize that they don’t need it anymore.
Or if they say that they do need it. I might say, Uh, so what are you getting out of it and is there another way that you could get that out of that? Or is there another way that you could get that for yourself? And, um, so anyway, yeah. And then what’s really cool about that, what’s really cool about that is that we can often reverse engineer techniques that.
You know, I’ve had that dialogue with students at times about, and I love always the question of, would you use hypnosis or NLP for that? The answer is my standard of yes. Mm-hmm. . But to look at the core of that, you know, you’re, you’re indirectly or perhaps directly modeling what happens inside of a six step reframe.
Mm-hmm. , if we want, if we wanna go the jargon on this and pull out the technique of it’s giving you something, what are, what is that intentional need? What is that need inside? Mm-hmm. , what are better ways to satisfy that, but letting it now flow. More naturally rather than going and now let us begin this next technique,
Right, exactly. I do it in such a way that it doesn’t feel like I’m applying a technique. And then the other thing is that as we’re doing this, sometimes the sensations move around in their body. Like a lot of times if I’m working with something that is like, um, Like, for example, a peripheral neuropathy or some sort of pain was in the body.
A lot of times when we start doing this, the pain or the numbness or the tingling will start moving around in the body and then we just follow it. And it’s really interesting to me, a lot of times, uh, the emotional content that comes up when we’re working like this is kind of related to kind of like, Symbolic meaning of the different body parts.
I mean, you know, uh, for example, you know, the heart represents love or the feet represent being connected to the ground and connected to reality. Um, so that’s very interesting. Um, so what other questions do I ask? I ask him, Well, I wanna go back for a moment if you don’t mind, to the, to the pre-talk. That trance is one of those words.
That the, the quick anecdote to set this up is that years ago I was hosting a meetup event and we just, you know, conversationally mentioned trance because we were a collection of hypnotists. Now, this next story is not meant to judge the person involved, but it was a room of 30 hypnotists and one person who was not a hypnotist, but also identified as a psychic medium.
Mm-hmm. now from her world. Trans meant something very, very differently than what we assumed it to be. And 20 minutes later I had to go. Okay, so we’re here to talk about stop smoking strategies, , where again, it’s a word that I, I’d share. There’s a, there’s a playful Dracula theme I use in my office at times, which is kind of an update.
on, you know, words that we as hy
pnotists are perhaps not supposed to use, that you’re not supposed to say someone’s under hypnosis. Mm-hmm. yet. If you’re back my office, it’s the second week and you’re going, Yeah, this has been amazing. I spoke at work and I felt really confident and man, last week when I was under hypnosis, that was incredible.
Mm-hmm. , I’m not gonna stop and correct you on that because you’ve now identified that language is okay with you, and trance is one of those words that I, I kind of follow a similar pattern that I don’t necessarily. Bring up. But it sounds that you are really layering that in to highlight the definitions.
And we might be using the same definitions, just using different words. What are you doing in the pre-talk to really set up that expectation. Um, and when I first get people on the phone is where my pre-talk begins. Nice. I always, always, Um, talk to them about my definition and actually I weave it in with the APA definition of hypnosis, which is that, uh, it’s a state of heightened focus with reduced peripheral awareness where people are more open to suggestions.
Um, but. But also my definition is I’ll give them some examples. I’ll be like, You know how you are going about your day and maybe your hand just put something somewhere without your mind realizing it, that that’s like kind of a split awareness going on. And so that’s why you don’t remember where you put.
Or, uh, you know how when you’re driving a car and you just automatically hit the brake when you get to the stop sign, you don’t have to consciously think that you need to do that because you have, you know, trained your, your subconscious knows that set of instructions of what to do when, if this, then that.
So, Um, and it’s also just a, a process of, uh, programming. I use the metaphor programming a lot, programming your mind in the way that you want. Nice. So then when does that word actually tend to show up in that dialogue then? Uh. In the, in the phone conversation. Yeah. Got in the phone conversation. Yeah. And I, and then I repeat, I, I repeat the pre-talk that I give them on the phone in person a little bit more.
Usually I’ll say, Oh, do you remember me talking about hypnosis? And I’ll be like, Oh no, I want you to tell me again. So , I do, it’s like, just like part of the ritual. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . I wanted to go back to a couple of things that you mentioned earlier that, uh, the eyes pop open, or even eyes open hypnosis, which some would have the vision of just someone blankly staring off into the wall, um, or looking into the eyes.
What, what does that, if you had to describe that experience, what does that tend to play out? What do you mean? What’s that experience of working with someone with their eyes? With their eyes open? So when people open their eyes, I think that they’re just as deep as there when they’re close. Mm-hmm. , I mean, like, I just, you can kind of see a glaze.
There’s, um, Yeah, I’ve, Or sometimes I even see people do rem with their eyes open. I’ve had people say that they were having visual experiences of things that weren’t happening with their eyes open. So I don’t, I don’t really get fussed about the eyes. Yeah. Does that change the experience for you in any way?
Well, at, at at first, you know, if I’m not expecting something to happen, it could startle me. I don’t really get startled by anymore because I’m kind of more.
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t get startled by by that. Or even really, you know, if some big emotional thing kind of gets stumbled upon, that doesn’t really startle me anymore. I don’t, I don’t have a lot. Oh, also, here’s something that I wanna put out there, is that, um, so when I first got trained in hypnosis, I, I had some fears around, uh, am I able to hurt someone with this or can anything bad happen or even like, am I adhering to the local laws and regulations and all of that?
And. . Um, I have worked very hard to, uh, to create an authentic space of confidence and safety in the way that I hold all of this, because I believe that that’s like integral to providing an awesome experience for my clients. Like if I have any little bit of fear in me, they can pick that up. So I. That if, uh, an abreaction were to begin to occur, we are safe because I am coming from a place of really deep-rooted safety.
Mm-hmm. , where does that come from for you? Um, if you had, if you had to teach somebody how to draw that out, if you had to inspire that with others or help them realize they already have it, how would you unpack that? Yeah, I would say that it is my connection to my body and my connection to the Earth.
Mm-hmm. , that is, um, that’s just basically how I conceptualize it. So if you had to get someone else to get to that state or help them to realize it may be something else for them, how would you define that? Well, um, All right, so I wanna say that most people have had the experience of feeling safe. I have had one client that I worked with once that said that she could not remember any time in her physical experience where she felt safe, but that’s the outlier.
Mm-hmm. if, if somebody needs to feel, I don’t wanna come back to that. I’m . Um, well, most people can remember a time that they felt safe, and that’s the easiest way to go. If, if they don’t connect with the metaphor of connecting to the ground or connecting to their body if they don’t feel safe in their body.
You could also just say, Can you remember a time when you felt safe? Because if you can remember any time, you can just go there now. Um, uh, what, where were you about that? Um, about, uh, helping others. I mean, I brand it as, and I, and I use bold language just cuz that motivates me. But that mindset of unstoppable confidence.
Yeah. That no matter, no matter what your backstory was, the fact that you’re in your, the office here today means that, one, you’re not there. And two, you’re already on board of wanting to change that. Yeah. So you’re already that survivor, that, that totally advocate that hero of your own story. It’s just helping you realize that you’re already there and let’s catch you up to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, so being safe, So, uh, yeah, and, and also, yeah, here you are safe right now. Uh, one of the things that I often do when I start out, my, my ritual too is, um, anchoring in a happy, safe place. So, Just before we do anything else, I’ll be like, you can, you can imagine it could be real or imagined.
It could be a place indoors or outdoors, somewhere where you feel totally in, completely safe. And then I anchor that to Happy Safe Place and I tell people that they can go there if I say that phrase or if they find a need to go there. Mm-hmm. . And you know, it’s really cool. This works. Um, I was visiting a friend.
I love sentence . I was like, You know what’s great? This stuff works, . It works, it works. I mean, it works in a way that’s a lot more far reaching than I might think of just putting it in people’s minds. But like, I was visiting a friend in the hospital a couple of months ago and she had this really bad injury and changing her.
Um, bandages required like massive meds and it was just horrible. And, um, she did that. She did that without me even telling her to. We had worked together before and she just went to her happy, safe place when they were changing the bandages and the nurses were so impressed. Mm-hmm. , um, is just like a tiny little thing.
It takes like two seconds to anchor. Um, you’re doing that off of a phrase typically? Pardon? Are you doing that off of the phrase Happy safe place. Yep. Happy safe place. Yeah. There’s, uh, you mentioned the idea of just something being easier than we’d often expect it to be, and there’s, there’s one little bit of influence that I’ve found is crept my way into the process over the years, which is that if I can, and the simple thing, this is right out of metamodel questioning, if I can have you think about the issue differently than you ever have before.
That’s one of the biggest sort of, you know, foot in the doors of the actual change process that mm-hmm. you brought up earlier that, you know, does the process, does the problem originate with you? Mm-hmm. , if conversationally, we can get to the place where you picked up the cigarettes because other people were doing it, so technically they didn’t belong to you in the first place.
In today’s way, you put them down, they go, Oh, yeah. I’m like, well, I, I wasn’t born a smoke. Like, then you’re saying like disassociate them from the identity of being a smoker. There, there, there’s a cheat respectfully, uh, around the, I’ve never felt happy. I’ve never felt safe. Mm-hmm. , which I even I at times I’m going, It shouldn’t be this easy to hedge that off
But the little phrase is clearly because you know you want to feel that way, it’s somewhere in the vocabulary of your mind and body. Otherwise you wouldn’t know you wanted it. Oh dude, you. Took my point. I was bigger at point. I actually, here’s how I would say it. Um, uh, Do I stop there? Phrase it right.
Okay. That’s good. But here’s how I do it better. . No. Here, here’s, here’s how I would say it. I say, let your awareness of what is wrong. Create a pattern of what is right. Nice. Yeah. But I like the way you said it too. That’s totally valid. Two options. . Well, it’s the flexibility of it too that I, I, I give out copies of Roy Hunter’s Art of Hypnosis to my students and I openly tell them like, This is a really great book and I’m gonna point out the stuff that I disagree with, but I really like Roy’s work.
Mm-hmm. , which is little nuances of, he says, totally tolerant, non-smoker, and I can’t put those words in my mouth and sound human. Yeah, they sound really good when he says them, but I can’t say them and sound normal. Uh, yet. Just move on as if you don’t care about them anymore. . That’s the Jason words around that.
So again, the, Yeah, I do that too. I mean, that’s why I don’t use scripts anymore. Mm-hmm. , because I can’t, like, it has to be my words for me to deliver authentically. If it’s somebody else’s words, that just doesn’t work as well for me. Yeah. Well, I mean to look at them as, I always tend to say that we look at the script as if it was a transcript of one specific session.
With one specific practitioner. With one specific client on that one specific day. Mm-hmm. , now we at least can start to draw some lines around, Okay, maybe they talked about this theme earlier. Yeah, maybe they brought this in. I had referenced James Hazelrigg has this beautiful extended story around, uh, the freed slave being asked if he’d work for the plantation again.
And I had a, a class one time go off on the rails around. I would never bring up themes of slavery. And sure enough, the first stop smoking client I had back after the class goes, You know, I just feel like I’ve been a slave of this thing for so many years. like, Well, we’re going there today, . Oh man, that’s funny.
Yeah. So to, to look at the framing of the process that we talked about earlier, that on the phone you’re setting up a different expectation of trance. This mindset of here’s how you’re already doing it. Yeah. Is there, is there a story that stands out of working with a client or, I know that, you know, before we began, you were talking briefly about, um, you know, having a really, you know, transformational process as a client yourself.
So whether it’s something of yours or something a client has reported back to you about that. Perhaps from that framing perspective to look at the same situation, but from a very different, uh, lens as it were. Yeah. Um, I just, I think that the problems that we have like are just. The be just, uh, chances that we’re stuck in that we don’t even know how to change.
Once we start thinking about the, the possibility that it can be changed, then our mind just begins to immediately start working on those solutions. Mm-hmm. and from these strategies we talked about, you know, to break it down, if we wanted to put it in technique terms mm-hmm. , looking at it in terms of a parts model, the six step reframe, sub modalities.
Are you ever modifying these things? Self hypnosis strategies that the clients are able to take with them? Oh yes. I always do that. Um, I always, I always try to send them home with at least two or three things that they can do. I’m a big fan of EFT and bilateral stimulation. Um, and also I, I just show people how they can kind of work through that to step reframe, and they do.
I’m actually. I’m often really pleased when I get returning clients that come back and say that they’ve been using the things that I didn’t even necessarily prescribe them to. They just kind of figured it out from our session work. So’s lovely. Yeah. Is there a story of that experience specifically of someone saying, Here’s what I learned from you and it wasn’t even something you formally said.
Now here’s a strategy you can do on your own. I mean, like, yeah, that friend in the hospital, that’s definitely a, uh, an example of that. And also, you know, just people talking about, well, I do explicitly educate people about how to work with their cravings and that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. , um, I don’t know. Not, not coming up with an example about that.
Sorry. Is there a specific, um, type of issue you’d say, if you had to nail it down to say this is one of the things you work best with, what would that be? Chronic illness. That’s what I’m very interested in. Uh, like fibromyalgia, ib. Uh, chronic fatigue syndrome, all these sort of, um, poorly understood and not very well addressed in western medicine, and often have an emotional component or at least seem to, and we go into hypnosis and work with them.
But even if they don’t just working in hypnosis, we can change the way that you experience physical things. So changing that experience of living with it begins to change the thing we actually live with. Yeah. Yep. Yep. How do you, how do you often go about doing that? Well, I mean, uh, just going back to that process that I started outlining at the beginning here.
I mean, how do you know that you have the problem? And then, and then we follow it through the body. I’ve done it that way and I’ve also done it with, uh, Stephanie Conwell’s, P S p, um, to Nomism protocol. And it depends really on the, the situation and the client that I’m working with. Some people just kind of naturally work very well in that way, in those deep trans states.
Um, and it’s interesting to talk to the subconscious about those illnesses directly cuz it has like this, I don’t know, I, um, hearing it talk about the illness as an entity, just as a unified entity is really interesting. Um, I, I had a subconscious mind describe fibromyalgia as like a, a dark star or like a black hole that was just sucking energy in.
And we kind of chased it around the body and it said that it was like, Uh, almost like a knot of thread that whenever we would untangle it one place it would get bunched up somewhere else. And, um, and this was actually like an in, uh, an instance where I found it helpful. Uh, oftentimes when I’m doing this process, I will also use tuning forks, which is a nice thing for me to mention because I’m actually giving a talk about tuning forks twice later this year.
Uh, once at Hypno Thoughts and one at Mider. Um, in October. Yeah. And to, to walk us through that experience of, uh, you know, basically just teach us your entire workshop in the next three minutes. . Yeah, . So, um, so in this way that I work with a body, I also use tuning forks. Tuning forks are a great instant induction.
They, uh, they kind of draw us into, Nonverbal awareness, preverbal awareness kind of at the level, uh, before cognition. And, uh, they’re a great metaphor for alignment. Also. They’re a great metaphor for ratios. If you ring two that are a fifth, There’s something that’s just mathematically and proportionally pleasing to us.
Uh, PTAs talked a lot about that. Um, you know, musically, it sounds pleasing. Uh, also I’m really inspired by Melissa Ross’s. Uh, metaphor of the symphony. She has this whole thing about how, uh, we are the conductors of our body. And so you ring that tuning fork and you give the subconscious this metaphor that it can, uh, choose to a align itself in a way that is.
Uh, healthy. Um, and so from the outside perspective, what’s, what’s that? Let me ask it this way. What’s that tell, what’s that feedback mechanism that you’re getting? Are you using that as just a measurement or using that as a result? Uh, okay, so, so I will put it in different places on people’s body. The, the kind of.
On the bottom of the feet especially is a good place. I will put it on their bottom of their feet and I’ll ask them, How does that feel? Or sometimes I will ask them to send the problem into the note. Um, but there’s something about, and. I’ve had the feedback from my clients I that I sent them home with tuning forks to work with, and they said that I didn’t really do it for them.
Like actually like having the tuning forks in the hypnosis session was the thing that really did it for them. So there’s something about that being opened up, being in that heightened sense of focus, and then using those tuning forks, uh, and people can feel the sensation run all the way up their body. I will use it.
A lot of times I will use the metaphor of the chakra system. Um, I, I know that’s a little bit woo, but it just gives me kind of a framework for focusing on areas of the body that are related. Oh, sorry. Once you bring out the tuning forks, you can bring out anything else to, Right. . Right, right. Well, the thing that is about tuning forks, I feel like some people might see them as a little bit woo, but there’s really no arguing with a note.
Like it’s just a note. How do you experience it? I brought out the tuning forks at Hypno Thoughts last year, and they were so popular. They were a great icebreaker. They were, uh, something to play with. Some people asked me for a pre-talk about them and I didn’t have one at the time. I was just like, I don’t wanna give you a pre-talk, I just want you to experience it.
Um, But yeah, so I, I’ll put them on different places. I’ll ask them first, Is it okay if I touch you here? Is it okay if I touch you here? And then, uh, and I’ll, sometimes I’ll just ask them, Hey, can you just scan your buddy from hand to toe? And can you tell me where you sense any sort of problem or blockage?
and then we’ll follow that around, and then I’ll use the tuning forks on that. And then it, it just, it helps things move. It’s, um, and it’s a way that you can move things without getting too heady about it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like that idea though, of the, the writing, the feeling, and they hear the sound.
Where do you feel that? And as soon as, again, we have something in motion, now there’s something to actually work with there. Right, Right. That’s exactly it. Uh, it’s just another thing to play with. Exactly, exactly. So let’s ask it this way that someone’s in the space with you and there’s a combination, uh, integrative approach of, you know, EFT and the tuning forks at times, and, uh, conversational change work and things that would have the appearance of formal change work.
To kind of look at how you began in hypnosis to where things are now. If you had to play the, if I knew then game , um, what are some of those things that, I’ll ask it this way that you used to believe, but now I, I won’t say that necessarily were wrong, but perhaps you have greater flexibility on. I was taught to give a pre-talk about all that hypnosis isn’t, and that doesn’t work for me.
It, it, it is really kind of the opposite of what we’re going for. I think it, it creates a lot of fears that might not have existed before you started talking about it. Right. Yeah. You didn’t have that fear. Now you do . And what I do is I try to just focus on where we’re going, what we wanna do with it, what’s fun about it, why I like it, why I’m passionate about it, why they should be passionate about it.
It’s not hard to get people passionate about hypnosis because you know, just the idea in. Fires their in imagination. And a lot of times I get people that call me on the phone that have already, I think I have to give them this long spiel and I don’t, cuz they’ve already sold themselves on it. Yes. So , that’s a huge, that’s a huge thing.
To elaborate briefly on that. Um, you know, as, as much as I’ve published a phone tree kind of thing in terms of the calling strategy, you know, Hey, I’m calling you because Scott said I should call you. And Scott’s like the most level headed guy that I know and he would’ve been the last one. I’ve expected to quit smoking with hypnosis and I gotta quit.
And, uh, even though he’s not one of my best friends, but I, if you can help him, you can definitely help me. . Okay, great. Here’s how we schedule . Right? And there’s someone coming later this week that, you know, that was the sales call. We were in and out in two minutes, and it wasn’t rushed for the sake of ef, you know, efficiency.
It was efficient because she had already done the sales process herself. Exactly. And the same is true the hypnosis, so that if. They’re coming in now, there’s a line to that that you know, Oh, I’ve done hypnosis before. I’m really excited about this. You’re clearly doing some things differently than what the standard would be.
Oh, well, you know what? I will say probably I am in your hypnotic business systems group, and I got a lot out of that, and a lot of what I got out of that. Um, just kind of putting more of myself out there, having a video on my website. People watch that. People, I, I also have, my website is highly search engine optimized.
It’s like always the first hit for whatever people are looking for in my area. And, um, and I go out of my way to just kind of start creating that relationship and that rapport, um, before people even call me. So, uh, and I’m, I’m doing that through my website. I’m also doing that through my referral network.
I spend a lot of time every week also just cultivating relationships with people who are seeing people in kind of the same, uh, interest, interest place. . Yeah. Is there anything specifically that you’re doing there to really cultivate those relationships other than, let’s call it the standard networking strategy?
Mm. Well, um, so I have, I, as you suggested, I’m doing a, a referral thing where if people give me a referral, then I give them a session That has really kind of taken off. I have like third and fourth generation referrals coming in right now. So Beautiful people who are. Friends of friends come in already just feeling super safe, super comfortable, super kind of confident in the process.
And then I haven’t started doing this yet, but I, on LinkedIn, I went through my area and I just kind of friended all the healthcare practitioners that I could find. I see I’m earing up to, uh, start just asking people out to lunch, maybe like one or two or three times a week. As much as they can handle of that.
People really like connecting one on one. Uh, every time I’ve done that, it’s just kind of like turned up in spades. It’s, it’s a really great thing to. There’s something really cool about the strategy you’ve talked about there, which I, where most people get this wrong is they try to make it into a program.
They try to make it into a plan, or even as the guy who’s out there talking systems to people, um, that’s where this goes badly. It, it’s where I’m already, there’s, I’m. Moving the office this month and you know, people know that I’m coming in because the contractors have been, been in there wrecking stuff up, , mm-hmm.
and making all sorts of noise and negotiating with the neighbors as to when they can put down the new floors and, you know, move the walls. And there’s already. A couple of referrals that have come in, and I’m not even in the space yet. Mm-hmm. . And it just came about from just saying, um, Oh, I need to book a session with you.
Hey, you’re a neighbor. Just come by sometime and you know, I’ll give you the scheduling link. We’ll just set something up so you can get the experience of what it is. Yeah. So it wasn’t me, you know, presenting a program to say, for every number of this many people, you refer to me, I’m gonna do this. Because that’s where, Yeah, it kind of interferes with they’re in a different world where they’re in some ways bound to not do that sort of.
Yeah, but mine was just, the con was just, I call it not even a strategy, it’s just being human, being decent. Exactly. Being human, being decent. Really the same as, you know, family. Like connecting with people. Yeah. The office that I moved out of, um, you know, I painted a wall to be, uh, the Chrome key Green Screen effect, which then after the water feature that moved me out of there, I never really got to use, uh, yet.
Here’s the owner of the big painting franchise in the area, and I’m like, Hey John, could I get your crew to come paint that? He goes, It’s one wall. I’m gonna send a guy today at five o’clock, go hit the atm, give him a hundred bucks. He’ll be thrilled. Thanks, . It’s like, Can I get a contract on that so I can write it off?
He goes, Just go get him cash. It’s one wall. That’s so funny. . Yeah, and it’s because of that relationship. He’s the one I’ve got doing a bunch of other projects, and it’s that way of just sort of building that network. Now the difference would be if it’s, if it’s. The one going, I’ve got this issue. How do I address that?
How do I come work with you that I’m gonna go great. The way we work together is, and now we’re into a system, right? Yet just sort of networking in the community. The, I flash back two years ago, there was a massage therapy instructor that I needed to have her on this podcast at some point cuz all this work, smart hypnosis stuff is Jody’s fault.
Um, that she actually said this, she goes, as an instructor, I can’t refer someone to another massage therapist that I haven’t been on the table. Right. And you know, I’ve tried to refer to this one local massage therapist who goes, Oh, I can’t give you a massage cuz I know you too. Well that’d be weird, . And she goes, Well, there’s the fastest way to get zero business, Right?
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So again, it’s the being human, giving the experience, sharing your conversation. And part of that conversation may be it, it’s not even bartering, right? It’s just, hey, swing by at some point. Yeah. Let me show you this amazing thing that I do. Yeah. Actually, um, I have gotten a. Stuff just out of being at the Regis, my office building, there’s lots of professionals around and just kind of hanging out in the office space.
People approach me and talk to me about what I do and I tell them and they get really excited about it. So, um, yeah. That’s awesome. So, Yeah. So where can people find out more about you online? Okay, so, uh, marion’s virgin.com is my website slash if you go to slash work smart, um, that’s going to be a place where you can get on my, uh, hip note list.
I have a, a list that I keep for hypnotists if you like. It’s a good way to stay in touch with. Excellent. And, uh, it was wonderful having you on here. We mentioned a few resources throughout here, like, uh, Stephanie Conks protocol and, um, Melissa Roths. The, the book is, uh, Healing Metaphors. Right? That’s where the symphony metaphor comes out of.
We’ll put a link back Yeah. Yeah. In the show notes too. That, that’s something I constantly actually tell people, Go get this book. And it’s a digital version of it nowadays too, which, for what it’s worth, it’s actually an orchestra that plays the symphony. Uh, they’re not actually the symphony. I had a opera singer student who just went off the rails about that.
So make that one adjustment . That’s so funny. It’s where’s so funny. Then again, here’s the opera singer I had as a client years ago who got offended cuz I said, When you hit the note and she goes, I do not hit notes, I correct the note. You correct the note. Like, All right, I’m gonna write that down and remember that for next time.
Right. Any, any final thoughts for those that are either brand new to hypnosis or already working at it that you’d, you’d share in terms of some, uh, inspirational words? Mm, just do it. That’s all. Just do it. You’re gonna learn so much. Every, every experience that you have is just going to inform the next one.
Jason Lynnette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for sharing your feedback online, leaving your reviews, and sharing this with everybody you possibly know and care for . Uh, check out the upcoming two conventions, the Hypno Thoughts, Live Convention, as well as h uh, the MidAmerica Hypnosis Conference, which happens again.
Side of the Chicago area will link to Marion’s website, those conventions, those training resources on the work smart hypnosis.com show notes. And once again, check out hypnotic business systems.com. You do not need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to growing your business as a hypnotic. Professional.
So get the roadmap that’s been tested for you with strategies you can put to use in marketing materials that are ready to model right away. Check that out. Hypnotic business systems.com. See you soon. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.