Podcast Session #309 – Wieslaw Rocki on Improvisational Healing


Wieslaw Rocki is a health coach and the Owner of Self-Healing Care. He has a medical background as a doctor in Europe, later moving to the United States to continue his work and further explore the complementary healing arts. He is an author of Embrace Your Grace: A Physician’s Guide to Dynamic Self-Healing, a speaker, scientist, and educator who formerly owned the N. Virginia Mind-Body Medicine Clinic. Wieslaw holds a Masters and Doctorate in Medicine, Physiology, Obstetrics, and Gynecology from the Medical University of Bialystok in Poland. He conducted postgraduate research in psychopharmacology at the University of Michigan Medical School and a medical residency at The University of Connecticut School of Medicine

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Wes joins me today to share the principles of improvisational healing. He shares how you can take improvisational theatrical arts themes and bring them into the healing arts. He reveals how improvisation can have a role inside hypnotherapy and make everything you do much better. He also discusses the No and Yes states of mind and how to create new future possibilities using the “Yes, and” approach while breaking down the steps to help your clients rewrite their script and break free from bad

“Improv is not a technique. It is a state-of-mind from which I will handle other techniques” – Wieslaw Rocki

  • Why we need to combine the expertise of the hypnotherapist and client to achieve better results
  • Why you need to heal yourself before you can heal clients and why it is vital to meet the client on the same level
  • Creating a safe environment with hypnotherapy to resolve problems and enable healing
  • The yes and no states of mind and how we tend to live our lives in a default defensive state
  • Projection and why you need to believe for your client to believe
  • How to utilize improvisation to help clients change beliefs and break free from scripted roles
  • The four stages of learning and breaking the habit of being yourself
  • Creating a future through the Yes And technique and exploring new choices

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Podcast Episode Transcripts:

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 300 and. We saw Rocky on Improvisational Healing. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. You know, it’s kind of an interesting thing that sometimes someone comes on to this program as a guest and they share a specific method of change.

Which then you could go off and use that method with your clients and get some really cool results. Similar to that, oftentimes IHOP on here in a solo episode, and I share a specific business marketing method, which you could then go off and use that one specific method to book more clients or to better scale your business.

What I’d mentioned is it’s rare that we can have someone who can come on here and introduce a theme, and to have this one theme, make everything that you do so much better. Well, that’s a gift when that happens, and that’s exactly what this week’s episode is all about. For many of you, this might be your first opportunity to meet West Rocky.

We, law Rocky, who I’ve actually known for a number of years now, he was previously in Fairfax, Virginia with an office nearby my office over in Alexandria and then Springfield, Virginia, and then as a wonderful sort of coincidence here, A number of years ago, he moved down to Florida and it turns out the area that we’re gonna be shopping for a home for in the next couple of months is not too far away.

Something in the water, I guess. And coming from a background as a medical doctor over in Europe to then transferring over here to the United States and then continuing that practice. And then over the years getting involved with hypnosis and several other integrative sort of healing approaches. And then I’d share with you the turning.

Where I realized that Dr. Rocky was onto something, and it involves one of my favorite people in the world. We went to a local theater venue, a local movie theater house that also hosts standup comedy, and it was the comedian Emo Phillips, which if you don’t yet know, this is the funniest man ever to have lived one of the most ripped off comedians in all of comedy.

By the way, if you’ve seen the classic movie That’s right. Sorry. Classic film. UHF starring weirdo Yankovic. Emo Phillips was the shop teacher who cut his thumb off, which sounds horrific unless you’ve seen the scene, then it’s absolutely hilarious. Emo Phillips, by the way, is the source of the favorite line of my trainings.

I used to think the brain was the most intelligent organ in the body, and then I asked myself, Who’s telling me? Ba bum. So it was along this journey that I reconnected with Dr. Rocky and found out that he had been rather involved with tracking improvisational comedy, comedy writing, and looking at ways of how we can take the themes of improvisational theatrical arts into the healing arts.

And that’s exactly what you’re about to hear. Conversation all about. And you’ll see there’s more information in terms of how to get in contact with Wes in terms of his website over at the show [email protected] And while you’re there, check out hypnotic business systems.com. That’s the all access pass to my hypnosis business training library, step by step tutorials done for you marketing methods.

And it’s the stuff that actually works to get out there and better to scale your business and continuing this yes and theme. Becomes an amazing nuance of this conversation, plus a few games that the doctor and I played towards the end of our conversation here, bringing in themes of flexibility, learning on the fly and not getting stuck in the script as terms of what’s not working and instead of continuing this conversation of what will work and how can we make things, Even better along the way.

You are in for a fascinating conversation and an inspirational theme that will make all of your work all the more effective. And with that, let’s jump directly in. This is episode number 309. We saw Rocky on improvisational healing as, uh, everyone in the healing profession. I was, uh, I am motivated. Self healing first because you know, in our profession, hypnotherapy, we know that we are just working with the mirrors.

And what happened in our clients actually reflects what is happening in us. We are not healing anyone. We’re just inspiring one to look at one’s own capacity to self heal, so that travel of exploring. How can I heal my broken soul? Broken soul by childhood trauma and then a quiet couple others, trauma and now collective trauma.

How can I find something really effective, which will not just make me more comfortable with adjusting to the situation, but really serve as a vehicle to reconnect it with my true. Identity. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So then, which catch us up for those who don’t yet know, you talk about the, the path before in terms of being a doctor and then getting involved with hypnosis.

Yes. You know, this is common path for the physicians who moved from conventional to holistic medicine. Uh, I’ve been very traditional. I used to be a gynecologist back in Poland was teaching university. And then became an internist here in America, followed by scientist and corporate executive for pharmaceutical industry for many years.

And then I came to conclusion that these are good vehicles, but something is missing that we, I need to go deeper and through some, uh, personal crisis, exploring spirituality, following. Gurus, I moved on the opposite side of the very, very, very esoteric, but not very grounded. So then I was looking to come to the middle to some, a modality, which combines this alchemy, that esoteric healing on the very deep level, yet very grounded.

Practicality of it. So obviously hypnotherapy was of choice. There was no one, nothing else or parable. I like the, the choice of words you just used there, by the way, in terms of grounded, what I heard inside of that was being mindful in terms of what hypnosis and hypnotherapy can do while also being, of course, mindful of perhaps the, let’s phrase it this way, as a positive, the the appropriate limitations of.

Yeah, my, my limitation, I, I practiced hypnotherapy for a couple years. What, what I had, uh, kind of resistance to was still, maybe this was my interpretation, but that kind of pahar approach when I was that hypnotherapist and there was a client and I had some skills, which my client didn’t have, and I have the capacity to help them with good intention.

And even, you know, I, I was using Dave Phraseology, I was using material which they offer to, to meet them when they are. It was still for me, uh, roles, and I hated this in medicine, In conventional medicine, you know, we have this well defined role. Of a doctor and rail, uh, well defined role of the patient, and these two parties are completely following the scripted performance of being a doctor, of being a patient, and nothing happens.

When they leave the room, there is still doctor and there is still patient, and there is, What is missing is healing. And it’s funny because , the patient comes with a scripted performance of being patients following the script of given disease. And they meet a doctor and they live with another script for the prescription drug

So nothing happens. And then hypnotherapy brought me a little bit closer because I was taught many ways of practice circle client oriented hypnotherapy, and I like it very much. But then, What was missing was this, you know, mystical emergence of two people with a unique knowledge. We decided to play together for the purpose of healing you.

We have two experts. I have my unique expertise, but it is not enough. Has to be combined with the unique expertise. Of my patient. And then we are coming into the dance. And in improv, in traditional improv, the originator of improv, Viola Pollen, one of her, uh, main games was to follow the follower that now as we dance in healing dance, we are taking turns in following.

And leading, Following and leading. I love some of the themes you’ve just introduced there in terms of how to describe the process. That there’s a, there, there’s an idea that I hit upon years ago about at times, and there’s positives inside of this, that there only needs to be one expert in the room.

That’s not just to say that the client’s role is to only follow us. No, because it’s that the client is the expert in some ways about what that challenge has been up until now, as well as what that outcome ought to be. So we need to make use of their expertise in terms of designing the process that’s gonna help them to achieve that.

Meanwhile, we can be the expert in terms of the modalities and the different integrative approaches that we use. So it’s that meeting of those two minds. Of something that, as you’ve said from a, you know, from an improvisational structure, that’s what becomes the process as opposed to playing out those old roles the way that it would seem to be before, right?

Yes. And there is even deepen connection on the level of wound that healer and wound that person because the wounds inspire us to wake up from the hypnotic trans of the disease paradox. So this is the blessing of the symptoms that people get determined to heal when they cannot take anymore . Mm-hmm.

when they have no other choice but to heal. And then they’re coming with broken heart in, in pieces and they are meeting my broken heart in pieces. And then we. Play this Japanese role game or art of putting broken voice using the gold, true gold as a cement and create some completely new different art.

That’s why I now I take pride that I am wounded healer, which is different that impair, heal. Impair healer would be the one who has some problem, which impair the capacity to heal. The wounded healer is using actually exploring on one on shadow work on dark Night of the soul of the inner basement of subconsciousness.

To meet patient on the same level because this is where the work happens. Because you know, they, they come the client, Oh, actually let me bring this beautiful statement with the contemporary Mystic Ram does. Yeah. Who said, We all walk each other home, we all walk each other home. So that, that way. The act of healing is the act of sharing.

I love that, and that is so essential because my focus is now on helping people. To heal emotional trauma that originally, you know, this was kind of assumed that something happens in childhood and then we get hurt and carry this wound throughout life. And unless it’s healed, our life is not particularly healthy and happy.

But the idea. That there was something happening to us and then we have to, uh, heal that memory of happen. But there is a beautiful doctor, Dr. Gab, matte Canadian expert on addictions and trauma, and he always says that it is not actually what happened to us, but what has changed in us as a result of what happened to us.

So that approach release me from digging back with the techniques, trying to explore. Implicit memory, the painful memory, which wisdom of consciousness hide this deep, deep in the basement of consciousness and for reason, so it, it cannot be easily accessed and re traumatize. But the good news is that we have excellent access to that in the present moment.

Because at the end of the day, what is in me today? Is to, to some extent the sum of what happened to me throughout my life. Right. Yeah. I think that’s a massively important perspective that, you know, to look at as the phrasing is here, the healing process moving forward. That it’s not so much about who, what, when, where, and why.

It’s more so the how of. Of moving forward. Uh, what, what I’m curious to ask you here, cuz always looking at that, that journey to get to where you are now, what was some of that track? What was some of that perspective in terms of first getting into hypnosis, let’s say, and, and looking at how do we now combine these different elements?

And then I definitely wanna get over to the improvisational work that you’ve been doing, but how would you kind of draw out that map, that personal discovery aspect of this to. Eventually create where you’re at now. Well, first realization was that I surrendered myself to the fact that my life is scripted, , that I am running on autopilot with a script following ency, the script, which may be not appropriate any longer from my circumstances, and on most occasion, it’s actually not my script.

So that brought my curiosity to hypnotherapy as a door. To explore my script because when we are heard, when we carry this un healed trauma, we live life in the script of the default, No attitude and oh, which started as a resilience, as a survival tools. Which allow us to survive often life threatening situation, and part of the deal was to establish strong resilience.

Then no, no, no, this, this is my boundary. This is how I’m going to survive. And that save our lives. It’s not only in childhood, but throughout life. But the problem with that is when that. Becomes default. Yeah. Then the no is no longer to particular event, particular patterns. The no becomes the no to life itself.

So then we have the same default no to the good and bad in our life and as applies to to. You know, we have this thinking medicine that the bulk of medicine are chronic disease. 90% of medical work is chronic diseases, and among those probably 80% are socalled autoimmune diseases. So even diabetes, most of the heart conditions, whatever are have immunologic background.

And then we have this legend in medicine that this is, you know, your body is attacking yourself, which for me never makes any sense because this is not how. Create or design us, and then with exploring hypnotherapy and exploring this scripted, no, it came to me that it is actually us, our set of mind negative patterns and heal traumatic patterns, which we interfere.

With our body capacity to heal itself. So actually paradoxically, we are attacking our body as we are attacking and fighting in life. And as everyone says, fighting your life, you always lose. And I believe that this is why. Why we are sick holding this no attitude and that, you know, the deal with that is very difficult.

Because in order to heal the no attitude, it is just, which is just part of the sound resilience, is to create a safe environment. The safe is necessary for healing, which obviously we know hypnotherapy, creating safe environment. Remember Albert Einstein statement? He was asked, What is the most important question from your whole career?

What is the most important? And he said, Well, the most important question is whether we live in the safe or dangerous universe. And then, you know, then hypnotherapy comes and say, Hello, hello . You know, you are creating this universe, . Try to remember there, there’s a quote that, I forget the source of it, but it was phrased one time as almost a negative criticism.

And as soon as I read it, I. Well, yeah. And which the quote was, the people who study this stuff walk around as if they figured out the entire world, which I go, Well, what’s the harm in that to, to look at how so much of our language, You’re right. You know, puts us deeper into that problem. So much of people’s language puts them further into their issue as opposed to, you know, getting into that better sense of flow with, uh, how we respond to the world around us, and which is where.

Talk to us about where the improvisational work came into this, then I’m curious to hear that. That’s right. That is, that is where I’m heading now, that now to heal this default know, which I believe is the root cause of chronic diseases, is that it is necessary unless we do something extra . Mm-hmm. , it is necessary because you see, we, we developed this snow in relation.

For example, childhood trauma and then the parental abusers are gone and the default is still there. So actually we create illusionary abusers because we are addicted to, to defense, to the know, to the resilience, to resistance, to rejection. And then we start looking for this in our reality. I believe the Malo said that if all you have is hammer, right?

Everything is nail for you. Mm-hmm. . So then we come to this hypnotic ion that we can resolve our problems, that we can, that we can figure out how to get out from that emotional trauma. But then we arrive. Through life being the abuser to unself to maintain the default, to maintain the script. And now we are arriving to the time, like now 2020 when we are all facing collective trauma.

Right? When our default know can actually, hypnotically can be justified by what is happening. Mm-hmm. . So then it comes the improv, which is yes. And. And yes, it’s not actually award. It is suddenly not expression of acceptance. For me, in the transformational improv, which I am practicing, it’s a state of mind.

It’s a level of consciousness. It is finding if my psyche that place, which is yes, which is I am. Which is I am at my highest. And actually, no, I heard from a philosopher that the word no is actually manmade. That it doesn’t exist in the universe. The universe is always in the Yes. And you know we know this from also hypnotherapy, that it is the vibration, inner vibration, which decides.

What we achieve. So it is not what we want, but who we are. What comes to us. Right? Hmm. That, that’s an amazing concept. Uh, the premise that the word no had to be invented by people. We’ve all heard the phrasing that the unconscious mind may not know the difference between, you know, negation of saying, you know, don’t think of a purple elephant.

That, you know, when we look at that concept that everything is a yes. What, what would you say opens up differently than as a result of that premise? The yes and no. It’s a full sentence. Yeah. And one cannot exist without others. For example, in transformational improv, we are using, Yes, excuse me. We are using no, because in real life we need to say no on justified occasions.

But the problem is that unless it is proceeded by unconventional, yes. The No cannot be strong because as psychologists will say, you cannot change anything which you can, which you don’t own. Right? Hmm. So the yes is introduction because it’s state of mind. So now coming now back to something which we share.

You have obviously strong tradition in theater as a stage manager, right? Yes. Used to be. And then on this, uh, stage hypno hypnosis, stage hypnosis, which I remember you started with, very, very important because you were doing this with young people in schools, right? Right. Yeah, that’s, that was the origin story for me.

Yeah, so this was the molding, This was a very, with a very high accountability. So we are all actors on the stage of. And we are performing scripted drama. The problem is that most of the time we are not aware of the script, but our health and happiness depend on our ability to explore our memorized script, to adjust it, to rewrite it, to meet the demands and opportunities of our current circumstances.

Right. And, and you know, that is our basic. Survival. We cannot not be actors. We can just refuse to participate in the process and then we are still doing scripted performance. Of somebody, somebody else script written for us. There’s a quote that I think you’d love here. It was a French magician by the name of John Eugene, Robert Huan.

And long story short, Huan was who a young boy named Eric Weiss modeled, and Eric Weiss changed his name to be Harry Houdini from having studied Eric, uh, Robert Huan. And the quote was that a magician? Is an actor playing the role of a magician. And the whole premise behind that original quote was that if the magician were on stage and thinking, Okay, I need to hold my hand at this specific angle so the audience can’t see the coins that I’m hiding and I need to move it in this way, then they’re projecting to the audience that it’s simply.

You know, almost as if a juggling stunt as opposed to if that magician were to step into the role that even they believe they were coins hidden in these invisible pockets in the air and then pluck them out. The sooner the magician believes the trick to also be magic, the sooner the audience will join them in that journey.

And this is a quote that I’ve brought up for years inside of hypnosis trainings, that we are stepping into a role. We are stepping into an identity. Whether it’s simply the role of the practitioner of hypnosis or even matching up to the expectation that the client has as to why they reached out to a hypnotist in the first place.

So, So what do you say, What do you find, let’s say, is gained by accepting this almost scripted role, this performance role that we’re now moving into as a practitioner? In improv, we have the same role as you just described, which is if you believe in what you are now projecting in terms of emotions or content or your body position, if you believe in the message which is containing this, the audience we believe, Yeah, so the same applies if I believe, then my patient believes, right?

And in improv we have this beautiful therapeutic settings of interactions between the actor and character. Because , the actor, is me who decides to go on the stage for particular purpose. But for that, I have to create many different characters and let them play with each other to arrive to that conclusion, to, to solve the problem, or to fail to solve the problem.

So it is kind of surrogate for me as a actor safe environment of playing with paid for characters who are doing dirty and funny stuff of healing for me, , And they’re doing the same for audience because the audience comes to improve, to watch what they. Other ways, not ever dare to do in their lives. And this is the role of character the best.

Describe that. For example, you have a house on fire, the natural tendency of human will be running away. And actor follows that running away. However, the character does opposite it, running towards the burning house, and this is the miracle of breaking identity with myself, which leaves to breaking through established script.

I believe that Joe Dispenser wrote the. Breaking the habit of being yourself, right? Mm-hmm. . So if that habit is being sick, and then I have to help you to get better, I am dealing with two components with your sickness and your habit of being, of being sick. And unless I will inspire and help you to break this habit of being sick, which is the extra on top of disease, I won’t be able to even touch the healing of the disease.

Which is beautiful because again, we’re then identifying with the person as opposed to their issue. That mindset of see the client as where they’re going as opposed to the issue that they’ve been inside of. So bringing in the improvisational theme, is this something that then needs to be, let’s say, introduced to the client, or does it become sort of the subtext of the process?

How would you go about defining. Well, it’s a improv is not technique. Mm-hmm. , it’s a state of mind from which I will handle other techniques. Yeah. For example, let’s use uh, an example of parts therapy in hypnotherapy. Right. And I was proud to remember to take classes with Dr. Hunter, right? Yeah. Roy, Harry, Roy Hunter in the, in your office actually.

That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. And, and I was, you know, very obedient student and trying my best, and then I tried to really apply it, but I got lost. In this complexity of many, you know, personas talking to each other and me directing the show, or who is saying whom, and eventually they come to good conclusion, which means that some personas are kind of asked to leave or retire, whatever.

For me, maybe coming from medicine, which is very head heady art, I was very suspicious of heady arts. And I got lost in it. So then improve comes. And say, Well, fantastic in improve everything you regard as a gift, which you expand on it. So for example, if the improve game, my partner say you and bloody idiot, right?

the natural tendency of human will be, No, no, no. Or how dare you, or even I will attack you, the character in pre improv saying, Oh yes, I know I am super idiot, , I will prove you how idiot can be. And do you know what? Please help me to be even better, Idiot. Mm-hmm. . And what is the healing aspect of. First that I can taste with my guts.

What really means to be an idiot? How does it feel to be an idiot so I can catch myself when I’m idiot? And I don’t know about this . And like, you know, there’s this, the story that for that people, some that people don’t know that they are dead. And it doesn’t hurt them because it hurts only family. And the same goes for stupid people.

So, So this is the one aspect, but the healing aspect is that it breaks my habit. To be associated, which with my habit that this is completely contrary in what would be my habitual attitude. So if I carry this forward to being habitually sick, I have already some tool saying that it’s possible to play against or beyond of that.

Mm-hmm. also, what is important in playing what is given as a gift even. That I can modulate. This is, you know, another technique of this kn of the modulating volume on the pain, right? In hypnotherapy that I, that I ask a client to visualize this panel and there is a kn to turn up and down pain, right? Yeah.

So the same would be applied in this technique. So in parts therapy from the improv point of. I say, I welcome you guys. Let’s play. But you have to play on the improv roles that you play to make each other looking good. You listen to each other because you’ll be building on what your partner said. You’ll be adding that and we can get into conflict.

We can resolve very. Dramatically different point of view, but we all agree to one thing that we, no matter what happens, we preserve our relationship and once the thing is done, we are back to actors who go for beer and they love each other. And for me, this is much simpler thing and it’s easier for patient to accept this.

It is just play. The gatekeeper of the subconscious mind is relaxed, saying, No, no, nothing serious. They’re just playing. So, and also we know that the play is the place where we learn. Right? Yeah. I love that as a theme of, you know, that that’s sorting out in almost a more playful sense, that rather than this place of conflict, rather than two parts working in opposition.

Instead bringing in this, this playful spirit to the aspect of the work there. And by doing so, bringing about that yes and theme, I think, you know, above all being one of the easiest things that people could start to implement as opposed to, well, back to the hammer. No, that technique’s not going to work.

Well instead, well, how can I make that work? How can I bend this in such a way that we can be more flexible inside of what we’re doing? Right. Right. And the, the lesson. That paradoxically, in improv we can, We learn solving problems by breaking from hypnotic trans. Which tells us that we can solve the problems.

Mm-hmm. , because you know, we have all good minds, but we know that using just our mind and willpower, we cannot heal ourselves and then we try to control. Even more with the beliefs that we have power to solve the problem, but this is not the place from which problem can be solved. So for example, one of the comedic principle of the improv is that you per, you try to solve problem on the stage and you keep failing at.

And you keep trying and failing and trying, and this is the place when the audience can really be with you because this is all what we all doing, all when we are trying on stage to apply reasonable tools for something crazy. All the opposite. When we applying crazy tools to something which is real. All this are magical tricks.

To, to break our default association. In other words, to give us opportunity to say, Well, I am running scripted life, so why don’t I look up? What is the script and then this is what is hypnotherapy about, Right. Help helping people to write the script, right? Yeah. Except that improv. In improv, I am giving more, I’m inviting more people to do this for themself in playful way because I can surrender expectation that I may know.

What is good for them? Because from my life I learn that on the level of my mind, I really don’t know very often what is good for me. But there is a good, good news that if I surrender, if I disassociate myself from that socalled analytical thinking and go to my higher wisdom or super conscious, some call it whatever, Then the solution comes.

Right? Because it was always there. Right? Yeah. I love the theme that you just introduced about how. You know, often it is, it’s part of, you know, the classic structure of a play. Act one, introduce the hero. Act two, get them up in a tree, Act three, get them down. That’s, there’s a basic structure of how we put it together, but in terms of having something that’s got some conflict, having something that’s gonna have.

You know, a reason to have us continue to watch are these opportunities where it doesn’t quite go exactly as planned. And you’re, you’re, you’re phrasing there made me remember back, and I’ll be very, very general here for obvious reasons. Uh, but it was a time that we had a juggler involved in a professional production.

And, and the whole bit was, it was the standard. Where the juggler is going to balance this board on top of a ball. So there’s a balancing aspect to it. And then he is gonna juggle five clubs, which I can’t do that. And he could, And the whole setup of this was the classic comedy in threes would be the idea that he fails.

Once he sets up again, he fails. The second time he sets up again, and then he’s triumphant the third time. Big applause. And. I think unfortunately, we may have not hired the best of juggler for this event because it turned into this whole routine that by the eighth or ninth attempt, he still could not do it.

And the director having to jump in to go, it’s still tragedy. It still has to be comedy because you have to eventually do it, make it happen faster. And he goes, I can’t. I was like, Okay, I’ll just go with three clubs then, and that that was the solution. We we’re, We’re breaking that scripted role, as you’ve said.

We’re breaking. Scripted role of the Trifa try fail. Is there a theme that you feel needs to be introduced then to the client in terms of how to break that, that pattern that they’ve been inside of then? Oh yeah. That, uh, one of the principles of improv is to celebrate mistakes. So actually in on the improv stage, when somebody makes mistakes, we applauded.

We actually celebrate mistake, which sometime gives the inappropriate conclusion that we are encouraging mistakes, but it is not encouraging mistakes. It is to break this habit of connecting mistake. With our conclusion about us doing mistake, because what really hurts us in when mistake hunts us as a emotional trauma, it’s not mistake itself because mistake is relative.

One day I think that I did. Right thing divorcing. And when I meet nice girl, I would say it was the best decision. My lie, right? . Yeah. So, so that is relative, but what is not relative? When I get stuck in that remorse after my divorce, connecting conclusion that I am a loser. Because if this is not heal, I can meet 15 pretty girls and I lose them.

So the accepting mistakes and celebrating mistakes lead me to the place where mistakes should lead me to learning from them. Because somebody said, If I don’t learn from mistake, what is the purpose of doing them over, over again? . So this is the beauty, Another beauty of improv. So when the first thing in healing, I believe, healing from that scripted performance of misery is to explore the script, right?

Mm-hmm. . So we are waking up from the hypnotic trans of illusion of having control. And then we are moving from the default. There is a four stages of learning. The first stage of learning is, I don’t know, that I don’t know, right? Mm-hmm. , my life is reason miserable. I am sick. I am messing up, and I don’t know what the hell is come happening, right?

I have no idea. And then I am moving to. I’m becoming so broken that I am committed to figure it out and I got to the stage that I know that I don’t know. And this is the mystical stage of hero journey. 12 steps, any choson miracles, The level of surrender. Surrender, not of weakness, but surrender of the curiosity.

Yeah. Right. This must be something else. I am missing. And then from that place, like in hero journey or the mystical Buddhist journey, I am leaving the marketplace. I hear the message that there is something more. I am leaving the marketplace and go to meet the Wild animal. Wild Ox or Christianity would be Dark Night of the Soul and I am riding this Wild ox and then becoming one with the wild.

A. And I get new understanding and coming back to, uh, marketplace. So to write the neuro, to write my scripted, which is which function, which the action is the same as neuroplasticity. We have to bring this. New script coming back from the discovery and comparison, how this old script relates to our current circumstances.

This is where, you know, improv help us to break habit of being yourself, break habit of associating with we believe it is us, which we believe was surrounding our life, and then comes that surrender. This. Yes. Unconditional. Yes. Which suddenly opens me up to my amazing resources. That’s right. That’s why we’re saying unconditional.

Yes, and resourceful and, and then again, using improv principle, we, we are determined to perform in our highest intelligence. I love that. I love that point you just made. About how it’s that unconditional. Yes, but really the resourcefulness is out of the end. That the mistake someone could make upon hearing this would be to go that, oh, that’s just accepting the problem and it’s that, well, we’ll allow a no here,

It’s instead that continuation of, Yes, and here’s what I can do about it. Yes. And here’s what we can now begin to let become even more flexible. Yes. And here’s the result that I’m now moving towards because of this. This is beautiful what you said, because this very thing guards us from mental psycho bubble of Yes.

Mm-hmm. , you know, which is most often it’s actually no in, in hiding. I, I hate something and I don’t feel like working on changing this. So I bring some. You know, uh, illusionary story that I’m capable to accept and. Yes. Or even the, even the connection you just made about, that’s part of the story. Even inside of the 12 step that, you know, we’re part of our community would go, Oh, that’s a negative suggestion for the person to say I’m an alcoholic.

Yet when that yes and is applied to that, I’m an alcoholic. And here’s how I’m now living my life. Here’s what I’m doing to take better care of myself. Now there’s a continuation to that story, and it’s no longer the, the perception of the constant victim of that circumstance. Yes. The yes and is the full sentence and say, Yanking yang, that dancing together, they cannot exist without each other.

And only on that relat. Everything else is being built. So now we are ready to actually rewrite our script. And you know, there are two ways of rewriting our script. One is to get, uh, suggestions like in hypnotherapy sessions, and we may be good to bad in giving suggestion, which should be more or less appropriate for given patient and, uh, for me that that approach.

For me, it carries risk. I don’t feel very comfortable. That’s why I’m so excited by improv, because in improv, the patient improve, The characters are trying out different scripts, different behavior, and what is the most important that they’re trying out in the safe environment of the game? Mm-hmm. that there are no consequences.

It’s just game. That, you know, in the end of the scene we say, Whoops, we’ll make this stuff anyway. Doesn’t exist now in, in improv me, 72 year white male, I can be completely vested in being Asian teenage, or I can be completely vested in being can of. For the purpose, and I do this with full en involvement, full entertainment, full presence without any legal accountability.

So I, similar to that, it’s, it’s the understanding that even. For dramatic actors that the power of improvisation was that you were then learning how to access those emotions without the burden of having to memorize lines that, you know, actors at an improvisational scene in, in a acting class. It wasn’t always, you know, the comedy thing that we would expect from things on television, like, whose line is it anyway, that instead here were some extremely emotional moments.

I remember liberal arts college having to go through acting classes. You know, suddenly the door slams and she walks in and he, she suddenly says something to the other man in the scene, which is deeply provocative, and now they have to act that out. When there was not the burden of, again, having to stop and memorize it, and this is how you see actors who can call upon real emotion that quickly, which, you know, back to the whole conversation you just brought up about in terms of the mindset of mistakes or accidents, there’s no failure.

There’s feedback. Here’s the continuation of here’s how we set this all forward. You mentioned in an email before we connected. About wanting to play a game while we were here recording. What did you have in mind? Oh, so, uh, let’s start with a very simple game. When we continue our conversation and we have to use yes and yes, and we have mm-hmm.

we just continue conversation and using one, two sentences. But every sentence has to start with yes and, and has to expand. On what you, me, as a partner use. So for example, now it’s, it’s so nice to to talk with you. Yes. And I’m looking forward to moving down to Florida and having you as a nearby neighbor apparently.

Yes. And I can already see our getting together in the picnic table. Yes. And I’m looking forward to the idea that in Florida, all the picnic tables are decorated to look like Mickey Mouse. And yes, I can even smell, you know, the Mickey Mouse hopping on the table. You see, And this is . We are creating future, right?

Yes. Already future pacing. But let’s do something else. You, uh, one of us will be speaking a story, something, uh, real irreg. I woke up and I did that and I will be interrupting you questioning. Are you sure? Did it happen? Are you sure? And and your job will be to adjust to have second thoughts on that. So why don’t you start with something which really happened.

It’s nothing exciting. Okay. This morning I watched the people in our, uh, former home ripping up the floors as they’re putting in. Are, are you sure it was floor? Well, you know, it might have actually been carpet that they were putting down, but then again, they were also putting grass in the backyard too.

Oh, grass. I, I, I never heard about this. Well, now that you mention it, I’m thinking that really we might be putting a whole swimming pool in the backyard just so people can swim around rather than having to keep up with the grass. No, no, no. I I don’t believe that it’s possible. No, no, no, no. Well, actually it’s a whole series of monkey bars that we’re putting above the backyard.

That way we don’t have to bother with the surface beneath, you see? So this is, this is, again, separation, exploring what is actually true for yourself. Mm-hmm. patient comes. And they come not with a disease, they come with a personal story about the disease, right? Mm-hmm. . And until there is this still firm connection about the disease and the story about disease, I can do nothing because the connection is like glue in.

So like patient comes and starts interview and saying, Well, that word, what? And, uh, I would start with obviously not the first visit, but I will start with the lighter play saying each time I say New choice, you have refr. You have to rephrase last word you said. So why don’t you start, for example, say something.

Okay. Um, I need to get a scratch prepared on my car. New, new choice. I need to add some more scratches to my car. A new choice of your tone. You’re. I’m really excited about these scratches on my car. New choice of moving your head in different direction. , Uh, this is great for audio. I’m really excited about some scratches on my car.

Wow. You see, you, you, you really did it on the radio. Wow. This is fantastic. But you see, this is the same thing of waking up people from hypnotic trans. Of performing scripted drama. Well, I think that that hits on something massive there, where we become the identity of the ailment as opposed to the person looking to resolve or move past the ailment.

Correct. And now with this knowledge, we are ready for next step in writing the script, which is the step I know that I know. You know, in this conversation we already discovered so many things. That honestly, in this conversation, which I believe is healing conversation, that we both will be changed by this conversation.

That on this stage we can actually admit, I know that, I know, I know. I, I play different characters. I played new scripts. I like this script. I will pick up this script and I use for my current set, uh, situ. So this is my new script, but then the final stage is to make this script put into subconsciousness.

So I don’t need to figure out what to do each time to put this into autopilot. So then I can say that I don’t know that I know. So there is no effort to figure out what I know. Because my subconsciousness will be projecting automatically what is needed script for this situation. Nice, Nice. This has been fantastic to have you on, and especially to explore these ideas and even better.

How some of this serves as a role inside of the work that we’re doing, but also in terms of a different mindset of how to continue that process and even how to, as you brought up the example of parts therapy, how to then modify things we already know. Given these themes of improvisational healing, how can people best get in contact with you?

How can they find you? The best way to reach me is through my website, which is www self healing care dot. Self healing hear.com. This will be the best way to, to get in touch me. Outstanding. And we’ll link to that, the show notes [email protected]hypnosis.com. Before we wrap up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there?

You know, we are all experiencing collective trauma, not only what is happening to us, but not knowing what will be happening. And this is the calling of exploring new ways of playing safe, breaking from the scripted perfor scripted behavior, which is now brutally imposed to us by media, by healthcare, by politics.

And nobody is to save us except of us. So this is calling for you to get. Excited about what we’re talking about, explore it because it will open your universe and you’ll be much safer navigating this uncertain times. Thank you Jason. Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, for leaving your reviews online and sharing these conversations as part of your ongoing hypnotic journey as well.

You can check out the show notes [email protected] for all the details of this episode, some of the books that Dr. Rocky recommended there along the way to and plus check. Hypnotic business systems.com. That’s the all access pass to my hypnosis business training library. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel.

There’s no need to have to invent from scratch. Model what works. Make it your own. Get out there and make it rain. Check that out hypnotic business systems.com. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.