Session #308: James Seetoo on Influential Rapport

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 308. James Seetoo on Influential Rapport. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. So in case anybody out there is curious if you ever wanna really grab my attention, Take a concept that a lot of people tend to overcomplicate, break it down into a replicatable system, and I’ll tell you, I just fall in love with whatever you’re doing.

As I put systems behind almost all that I do, whether it’s a podcast episode, whether it’s the communication in terms of how a client comes into my business, or even the mechanisms of how people end up in sight of programs like hypnotic business systems, my entire hypnosis business training in terms of getting more clients as well as hypnotic workers.

The systems of how I work with my clients, and I mentioned the idea of I just fall in love with that concept, which was an easy transition with this week’s guest on the program. As I got to know James C2 back in November of 2019, where we got to meet for the first time hosting the I C B C H Train the Trainer event, and then continuing that conversation even further along inside of that journey and getting to know somebody who’s kind of been.

Sort of more on the inside of the industry, assisting inside of a lot of really great training events while at the same time as you’re about to hear having some phenomenal content inside of it. So James is somebody who yes, sees clients. Yes. Also works in corporate consulting and also is just brilliant in all things hypnotic language patterns and ethical influence.

As you’re gonna hear, as I invited James on, as I saw that he put out a new book called Influential Rapport, which I got a chance to read through. And again, the systemization of this and especially some of the reframes about how we look at creating dynamic relationships and even taking some of the knowledge.

Out of nlp, we already have knowledge of, in terms of rapport, the making and breaking of it, and starting to recognize that really here are the checkpoints, here are those litmus tests, to really confirm whether or not we have it and even better. What that can now create even better. Stick around to the end of this conversation because we talk everything in terms of religious rituals to influential rapport in the corporate world.

But then towards the end of this, I kind of throw a bit of a curve ball to James to ask a question about how do we apply these influential rapport filters instead into a personal change strategy. And this is some good stuff. You’re gonna wanna listen around for that. So head over to the show [email protected].

This is episode number 308. So simply head over to work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 0 8. That’ll give you the show notes for this episode to link over to the details for book, which again, I highly recommend while you’re there too. Speaking of systems, check out hypnotic business systems. Dot com that especially in our modern era where so much of the work of the professional hypnotist has pivoted online, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

The interesting thing about the online world is that it either works or it doesn’t work. Which is a very important thing to be acknowledging here. I could go to a networking event back in the day in the before times and be in front of a group of people and maybe get one client and at least kind of broke even for my time, especially nowadays going into the online space to have systems ready to go that are actually going to work for you and have been tested to proven to work in both a local business and a global business as well.

That’s what you’re going to. Plus get some license rights to reproduce some of my content inside of hypnotic business systems.com. Now, with that, let’s jump directly into this phenomenal conversation. Here we go. This is episode number 308 James C2 on Influential. Rapport. My first introduction into hypnosis was actually I was in junior high school.

I got very interested in self hypnosis to try to, you know, learn things a lot better. And so, you know, I still have my original books among them once from Leslie m leron, who people may, uh, realize you remember from back in the seventies. And, you know, I. Go and buy secondhand books on self hypnosis and hypnosis.

You know, where they would have the hypno discs in the back. Yeah. , you know, you would get, you could buy pendulums, you know, so you could put people under, you know, still have great pendulums, but use ’em for different purposes now. And so basically that was the beginning. I got interested actually in high school in ritual magic.

Yeah. Which is very interesting. And okay, we gotta pause there. Explain that. What is. Well, ritual magic is the western magical tradition, primarily with the golden dawn and things like that. People may know it from like Allister Crowley and Okay. Yeah. Those types of things. And as I, I went through that and, and really studied.

I saw there were a lot of, there were a lot of intersections with hypnosis. Mm-hmm. , the whole thing was about creating an experience, you know, the immersion of the senses, which is the same thing that happens in religious ceremonies as. And not to say that, you know, anybody’s religion is, is right or wrong, but what happens, the effect in any type of religious ceremony is kind of this immersion and which is what happens in hypnosis.

Yeah. And, and so as I went along, I eventually, uh, got into a business in, you know, with former Yugoslavia with a, a friend of mine who was from there, whose family was very prominent back then and, It seemed a good idea to start learning more about influence and persuasion, which led me to NLP neurolinguistic programming for those who are not familiar with the term and using it for influence and persuasion.

So I began on the influence and persuasion side. Yeah. I found that it actually works even if you don’t speak the person’s language, which was actually a tremendous experience for me in learning how to use it in different situations, uh, non-verbally. Yeah, let’s talk about that in terms of, you know, where so much of it is, again, based upon the language, so much of it is based upon the application, and we’ll go back to the religion and even magic aspects of that here in a moment.

But to look at the nonverbals. Yes. What are some of those? Is there a story that kind of stands out where that was demonstrated? Well, one of the things that happens is, is really about sensory acuity and knowing when you’re having an effect on somebody. So it’s understanding how to look for those signs when you have rapport, when how you can deepen rapport when you’re breaking rapport.

Yeah. And so even when you’re not speaking the same language, and most people have had this experience, you know, just in general when you know, They’re with somebody that theoretically they would have a lot in common with, They should get along, they should have a, a really good interaction with. And somehow it just doesn’t click.

There’s no, you know, and I use the air quotes chemistry there. Mm-hmm. , and a lot of that has to do with what they’re putting out as far as rapport. Where boundaries are, are they, you know, are they really raised high or are they not? Learning how to do that and really kind of getting a kinesthetic feeling for what’s going on when you’re not speaking the same language, really lowering your boundaries.

Being more open to the other person all of a sudden creates this tremendous rapport with them. Yeah, I, I flash to a very specific, yet very interesting experience, which we are in Puerto Rico and we see this restaurant, we’re like driving from one area to another and it’s definitely more of a locals area to say it simply.

And here’s this chicken restaurant that has a line all the way down the block and the thought. We have to go there. And so we get in line, we wait, we wait, we wait. And clearly now there’s an exception to this story, which is the fact that, you know, when we got up there, there was a language barrier and we’re now ordering lunch based on mimicking.

So moving the wings and pointing to the chest area to say, I want this two legs in a breast. And at the end, and it’s like this comedy of errors moment. And at the end of it, she walks over with the food and says, There’s your lunch. I hope you enjoy it. , exactly to which she goes. I always have fun with Americans.

technically it’s a US property. No, but the, every bit of that rapport was there in advance of that experience, minus again, the being poked fun of in a playful way. , right up until that point, we, we had that connection. We had that established sensation there. A and to get into that, so I know you’ve traveled quite a bit around the world.

Is is there a specific story that stands out of kind of putting the stuff to use on your own? Kind of putting the stuff to use on, on my own? Well, it, I mean, from there, you know, not just locally, but I, I do, I do work right now I’m doing work in Brazil. I’m doing work in Mexico. I’m doing work in, you know, corporate work in, uh, Egypt.

Well, it’s Saudi Arabia. Most of the people are in Egypt, you know, and in Europe. And I’ve done in in China, without speaking any of those languages, except for a couple of words, you know, which actually is another way to create tremendous rapport. So one of the things I, just to give you an example, I, one time I was in Barcelona for the Mobile World Congress, which is the largest mobile trade show in the world, and it’s usually in Barcelona, primarily because people want to go to Barcelona in February.

You know, it’s much nicer than going to Berlin in February. Yeah, and, and so, you know, I was there and most people speak Spanish there, but it’s actually in a region called Catalonia, and their native language in that area is Catalan, which is. Kind of, it’s an amalgam of, you know, Portuguese, Spanish, Latin, French, you know, has a lot of shared words between them.

It is not Spanish. Mm-hmm. . And so knowing a few words in Catalan is, it’s a tremendous thing. If you speak some Spanish, I mean, they can, they communicate with you. I mean, they’re friendly, but if you say a word in Catal, They just open up like crazy. They’re smiling, you know, they, and they, it’s, it’s like you’re part of the family.

Yeah. I had that when I, when I was in Serbia for a long time, for about six months at a time when I originally started doing this type of thing, I noticed if I learned a couple of words, if I was. Open. They actually opened up quite a lot and that is a huge thing. You know, people call it the ugly American traveler.

It’s because Americans expect, generally expect things to be like in the US because obviously the cultural influence is so high, but it’s really about being open to the local culture and, and that translates in rapport to being open to the people who are around. What I love. Yeah. What I love about this is that, again, this is where some of the rapport work was kind of bastardized in some respect in the eighties and nineties, in the mindset that if I move like you, if I sit, like you said, if I use your words, you’re gonna buy from me.

And everything we’ve talked about so far is under the theme of, let me step into your model of the world. Let me start to understand you a little bit better. Let’s get into a better. Synchronistic relationship. This way we can now move the communication forward rather than where it often starts for some people of going, How can I use this to get stuff from people instead, let’s build something that’s symbiotic.

Yes, exactly. And that’s the whole point of, you know, in the persuasion models that I use, you know, it’s key to understand what the person wants and how they want it. And if you can’t deliver that, just be honest. And say, I’m not the person to do that. Yeah, I can, Let me try to help you find that person.

It’s kind of like if you’ve ever had a great experience, you know, buying something in the sales per, you told the salesperson, I want this, and the salesperson says, I’m really sorry we don’t have that. I can show you something else. Or, you know, that’s similar. Or I can help you find where you can get that.

And that’s a tremendous experience for people. That just doesn’t happen because they’re incentivized to try to sell you something, right? And the whole point is to create that relationship. Because what happens is that person will get a tremendous amount of referrals. Out of it because it’s just the person who was the buyer is being treated with respect and understanding and it’s, you know, the same thing throughout any type of interaction is having that type of respect.

The boundaries start lowering and then you know, you start creating a real relationship. I think everything you’ve just said is something that a lot of people in the hypnotic industry should really start to understand, which, yes, we all start somewhere. Yes, we all have to begin at this journey of learning at some specific point.

Yet it’s where we start to see sometimes in the different forms that are online, Hey, someone’s coming to me Monday for this issue. I’ve never worked on What would you do? And I’d share, I’ve seen a greater success this year by also referring out more than ever before. Story I’ve told on. Several times already was that of, Oh, well your 12 year old will be more comfortable with this than you will yet, right now we’re all doing the work online.

So if that’s the case, why don’t you work with my friend Kelly T. Woods out in Washington State, You know, just do it in the afternoon. So it’s morning for her, yay time zones. But that ability that this person who I referred then eventually goes, Hey, could I work with you for this issue? I, I can think of being on the side of, let’s talk about one of the best businesses in the world, B and h Photo.

In New York City, . Absolutely. And you know where I’ve called up and asked questions and they’re like, Oh, we have this for that. We have that for that, but we currently don’t have this in stock. Tri Arama for that, but you want us to go and push the order for these items? I’m like, Yes, . Yeah. Just that again, giving mindset is what really pays the greatest dividend over time.

It’s where even B and I, they would teach givers gain. Yeah. And, and also it’s giving value back to the person and, and that’s something that really you do in all your products. Uh, thank you. Well, let’s talk for a moment on something you mentioned a moment ago, which kind of was that origin of the almost magical, if not religious aspect of this, which is to say, let’s use other terms and tell me if you’d agree on the themes of that, of creating an experience, something with a ritual to it.

I’d even heard Jerry kind at some point talk about how it was about creating the experience as much as the actual session. Can you elaborate on that from your. Well, you know, especially from, if you’re looking at it at hypnosis, a lot of people call it, you know, the narrowing of attention and the deepening of, you know, of that experience.

And it’s the same thing that happens, you know, when you’re at like a great concert or same thing, you’re happening at a really exciting sporting event. There’s this kind of immersion that goes on and the whole thing about. Is that it actually focuses the attention that way in a very specific way, especially if you’re among other people.

So it becomes like essentially like, and I’m not saying it is mm-hmm. , because again, for PE, people are gonna have their own individual experiences, the mechanism. And I’m only referring to the mechanism. Yes. Is very much a kind of a group experience that happens. Uh, people find it in things like burning men.

Say for example, Well, let me hop in for a moment just to call something out, and here’s a different filter that for some who, there, there are some who immediately get a. Offended. If the conversation goes this direction, it’s to take a step back and ask what are the hypnotic elements that may be present to which?

There was a demo someone did at a conference years ago, which I can see where this was offensive, but they taught somebody EFT to resolve a fear of heights. Like to the point we all went to the rooftop balcony and tested it, which was cool. The problem was they taught EFT wrong. And he, and he only did that.

Not to say there’s nothing to this technique, cuz his defense was, he goes, now that we’ve highlighted the hypnotic components as to what’s going on, now we can lean into them with intention when you’re appropriately doing eft. And this is my frame now to take techniques that are already effective. Make them even more effective by highlighting the right aspects.

So the closing of eyes, the reading of something together, the standing up, the sitting down. There are communication elements inside of this, which again, from our outside perspective, we can just acknowledge without judgment, without labeling. Well, exactly. I would go a little further back. I mean that’s much more of a, you know, kind of a Protestant type of thing when you look at the, more of the high ceremony Yeah.

That you get in the Orthodox church or you know, which is closer to the really old original church and the Catholic. Pre, I would say pre Vatican to, you know, when you have kind of that mystery element that you find actually in the ancient religions, the Ellucian mysteries and all those types of things where you have basically a mystery.

So, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a secret that the followers wanna know. So they go in there in order to learn the secrets, and they’re kind of given out in. Through the rituals, through the stories, but as part of the rituals, you’re getting the whole thing about, you’re getting, it’s the sons voices, right?

When you have the chanting and you’ll find that across, you know, not just the Christian religions, the you have that happened with the cans in the Jewish. You have that with, they have a similar role in the Orthodox Church where they, they chant the liturgy. People may be familiar with the Gregorian chant from the medieval Catholic church.

And so you have that. That’s the, uh, you know, For, you know, the, in the NLP jumps, the auditory component. They’re in a situation if you’ve ever gone into a cathedral where it’s all inspiring, so it puts you in a different place. You have the whole point of the incense, which you have that, you know, that sense of smell.

You’re in a different place. And then the whole point is to focus on where that priest is. In the front and everybody is facing that person, so they’re all focusing on that person. Who’s doing all these things. So if you think about it, right? So what are we doing when we put somebody into a trance? You know, closing their eyes and giving them that experience, playing with their senses a little bit, right?

So that you have the physical, you have the auditory. You’ve kind of cut down at the beginning on what the visual is, and then you’re focusing it, especially if you’re doing things like the Elman induction, right? You’re focusing on where the eyes are going. All of those things are levers that are very, very similar and they work.

So these things have passed through, you know, millennia for us. And you know, there are things that are found. In the ancient world, you know, ancient Greece and Rome, probably Egypt as well. And you know, the Victorians, when they were coming up with ritual magic and things like the Golden Dawn, they were adopting a lot of those things from ancient Egyptian, Greek, Roman.

Archetypes. So you ready for the curve ball? Absolutely. Okay. So that was the entry point. And for those that don’t know you, you do a lot of work in the corporate world also in some form. Correct me on this, if I’m using the term right. Basically a head hunter at times two. Yes. Executive search consulting, you know, executive coaching.

Okay. As well as from a lot, everything that was your origin to now in that corporate world. How are you carrying that part of it in terms of, again, let’s use the word ritual. Let’s use the ideas of focus. What are the correlations as to how that’s now playing out? Or was that just the foot in the. Well, here’s the interesting thing.

It’s, uh, again, when you’re talking to people on the phone, you’re creating an experience. Yeah. So it’s all about creating an understanding a of what they want. You, you know, there’s no point. And, and I’m very proud of this. I will not put somebody into a role that. Is not right for them. Yeah. You know, personally, even though they have the right skill sets, even though it would take something off of my plate, I won’t be responsible for somebody moving, you know, across country, moving to another, another country where it could affect their family adversely.

I just won’t do that. I’ve told people that, yeah, this is not really the right role for you, for your family. I leave it up to them, I say, but I advise them very strongly. You know, reconsider this because you, you can get another job, you can get another house, you can get another car. Um, you can’t get another family.

Really. Yeah. You know, and, and so people have a responsibility to the people in their lives. And I’m not gonna facilitate from my own convenience, you know, them having a really having a bad effect, which right there, I mean, that kind of hits the core of the theme I brought up earlier of taking on the client that you.

Don’t know you can help. And similar to that too, the aspect of the ethical part of any bit of sale that we’re only ever doing that if we know that our product or service or whatever that thing is, can actually benefit that person. Mm-hmm. . So then looking at, you’ve put out the new book, Influential Rapport, what, what are some of those missing elements from those dialogues that can put us in that situation where now?

We’re not creating that remorse. We’re actually creating that stronger connection. And we had an interesting chat before we hopped on here about a sort of a different frame on even certifications as the practitioner that yes, it’s nice to have that document for having paid for the class and appropriately gone through it and passed the course.

Yet also, it kind of serves as that little bit of a stepping stone in terms of our confidence to say, Yeah, there’s the proof of what I’ve actually accomplished. There’s the proof of what I’ve created, but let’s, let’s kind of bring that back to this conversation around rapport in terms of how do we start to get that in motion and maybe some different frames that we should have going into that beyond the standard mirror matching all of that.

Right. So one of the things about the standard mirror matching, it does work in, in some cases . I mean, let’s, let’s be honest. It does work in some ca It does. I mean, no, I, I love that because it, it’s something that people fall into a pattern. Let’s, let’s put this, this is Richard non guards dialogue around progressive muscle relaxation.

That yes, it’s not gonna be the thing. Packs a room at a hypnosis conference cuz it’s the sexy new technique that everyone’s going to want. It’s kind of the bread and butter that everyone already knows and often gets dismissed because it’s not the new sexy thing yet as he puts it. Here’s all the clinical data to back it up and here’s what it actually accomplishes.

So the things that we have, such as the mirroring and matching, those are the classics because those are the classics and it doesn’t mean they don’t work anymore. They absolutely do yet. What’s that? What’s that filter on top of? Well here, here’s another thing about Maryanne matching. It’s that being aware of it actually is an indication that you have report.

Thank you, . You know, so, so it happens naturally. Uh, in my first book, the Five Keys to Hypnotic Selling, I talk about that where as an exercise go out. Into the world. I mean, when we’re allowed to, obviously, yeah, go out to a food court, go out to a restaurant. You’ll see people who are in rapport, especially people who are on a date.

If they’re on a date and they’re in rapport, you see them matching and marrying and stuff like that. The date’s going well. But it’s very clear when the date is not going well. Yeah. . So that’s part of really starting to understand this and being aware of it and being sensitive to it. I think one of the things about, you know, that’s, I, I put in the new book and it’s, it’s really.

Ultimately about the seven levels of rapport. And so those seven levels actually, once you have it, and the first one is, is awareness. Because if you are not aware of the other person and the other person is not aware of you, mm-hmm. , you don’t have a chance for rapport because you just, I mean, you just, You don’t even know each other exists.

The second one is attention and it, it goes progressively up from there where you’re actually lowering your own boundaries to the other person. And when you do that in an appropriate manner, Knowing what level that you’re on. The other person responds. Now. That’s not the same as just like opening up, you know, there’s, as you know, there’s many comedy situations where I think the main one that comes to mind is that what about Bob?

I mean, you got this guy who’s just, you know, blathering on about everything, , you know, and it’s not appropriate. It’s actually very uncomfortable. For the other person when that happens. But when it happens in an appropriate manner, you there’s, there’s a real connection and a real bond where both sides are sharing, and that’s where the reporter lies.

Mm-hmm. . So then breaking it down to those seven steps, it starts with awareness. What’s next? Yes. It starts with awareness. Then it’s attention. Mm-hmm. , obviously you have to get the person’s attention. Where in fact, if you’re in a very transactional situation, you know the experience of say, you know, buying a, you know, a bottle of water at a, at a convenience store where you’re just giving the money to the cashier and the cashier gives you the money back and the person is basically just saying, Have a nice day, because that’s the automatic thing.

Mm-hmm. , that is no rapport there. Because you’re not really connecting, you’re not exchanging anything. I wanna pause there for a second cuz that’s, that’s a cool nuance that you just highlighted because I think that’s, that brings up something that I’ve said I think in most of my training since like 2015, and yet it’s one of those tiny elements I’ve never talked about on the podcast where sometimes the student in.

Intro hypnosis certification training will go well, what about if someone with this issue, and I’m trying to think of one that stands out. Cause they’re often like these little nothing other things. And I’m like, Well, as much as I’m the guy who talks about business and brings in themes of money and talks about how to scale, I’ll call it out first.

Money’s really not the motivator. I say no to a lot of stuff because it’s just not what I’m interested in. But to say it politely, There are some issues that are just not a big enough pain point that the person would pay for a professional service for that, right? Yeah. I had a client one time who goes, Can you hypnotize me to sleep on my back?

And my first thought was, Oh, what’s the medical situation? And she goes, Oh, no. Nothing. Now that I’m in my forties, the uh, wrinkle from the pillow stays in my face longer. And I slip and go, Look, my service is start at like 1500. She goes, Oh God, no, I wouldn’t pay. That goes like, Yeah, I figured, I mostly see like business owners with like fear of public speaking.

She goes, Oh, I’ve got that. Can we work on that? And you just like, you know, blend in the sleep thing. I’m like, Sure, come on. I, I would just do the hypnotic facelift and you know, she’ll enjoy that much more. I, I love what you’ve done though, in terms of taking a concept and breaking it into a system. This is from the guy who slaps the word system and everything that I do.

So, so walk us through three through seven of that. Yes. So from, from awareness to attention. Right. And, and you know, I preface this by saying, you know, report is not about liking people. It’s not about being liked, it’s about being on the same page. So the next one, uh, level three is respect. Where, you know, there’s a certain amount of respect we give each other, you know, because we’re brought up that way in our society.

You stand a certain distance from somebody and it’s just something that’s, that’s, you know, that’s. You grow up with. There’s other things like, uh, social conventions. When people are disrespectful, that’s what comes out. There’s also respect that you get from being you. Uh, in a professional situation, respect for skills, say for example, that is something that you can respect with somebody else and recognize in somebody else.

And that is a level of rapport that you can have with somebody. It’s not a deep, deep level of rapport, but it’s a really, really the beginning of leveraging it when you, when. Recognize somebody that’s attention and respect, recognizing for the things that they do well, you know, everybody likes that type of recognition.

Even when you’re adversaries, say, for example, and you can respect that person for what he or she does. Mm-hmm. . The next one after respect is trust. That’s when you know somebody has multiple times of demonstrating, not, doesn’t have to be directly demonstrating that that person is a person that you wanna be around with.

That is not going to, you know, stab you in the back or anything like that. That person is gonna come through with what he or she says they’re gonna do. That is really kind of, As soon as you have that trust level and you know somebody trusts you, that’s when you start having the bigger levers of rapport.

Mm-hmm. and the bigger levels of influence. Yeah. I like the way you highlight that because that pivot from trust to now respect. Respect is now putting action to it. Yes. And the trust is the faith that the action is gonna take place. Yeah. So nice. Uh, yeah. Which, which is a big deal. I mean, you know, I was, you know, just on a coaching call with somebody and he’s talking about his teenage daughter, where he’s.

Said, Look, I will give you $20 to clean up the twigs in the yard. And you know, and he gave her the $20 and she didn’t do it, you know, And so he had to ask for the money back because she didn’t do it. And you know, obviously teenagers, that’s, that’s the thing. But I said, Well, here’s the problem is A, you gave her the money up front.

So she had, and you also, instead of taking the money back, you could have said, Okay, well, you know, when she said she’ll do it tomorrow, it’s like, well, then it’s 15. You know, because, and you, I said, You don’t, you can tip her $5 for doing a good job. But she has to understand that she has to, to develop, right.

So she’s not respecting. Right the deal in that case. And so she doesn’t have the trust that is that she’s gonna do it. Yeah, because she didn’t come through. So the next one is affiliation. So when you trust somebody after that, you affiliation is about somebody you want to be associated with. It doesn’t mean you, you know, you want to be that person, but you want to be associated with that person.

You know, that person has a wider level of trust. Just beyond that personal interaction. That person is trusted by other people. By a number of people. And so they wanna be affiliated with that person. They wanna be around that person either learning from them or working with them or that type of thing.

You’re kind of in that position, Jason, you know, there are a lot of people wanna be affiliated with you because of, you know, you come through. Well, thank you for that. Yeah. So I love the way, well I’m a, I’m a customer too. I mean, I did buy your system, so , , no. But at the same time, I mean, looking at how the conversation continues in terms of.

You know there’s a trend. I’ll talk about something that’s someone else’s work. The group digital marketer, that’s Ryan d and Perry Cher, and it’s well known and draws a big convention online this year, to which I. Pivoted my ticket to September, 2021. Uh, that part of their conference, part of the structure, if, if you’ve heard of this group before, what they do is kind of interesting because really at the end of the day, they’re a venture capitalist firm and they buy up a bunch of different properties.

But the digital marketer segment is where they set some styles of marketing and they test it in different markets, and if it proves to work, , that’s when they teach it. So to see how they’re going from the free webinar to a pay for shipping only free product type thing. Mm-hmm. . But how they made that work for everything from makeup brushes to custom suits, you know, and everything and, and what they talked about the last time I went to one of their conferences was kind of on this theme of affiliation that of the biggest trending thing was community.

Yes. Even in their markets. Where they used to own a company they might still, which is all about survival, turning your house into a bunker. They went, this is the group that we didn’t expect to want to have community. And we put on a convention and it sold out within a week. Um Oh yeah. That people wanted to be a part of something.

Yes, exactly. And usually if, you know on the interpersonal level, people want to be around a person who leads, you know who they can learn from. And the next one is identification. Mm-hmm. , which is the next step where they wanna be like that person. So the affiliation is kind of, yeah, I wanna learn from them.

I wanna be associated with them identifications, they wanna be like that person. They wanna actually embody what that person embodies, which is much more of an inspirational thing. It’s where mentorship is, you know? So a lot of people talk about mentorship, that it’s like, I wanna be like that person. Yeah.

And so it’s much more of a charismatic. Type of thing. Affiliation very much is charismatic, but identification takes it to the next level. You know, where people are actually, you know, wanna be disciples, that type of thing. Yeah. And we see it in, in the hypnosis world. We see it in the business world actually.

We see it in, you know, basically all over. And the last and highest level of rapport is love. Where there’s really the, the lowering of the boundaries to, you know, where it, to the point where it’s a total interchange with the, with the other person. Mm-hmm. . What I like about that, Sorry, let me correct that, James.

What I love about that Yeah, there you go. Is that to look at it, that here’s this measurable range. And the other side question is that now how deep down that seven step system does someone have to go for that specific, let’s say relationship, that if it is indeed romantic relationship, then absolutely all the way to number seven with love, but then again, We can paraphrase some of these words and tell me if you’d align with this, that there, there’s something I heard years ago, which was all about, you know, sort of keeping the momentum of seeing a bunch of clients and not kind of, you know, getting caught up in the problem of the story.

My, my version of that is to go. Every client I see is good to great, and I heard someone else from more of a therapeutic background. Go find something to love about everyone you work with. Now, clearly not romantic love. Let’s not cross that line, but something in terms of passion, something in terms of fascination, but.

Kinda like you mentioned, here I am going into the gas station because the machine wouldn’t take my credit card, so I have to swipe it, endorse. That’s not gonna require all seven steps of rapport. That’s not gonna require all these levels. And to sometimes ask what’s the appropriate level that needs to be there.

We’re in the process of selling our home before going on travel for a little bit. And you know the, the guy who renovated my office, We’ll give a bid on doing some renovations at our home, but at the end of the day, even though we’ve got that rapport, it’s gonna go back to almost more of a transactional thing, you know?

But there’s gonna be favor in his direction, but not quite to the point of full love. No, not quite to the point of full love, but right now, because he did a good job, it sounds like. And I’ve seen your office. It’s beautiful. Oh, thank you. So hopefully he does a good job over your house, the job, but he, you a, you already have respect for his work and, and that he came through and somewhat you’ve trended towards trust because he came through for you previously.

Right. Exactly so you can operate on that level. You know where, where you know the boundaries are appropriate, where you probably can tell him, push him a little bit more on some of the things that you’re doing than maybe you would do with somebody who you’re just, just meeting. Right. Well, it’s where we can easily fall into that pattern of next, or I think about the conversation with the movers, which began with, Hey, you’ve moved my home twice.

You’ve moved my office twice. You’re already hired. That’s a high rate for that though. What can we do on that? Yes, exactly. Either you, you store it or I store it somewhere else for half the price, or you take that rate. What’s up? Yeah, exactly. And there you have, you, you already have respect and trust with them.

Now I’m curious and trust with you that, that you pay, right? Yes. You’re not a debt. Yeah. Which is a big thing for anybody. Like the story with the sticks we paid up front . Well, that’s right. That’s right. Although, I’m curious to hear then, how would you, if at all, apply this back to. So in terms of, let’s put this into a personal change aspect.

As your story began with self hypnosis, let’s bring it full circle. Where does it come into play? Or is it a different set of terminology or strategies in your world to say that now that ownership of our own success, that rapport, Back to ourselves, let’s just call it confidence. Okay. So that’s actually a very interesting thing, and I’ve been using this exercise that I learned that’s very interesting in the coaching world where we tell each other, we tell ourselves a lot of stories.

I mean, we’re just natural storytellers and our, our, basically, our whole experience is bound up in the stories we tell ourselves. And, you know, I’ve. Clients recently that I’ve used this with and I’ve done it myself, where you go through things as a, you know, child, adolescent, adult, and just mark off things that come to mind that are significant experiences, generally their experiences that were not particularly positive.

You know that Yeah. Those always come up first, right? So, So mark them down, write them down, and then think about the story you told yourself around that. Yeah. And. Ultimately the understanding is, okay, so if something happened to you when you were six or eight years old, right? And you know, that’s the story from the standpoint of a six or eight year old.

And then basically is like, well, should you be taking life advice from a six year old ? I mean, You know, so, so that is actually very revealing and it’s the perspective on the story that we have. You know, things like, a lot of it happens, especially, you know, childhood adolescent about feelings of worthiness, feelings of, you know, wanting to be better or wanting to be someone else.

These align very closely with, you know, where, you know, the levels of report are. So, you know, are you, you know, are you, for example, Do you respect who you are? Mm-hmm. , right? Or do you trust yourself? Right. Where is, where’s the trust here? Well, you know, when I did this, I, you know, I, My judgment was off when I was 12.

Right, And, And then everything went wrong from there. Well, yes, but that was your 12 year old’s judgment. Yeah. . I mean, so I mean, so do, do you know more now, right? Who do you identify with? Do you identify with yourself as that six year old? And again, we do this with regression work as well, you know, a lot of that.

But this is actually something that’s very accessible for people, especially if they’re not deeply into hypnosis. Do. Are you identifying with the six year old who you know, was disappointed or, or you know, was told that he or she was not good enough? Or are you identifying with who you are now? Yeah. Nice.

Or you know, and then, you know, what are the, the boundaries you set around yourself because of that, that when you were six years old, when you’re trying to protect yourself mm-hmm. , and are you still using them? I love that. That’s extremely practical and very helpful. So how can people get in contact with you?

Where can they learn more? They can learn more, they can reach out to [email protected]. They can also, uh, reach out to me through Facebook. You know, I have my author page for the, basically, you know, myself, for the other books I’ve done as well as, you know, personally connect on Facebook. That would be fine.

You know, always happy to expand the network. Yeah, this has been fantastic. Uh, give us a quick walkthrough of the books that people can track down and we’ll, we’ll put links to all these in the show notes [email protected] as well. Okay, so the new book is Influential Rapport, Influence and Persuade and Work Life and Leisure.

The first book that I did, which was also an Amazon best seller, correct. The five keys to hypno selling and basically the way they work together is the five keys to hypno Excel is very, very practical. It’s really, it’s short, easy to read, gives you things that you can use right away. That’s what it was built for, but.

The thing is, it is a tactical book. These are techniques that you use, you know, you can use it in just about every situation, and they do work. Influential Rapport is much more of a strategic book about where to use those skill sets and, and how hard you should push in those skill. And there will be another upcoming book, tentatively titled The Persuasion Pyramid.

Which is going to, It’s my persuasion model. It is stepped in the same way that this is, but it is actually, again, an extremely strategic book about where to use the different skill sets and especially about where the person you’re trying to influence and persuade or sell to. And I’d say a sale is any type of interaction.

Mm-hmm. , where, you know, it could be, uh, you know, a different, you know, an idea. It could be, uh, you. Where do you wanna go to? You know, what movie do you wanna see? That type of thing where it’s actually very strategic. Where is the other person and how do you then go around or either, either meet that person at that level or go around that level in order to go to the level that is actually either controlling or influence that.

Beautiful. I love it. It’s been awesome getting to know you over the last couple of years too, and seeing, uh, a little bit more inside in terms of the thinking, the approach, but really fantastic stuff. Check out those books again. We’ll link to them in the show [email protected]. James, before we wrap up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there?

Well, I think it’s all about persuading and influencing people ethically. You know, essentially these skills can be used really, really to bad effect, but at the same time, there’s no reason to. Once you get good at it, it’s very much like martial arts. Once you learn how to. Defend yourself, and I am an instructor in Filipino martial arts as well.

You don’t feel the need to fight anybody because you’re comfortable with yourself and, and, and who you are and what you can do. You know the consequences of what you can do, and I think the. Better people get at this, the more ethically they can work. So, you know, I think this is something with the people that I’ve met in this industry for the most part, and, and that’s why I tend to associate, see.

Getting back to the, uh, nicely done , uh, with people like, you know, I C B C H, Soci Society of n o p. Very happy to, you know, to work within those areas and with those people because they’re coming from a very good place. And, and I think that is very important. Come from the right place. You will never find a shortage of.

You know, to work with and to to be able to be successful with Jason Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, for leaving your reviews online and using this as a resource and your continued education. Once again, head over to the show notes. Work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 0 8.

That’ll bring you to the show notes of this episode to find out how to connect with James and definitely check out and grab his books. And once more, head over to hypnotic business systems.com. Everything from the ground up, both passive strategies and active strategies to help you to startup and scale up your hypnosis business with methods that actually work.

Check that. Hypnotic business systems.com. See you on the inside. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.