Session #332: Craig Mackay on Freedom Hypnosis

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 332. Craig Mackay on Freedom Hypnosis. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Before I get into the details of this week’s outstanding episode, I’ll share with you a bit of an insight, something that I’ve discovered about this podcast.

After seven years of doing it, you start to kind of figure some things out. And briefly here it would be that perhaps I have that person on this show who has a massive if not celebrity name in the profession. And as you might imagine, it gets a lot of downloads. However, the funny thing is those downloads very soon taper off over.

And instead, it’s the conversations that you get to listen to with people that perhaps you haven’t yet heard from. People that you don’t yet know. And once again, the most important word in that sentence is the word yet. Yet it’s those stories. Those are the ones that surprisingly or not surprisingly, now that we’ve kind of figured this out, get the most downloads over.

and here’s why. It’s because we get that massive spike when it’s the big name and the profession. However, when it’s someone’s story that you can directly identify with, when it’s that person who tells the origin story as to the career path that they were on and what they did to break out on their own and what strategies they typically use inside of their sessions and what’s working now to actually bring in those clients, it’s not only that those episodes get some of the most download.

But we can track this. Those get the most shares. And this week’s episode with Craig Mackay is definitely gonna be one of those episodes because I’ve known Craig now I believe, either eight or nine years at this point. So it’s about time we had him on the program. But inside of this, he’s gonna just peel back the curtain and reveal the entire philosophy in terms of how he thinks about the hypnotic process, how it was that he successfully launched.

A thriving hypnotic business in the most busiest city in the entire world. And this part of the story might sound familiar in the midst of everything we’ve been through in the last 16 to 18 months. Kind of looked around and went, You know what? I love what I do. I think I can do it somewhere else now. So you’re gonna hear the story and what kind of went through Craig’s mind as he migrated his business from New York City?

Now to the state of Tennessee. So inside of this episode, we’re gonna talk in massive detail around belief systems, perceptions, and different spiritual models that can often work their way into our hypnotic process. We’ll talk about frameworks, how to work within the frameworks the client brings to the session, and as well the ones that we know in terms of personal change to navigate the client.

Through the experience, there is an incredible conversation around giving your client tools and more so, especially looking at it from the mindset of their future emotional states to begin to create that outcome that they’re moving toward. Rather than do a hypnotic processes. Many people often did it before, shaped around the problems that the client was facing.

As I’ve said for years, let’s work on the client’s solution. In such a way that that old unnecessary problem just doesn’t fit anymore. And one part of this conversation I know you’re gonna be taking notes on is the section, and I’ll leave it a little cryptic for right now, is Craig chatting about the three components.

Of the challenges that are necessary to help a client to overcome those challenges and move into their outcomes. As always, you could head to the show [email protected] to figure out exactly how to best get in contact with Craig Mackay. Take note, it’s not Mackay. It’s spelled that way, but it’s Mackay , uh, from New York City.

Now over in Tennessee, though when you hear the accent, clearly not originally from t. Definitely not Tennessee, perhaps New York City, but I’ll let Craig explain that in this week’s episode. While you’re checking out those show notes too, check out hypnotic business systems.com in terms of growing your own successful hypnosis business.

The main thing is nowadays you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. I’ll call it out. I’m somebody who goes to marketing conventions, attends different workshops, goes through specific trainings online to break through the noise. There’s a lot of unnecessary noise in the marketing world, and I’ll say this politely.

What we do is a little unique. What we do as hypnotists is a little off the beaten path, and to be able to build that business faster and easier with the methods that have actually been proven to work in this industry, not just in my hypnosis business. But to date, there’s now more than 12 or 1300 members of hypnotic business systems worldwide.

We’ve got a thriving online community there to support you as well. Plus more than three dozen specific business action plans to get you up and running. You could check that [email protected] though once again. We have a free preview. Go to jason webinar.com for a free on-demand presentation, six steps to a six figure hypnosis business.

That’s yours right now, on [email protected]. And with that, let’s jump directly into this week’s episode. Here we go. Session number 300. And 32. Craig Mackay on Freedom Hypnosis. Okay, so I’m originally from Scotland, grew up there, moved to the states in my, at the end of my twenties and back in Scotland.

It was actually getting right into the personal stuff here. When I was 11 years old. I came with the passing of a, a near relative of mine, where that actually introduced me to. The concept of spirituality and perhaps there being a soul and everything. And I thought that was very interesting to me. But then I thought to myself, if there is that part of ourself, or we can call it our higher self or the higher functions of the mind, or whatever label we want to use, I don’t think it’s important.

If there is that part, then why are many of us seeming to act completely disconnected from it. So over time, I became interested with this idea that if there is. This, this emotional part of us. And then there is almost this rational part of herself. And then in spirituality, talking about there being this whole other layer that kind of, that was kind of brewing under the surface for a number of years, even as a teenager for me, wondering, well, how does all that fit together?

So then, When I was in my twenties and I was living in Glasgow, in Scotland, I actually went to a hypnotist. Uh, cause I was very curious about that and I had some sessions with him and I thought it was interesting. But little did I know how that would still, the seeds for what would come later on then if I skipped forward another.

Number of years. Then when I moved to the, the US I was Merchant Marine or merchant Navy as they call it in the uk, but basically working as a navigation officer on oil and gas ships going around the world. And when I moved to the US um, it was because of my now wife and because of the licensing, I couldn’t continue with that career.

And also I thought it wouldn’t be a very good idea spending eight months a year apart from her after we just got married. So, While living in New York City, it came down to me thinking about, well what am I gonna do now? So I’d started reading some books about hypnosis, some rather out there ones actually by Dolores Cannon actually.

Yeah. With all people. And I thought this is really interesting if there, cuz a lot of that is about the spiritual component of it. And I thought, well, wow, if there is this. What she called the super conscious mind. And again, I can talk about this stuff later, but then there’s this little logical mind that seems to run around making choices that uh, or emotional mind that doesn’t seem to make choices in alignment with that and what’s the missing piece.

So then from doing more reading, I was learning about this thing called the subconscious, which I didn’t really know of much about before that. It’s a term that would come up. People would talk about it, but didn’t really know what it meant. So then while living in New York, I looked at. Some practitioners had offered hypnosis training, came across Carol Danker at the New York Hypnosis Training Center.

Yeah. And I went and I went and, uh, well I spoke to her on the phone and, uh, she came from the spiritual side too. She’s a Reiki practitioner as well. And I thought, well, okay, so we’re connecting on the spiritual side. So I went there and, uh, Took the NG certification and during that certification, you know, was set up a website, you know, what are you gonna call yourself?

And I thought, Wow, this is, oh wait, this is getting a bit real now. Okay. So after the certification people, I put up some deals and uh, people started calling and I thought, Oh shit, I have to make this work and that, and that’s a good thing, you know, at the time. I remember that being a lot of pressure, but I really appreciate that.

Because with all due respect, I’ve been to numerous conferences where I’d see the same faces that aren’t ready yet. , they’ve got, their certification aren’t ready yet, so I appreciate that. I have a, I have a running list in the back of my mind that I never publish, of people who I know that for the last seven or eight years, Just getting the website ready?

Yes. Getting the website ready cuz it’s the website that converts people, right? Mm oh yeah. . Yes. And they don’t get the change unless your website, uh, is off a certain standard. I mean, that’s, that’s clearly obvious. That’s clearly obvious, right? Yeah. So, so . So then interesting enough, I came in from the spiritual side of it, then actually found out most people aren’t looking for that.

And then I would say I ended up working on what I’ll call the regular stuff that people come for and gradually started to fall in love with. And think, well, you know what, we’re all human beings and this is just where people’s perceptions of themselves in the world have led them to having these experiences or not having experiences.

I became really interested in that and I originally, I was doing it out of my apartment in my one bedroom in the living room in in New York, cuz office prices were very high and after a few years of doing that, that’s actually not too unheard of. in New York City. Right? Well, yeah, it’s interest. And luckily though, a WeWork type building opened up a 10 minute walk from where I lived, and the prices were really, really good.

So I, I was able to open up an office there and it was a 10 minute walk, no subway, no driving, nothing. Oh, nice. Which was really good. And, uh, Yeah, and it’s, it’s interesting, that was all back in 2000. I got certified into 2013, so 2014 I was seeing clients already, and that’s all I’ve done since I lived in the States.

And then last year moved from New York down here to Nashville, and thanks to the Pandemic. It’s interesting, you know, I know a lot of people have suffered during it, but it kicked some things forward for me in a good. Where, you know, I was, I always saw some, some clients online, but then the pandemic completely normalized, you know, telemedicine and, and such like, so when I moved here to Nashville, I thought, well, I can get a bigger apartment for the same money I had in New York, paid in New York and just take one of the bedrooms similar to what you’re doing and just make it an office.

Fantastic. So my commute now is gone. All the way from, uh, 10 minutes down to about 10 seconds. So, which is, which is , which is fantastic. And I, Trees we’ll come back around to this, I’m sure in a bit, but still running a business named after the place you moved from? Mm, yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. Well, I, I gotta find a creative meaning of the nyc.

I’m gonna have to get creative and have a new Yeah, like you have with Virginia Hypnosis . Well, yeah. Cause it, it was clearly named after Virginia Satir. That’s what we meant back course. It was in two nine and, you know, it just, a coincidence happened to also be in for, was very obvious to me. See the anecdote around that was that, The Work Smart, the Work Smart NLP class, uh, which has now morphed into a different program called Business Influence.

Uh, but that was only called Work Smart nlp because I could not get any placement on the web with Virginia nlp because you type in those words and she pops up, Uh, . But I wanna go back to something you brought up earlier there. There’s a lot to unpack there. There’s a phrase that I heard, uh, inside of what you said, which was around this idea of kind of beginning with that spirituality aspect of it, that at the end of the day, tell me if this kind of aligns with something that you said there, that people may have different belief systems, different models of the world.

But even inside of those different models, it’s the same core elements that are gonna repeat from one to the other. Absolutely true. And even down to like, say, law of attraction, you could explain that from a spiritual side, or you could just explain it from the idea that, you know, you’re, you could call it your particular activating system gets tuned to those things that you believe in and focus on.

So you could say in terms of how the brain works, I think you can explain what we’re talking about here. Or if you want to put it through a spiritual frame. I actually think it doesn’t. Yeah, cause I heard, I heard someone say something. They used some of the same markers in time, but they presented it a different way before, which was that I learned from someone like Dolores Cannon.

But then I realized I didn’t wanna work that way anymore. So now I don’t use those techniques. Right. I’ve known you for a bunch of years and I kind of see you already as someone who would go, I can still use these methods. They just need a little bit of adapt. Absolutely. So what are, what are some of those adjustments?

What are some of those little modifications that you’ve done? Let’s say, let’s use the word carefully here to universalize it so it’s not implanting a belief system. That was not the reason they came to you. Well, and that’s, I find that starting with the intake, I would, one of the questions I, I ask people is, are, are they a spiritual person?

Yeah. And um, and it’s just really then about the framing of it because it’s really just looking at it and saying that we’re either explaining it, in my opinion, I know this kind of binary thinking to put it this way, but we’re really putting it from that idea that it’s the brain that’s making things. Or it’s something outside of herself that’s making things happen and it’s just really just shifting the focal point in that way.

So it can be about shifting the perception to notice different things. That then allows a different set of, uh, us to notice different things, then to feel different ways, act different ways, and create different things. Or it can be about this idea then that something outside of herself is making it that way and then almost then bringing it in.

Well, what would that want for you? It’s, it’s kind of strange to answer that question without there being an individual where I’m, I’m working through it, but it’s really just looking at that, really their frame of the world and working through that. Yeah. And I, that’s a, that can be an important question.

I’ve gone back and forth with that one myself over the years of either having it or not having it. Let me ask you though, someone sees it on your forms. Then they ask, Why do you ask that? How? How would you respond to, Have you ever had that question? I have had that question. What I would say is that certainly with certain religions that people follow, it might actually.

There might be belief systems within that that might have to change how I would work on things. Yeah. So generally though, that’s really not the case, but when people ask why, I know that’s just so I can say that I’m not saying anything that that contradicts or would cause offense within their belief systems.

Not that that’s ever my goal. But if we don’t know what those are, it’s hard to avoid causing an issue with them , right? So sometimes people might say something that, uh, it’s basically just to see, well actually I really shouldn’t share this, but cer when people off will write their religion in there, sometimes it can give me a bit of an indication as to when I look at the other things on their form where the connections might lie.

Well, I, Everything is an asset. Yes. And I think it’s important for people to often realize that just because, and we, we, this is an easy statement to make as a blank blanket statement. And I don’t think this is a problem in the industry in any way, but the fact that your belief systems don’t have to be the exact same of the other individual.

It’s our, it’s often our job client-centered hypnosis Absolutely. To modify to them. And you know, there’s a longer story around this that I’m sure have told at least once or twice, On this program in seven years time now, um, the person who wrote on my form that she was quitting smoking because her husband asked her to, There we are.

Yes. Right? Which everyone has a gut reaction to that to go, No, it needs to be your reason. Yet, as she very clearly expressed in my faith, I need to honor and respect his wishes. , um, to which I did have to ask the follow up. Does he know you’re here, that you’re using hypnosis? And she sits upright and just goes, He need not concern himself with how I’ve quit.

All that matters is I’m quitting today and I am ready for this. . It was like, All right. Um, so seeing people as they are and modifying to their belief systems, um, what, what kind of strategies are you using, if any, so that, um, we’re not kind of overstepping a belief system or. It’s not that I’m saying in plant, but let’s say making a judgment, calling something by the wrong name.

How are you, let’s say, keeping it vague if appropriate. So that they’re internalizing what’s important to them? Well, in my opinion around that, that’s where in be before the actual hypnosis . Before the formal, Yes. Air quotes here, hypnosis begins. That’s where I’m really, I air quotes from all the way here.

Nicely done. Yes. That’s good. is, I’m having a conversation before that part of the session just to really, And that’s where. Almost experimenting with some of the language to see how it’s landing. Mm-hmm. , because then I’d never want the situation where actually inside of the, again, air quotes, formal hypnosis, that I’m gonna say something that’s going to land the wrong way.

Yeah. So that’s where I wanna really make sure, what are we working on here? What is your current perspective on it? Uh, how would you like to be looking at it? What would be different? What is the outcome? What would you have to let go? All of those questions similar to what’s already on their strategy session form, but I wanna make sure that I’m firing those things before we actually do the hypnosis, so then I’m able to see that we’re clear about.

Where things are now clear about where we want them to be and clear about what’s in the way and clear about what those stepping stones are. So for the most part, I mean, there’s probably one, or there’s probably a couple of exceptions at that point. They already know. We’re really both clear on where we’re going with this, what the, the, the current perception is, how we’d like to be perceiving it, what the outcome is.

So then that language isn’t gonna be a shock. Right inside of the session that that is an important point, that we have a common language. The same way that if someone’s coming in from this one faith, I know here are some of the bits and pieces that I can use inside of that. The same as if it’s a client who, you know, I always talk about the ace in the whole.

Um, I’m, this is the work smart side of things. It’s not about being lazy in the words of an s Simpson. It’s about being efficient. Um, when I, you come in and you mention that, here’s the moment where you quit drinking 28 years ago. In that singular moment, you knew the world was different now for you and you were done with it.

Yeah, we’re gonna bring you there, uh, and use that to help you to quit smoking or cut out the procrastination or whatever the issue would be. So if it’s from this faith or that faith, if they’ve gone through alcoholic Alcoholics Anonymous, um, landmark form, um, s mind, you know, any of these things, these are now assets which we may not use with everybody.

Do you use the word super C. No, I mean, well, with, with certain clients, yeah, that’s, But, but to be, to be clear, the vast majority of clients that come in, none of this spiritual stuff really gets discussed. I really look at it from this idea that some of the, the central themes that I work from is this idea that reality’s actually put together in this little place in our brain.

Where the, the raw data comes in, gets the old NLP model, gets run through all of these different component filters and then our brain says, This is how it is. Yeah. And then my idea is about saying, what if freedom isn’t actually that external thing, although it is a factor, But what if it’s in saying that within shifting your perception, And your perspective and your focus, if you shift those things, what if you’re actually able to create more freedom and more empowerment from where you are?

Even if the external stuff to start with stays exactly the same so that the idea that I work with from that is about saying that the power is in the perception primarily. because that is what’s informing what we will do or not do to actually change those things externally or in our environment. So that’s one of the key places that I operate from and say, that’s the part that I can work with.

But the other stuff outside, not so much. Yeah. I love, love, love that way of thinking. That when we can put sort of the thematic score on top of it, the story externally. That this is the model of the world that we’re now gonna take, the experiences you’ve been going through, and as we put them through this filter, let’s see what happens.

Uh, which, uh, freedom. Hey Craig, what’d you name the business? . Oh yeah. Freedom Hypnosis. Yeah. Well look at that. Look at that. It’s not interesting. I know, right? With with, with that in mind, actually, that was, that was when I was, uh, thinking of names. I thought, what are people really want and freedom? And I was like, Well, then those questions, freedom from what?

And go well, from whatever it might be, and go, Well, how do they get that? And go, Well, primarily. That is the mental component. Now, some people listening to this might say, But you’re telling me I can feel free even though those other things are happening in my life, and go, Well, yes. So looking at it and thinking that for so long, I think that it’s kind of like when you listen to the language of people, like if I say, Jason, you’re making me this way, and I go, Well, can, let’s look at the science of how are you actually making me that way?

Like what kind of technology are we talking about? You know, how are you actually making me that way? Like, show me how and people go, Uh, when I might go, Well, you just are. And go, Okay, so I’ve given you this amazing power and then I’ve made to you in my mind, use that amazing power that I gave you and I’ve ended up with this result.

And that’s. That’s quite funny when you think about it, but that would be crazy, right? That would be crazy. Hmm. So yes, maybe freedom does come from within and maybe perception is the key part. Even if people are in difficult situations in their life. I think it is that, and that’s probably one of the reasons why you’re doing this too, that shifting of perception can open up new things to be aware of and new actions, new avenues to explore that can actually change those outside things.

And actually that follows onto this idea that one thing that actually used to irritate me with, uh, with some of, you know, people with law of attraction and things, almost this idea that if I just focus on this, Then, then everything will change and go, Well, yeah, you might notice action steps you could take as you bring yourself into alignment with that thing.

But those actions are still needed. There’s not a replacement. But also about the idea about a lot of activity without actually having a focus on, on what the outcome should be. That’s also useless in my opinion. So like I have always thought like, what is that midpoint where your mindset is in alignment?

And I’ll talk a bit more about this in a moment, but the idea. With hypnosis. What I really think the magic is, is that you can try on and road test experiences in a way that where you have control over it in a way that the world seldom to never actually allows you to have for real. I know that’s a lot to unpack in that statement, but almost like looking at it and saying, within therapy someone might do systematic desensitization, for instance.

Right. So the interesting in hypnosis is you could say to somebody, Okay, you know, the old movie theater example, we can play with the sub modalities. We can change all kinds of things, and we have that level of control so that we’re actually able to try on an experience. Before we actually get there in the world.

And by the way, outside of the office, people are doing that all the time. If I haven’t met somebody that comes for anxiety help, who isn’t already doing that, but it’s just not for with a positive outcome. Mm-hmm. . So I think the magic of hypnosis is we can actually come out of where we are, try another experience, establish safety, survival, familiarity, and even comfort around it before we even get there.

So that moment where, To get even deeper on this, like I think about this idea that everything ever created by human beings began first in the mind, where at some, and as children, we seem to know this, you know, we’d imagine freely, we’d imagine freely without conditions is the the expression I would use.

But at some point we kind of think, No, I’ll, I’ll believe it when I see it externally. Yeah. But if everyone believed that nothing would ever get made, And even down to like say weight loss, if we see ourself, you know, say if somebody uses and say it’s their self taught, not mine. Say if somebody says, Oh, I’m fat, and go, So if the self image is that this is who I am, which is an identity statement, this is how I see myself, therefore this is what I do, this is how I behave, this is how I feel, then it’s almost like saying, Well, there’s no goal setting in that, that really is gonna shift anything because everything is actually in alignment.

With how you see it and believe it to be right now. So it’s almost about setting that new, like in the GPS of the mind setting that new reference point about, well what would it be like to be this person feeling this way, moving this way, having this experience, and also kind of like reverse engineering it.

How would that person think? How would they feel? What would be different? What would be opening up for them? Yeah. And spending more time in that level of consciousness or in in that perspective or that. And saying rather than where they are now. So it’s almost like this going there first mention. Yeah, you mentioned as a tool, sub modalities, the idea that, um, and, and this was part of a session I did yesterday of everything was going great.

There was just this one little tiny bit and this was a bit of influence before the session to go, Well there’s three parts of this issue, thoughts, feelings, and actions. Classic psychodynamics, thoughts, feelings, and actions. So that’s a tripod. And if all we do is go in today and change the feeling, the tripod now only has two of those previous legs to stand on.

What’s gonna happen? They go, It’s gonna fall down and not work anymore. I’m like, Thank you. Yes. Make my job easier. Uh, let me read, I had to pull this up, uh, from James Hazel. R Hypnosis is the art of getting real results from imaginary or suggested. Mm. Right. Yeah. And a funny part of that is how, actually, even outside of the, well, like all of the things we’re talking about here, Jason, outside of a hypnosis office, that’s already happening.

It’s just the question is, is it working for you or against you, Right. ? Yeah. My, you’ve heard my phrasing around, uh, here’s how you’re already doing this. I’m gonna show you how to do it on purpose and to your benefit. And I think that is so important because before we start, actually. Officially recording here.

We were having that conversation right about this idea that there can be this perception about the work that we do and hypnosis being this really strange alien experience that’s never happened in any way to anyone outside of the office. And I think it can be really interesting to highlight those ways in which it is already happening every day and beyond the highway hypnosis example.

Mm-hmm. how in many ways, and although that’s valid to, but in how many areas of life it’s already happening. Like people often do have this, this, this. About themself or life or the world. And it’s almost then with that filters off the mind. Our mind is the deletion, distortion, generalization, right? Our mind is really trying very hard to continually prove that to be true.

And I used to struggle with that thinking, No, but this is true to me. And it then realizing, yes, but it’s almost like we’re always experiencing the postproduction version of the objective. I guess that’d be the subjective, really. But yes, so the post production version of it, but then the idea and how difficult it can be to accept, but this is how it is.

And how difficult it can be to accept yes because of those other things, then yes, this is how it is. But if we shift these other things, our perspective, for instance, if we shift our our mind, then suddenly we’re no longer right about that old thing anymore. And wouldn’t that be nice? We can be regret about something else.

And to go back to the idea of the law of attraction idea, wouldn’t it be nice that our mind is trying to prove something else to be true? Wouldn’t that be nice? Rather than confirming the same old. Because either way it’s gonna happen. You can’t turn it off. It’s like, Oh, I don’t believe in that particular activating system stuff go great.

Well still happening . That’s fantastic. You don’t believe That’s amazing. I gotta go back to, I gotta go back to James Hayk again. It’s okay if you don’t believe it believes in you. . That’s funny. That’s funny. But then sometimes heard guest apparently in this speaks episode, So, So taking all of these themes and you know, I, I found.

As we establish, even if it may be an internal philosophy, you know, even if it is that internal dialogue, I think you’ve heard one of mine before, that the, and this uses some possibly negatively charged words, but used in a very positive intent. Um, I’m not gonna say broken, let’s just say not working.

There’s a person who’s reaching out to us. because there’s something in their life that’s not working the way that it ought to. Therefore, we help to change that reality, and by way of hypnotic phenomenon and other techniques, we’re helping to further break that false perception of reality, which creates the opening, where now we can help them put in what they want and use their own words to do it.

So to have these sort of thematic themes and almost this thesis statement to the work that we do, which this is great. This is helpful. But let’s get down to business here. So you’re up and running, you find that transition moving from working in your own, you know, apartment in New York City, which I will leave out who it was.

Uh, but there’s an amazing training I attended. They were eight of us and we were around the dinner table, uh, . So again, cost of living New York City. Northern Virginia, Orlando, Nashville. Nice. Uh, so what were you doing to bring those people in? What was, what’s working to, to get that traffic and bring those people into your.

the primary way that people have family. Well, in the beginning it was running, it was running deals, so it was something called Amazon Local back in the day, which, yeah, yeah, right. I used to do that and I remember, I’ll never forget, three sessions for 99 is the deal they would accept and they took, uh, 40% of it.

Mm-hmm. . So I got $60 for three sessions. Yeah. But it was good experience. And uh, then I ran some deals on group Groupon for a year or two, then stopped that. But then what really most of the traffic, once I. Here’s what I would really say is about doing good work and then getting good reviews from people is really what changed it.

So it’s about, people would find me on Yelp. Um, a lot of people would search on there for services, Yelp, and then my Google reviews. Those are the primary ways that people would find me. I did do Yelp, you know, the Yelp advertising for a while. I didn’t think it made much difference. So it’s mostly Yelp and Google and also, um, Over time here and there, I’ve had bursts of working on my YouTube channel and I do actually get people finding my, my YouTube videos and coming to me through that.

But that’s, that’s much less often than, than the Google and the ALP situation. So that’s primarily where I have done some Google, uh, paper click. I have done some of that, but most of it’s the Yelp, Google, uh, search. Yeah. So then as you’re doing that, are you targeting anything specifically or letting them kind of find you more generally?

More generally? Um, there was a company that, that I worked with that set a low budget each month for pay per click. And they basically, it’s, it’s basically just pointing them to a couple of the services, a few of the services that offer, but it’s nothing overly specific. Yeah. Um, and then they open the Googles mostly at that point, people are actually looking for, Hypnosis at that point.

So they’re at a different level of the process where they Yeah, I was about to ask that exact question. That is it going after people? Cuz this is clearly the world that I chose to live in by putting the word hypnosis on nearly every project. Yeah. Um, the subtext behind some of what I’ve done over the years is that I’m looking for this people who have already decided they want to do hypnosis and now are doing their research to find who’s the best fit for them.

Uh, so that was, that was targeting people who were already looking for. Yes. And in the future though, what I’m. Always playing with the idea in my mind now about just going after the, the solution. Like say Dan Candel, the anxiety relief guy. Hey, what do you do? Well, the name kind of suggests it , but so looking at thinking, being outcome based with that, because really the more I look at it, hypnosis is a tool.

Yes. So it’s almost like, I’ve often thought about this, that if a plumber came, you wouldn’t say, Well open your tool bag and like, put everything out and you can use this and you can use this, but that wrench, I don’t like to look at that wrench. You’re not allowed to use that wrench. It’d be more about saying, Well, this is kind of weird, like, you have this leak.

Do you want the leak fixed? Or do we want to just have a conversation about, you know, the tools and like what, you know, which one is it? And while I wanna have a conversation about tools go, well then I’ll send somebody else, I’ll be, you know, expect a phone call soon. But I think it’s a, it’s an interesting thing about.

I think most people are looking for an outcome, right? They’re looking for, they’re looking for a certain problem to be solved, and I really, I keep hearing this over and over again. I, for me, I’m looking at and thinking, becoming a specialist and solving a certain problem. For people that really want that problem solved.

I think it, it almost, I won’t say completely, but I think it almost takes out that conversation about, you know, the attachment to the tools. Yeah. So, so yes, I’ve really, Hypnosis has been in everything that I’ve, that I’ve put out there, but I’m looking to move more towards being more of a specialist and being outcome based on that.

Well, I’ll tell you the, the beauty of that becomes is that, and this is the fear that many people have, that if I do specialize, they won’t come to me for the other things. And, you know, There’s a video that my clients watch that presents as really either being stopped smoking or business confidence, whether it’s fear of failure, fear of success, imposter syndrome, fear of public speaking, and I just kind of put them all in one category.

And here’s someone who did watch that full presentation the other day and signed up for everything, and come to find out she’s coming in for. A fear that I’d seen many times over the years. Uh, I, I teach onboarding as in here’s when someone schedules, and even though they’re already scheduled, Pump up the expectation further.

You’ve got the assets for this to send. Here’s a testimonial around that. Here’s an article about this. Looking forward to seeing you on Monday, just to kind of bump up that expectation even further. And again, I’m the guy working with entrepreneurs for personal issues around their business, and yet she saw through that to go, Yeah, but I wanna work with you for this issue.

And I could have rightfully said, I don’t do. As I did with someone else this past week, uh, and referred elsewhere. Uh, and it’s not for a lack of confidence. It’s instead that the deeper we get into what we do, we have that right to choose those things that we’re the best with, uh, Richard non guards line is that I’m only gonna work with the things I know I can get a hundred percent success with, um, my scope of practice conversation when in doubt don’t

Well, I think there’s an interesting. Angle to that though, that quite often in my experience, it’s been the case that when you really ask certain questions about what the presenting, you know, challenge is or the presenting goal, it’s really not about that. Yeah, so I think it’s an interesting thing. Then actually, in fact, I remember somebody said once, take 99% of what the client says consciously and just ignore it.

And I remember thinking, Wow, that’s quite strong. But I understand the point. The point being is that people are having this, the effect experience of something else. And sometimes when you peel back the layers, that thing that they said they came for is actually about something else. Yeah. And especially sometimes where there may be a component of it, like, you know, weight loss or it could be smoking, but when you peel back some layers, you’re like, wait, there’s this whole other.

Like saying, Well, there’s this other kind of elephant in the room that’s coming up when we ask certain questions, are we gonna go there or are we gonna stick with where we started? Because sometimes in my experience, sticking with where we started can block the result because it’s really not about that.

It can be about something else. Yeah, I was about to say that again. You and I’ve been around each other quite a bit over the years, and I’ve heard you say something that I’ve said as well. Here are people, That we’ve seen a couple of dozen times and it’s not the game of all right, one of these days it might stick, come on back.

It’s that they saw the value in the process. The same as a person in the gym finds the specific exercise that they respond the best to, right? And they go, This is what I’m doing now. And just because I know you’d get my anecdote, the free personal training session at the new. I just said, it’s like I’ve hired trainers to watch me and correct my form.

I don’t wanna be run through a workout. And the trainer was amazing to go. Okay, so that’s not what I do. But we have 45 minutes. You wanna do something ? My example would be, I see recently you’ve posted like some videos about doing the deadlift. Yeah. Here’s my main point of frustration with that. I watched some of those videos and my body didn’t change.

Jason, what’s up with that? ? I didn’t, You lifted the weight and I didn’t get the result. Like, what’s up with that? There’s something wrong with that . That’s not right. But I mean, back to this, Back to this example. Yeah, it’s cuz you didn’t want it, Craig, and you know that. Oh no. But this example though of people who you’ve worked with that now it’s become a bit of an ongoing, Yes, there’s hypnosis, but also a bit of a coaching relationship to them
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I, I always, in the back of my head, I’ve got Ron Eslinger, who I think I heard say this in like 2011. And it may have been an offhand remark around, Why do you book four sessions? And as he put it, one of the reasons was, well, by the third session you might actually be working on the thing they should have come to you in the first place for, And, and again, we will have those people that it’s, it’s not, I want to get paid for this many.

It’s instead they found something that was effective for them, you know, without too many personal details. What are some of those examples of people who kind of fit into that category for you? Well, for instance, well, Ooh. Well, for instance, well here, here’s a, here’s a, here’s a deep one, then let’s go into this one.

So, so I remember several years ago now I was, uh, a client came into for smoking cessation and we did the work in the first session and then, um, came back in, in the second session, Nothing had changed and I thought, Wow, that’s interesting cause the end of the first session, you know, when we tested everything as best we can, things were fine.

And then so, . I remember him saying, Well, you know, you, I don’t think you can make me change. And I said, Oh, wait, Okay, so we’ve got an issue here then that’s, that’s quite right. That’s quite right. And I said, Well, you know, and I was feeling this resistance, so I thought, let me just bat it back into his court and said, Well, so what if you don’t quit?

And he said, Well, well then, you know, I could die. And I go, Well, okay. And, and what’s the problem with that thinking? That’s a fairly obvious question. And he says, Well, that doesn’t really. And I was like, Oh, you see? Okay then. So it’s good to know. So actually there’s no real perceived consequence to this.

Good to know that. So then it became this whole other thing about, well now we have to have a whole different conversation that will likely involve other professionals. But looking at it and saying that there’s an example of here, the, that it’s almost like there’s a feeling and it gets funneled into this is the thing that will change everything.

And it’s prob might be the wrong way around. It’s about saying maybe that’s an effect not a cause. The. The smoking is causing that other thing. The smoking seems to be an offshoot of that other thing. Another example would be, for instance, uh, within relationships. Here’s another one. So it might be weight loss.

If someone’s had, um, you know, a history of, you know, uh, gotta be careful with the language, you use unpleasant relationship experiences or had a, a negative experiences in their childhood, their self image might be, They might have had quite a bit of trauma in their life. So in that situation, when you get into the weight loss, the weight loss might be come for or protection.

So it’s almost about, no, can’t you just make me change what I’m, what I’m eating and go, well, yes, but there’s there. Th there’s more to it. Almost. Yeah. It would be almost be a disservice to give some, you know, some standard direct suggestions about, you know, uh, eating less and feeling more full and having more energy.

It’s almost like that’s not striking the nerve. It’s almost like some going into the dentist and the dentist working on the wrong tooth. It’s like, what are we doing here? So the examples can be there about often when asking about, when’s the first time you feel you, you felt this, and then asking. I often find this is probably the answer that’s best to give here.

I find that before I spend a lot of time talking to the clients and asking questions a lot of time before I do any hypnosis. Yeah. And also another thing that I found really important, cause I think it’s relevant to put it in here, is to say, I look at it from two angles. I want to give the clients tools that will change their emotional state when they need it, when I’m not around.

Mm-hmm. , why I call that? Almost like saying these are skills that when learned go with you for whatever comes. beyond why you came here and then doing the, the hypnosis piece of it. Cuz that’s almost like in the beginning, giving them the, the, the tools to work themselves through other things that might come up that might be nothing to do with while they’re in the office to give them that sense of control.

And I’ve found over time, right from the beginning, I want to be placing the, that, that. Responsibility to learn and to take control of the situation on the client. So I start that way. But anyway, back to your question. Those are a couple of examples that come up or somebody actually about, um, here’s another one, and this steers it in a different direction here.

Somebody might come in and as a procrastinator and, uh, or actually no motivation’s a simpler one. Let’s talk about that. All. They’re connected and saying, Well, they wanna be motivated for something. And sometimes when I really drill down to get clarity, the clarity’s not there. So I wanna be motivated for that thing I’m not clear about and go, Well that’s obviously, that’s tough.

How, Why would you be, Or not being clear about the benefit? Or actually, another example would be the person not even having the skillset. , which is something I’ll talk about in a moment. Yeah. To even get the result. I mean, John Asaf, I love his material. Uh, Neuro Jim, it’s worth checking out that he talks about three components, and this kind of blew my mind that for every one of the challenges, there’s three components.

One of them is mindset, one of them is skill set, and then the third one is action set. And the idea being is you need all three. So it’s almost like if somebody comes in for weight loss, You say, Okay, so what would the, the eating plan be? And I don’t know. And go, Well, so then is that something you want me to provide?

Or is there someone we can, We’ve talked about that and then saying, Okay, then do we, If we know the foods, so we know the quantities, do we know the timings? And also if it’s exercise, you know, how often. Do you know what, what intensity do you know? Do you know any of that stuff? So I’ve sometimes signed, The challenge can be if somebody’s coming in for a result that they’re, they actually don’t have clarity or a plan around.

Then I kind of think the hypnosis part is, is set up for failure, because if the other pieces aren’t there, it kind of puts us in a place where even if we’re feeling good about it, we don’t know what we. This is the, Yeah, this is the wrong metaphor. I know, but we can have all the right darts, but we still have to make the bar dart, board sticky

And I know that’s not how dart boards work, but clearly that demonstrates my skill at darts. That that’s, that’s the biggest breakthrough that I’d say I’ve had in the last five or six years. Of putting so much of action and making sure that’s absolutely clear inside of the dialogues with the client that you know, and, and this is the phrase that someone used a couple of years ago, and now we’re all saying it.

Um, it’s not just about hypnotizing you to create a change, It’s now letting your actions become hypnotic so that now as you’re doing this, we’re attaching the hypnotic work to that action so that then it creates, That benefit of the cause and effect relationship. That’s just how the mind works. That we need you in motion doing something differently.

There’s no change. Without change. We need you in motion doing something differently. And this is not just our weight loss. Quit biting nails, stop smoking, stop chasing cars, uh, habitual things, . It’s, it’s even that willingness to go do something. D. Yes, to borrow the diagnosis from Michael Elner fund deficiency disorder.

I want you to go out and do something for yourself today or tomorrow. Go do something differently. That’s gonna change that pathway of the mind, and that’s what we’re attaching all of this work to. I love that. And actually, I think that that is so far of everything that’s been said on this podcast, that’s the biggest point I think what you’ve just said there, because I think without that, what are we attaching to an.

Yeah. So I think that, And over the years, that’s something where I’ll, I’ll admit it, that hasn’t been as clear as maybe I would’ve liked it to have been until not that long ago. Because it’s almost like I would look at it and think, well, I’m at a different part of the process, right? But then realizing, no, no, no, no, no.

The whole thing is connected. And um, so I think what you’ve said there is supremely important. And actually, I would say if I could go back in time, I would just really be supremely. Almost obnoxiously specific about, okay, what are the, the action steps after this? What does that specifically look like? And then in the hypnosis, running those, running those loops about yes, the cause and effect, so that, that is not ambiguous at all.

And I think that really success really depends upon that. Otherwise, like to go back to the example of mindset, skills, action set. All the mindset in the world won’t do anything without the skill set or the action set won’t do anything without. But also if we don’t even, someone might, and this is another category, people might have the mindset and the skills, but it’s not actually put into a schedule of specific actions.

And again, that’s also an issue. So this is kind of to go back to what you were saying bef asking about before around the coaching, I kind of look at it and think that value. Can be delivered across all three, but primarily two for us because you’ve got the mindset part of it, but there’s also a skillset that comes with the mindset, but also a skillset that comes with whatever the client is looking to work on.

There’s also a skillset there, and it’s about looking at it and saying that realizing really that that competency is needed across the board for the result to happen. Because again, like you know, all of the skills, all of the actions, without the mindset not gonna work. But also again, Mindset. Without the skills, What are we doing?

Then we’re leaving the office feeling fantastic, but totally unsure of what we’re gonna do. , I got a, I got a yes. And, uh, skills and the willingness to improve over time. Yes. Well, this, Oh, that, that’s another key point. So the, I. Part of the reason why I think the coaching, I, I, I’m leaning more into the coaching model now, is to be there for the way points along the journey.

Mm-hmm. , because it’s almost like sometimes when the rubber meets the road, they find that there’s different things come up. And it can be useful, I think, to, to maintain contact for that. So the more that I look at it, the more I look at it and think that the coaching element is important because it can, and particularly over the longer period of time, because it allows fine tuning as things go, go.

And I think that, uh, different challenges can arise for people. So I, I lean more towards the coaching model Now, although coaching the label is not quite as sexy, but also then you’re not dealing with the preconceptions about hypnosis as hypnosis. And actually, I know we said this before we officially started recording, but what I often find is hypnosis is perceived as replacement for skillset action set, not an accompaniment.

That the Well, there’s that, that’s an expectation as opposed to that is what it is. There’s an expectation that, that may be it. But we were chatting about, uh, better educational strategies, uh, yes. To prevent that . I, I gotta bring it back to freedom though, uh, which you’ve pulled off. One of the things that clearly I am passionate about, uh, moving a business while it’s still.

Oh,

Yes. Yes. So let, let’s talk about that. What are, what are some of the things that you did in place? Because from one of the times we last connected, you said, you know, I’m still seeing some of the same people just in a different location, the same as I’ve been transparent as to I’m somewhere else. Now it’s in the signature of the email as well.

Uh, talk to us about that journey of, uh, making a major life change in the midst of still working with people. Well, not having to find an office made it easier. Mm-hmm. . But, but I did set up a Nashville site and actually got no traffic to it. And I haven’t seen, I think I’ve seen one person down here.

There’s a, there’s a truth bomb. Um, everything is still coming through my New York site, which in the beginning I felt difficult. I felt a little guilty about. Then I was like, you know what? It’s, it’s an ongoing business and everyone’s working online anyway. It’s all still coming through there, really. And, um, I have toyed with the idea about doing some paid advertising down here, but honestly, since my, I’m.

Pretty well established in New York. I thought, Well, and everything’s on online anyway. I’ve kept everything pretty much as it is, although I do tell my clients that, that I’m down here now. It’s, it’s strangely enough, it’s uh, it’s almost business as usual, except I’m physically not there. But the clients are still coming from there.

Yeah. And the most difficult part is remembering the hour time difference when scheduling people . Oh, yeah, Yeah. I stayed, I stayed in the same time. So Yes, you did. Yes you did. So it’s that fun conversation of six 30 your time. Six 30. Yes, yes. But no, luckily my system takes care of that. Yeah. But really, it, it’s been an interesting thing about, about this with, with the global nature of, uh, things being more connected than have ever been before.

And especially with, you know, again, the pandemic making, you know, working online in this way more and more normal than it was before. Not that it was particularly strange before, but it’s even more common now that I would say. Not too much as adjusted , although I’m, I’m looking at it now and thinking, Well, the next step would be to say, although this is a whole different conversation about saying, Well, maybe I don’t need to target New York anymore.

Maybe we target national for something specific. But that is a whole different conversation. But looking at it now about saying the boundaries really don’t have, probably never mattered less. Yeah, so it’s, it’s almost that, that fearful thing about knowing that, but going, Oh, but I’m stepping away from what I’ve known.

But then business wise, I haven’t really well, I, I think inside of it is the fact that, again, when we pick that point of focus, when we decide this is the thing that I’m going to do and follow through on it, my, my phrase of all things business last, you know, even the last two or three years has been that revelation that all this stuff works.

You just have to actually do it. Kind of back to the dialogue around, uh, seven years later, still working on that website. Um, the conversations inside of the Facebook group. Sometimes with hypnotic business systems, you know, should I use Kajabi or should I use Teachable? And my official answer is, um, migrating is a pain in the ass, but if you ever have to do it, hire an outsourcer.

And it’s done in one. Pick one and just go with it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, in, I’ve, I’ve moved video platforms for courses and email systems and, you know, the same as we’re kind of settled now here in Orlando, and of course at the time of this recording now they come tomorrow and rip up the carpets and replace them.

And then once we’re settled after that, then all of our stuff comes in the moving truck from Springfield. Uh, in words of the meme I saw online being an adult means saying, After this project, everything will but be much easier over and over until you die. Well, things are always in motion, right? That, that’s, that’s such an interesting example.

It’s that idea. It’s, it’s kind of that. That binary thinking, right? That things are in process now, but one day they’ll just be like done. Yeah, and it’s like, so it’s a zero or one, but it’s like actually ever, like you’re saying, everything’s actually the gray. It’s about saying it never actually. Well, as soon as you get done with something, it’s almost like hypnosis.

When I got started with it, there’s certain things I would like working on. Then after a while, your feelings change or, or even like your, your process that use with people you, for a while you might think, Oh yes, this is, this is really the way I think it, that’s best to do it. Then after a while, that voice in the back of your.

Yes, but what if there’s an even better way? Or you attend a, you attend a training and you’re like, Oh shit. That’s thing that Jason’s just said, that’s just changed everything now. Oh. And we have to kind of go back and it’s that constant growth idea and accepting that, like accepting that. Yeah. It’s constant growth and whatever we accomplish, something part of our mind is, uh, then looking at, well, okay, how can we develop this further?

How can we go further? And, but doing that in a balanced way, not having that be everything. Yeah. But having that also be. That we keep growing. Cuz sometimes honestly, and I’ll say this here on this, on this podcast, I think doing the same after a while of doing things the same way, become profoundly bored and that will show up in the client work.

So I think it’s so important to be absolutely true, to be changing how we, how we do things. And for me that was also changing location cuz I love here that I can walk outside and there’s, there’s trees and everything like that. And it wasn’t like that in New York, funnily enough. But, uh, I like the, uh, the environment.

Um, shifts, and I do like that with, with the online nature of things, that you can basically go anywhere with a good internet connection and still get the work done. And I think that that is a wonderful blessing. Just a quick plug here, um, jason lynette.com/ 38. It was actually the most recent, uh, hypnotic Language hacks episode all about overcoming conflict.

It was just the recording that had to be done about, Let me just get on here and in a teaching mechanism, complain about everything that’s been going badly with this move. The contractors that took five weeks rather than two weeks. But then again, I created that problem so relaxed. The internet didn’t work one for like three days, cuz I’m like, that cable looks like it’s broken and at and t’s like, no, it’s not.

Then they send the tech out, they go that cable’s broken sometimes. Sometimes things are what they appear to be. Right? Yeah. And again, if worst case, you know, like you mentioned the WeWork kind of space, I found the one like that in downtown Orlando, the eight buildings that are downtown Orlando. Cuz it’s not the resort area where I am.

Uh, but it, it’s that embracing that we create these problems on purpose. And I can, we can use the word problem in a very, very positive way. Uh, Craig, I’ve loved every bit of this in terms of that sort of overriding philosophy that bring people through this journey. And it’s where, just like with our clients, you know, if you can’t express what you want, it’s a hard way.

It’s a hard path to get there. Mm-hmm. . And if we have that through line as to what the journey is, this is why I’m always asking. What’s that process that someone’s going through? And, uh, without any disrespect, there are some who go, Well, I use this induction. I typically use this technique. And that’s a valid answer too.

because this is an audience that knows those, but I, I’m a sucker from when we’ve got that through line, because we know how we’re working, why we’re working, we can find new strategies and like we started this chat, see the different ways to, you know, modify it for our style for that individual client and just be more adaptable in flexible.

How can people best get in contact with. The best way would be through my website, uh, Freedom Hypnosis nyc. That’s all one word, Freedom hypnosis nyc.com. And uh, they can email me my first name, Craig, c r a i g, cuz my accent sometimes makes it sound different. So Craig, freedom hypnosis nyc.com. That’s my email.

Those would be the best places to find me. Excellent. And we’ll put everything in the show notes [email protected]. Uh, Craig, before we wrap it up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there? Yes, if I have a minute. More so in alignment with what you said about their, the, uh, the straight line.

Well, you call it straight line transformation. I think one of the things that I think is, is most interesting about this is about within hypnosis, placing someone into the result with, and I have a few things in mind when I’m doing that. Number one, priorities of the brain safety and survival. Can I say, can I survive that outcome?

And also to really use hypnosis to create those new neural pathways in the mind. And looking at the mind, almost like Google, it’ll answer any question to the best of its ability virtually, instantly. So asking those questions that really associate into that result, what would you be seeing through your eyes?

What would you be hearing through your ears? What would you be feeling through your body? What would let you know that things had changed? Now again, because in order to answer that question, the mind has to go. And create that neural pathway, which I think is tremendous, um, in a way that it will, fundly will not if we just talk about what we don’t want.

Interesting. That isn’t it. So number one about getting into, are you able to safely be there in that result within the, the experience here Also, are we able to minimize any pain and maximize any comfort? Are we able to then make progress? Towards that energy efficient meaning it’s not such a big step that our mind says, Oh my God, that’s too much work.

Or It’s too, too unsafe, or too much of the unknown. And number four, then can we look into, well, what’s good about it? What’s the pleasurable part of it? But starting in the right order. Cause I think sometimes going after the pleasure of a result that’s not, uh, top of the priority list, that’s actually bottom of the priority list for the way the mine works.

We first wanna get into and can I safely be there and establish that? And then work towards the comfort part, the comfort and the pleasure and the happiness and all of that stuff. So I think hypnosis gives us that wonderful ability to make the mind, or that’s maybe not the, the best wording, to encourage the mind to create those connections, create those associations that once reinforced in the session and.

After the session, then create that new result. There’s my final thoughts, Jason, Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program. And now that you’ve heard the backstory behind how so many of these episodes tend to go viral over time. Indeed, yes. Thank you for sharing it in your ongoing conversations.

With the hypnotic profession. You could head over to the show [email protected] to see exactly how to get in contact with Craig to reach out and say hello. And once again, while you’re there at the computer, check out hypnotic business systems.com. It’s the all access pass to a proven library of resources to Indeed, yes.

Help you to make it rain or check out the free preview, a free on-demand workshop available right [email protected]. See you soon. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.