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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 290. Barry Neal on Parts Smoking and Value. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Welcome. To the program, and this is an outstanding conversation you’re about to listen to one that kind of follows a pattern like many of the others that I’ve known.
Barry Neal, for anybody who goes into various Facebook groups that are online for hypnosis and talking about working with clients, Barry’s a bit of a regular and a real worker in the industry in terms of a timeframe that he’ll talk about of seeing upwards of 40 or 50 clients a week, taking a little bit of a side step to start to share some of his strategies and teach and guide others as well.
And you’re gonna find a really thorough conversation here of somebody. Who very clearly has put in the work consistently creates great results with his clients and shares with this incredible community in terms of what actually is working right now. So a big part of the conversation is about where many of you may be out there in terms of gathering a lot of knowledge, picking up a lot of good training and information, and then comes the issue though, of actually putting that content to use.
Well, Barry shares some really great insights about that decision to kind of break out of that journey of being. Perpetual student and continue instead to be that professional student who is out there now helping others in doing the professional work of hypnosis. Meanwhile, from there, we’re gonna branch over to an outstanding chat about some of the strategies, and I’d say more so.
The conversational influence factors that are necessary in helping someone to stop smoking with hypnosis, Really helping to reinforce the fact that the hypnotic process is just one part of a bigger system. It’s about stacking the expectation, shifting some of those perspectives, and then reinforcing it as soon as that session end is then over and also inside of it, just a consistent call to.
To really put more value to the work that we do. I keep saying this, and this is no disrespect to the massage therapist out there, cuz I know there are several hyphenates in this audience, massage therapist, who also does hypnosis or likewise the other direction as well. But it’s the fact that we are offering a bit of a life changing service here.
So let’s not price it similar to what we would pay for a one off type service that may be more of an ongoing type thing. That consistently the strategy becomes as we max out, our calendars, increase the value that not only do we provide to the client, but also receiving back as well. So just some great strategies in terms of helping our clients, growing our successful businesses, and continuing to grow, getting better and better at the work that we do.
Be sure to check out the show notes. [email protected] to find out how to keep track of what Barry is up to. He pops up at times and does regular webinars as well. So make sure you get onto his email list or follow him on Facebook because he puts a lot of great information out there too. If you’re looking for more strategies to grow your business, check out hypnotic business systems dot.
This is the all access pass to my hypnosis business training library. Not just teaching you what and how to do it, but we don’t talk about this enough, giving you a number of strategies along the way. I connected on a call this morning with a student up in New York who had some very specific questions, and it was fun because we kind of got to branch into the conversation of, Let me now sell you further on the program that you’re inside of.
As we were talking about some opt-in offers for his websites, giving away an audio, which then turned into, Hey, if you go to the product section in the manual, you just have this entire audio program that I used to sell here. Change the. Slap your name on it, talking about search engine strategy. How do I find the keywords?
Well, I’ve actually published inside of the program the exact keywords that people were using. So this really becomes that all access pass to exactly what’s working now inside of a multiple six figure. Hypnosis business. Check that out [email protected] Though as a side note, this is being recorded on Monday, September 14th, and we are exactly one month away from the launch of something very new.
I’ll be brief about it because I want you to find it out in real time together, but if you simply go over to hypno Hacks. Dot com, hypno hacks.com. That’s where you can sign up to be on an advanced email list to find out about this entirely new universe that I am building out. So this is not necessarily going out to hypnotist in our profession.
It’s a whole new podcast specifically for business owners, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, about using hypnotic principles to scale up their success. If you wanna see what’s coming, head over to hypno hack. Dot com. Now, with that in mind, let’s shov directly in to this week’s content pack session. This is episode number 290.
Barry Neal on Parts Smoking and Value. Uh, it goes really a long way back. I started my interest in hypnosis when I was 13 years old. I’d watched a TV program that. Featured hypnosis section in, I think it was something like the Twilight Zone or something like that. really thought, Oh man, I got that. I’ve got to learn how to do that.
And of course it was one of these things, the equivalent now I was watching the movie Get Out and I went, That’s a good career, . Yeah, I just happened to speak to my granddad about it. Uh, I’d, you know, I’d watch this program on hypnosis. Really, really interested in it. And he said, Well, hang on a minute. I know something about hypnosis.
And I’m like, What? How? How do you know anything about hypnosis? And it turns out that my granddad was quite a colorful character in the twenties. He went over to the the States and toured around the states basically working in carnivals. And he were learned the basics of stage hypnosis. So he showed me some basic things like arm epilepsy and creating glove anesthesia and things like that, and a kind of basic type induction.
But that was kind of all I had at that time. And I used to go to school and stick people’s hands to their desks or get a girl’s hand and make her grab my wrist and not be able to let it go, which was kind of fun when you’re about 14 years old. But I kind of. It was very difficult to find anything more about hypnosis at that point because as far as I was aware, there was no courses and certainly there was no internet.
So my next sort of step up to that was I would go into health food shops and they often would have self-improvement, self hypnosis type cassettes. So I’d save up my pocket money and buy a cassette and transcribe it. So I started to learn inductions and if you like the pattern, Just from transcribing cassettes, and it was a real interest at that point.
But again, I couldn’t find any courses and there was very few books. None of the libraries had anything like that. And eventually, I remember reading some magazines, I can’t remember what the magazines were, but in the back of the magazines, they often used to have the classified ads, and there was an advert there for the Melvin Powers book club.
And all certain books on hypnosis that were for sale in America. So I, I ordered some and got these books through and I was absolutely fascinated, all different deductions and things like that. But it’s sort of that sort of, uh, faded a little bit as I discovered girls and things like that. You know, there’s other things in life and my dad worked at Ford Motor Company.
And it was, it was the sort of tradition that that’s where I was going to work. So I went and did that and for a while, and then got into sales and went off and did lots of sales trainings. And then they started talking about nlp. So this was in the early eighties I, or mid eighties I suppose, And sales NLP and I, I started to get more and more interested in hypnosis and NLP again, and then eventually, Did a few hypnosis courses that I could find, which were mainly sort of the hypno analysis type courses.
Yes. And then, Progressed and found out about, at the time, Ted James, the, uh, NLP trainer was coming over to London. So I shifted everything about, and sold everything. I had to go and do this training with him, which was a short four day hypnosis training. And at the end, at the training, he sat there and, and gave an intro into why you need to train in nlp.
And I sat there and he, and he’s, he’s got this, he’s got slides up showing photographs of Hawaii and like, here’s the training room and, uh, , I’m. Like, Wow, I need to go do this. So I went off and did my practitioner, and then my master practitioner and trainer’s training, and came back feeling really pumped up and excited.
You know, I’m now an NLP trainer. Yeah. Hey. And then I thought, well, You know, I’ve heard about this guy called Richard Bandler, but I don’t know much about him. I’ve read a couple of the books, you know, frogs into princes and transformations, but I guess I, if I’m an NLP train, I really should check out Richard.
And there was a video library company in in Wales, in England when the uk, it used to be like the blockbuster of NLP videos, , and I rented some of these NLP videos from them with Richard Band on them. And I sat there watching them and. What is he doing? I don’t know what this guy’s doing, and yet I’m a trainer of nlp.
Yeah, what the hell? . And it was suddenly a massive wake up call for me. That what I knew, although I’d gone through these trainings, wasn’t in anywhere near enough. So I went and redid all my trainings as well with Richard. I. I then went back out to the state several times and I, I did some training with people.
You probably know I did training with Gil Boy, Jerry Kind, Don Moin, Cal Banian, and for a while I was doing this sort of the age regression type stuff that comes from Gil Boy. But I found it really, really hard on clients, and it was, I, I found that it was very d. For the client, very difficult for me, particularly at the offices I had at the time.
I had shared offices with people and accountants in the, in the block and I’d have someone in their chair and they’re screaming and punching a pillow at the top of their lungs. And I’m thinking, Yeah, this is, there’s gotta be a better way than this there. Yes. I mean, I, people will be looking in through the, the window in my door going, Is everything okay in there?
Yeah. And, uh, so I kind of redid everything and started incorporating a lot more of the gentler techniques. And even from that time, I’m, I’m constantly going on training courses, so I’ve trained in, You wanna jump in for a second there that I, I, I, I kind of had a similar experience there where, you know, learning the pound, the pillow regression forgiveness model at one point, and what’s kind of interesting.
And it’s not to say the technique is neither good nor bad, because I’ve had that moment where suddenly the client’s in front of me and I’m thinking, I wish I still had the pillow in the room. . . Yeah. This, this is one Who needs that or credit to, let’s call it out. Credit to Cal Banian for this one that I had someone in the office one time that you’re launching into that, you know, tell yourself at that young age what you need to know, which.
Traces of that, go back to kind to Gil boy to Freud, and suddenly the guy launches into the full, talking to himself at five years old to unravel the issue and do it if he didn’t perfectly do every one of the steps of five path by himself, . I’m like, huh. So it’s where we can find that. I love this journey though, cuz you kind of did a little bit of everything and that’s really what builds that, that flexibility in the work.
So we’re now ready to handle whatever comes. Exactly, and, and I’ve always done more trainings. I’ve, I’ve never thought I know enough. So I’ve also trained in emdr like the, the, the genuine version of the EMDR full six day course. I’ve done i e mt, which is another eye movement technique, but it’s not the same.
A lot of part times when you hear people say, Oh, I’ve heard about i e emt, and someone says, Oh, that’s the same as emdr. Well it is and it isn’t. It’s a bit like saying past life regression is exactly the same as Ericsonian hypnotherapy because they both use hypnosis. It’s, yeah, they both use eye movements, but it’s a totally different way of working.
And in my experience, in my opinion, the I EMT is A, is a better. Set of tools to have than just the emdr. I think the problem with the EMDR is it, it became with the need for it to become evidence based, it, they took out a lot of the creativity in it and a lot of thinking for yourself as a therapist and, and paying attention to the client.
I mean, now you get EMDR therapists who, who sit there staring at a laptop with a set of headphones on while the client just looks at a light bar. And it, it’s like they don’t even know, have to be in the same room and to, it’s taken a lot out of it, as far as I’m concerned, but also trained in Havening, tft, eft, you know, it just goes on.
So I, I don’t see any end to this. And one of the great things I love about this profession is there is always something else to learn. . Yeah. So then from that journey of being ravenous for the education. Now during, during all of this, you mentioned you were working in sales or what was the, uh, business?
Well, that was initially in sales. Yeah. I was initially in sales, but I, I’d left that by then and now was in full-time practice and I was kind of lucky. I spoke to Al Krasner. I dunno if you remember Al Krasner. Also Bruce Klowski and they sent me their advertising packs that they used with all copies of their adverts.
And at the time, this was pre-internet. The, the main way of getting business was through local press adverts. I was down to my, I must have had about last 2000 pounds. So I, $2,000. I managed to rent a room. At the back of one of my friends’ real estate offices, and I chucked everything into the, the marketing of this.
And within weeks, I was booked up weeks in advance. Nice. And it, the, the phone just didn’t stop ringing and at one point I was seeing in excess of 40 clients a week, which I really don’t recommend. . . Yeah. I mean, my vo my Friday, I was looking at my diary. Geez. I hope you don’t turn up. I hope you don’t turn up
That that is a consistent trend here. And I, I, I’d share from, from the business and sales and influence perspective, I’ve learned to never say book more clients because there’s a big part of the community that. Has had that many clients that is now going, How do I get more premium clients power? The power of ambiguity.
Imagine the changes as you run the business. You want , which is not saying something specific there, of course. No, but it’s where some of the more effective people who I’ve interacted with over the years had maybe, let’s call it a bit of a tunnel of time where, I mean, before I had kids, I. 35 to 45 people a week.
And then again, I did go into that with the frame of, Hey, I’m young, I can burn out now. Or more specifically, Oh, I could take three months off when our daughter’s born and I did because Marathon, Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should though in the long term. Let me ask you, what would you say was the bigger learning lesson?
Doing that kind of volume as you jumped into it, it gives you the experience. You can go on all the courses that, uh, you can afford and have all that technical knowledge, but unless you’ve got clients to practice on, you are never gonna get good. And, and to me that was it. That was, that was my massive induction into.
Paying attention to clients. Yes. And to me that was the biggest learning. Suddenly the, the whole idea of, oh, you gotta have a scripted process or, you know, even just a technique. All that had to go out the window because people just did not respond to way they should. , they, you know, you’ve seen that amount of clients, Three percentage you’re supposed to, Yeah.
It’s like, this is step four. You meant to. Yeah, don’t, you know, you’re meant to do that. And it was just a, a baptism of fire. And I had the, the turning point for me was I had one particular client who had booked a CL session, and when I spoke to her on the phone, she said, I’d, I’d been to see this other hypnotist, uh, guy called Robert Ergo.
You probably don’t know him in the States, but he was, he was like the Paul McKenna before Paul McKenna was Paul McKenna. He was the TV hypnotist in the uk. And she said, I, I’d been to see, uh, Robert before Igo about two or three years ago for blushing, and it worked for about two years. But I’ve started blushing again.
Can you help me? And I went, Yeah, yeah, of course. Booked her in and I’m thinking, Hmm, I wonder what this guy Robert Farrago did. So I phoned him up and as LA would have it, he, he spoke to me. It was really, really helpful. And I said to him about this client, and then he, and I said about how busy I was, and he said, Well, how much are you charging per session?
and I said, Oh, well, at that time I was charging 60 pounds per session. So he said, God, he said, You’re not charging anywhere near enough. He said, Do you want to increase that massively? So I said, Well, what do you mean? Sort of like 70, 80? No, no, no, no, no. . He like least 250 pounds a session. And I went, What? No one’s gonna pay 250 pounds a session then only he said, Yes, they will just trust me and.
With a lot of hesitation, I made that decision. I changed my prices, charged 250 pounds a session, and at that point the majority of my clients tended to be smoking clients, perhaps weight loss as well, but mainly smoking. And I’m thinking, no one’s ever gonna pay this. And all of a sudden I started booking clients.
There was no hesitation, and yes, I saw less clients, but I, I ended up working just three days a week, charging 250 pounds per session, seeing about five clients a day. So I was seeing 15 clients a week, earning a heck of a lot more money than I was beforehand seeing the clients at 60 pounds a week. And getting time to enjoy life as well.
Yeah. And it was just a massive, massive wake up call for me. And then about 18 years ago with a friend of mine, I taught him my stop smoking methods and we basically had a really good. Method for stopping smoking. It was a one session stop smoking package. We, we gave a guarantee much in the same way as you’d do that if, if after the session they ever need another session, just give us a call.
You can come back in at no extra charge. And we decided to package that up as a business opportunity for other therapists and in for that, for that matter, anyone who wanted a business opportunity of, of learning hypnosis. So we created this four day hypnosis training. On smoking, what I say was just on smoking.
Two days were on the hypnosis and the smoking side. Two days were, was, was on the marketing side. Mm-hmm. , because the, the other thing we had to do again, it was to overcome the resistance by the therapist that they could get 250 pounds to help someone stop smoking. And I say, this is going back 18 years ago.
So obviously the prices have changed since then because you get, people say, Well that won’t work in my part of the country. It’s quite poor. Where I live and my comment would be, Well, how much does a pack of cigarettes cost where you live? And they’d say, Whatever it was, five pounds. I said, Well, guess what?
A pack of cigarettes cost five pounds in Mayfair in London. It, it doesn’t matter if a person can afford to smoke, they can afford to stop. And we trained. I think it was about 350 people, I think, throughout the uk and we charged a heck of a lot for the training as well. I’m kind of embarrassed to say how much we charged at that time, but we, we, we gave them a complete roadmap of the marketing.
We gave them all the adverts that they needed, although leaflets, the brochures, absolutely everything, and many of them went out and they earned a significant amount of money. And in fact, some of them were doing much, much better than we were. We had one particular girl who was up in Liverpool and. In, certainly in the months that we tracked her, she was earning in excess of 20,000 pounds a month.
Uh, and that was consistently just doing stop smoking clients. And everyone said, No, you can’t do that. And like, Well, she’s doing it and she’s doing it in an area of the country, which is supposed to be one of the poorer areas. And the reality is, People will pay if you, you can help someone stop smoking, they can easily justify that money because they’re, they’re spending a huge amount of money every month on that behavior.
So it was a very big lesson for, for, for us, that you could, you could charge more if you do a good service. And you guarantee your results and, and I think there’s several things inside of what you just talked about there that, you know, I think we were chatting before we jumped in that, you know, at times it’s a matter of where we are in the state of the business.
And also sometimes it is that intention to go, Well let me increase the rates to kind of maybe slow things down a little bit. And many people often find that that’s not the case, that it picks up just as much. Yeah, yeah. Because now it’s presenting the perceived value that it’s meant to have. I think I told the story briefly.
We had to replace the fence in our, uh, backyard and it turned into, Hey, since if we do ours, let’s see if the other neighbors want to do it. And like five of us did it all together. And, and there was a polite moment of me in the private Facebook chat going, Do we really need 12 estimates? Can we just book somebody
But the, the one who the neighbors were up in arms about, they charge for an estimate. And I’m like, That’s the one. That’s high. Higher that one. No, but it’s where as long as we’re providing that value and finding that place where, you know, you had kind of tapped into something that was working extremely well, you had tested it out and then saw the opportunity to go.
Let’s have others do this, and I’ll say this next statement, I don’t think I’ve ever actually used this next phrase in the podcast. It’s more something I hold back for the private groups, because without context, oh, it’s bad. But the respectful statement is people spend a lot of money on crap. They don’t need.
And it’s where it’s not that something is expensive, it’s that suddenly when the priorities get in the right alignment, they figure out exactly how to do something. So this is where, back when this was a thing, they don’t go to the movie theater, remember that they don’t go to the movie theater. They rent the thing or watch something that’s streaming the old line of the coffee at home versus the one that’s out.
Eat home rather than this. They, they find the way to make the numbers line up and work. And that even, you know, this is a budgeting strategy isn’t even for a company that is successful, that, oh, here’s this piece of software. Okay, well let me appropriately find a way to comically rationalize this by going, Okay, let me use this once or twice to actually earn back my investment on it, and then I could actually do it.
So I’m just curious to ask you, cause I’m sure the questions in the mind of the audience out there too. If you can kind of give a bit of a roadmap and the answer might be perhaps what you feel is often missing from a stop smoking process. What was kind of the roadmap of the process that you had put together?
I think one of the biggest things that is missing is that, first of all, people are so desperate to see clients that they’ll take on all comers. Yeah. And with smoking you’re gonna get a lot of tire kickers. Yeah. And one of the advantages of charging more is that you reduce the amount of tire kickers.
Before we did the, the trainings, I really thoroughly tested not only. The, the therapy part of it, but I, I tested the prices as well and then tracked back with how many people stopped, and there is no question in my mind that if you charge 50 pounds or $50 for a stop smoking session, or if you charge 250 or 300, the, the more expensive ones have a much higher rate of success.
So if your criteria is to help people be successful, then you have to charge more. I know there are some exceptions to that, and there’s some things if I was working with pain clients or something like that, they’ve got an absolute high motivation to change and change now. But when you’re talking about behaviors like stop smoking or weight loss, I think you have to price things accordingly so that.
For me was, was a key one. The second one is that even then, when they come in, there’s an assumption that just because they come in and just because they pay the money, that at that point they are motivated to stop. I disagree with that because if they were already 100% motivated to stop, then why would they come in for a.
So I think you still have to then leverage them in some way to get them to the point where it changes. Now must, One of the people I’ve learned a lot from over the years is Tony Robbins. I know he gets a lot of, um, stick from certain NLP trainers, but to be honest, he’s probably done more to promote the profession of NLP and hypnosis than anyone else I know.
If I can say it boldly, the ones who criticize, probably even haven’t watched a single thing that he does, and instead are judging from the outside. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, , Yeah. Watch and model. It’s beautiful. Yeah. I mean, I did his relationship coach pro program some years ago and when someone criticizes what he did, I often make them watch a video of him working with the two guys on the, the morning after nine.
And he, I dunno if you’ve seen this video, but No, I haven’t seen, Unbelievable. He works with a, uh, a New York Jewish guy who had lost friends in the Twin Towers and he works with a Muslim guy who was part of him, could understand why it had happened and was kind of, Celebrating and, and . Now, bearing in mind, this is the day after nine 11.
Now I dunno about you. You lead trainings and I lead after lead seminars. You wouldn’t wanna be teaching the segment of your training, which is supposed to be called Emotional Mastery on that morning. That’s, It’s like, oh crap around. Wouldn’t want to, if I’d go to more of the mindset of going, Well, let’s see what happens.
Yeah. And not only did he teach that he gets a New York Jewish guy and a Muslim guy out on stage, and he does this process with them that by the end of. They can both see each other’s points of view and they end up hugging and they become best friends. Not only that, that they leave that seminar and they join, they make a charity to create Yeah, to create connection between the Jewish and the Muslim people around the world.
And if you go on YouTube, the, the, the Muslim guy has, is got a video about five years later where they’re still doing that. Nice. I dunno about you. I mean, I’ve been doing this for years. I wouldn’t have liked to have done that in front of a group
So he, he’s, he’s got some chops, let me say. So yeah, I think Tony Robbins is, he’s worth paying attention to. One of the things he’s, he’s good at is leveraging clients for change. He gets them to change a must. And so when smokers come in, I really stress that point. I want to know, you know, why do they wanna stop smoking now?
What’s, if they don’t stop now? What’s this gonna cost them? What’s this gonna cost them in the way of their health? What’s it gonna cost them financially? What’s it gonna cost them in their relationships? How is it gonna affect their children? You know, do they really want to see their little. Go up and get married.
I want them really associating to the pain of continuing to poison themselves and so that they get to the point, You know what, I’ve got to stop and I’ve got to stop now. Yeah. And to me that’s a, I mean, I’m not gonna do, if someone comes in and they’ve got, I don’t know if, if they’ve got depression or something, I’m not gonna do that with them
But if they’re coming in for a, cuz let’s be honest. When you’re talking about something like stopping smoking, nobody really needs a hypnotist to do that. The vast majority of people stop smoking, do so by themselves. Well, I, I’ll give you my phrasing of that point too, which would be that for any change that we embrace, for any change that we can help with as a hypnotist, embrace the fact that the majority of people maybe overcome that issue without using.
Yeah, so it’s, it’s not to say we shouldn’t be there because we can, and we absolutely help people to do that. It’s instead to ask, Well let’s bring modeling under this. What had to happen for that person organically to make that change? And then what can we do with hypnosis to then model that same organic shift?
The way that apparently, I got my grandfather to quit smoking when I was four years old, cuz I said I didn’t want to go to his house because he smelled. Yeah. Yeah. And didn’t have to sit down, didn’t have to close his eyes, didn’t have to listen to music that sounded, sounded like Z Fear Lord of the Pan Flute.
And it’s a very specific reference, but was able to just completely throw it all out and tracking the story 30 years later. No cravings. No withdrawal. There was none of that. Yeah, yeah. You know, so, So we can help facilitate that organic shift. Let’s just model how people do it natural. Exactly. But I love that you’re asking those questions to take it.
If we wanna use the jargon here to take it out of that surface structure issue and instead get into that deep structure so we actually have an idea what we’re working. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I got a friend who, who stopped smoking by himself, and, and he was, he was one of these people, I’d always said to him, Yo, you know, when you wanna stop smoking, come and see me.
And he was like, Yeah, yeah, I’m never gonna stop smoking. And then one day I, I saw him and he wasn’t smoking. And I said, Well, what happened? And he said, Well, he, he said, Oh, I was, I was just sitting at home, I think it was on a Sunday or something like that, and I was having a cigarette in the lounge watching tv.
And my little girl came in the room and she’s, And I said, I said, What’s the matter, darling? What’s the matter? And she said, Oh, don’t want you to die. She’s like, Well, what do you mean I’m not gonna die? There’s nothing wrong. No, you’re gonna die, Dad, you’re gonna die. He’s like, What do you mean? And she pointed at the cigarette.
Yeah. I was like, Oh, wow. . Suddenly he’s, heart strings went and he stopped. Quit straight away. It’s just, you just gotta find that right button with people, with things like smoking. The reality is it’s, it’s just a decision. It really is my, my nan, she was about 75 years old. She’d smoked 30 to 40 cigarettes a day since she was about 13.
She walked into the doctors one day and called planting of chest pains, and the doctor said, You’ve got angina. You better stop smoking. She did. She just walked out of there and never smoked again. It’s a decision. So our job really, when we really is, is just to help the client make that decision to quit and to stay stopped.
Yeah. So then the staying stopped. Any strategies Yeah. To share on that? Yeah, I mean, I, I think again, the biggest mistake that people, the therapists make is that they finish. Session. They finished their script or whatever, and then they emerged the client and say, Yep, okay, there we go. Write the check or pay your money.
And off they go. At that point, I re, I mean, it’s one of the things I got from Jerry kind many, many years ago, and he, what he did was, he, he, the moment you, the client from hypnosis, you, you say to ’em, Right, look at me, Hold your gaze. And you say, Okay, look at me. So true or false, you are now non-smoker and you are a man, a non-smoker for the rest of your life.
Well true. What are you gonna say if someone offers you a cigarette? Well, I’m not gonna have one. What if they are really persistent and they say, Go and one won’t hurt? No, I’m not gonna have one and, and future pace all those situations with them straight away. Because as you know, when you emerge someone from hypnosis, they’re still highly suggestible at that point.
So I’m gonna future pace every single thing that could possibly come up that could trick them or manipulate them into having a cigarette. Yeah. Then I’ll also say to them, Look, I want to. That now that you stop smoking, you are just like a reformed alcoholic. The reformed alcoholic knows that once they’ve stopped drinking, they can never ever touch a single drop of alcohol ever again.
It doesn’t matter what they used to drink. You know, if they used to drink beer, they can’t drink wine now that they, once they’ve stopped, they have to stop everything. Well, the same fe’s true for you. You can never take a single puff, drag or draw from any. Thing again, a cigarette, a cigar at Christmas, nothing.
It doesn’t matter if you’ve gone six months or six years now that you’ve stopped, you have to stay stopped. So there’s no trying it, no testing it to see if it worked. You have to stay stopped. Do you understand? So really make it clear that they have to think about it. Just in the way that reformed alcoholic does.
You know, to be honest, I don’t necessarily think that alcoholics have to think that way, but it’s, it’s part of our public belief system that once an alcoholic stops that they have to stay stopped, and I, I really hammer it home. The same is true with smoking, that they can’t just have one. Because the reality is, you know, from your own experience, if you ask someone who comes in to stop smoking, what’s the longest you’ve ever stopped for?
You often hear ridiculous periods of time. You know, it could be 2, 2, 3, 5. I’ve heard 20 years, three times. And , you say to them, Well, why after 20 years of being a nonsmoker, would you ever smoke again? Did you make the decision? You know what, I really miss smelling a smoke. And I go, Well, no, I just thought I’d have one.
That one wouldn’t hurt. I really hammer it in. That one will hurt. I’ll tell you, there’s a, there’s a book that changed my opinion on this in that direction, which was, and it was a source that wasn’t really even about this. It’s the Bulletproof Diet book by Dave Asbury. So if you hear of people Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And as much as part of his book was based on the premise that coffee had mold toxins, that he needed to not get that. And he was selling coffee, which apparently there was a study that showed his had it too, cuz that’s just part of coffee. Yeah. That aside, there’s a chapter where he does basically call out the fact he goes, I’m gonna say this in a non-scientific way, is that we just figure out.
Over time what things are toxic to us. And again, not to use the word in a scientific way, but just that food doesn’t agree with me. And I, I’d say that’s kind of the very basic description as to my, My joke is I’m really working on my addiction of my three cigars a year, and I gotta cut back because this is getting outta hand, which clearly I can be in that category of someone who doesn’t really have a challenge with it.
But for someone else that becomes, Straw that breaks the camels back and they’re back into the routine once again. That for that person to be in front of us, and this may be a complex equivalence for that person to be in front of us, it means that this is a substance that just doesn’t work in their life, so therefore they’re hiring us to just eliminate it, eradicate all together.
You mentioned earlier some of the business strategy though. What are some of those methods that you found to be the best for you in terms of getting those people to come in and invite. Well, at the time when I was, I was doing this the, without question, it was local press advertising. Yeah. I used to do hard of half page editorials, and again, when I told people this, they’d go, Wow, you can’t do that.
It’s too expensive. Perfect. And they say, I’ve, I’ve spoken to the, the, my local paper and they’ve told me it’s like 1500 pounds for a half page on the rate card . And I go, Yeah, but you do realize the rate card is the biggest work of fiction ever, don’t you?
I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s right up there with a Dan Brown book, , and I’d say, No, no, no. Is it. Don’t ever, ever, ever, ever pay rate card. And I would, I’d say to them, and we do this on the, on the, the actual, the seminar. And we’d phone up one of these people’s local papers and we, we’d negotiate with them and quite often I would get this 1500 pounds, half page ad for less than a hundred pounds.
Hmm, And when you’re charging 250 pounds, I’d do that all day long, wouldn’t you? You know, ? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So my, I mean, my advertising bill was probably a, I don’t know, about a thousand pounds a month, but I was bringing in 15,000 pounds worth of income from that. Yeah. So I, I, I chair, this is a respectful show me years kind of moment.
Mine was that if I was doing something print or even something sponsored media, Okay, well I’ve got. Credit card in hand right now and I’m willing to pay today and I’d like to pay this amount. Can we do that? Yeah. And this may just be the classic, you know, agreement set of just using the word and rather than, but yeah, I understand that.
But I’d like to pay in full right now for the next. Six weeks. What, what would, what were some of your strategies for that? Well, I, at the time it was the advertising rep used to come around to my office once a week and they, they’d tell me all the details, how much it was and whatever. And I’d say, Look, there’s no way I’m paying that.
Here’s what I wanna do. I’m gonna write you a check for a hundred pounds. And I knew that the deadline for the. Advertising closed about three 3:00 PM on a Wednesday afternoon, and I, I knew that they would have late space. I said, If you could get late space on an early right hand page, cash the check.
Every week they cash the check. Yeah. Every week, you know, . Yet we had to go through this whole pretense every week as well. . Yeah. Similar to that is if you open up and and print people who my whole pitch around, it’s never the platform, it’s always the strategy, which, just to unpack something else, you were very clearly going in with what’s called an advertorial, which is the advertisement, which is very clearly.
Promoting something yet. It was promoting one specific thing, not the anything and everything. Right. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just stopped smoking. It was typically, it had a, a bold headline. It was either I walked out a non-smoker or something like that, and then there was the testimonial type thing.
They went to see Barry Neil at blah blah clinic. It was just a story of this particular person who’d tried and failed so many times to stop smoking, but finally found a solution. Other headlines would be, I can make you stop smoking in one. They were all bold headlines. It was always about the headline and then getting to read the next paragraph, and then once they read that paragraph, getting to read the next paragraph, it was using long copy to sell the actual process, which is what we did with the the training as well.
When I actually trained these other hy therapists, this again before websites were really big, we did it all through direct mail, and it was an 18 page sales letter, long copy about. Training them to become a stop smoking specialist in their area. Mm-hmm. . So I think you know it, it’s changed now because of the internet.
You’ve got websites and you’ve got videos, which is something that we didn’t have when we were doing the trainings back then, but we used to do it with long copy cuz you’ve got to build that relationship with people. And to me that was really important. And to me, the local press adverts were, were the real bread and butter of my advertising.
Sure. We did referrals, we did leaflets. I, you know, we’d go out to sports clubs, gymnasiums, speak to all the people in there. We’d have leaflets, dispensers in all the local areas. But the, the real source of it was the, the local papers, which are absolutely an option because as many people are out there saying, Oh, that doesn’t work anymore.
Uh, Why? Here’s my other sort of negotiation strategy with using Print, is to go through and be on the call and have one of their magazines in front of you and count the number of spots that go. You can also advertise in this magazine. Yeah, I know it’s, you say it’s worth that, but I’m looking here on page seven, on page 12, on page 15, and there’s all these spots promoting people to advertise in your magazine and you’re filling those spots with your own ads.
So if it was really worth that, these spots would be filled. So I’d like to make this payment. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean they, they’re all on commission and they need to sell that space and knowing when their deadline was was really, really useful. I think the other thing as well, it was, that did make a difference.
I mean, you’ll get advertising reps trying to sell you that, Oh, you have to do it weekly, so you must commit for. Three months, six months or whatever. No, we never did that, never did that. And we also made sure that we had an early right hand page. It made a huge difference. They’ll tell you, the advertising reps will tell you, Oh no, no, this doesn’t make any difference if you are the end of the paper on a left hand page.
Oh, it really does. Really does. So we, there was those sorts of things that we, we made sure that we did and Nice. The phone used to ring off. And because I had this telephone answering company, they were used to taking all Michaels and, and they knew about hypnosis. They could do a brief explan cause I’d spent some time with them educating on some of the questions they’re going to get.
We then, for everyone who trained with us, they u got to use that particular secretarial service so that they didn’t have to go through that learning curve. So it, it, it was, it was really, really useful. Nice, Nice. Well, I know one of the other things that wanted to have you on to talk about was that you’ve got some interesting work on parts therapy.
Can you, can you share for those that are new to that specific category with the basic concept of Yeah. To me, parts therapy is really, really useful technique. If you think about it. Every single client or virtually every single client that you, that comes into your office, Has to have some form of conflict about that behavior.
Otherwise, they wouldn’t be doing it or they wouldn’t care about stopping it. So if someone was 100% wanted to be a smoker, or 100% wanted to have a particular fear, they, they would not come in for a session if they were 100% congruent about stopping that behavior. They wouldn’t come in for a session because they would’ve already stopped.
So the majority of clients that you see are going to have some form of parts conflict going on, and you really need to have a set of tools that help you work with those parts conflicts. Now, there are a number of variations of parts therapy, some. I don’t like. There are some where you have the person hypnotized and then you cool out this part and then you name it.
The part that’s, to me, that’s right up there with creating a multiple personality that’s installing something . I think that’s, that’s if real dangerous road to start going down because you are also then giving that person something to blame. Your if, if they don’t, if they’re not successful, they’ll just say, Oh, that’s my destructive part that’s just coming into play here.
Or that’s my, uh, angry part. And so I think that when you do parts therapy, not only do you have to do, find out what the highest intention is behind the behavior. But you also have to then integrate that part, which lemme pause you there. Cause I think that that’s a really cool insight and I never really cared for that specific style.
I, I would use the rest of their parts process it. It’s where sometimes we are asking leading questions in an appropriate way in various hypnotic and NLP models. Like, you know, let’s take submodality elicitation, which is where if you were to simply ask somebody what color is that? You know, they might respond.
There isn’t a color, but if you ask the question instead, as you start to become aware of the perceptions in your mind as you’re feeling that sensation, what colors are you noticing? That’s now a leading question, and you’re more likely to get an answer, which by asking it that way, you’re either driving the person to either discover or create your representation, which as soon as we have something, then we can use.
That submodality process to then change it. And I think, yeah, I agree with you that in terms of labeling it and naming it now, it just always felt secondary to me. Not to say that it’s not an effective technique for some of the people some of the time. Just, yeah. I side with you on that. It, it, it just becomes a problem.
And to me, parts are in and of themselves incongruent just by their very nature because the, you get a part that, let’s say for example, you got a part that is causing a person to be angry and to get into fights and, and all sorts of trouble. But then you, if you work with that person and you chunk up to find the highest intention, you’ll find that that.
Wants protection, wants them to be feel safe and secure and that sort of thing. But its behavior is to fight, which shows that the part in and of itself is incongruent. It wants you to be safe, and yet it’s constantly putting you in danger. So when you’ve got that, if you keep that part there and you just have it do another behavior, it’s, there’s still an incongruence.
And I think that it’s for long term success. I think you need to integrate those parts rather than just keep having them there. Mm-hmm. , I remember speaking to Richard Bler many, many years ago and in, in his early days he wrote the book Reframing with John Griner and they talked then about creating parts.
Well, I don dunno if you know, but Richard got himself into all sorts of trouble creating too many parts in himself. . He had a part that would re reframe all the other parts. And he would often be sit found, sitting, staring at a wall for a long, very long time because he would just, his, his mind would just be reframing all these other parts and he came to the conclusion note less parts the better.
And so I think whenever you come across things like that, it’s a really good lesson to integrate the parts, because really, if you even think about it, when we as hypnotists start talking about you have a conscious mind and you have an unconscious mind, we are really just creating a part at that point as well.
You know, if you think about it, many clients won’t have ever thought about, Oh, I’ve got an unconscious mind or a subconscious. We are actually creating a division then. So I think you have to be really careful with how you phrase things because you can end up creating the very thing you are trying to solve.
So what I do when I teach parts therapy, Is to teach the, the therapist to identify the part that is causing the behavior. Find out what the highest intention is because the, the premise behind parts therapy is that behind every behavior is a positive intention. Now is that true in all cases. Well, maybe not, but it’s a good rule of thumb and it gives you something to, to work with.
So we, we identify what the, the highest intention is, and then get the part to then select all these o other ways of doing that, and then find the, which part is there in most conflict with, and then find out what the intention is for that as well, and then integrate those. Into the whole so that instead of having that separation, it’s a bit like same within a child work.
You get people who do inner child work and they keep that in a child in the heart and whatever. To me, you need to integrate that. Mm-hmm. , you need to have that in inner child grow up and get the learnings that the adult has learned all the way through to create integration. Otherwise, you’re just getting a fragmented personality all the way.
Well, I think that’s a, that’s an important point with so many other models of work that let’s say we’ve done some sort of regression and then we’ve done that cleaning up work. You know, my catchphrase on this is, at the end of the day, you still have to satisfy the conscious mind and go, and now that you resolve this issue, what does that mean in terms of your ability to not eat that junk food?
Now that you solve this, how can you respond differently on that airplane? We have to bring it up into the press tense. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you’ve gotta do that. And so a big part of what I do with the, with the parts therapy, not only identify what the part is, what its positive intention is, but then at the end of it, integrate it so that the person is more whole than they were when they came in.
Nice. Cause I think if you leave apart there, you potentially asking for trouble in the. So it’s much better to, for a person to be fully integrated than not, which what’s great, what’s great about that is that that’s something we can use in so many, again, other models of work. Even if it is someone who does prefer that, let’s give it a name type strategy.
Recognize that we still have to end the story. We have to complete the session. We have to integrate the change end. Yep. Yeah, so I, I mean, I think you have not have to integrate the, the, the change in the behavior, but you have to integrate the part as well. The, the model I was taught many, many years ago is that when these parts are created, it’s, they’re often created through trauma.
If you don’t integrate that part, then you still got that part there, which can cause an issue later on if life throws a curve ball. But if you integrate that, bring the up for present day learnings, then I think you’ve got a much more resilient. At the end of it. Beautiful. This has been great, Barry, especially, I think we’ve been, as I tend to say it, best friends on Facebook for quite some time and good to, Good to connect and record our first real conversation together,
Yeah. I mean, I was thinking back and I remember the good old days on hypno thoughts. Oh yeah. Which was. Just one of my favorite places to, to go. It’s a shame that obviously Facebook, really, the Facebook groups kind of took over a lot of that and it died off a little bit, but at one point, sort 10, 12 years ago, man, that was a, that was a great place to hang out.
Yeah. Working people find more from you. How can they connect with you? My website is hypnosis essex.com. Obviously I’ve got Facebook pages and things like that. I’ve got a YouTube channel, which there’s, there’s about 40. Instructional VI videos on there, which is a Barry Neil Hypnosis. So I’ve, I have got a new website coming up, which is primarily for the training side, but that’s not just up yet.
But that will Barry be just simply barry neal.com. Outstanding. This has been great having you on. Any final thoughts for the listeners out there? Yeah, I think final thoughts for the listeners really is to, to really. Faith and confidence in your ability to help people and reflect that in what you charge?
I think it’s so, uh, when, when people first come out of hypnosis training, they quite often think, Well, you know, I just need to lean, learn a little bit more before I start charging money. Or they think they need to go off another hypnosis training to find a magic. Bullet, you don’t. You need to start taking action and start seeing clients and charging money, because the more you charge, the more successful you will be.
If you don’t charge any money, then what will happen is you’ll get a few people who will try it to see if it works. They’ve got a few tire kickers and chances are it won’t work. That will knock your confidence so, As you mean to carry on, start charging good amount of money and instead of going off on the next hypnosis course, study marketing, one of the things that’s made Jason stand out is he studied marketing.
So if you really want to be in this profession long time, once you’ve got your basics down, go and study marketing. Be an expert because that’s really the business that you are in. Jason Lynnette here once again, and as always, thank you so much. Sharing this program online, subscribing, leaving your reviews, all that good social stuff.
And once again, head over to the show [email protected] to interact with Barry to join the public work Smart Hypnosis community and find out even further. You can check out hypnotic business systems.com. That’s the all access past to my hypnotic business training library and that super cool thing that I hinted in earlier.
Check out hypno hacks.com. A whole new podcast is launching October 14th. We’ll see you on the inside. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.