Podcast Session #337 – Toni Macri-Reiner on Conversational Neuroscience

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Toni Macri-Reiner is an ICBCH Board-Certified Clinical Hypnotist, Life Coach, and the Owner of Indiana Hypnosis For Change. She is a Faster EFT, TRE, and NLP Practitioner. Aside from seeing clients, Toni runs Integrated Hypnosis Training, helping individuals achieve their certification with ICBCH. Toni has a thirty-year background in pottery and fine craft art before transitioning into a hypnosis career where she uses her natural talent for creativity to help other people.

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Toni joins me today to discuss conversational neuroscience and shares how we can introduce research into the work we do. She reveals the conversational neuroscience process and explains how to identify the patterns that already exist in the client’s life to appropriately interrupt them so the client can create new pathways in their mind. Toni also shares how you can layer in techniques, teach, and achieve hypnotic change before formally saying ‘close your eyes.

“ You are not going to get what you want by focusing on what you don’t want.” – Toni Macri-Reiner

  • How Toni built her business through talking about hypnosis, word-of-mouth, and continued training
  • Why Toni uses a complimentary 15-minute phone consultation before booking client sessions
  • The techniques Toni uses, including Faster Tapping, Freddy Jacquin’s Arrow, NLP Reframing, Future Pace, Suggestions, and Post-Hypnotic Suggestions
  • How the conversational work and pattern interrupts have allowed Toni to reduce the length of her sessions
  • Where to set the expectations of your client and teaching the tools and techniques they can use in the future
  • The Move Away technique, giving your clients the space to solve a problem, and examples of the language Toni uses

Resources Mentioned:

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Podcast Episode Transcripts:

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.


This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 337. Tony Macri Reiner on Conversational neuroscience. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Hey, before I get into the introduction of this week’s episode, I have to tell you, I am getting some of the best feedback of some of the most recent episodes, and it’s not just for the fact that if you do something for like seven years, you start to kind of figure it out.

Well, that might be a part of it. It’s this reality that by reaching out to people that many of you might not yet know, Or chances are have seen in passing at conferences. And just to say it simply, they’re just too damn busy working with a bunch of people and creating an incredible impact in their local communities that we don’t yet know them as star instructors, trainers, and so forth.

And I shared this previously on this program that yes, when we have the big name person, the guru in the. , bunch of downloads right away, but it kind of tapers off over time. The episode’s kind of like the one that you’re about to listen to, and as a preview with many others that have already got recorded and ready to go for episodes coming your way, it’s the ones like the one you’re about to listen to that get the best traction over time.

These are the ones that go viral because you can identify with the story. These are the ones that get shared because there’s these tiny nuances. We’re really just diving into a person’s practice. And seeing what’s working right now, I mean, this is where we’ve created the brand of the hypnotic worker.

You wanna make sure if you’re ever taking a training, ensure that that person is actually still seeing clients and not just teaching what they did 15, 20 years ago. Any hypnosis training that you take should follow the model of here’s what’s working right now, versus, here’s the historical record of what we.

Many years ago, and I just love the conversation you’re about to hear with Tony Macri Reiner, uh, who brings in a whole theme of conversational neuroscience, how it is that we can integrate research into the work that we do, how it is that you can hear her story from a background in pottery. Like most of us had, uh, to eventually getting involved with hypnosis and discovering here’s a way to help other people.

And now doing everything from offering services to people locally and around the world, as well as filling up her trainings and really helping to build the future of this incredible profession. Though again, let’s go back to this topic of conversational neuroscience, the opportu. That really what we’re doing is I would simply describe it to my clients.

There’s a very simple formula inside of all that we’re about to do. We’re going to identify the patterns that are already there in your life, appropriately interrupt them so they don’t work the same way, so that then you can be the one to create these new pathways in your mind. Makes sense. They always say yes cuz it’s hitting that description in a very non jargon rich way.

And Tony has some amazing ways of expressing the same concepts too and especially even better. How it is that we can layer in techniques, how it is that we can teach, and how it is that we can achieve so much of the hypnotic change before ever formally saying, Close your eyes. Let’s now do hypnosis. This is a conversation you’re probably gonna wanna listen to at least twice.

To hear some of the nuances of how to layer in these techniques and run so much of what we do from a covert conversational perspective. You can head to the show [email protected] to see how to connect with Tony to get links to her websites, plural, cuz there’s one for training, one for the personal services.

We’ll make that easy for you as she has a name that people make a lot of wrong guesses on as. Mine too. Uh, so get go over to work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 37. That’ll redirect over to the show notes of this episode to see how to best get in contact with Tony. I mentioned learning. What’s working right now.

This is where hypnotic workers is on one part. The all access passed to my hypnosis training library. What’s working right now? What are the techniques I actually use with my clients? What it’s morphed into over time is a community of practitioners all around the world with the same phenomenon based style of approach.

Because think about this, your client’s issue is kinesthetic. Even if you’ve got a person in front of you who is visually oriented or more auditorily centered, their issue is kinesthetic because they don’t like how they feel and they want to change how they feel. So it kind of makes sense to use a fair amount of hypnotic phenomenon in your process, not just for the sake of the cool hypno.

though you are gonna learn some really cool hypno stunts instead, Not even from the perspective of convincing. Let’s set that aside. Even though it will negate the issue of, I felt relaxed, I don’t know if I was hypnotized. It’s because instead by properly using hypnotic phenomenon in a way that the client can feel, the hypnosis is creating a change.

That’s what’s going to, as we’ve already said, interrupt the map of what’s already there. To make it even easier to introduce the new roadmap moving forward, uh, this isn’t the game where we say you can get this module for this price or this one because Systems for Change, hypnotic workers is the digital brain dump of everything, including full sessions from start to finish with real clients.

They signed a waiver giving us permission to watch from genuinely walking in the door to walking out the door. If you wanna negate the old game of, I need a script for this, If you find yourself stuck inside of rigid protocols or if you’re just not yet confident, customizing on the fly for the person in front of.

Check out hypnotic workers.com and here we go, talking about conversational neuroscience. This is episode number 337 with Tony Macri Reiner. Oh, the introduction for me kind of goes back to when I was a teenager and my dad became a hypnotist. He owned me. Owned a restaurant. Yeah. But he became a hypnotist, which was a little odd for me being a teenager who didn’t want anything that seemed weird around me,

And so, but he was really interested in past life regression and he went on to do many things, you know, he was interested in astrology and he became a really excellent numerologist. But he did pass life regressions. And so some of my schoolmates in my Catholic school high school would kind of sneak away and go and have a pass life regression.

And to this day, sometimes they’ll say, Oh my gosh, I’m glad my mother never knew, you know? But , to me, it was like, Well, is this making me cool or not? So fast forward, I became a potter. I did fine art, fine craft fairs over half the country, and it was getting, I was getting pretty tired of it. It was going on 30 years and um, stuff is heavy.

I pulled a trailer and so I thought, What can I do that incorporates all the things I love? I’ve always been into self-help and learning more. And I was reading a book, I think Change Your Life in Seven Days, maybe. I don’t know. Or it was a Bandler book and I was looking at it and the word hypnosis, I swear there was a red laser that went from my forehead to that word, and it was like, I can do that.

I know what that’s about. And so from that point on, I spent about two years transitioning and became certified. And here I am today, about 10 years later. Nice. So then I, I’m curious to ask about that artistic background working in it. Is it fair to say pottery? I’ve had, I’ve never heard it referred to as a potter, so that’s new to me.

Yeah. Potter. I made a certain very nichey kind of, Um, I have thrown peace on the wheel and then embellished it and they look like women’s heads and you could put plants or wine bottles in ’em, and it was a very, it just kind of caught on. And so that’s what I was doing. But what I loved about it is they made people smile.

I, people told me, it’s like, I know this sounds weird, but every time I look at this I just feel better. Yeah. And I was working for, And so, and I could be creative. Well, hypnosis to me is so creative and it’s not heavy to carry around. So, um, yeah, that’s one of the things I loved about it, is that I could be, I can be creative with how I work with people.

Yeah, that, that’s fascinating. And this is now, you know, many times over the years we’ve had someone come on and, you know, there’s the conversation that often pops up in any training as to, well, I wish I grew up with this stuff. And in some ways you did. So having that around, even though it was eventually a different kind of work than where you, uh, found yourself focusing on, uh, what are some of those takeaways of just having hypnosis around as a.

it was just kind of became kind of a normal thing that, Oh yeah, you’re gonna be hypnotized. Okay, just relax and my, you know, and my dad was kind of clear about, yeah, I don’t really do family, you know, people. Mm-hmm. . The one time he actually tried to hypnotize me. Um, I had lost a necklace that I had just gotten and I just, I had just gotten in.

I really liked it. It was very popular kind of thing, and I did know where it was. So he said, Well, I’ll hypnotize you and we’ll see if we can find it. Well, what he didn’t know is that I had skipped school the day that I lost it. So not really knowing. I mean, I doubt if he did a good pre-talk with me that I did was afraid I would blurt out that, Oh yeah, I skipped school that day.

So, you know, that didn’t quite work. But I think some of the takeaways, especially being around past life regression for me was that okay, this was kind of boring. Sometimes it wasn’t. And sometimes the everyday thing that I learned that a lot of. Past life regression is just going back to life or kind of mundane everyday things.

And it’s not always that you were Cleopatra or something like that, but yet it can be really exciting to find things out, you know, if you’re going in that direction. I guess just that it, My big takeaway is just, it’s just kind of a normal thing, you know? And it wasn’t weird and that I could do it because I watched it.

I heard it. I think there’s a huge takeaway inside of that, that you know, there’s a moment in a training one time where here was, it was like a three weekend event. The way that we had arranged it and here was who could have been deemed the star student of this event. But then something happened between the second and the third weekend where she’s now around her family and they’re going, Yeah, but people are afraid of that.

You shouldn’t call it hypnosis. You could see that energy just completely dropped. No. and the response had to be, It’s not that your family members are saying that, it’s that you’re agreeing with them. Exactly. You know, something happens differently when you’re the advocate. I’ve talked to times around how, even though I’m very clearly in a different industry, growing up with family members that were all entrepreneurs, the idea of launching your own thing, Wasn’t too out of the ordinary.

Um, the, the most obscure reference I can pull out is the actor comedian, what’s his name? Uh, Jason Suda, who was on Saturday Night Live and the horrible bosses movies. And there was an interview with him and just this stuck with me where, um, well, what did your parents think about you becoming an actor?

Where they cautious about it? And he just pauses and had this perfect response of, Oh, you didn’t do your home. My, my uncle is George went, you know, Norm from Cheers. Yeah. Like we weren’t close, but you know, cuz he lived on the different coast than us. But the fact that I grew up in a family where someone had done that, it wasn’t outta the ordinary.

And I think one of the takeaways is, This is something that’s not necessarily a strength that I have in my way. You have in your way. It kind of goes to that belief system that we put to it, that we can create that normalcy of just, yeah, this is what I do. This is a part of society. I can help you with that.

Exactly. You know, it kind of goes to the effect when you. It translates to when you see people with certain issues, you know, I’m really depressed or I have this anxiety. Well, how was your family? Were they depressed? You know, were they really anxious? Oh yeah. My mom was really anxious all the time. And it’s that same thing of growing up in that environment you grow up and your family are all doctors and lawyers and professional people.

It’s just really easy to go into that. You pick that up the same way you could pick up anxiety. , which goes to once again, the genius of a Ron Pope infomercial at three in the morning. There’s got to be a better way. Is there , Is there, it’s like or not? Is there a story of working with a client that kind of stands out of, Cause I know a lot of the work that you do is a bit more of a conversational approach.

Mm-hmm. , you know, along with some of the formal hypnosis. Is there something that stands out of working with somebody? Where really a lot of the work had to be changing those belief systems around the issue in addition to the issue itself. Well, you know, any number, I’m blanking on a specific client at the moment, but it’s, it’s so common that.

Well, when you’re working with, with food issues and it’s like, well, what was the story? What happened in food? And it’s like, um, yeah, my stepmom forced fed me. This is a specific story now that I’m saying it. My stepmom forced fed me in front of family members. She shoved food down my throat. I mean, that’s an awful story.

But to go through that and then suddenly you’re an adult and you can’t eat a lot of things because it brings back that emotion. So, you know. The whole family thing. That might have been not the greatest example for what you just asked me, but it’s what came to mind with the family stuff that we go through.

Just, I think anxiety would be a big thing with seeing your parents really stressed about stuff and taking it out on the family, even though maybe it’s not you personally. Mm-hmm. , and then you just absorb that this is how you do this, this is how you function in the world, is to be anxious. I, I think there’s something huge inside of that where sometimes, maybe not always, but sometimes the client’s issue is not even theirs.

Exactly. It’s something that they grew up around and, you know, it’s something that just became a part of them. And, you know, we, we could find these shortcuts sometimes if I could find the story as to, Oh, the cigarettes never needed to belong to you in the first place. Yeah, there’s one of the foot, feet in the door when this is a rare one.

When it was the story as to how an extremely religious family believed that because there was never the intention for human to fly. That’s why flying is so dangerous. Like, Oh, that’s new. Uh, . Yeah. But to, to address it from the angle of you can give this fear politely back to the people who gave it to you, because it doesn’t have to be your.

And they, a really good way I have found to point that out with people that have kids is when they just volunteer to me that, yeah, I’ve noticed that now my son is just picking it as nails or my daughter just seems really anxious and it’s like they’re in the office for anxiety and it’s like Exactly.

And. They are getting this from you. Is this what you want? And you know, I, I like to throw kids under the bus, you know, with that, because to me it makes such an impact. Sorry. But you know, it’s like, oh, you spoke, you have kids. Okay. You know, imagine this and imagine that. And, and so I think it makes a big impact when you know you have somebody close to your heart that it’s like, now you’re putting that behavior on them.

Do you really want. for anyone out there, uh, who’s ever cautious around, you know, putting on videos or doing audio programs or like, I do this podcast, I go on a bunch of others. Uh, there is no faster way to hear every idiosyncrasy in your own speech and, uh, fix that crap really quickly. And as soon as you hear your kid drop one of these extra little tag phrases mm-hmm.

that you don’t need, I’m like, well, We’re gonna edit that out right away, . Yeah, that’s right. So from the career in the pottery and the artistic side, then getting into hypnosis, what was some of that journey then in terms of getting up and running, getting those first couple of clients in? I did, and I don’t know if it’s a viable thing anymore, but I decided to do a living social ad.

You know, it’s like, you know, uh, whatever the other thing is. Yeah, there’s Groupon, there’s Living Social, I think Yelp has a version of it, and there, there’s a bunch of these out there. Well, um, at the time I felt like living social might be a step up from group on and they let me do it. I had a website. I started out kind of in a closet room at a salon that a friend of mine that’s having the tissue goes, Oh, there’s an empty room.

And that worked out for about a month. And then I moved on from that, but still I had a space and um, could see clients. And I just did this ad and I think it was one session for $80. I probably. Maybe $40 off of that. But I saw a lot of clients and I got really good at upselling to three sessions. I got always was saying I stay really booked.

You know, even when I wasn’t, I was just kind of prompting myself with that, with the energy and um, I know that. I, of course, that was the beginning. I don’t know what, I don’t what I know now, but those clients all had some change. I knew more than they did, is how I kept thinking about it. , I know more than you do and I can help you with this.

Sometimes an expert just has to be that one person one step ahead of you. That’s right. It’s like, okay, you don’t know how to relax or calm. I can help you do that. So I did see quite a few clients with that. I ran the ad a couple times and it just started. Then going word of mouth. I’ve never really done.

Ads anywhere. Maybe I’ve done a print ad in a small magazine, local magazine, but I just started talking about it as much as I could and staying excited. And of course, taking every course that came my way that I could find and to where I’ve just kind of, um, Landed in a place where I have a certain way, I work with certain techniques and you know, I tell people you’re gonna make changes before we even get to the hypnosis.

But of course it’s all hypnosis when I’m working, you know, more conversationally with them. And I find hypnosis is just so much teaching. And you know this Jason, it’s like you’re constantly educating people, even when you’ve had ’em watch a video about what hypnosis is. You’ve gone through your spiel.

You still are repeating the same things and keeping them educated about what a great tool it is, the benefits of it, and how it is in anything that’s weird. Yeah. Yeah. I love what you said about living social, which, you know, when this became, I’d say more mainstream and more popular, I think probably around like the early 2000 tens, maybe up until like maybe 2013 or 14 mm-hmm.

the, the, the fault was that so many people put down the entire category and I, I think there were some ways that some were doing it that were just not as good. That some were doing the three sessions for 99. , which they might have been making $12 a session. Right. But the question though is, you know, what purpose does this serve?

It’s a different audience that you did not have yet access to. And I think the way you were doing that was great. That, you know, it was a time, Correct me on this. At that point there was more of, uh, a budget of time to put into this. Exactly. And perhaps there was money. So you were using someone else’s audience.

to bring that, that first crop of people in. And then really the session was give them the best experience possible. So that now here’s how we can do more. Right, exactly. Um, I did have plenty of time and a lot of people just wanted the experience of hypnosis. You know, a number of the, those people, they didn’t all end up booking more sessions of course, but mm-hmm.

they had the experience and it was a good experience for ’em, so they could go on and, and say, I did this, you know, it’s cool. I’m sure I helped people stop smoking back then. I don’t quite remember those clients, but, . It was a good experience for me and them, so I thought it was just a win-win. It got my name out and.

Yeah, help change people’s lives without me spending much money to get started. Yeah, I mean, there’s always, there’s always a time cost. There’s always, even if you’re not spending money on ads, there’s always some sort of money cost in terms of acquiring a new client. So if the, if there’s a budget of time and these services are still out there, they may not be as popular as they were before, which probably makes it even more ripe for better.

And I think maybe they’ve, I’ve heard people that have tried to do one of those services and they were turned down. So I don’t know what the parameters are anymore with that. If they’ve changed it, I somehow squeaked in it was meant to be, I guess. But I would encourage people to try that and see if they get in to that.

I believe living social, that could be wrong on this. And we’re recording this, so let me go on the record by saying maybe, Uh, but I believe Groupon and Living Social finally did like merge together. The same as you know, for a bunch. Makes sense for a bunch of years. It was serious radio versus XM radio.

And now my app on my phone says Sirius xm and they’re just one. Um, but so much of it is that they have a template and it’s easier for them to follow a specific template. You, you’re inside hypnotic business systems than in there. I talk about how I was using that to do group sessions. I was doing a group self hypnosis workshop.

and then, you know, there’d be 15 people in the room. We would sell that for like maybe $90. I’d get about maybe 45 of that, which the income of that part. Was good, but then that was my opportunity to then sell one to one services. And I will unofficially say this, and I know they don’t happen to listen to my podcast, so let’s go here,

It would be that I just eventually had to just, you know, put my foot down to say, Cuz they wanted me to do the three sessions. 99. Mm-hmm. . And I just had to say, it’s like, well I could do that, but I’m already filling up my calendar at my full. Right. Uh, why, why would I do that? Well, it will give you better exposure.

If I wanted exposure, I’d go downtown and drop my pants . So, no, I’m only, so just because I stuck to my guns and said this is the one way I’m gonna do it. Um, and let’s do that. If not, I’m completely okay walking away from this. So, and I, and I’ve had people replicate that or something similar to what you’ve done.

So just being direct but polite about it and just saying, This is the way I want to do it. Right. And times have changed since I did it. And I think when I did it, I, I mean, of course the money was nice that I’m making some money, but. . That wasn’t really the point at all. Yeah. It was just like, let me just see people.

Let me just see people. Because as you know, teaching it’s like practice, practice, practice. You don’t get better by thinking about it. Mm-hmm. and I, I think that’s the biggest takeaway from that is that was that opportunity to get really good at what you did. Not by sitting in the room and hoping the phone rings, but instead by getting out there, whatever means was possible to be found and actually do the work.

Uh, there, there’s something you said earlier, I want to go back to around how that was where you started to find your own style of doing it. Mm-hmm. . So if you had to kind of characterize, let’s say the user experience, someone’s reaching out to you, someone’s discovering you, what’s kind of the journey?

That they’re going through to then eventually become your client? Well, um, because of you, I have, I don’t, I do get a few random phone calls where they find me on Google, but generally you have to book a 15 minute call with me. Mm-hmm. and you can’t just go to my website to book anything other than that.

So we have a conversation, I find out, you know, if it seems like we’re a good fit, if it’s something I can work with and how they’re doing with it, um, book a session. And I’m, I’m both online and going back into my office a little bit now, So I spend 15 to 30 minutes doing an intake because I figure I’ve gotten in the middle of, you know, further along and go, Oh my gosh, I didn’t, I don’t know this, I don’t know what they, you know, what they want or didn’t ask this question.

So I, I’m pretty thorough with my intake. And then I say, as I mentioned before, this is all hypnosis. You know, I may have you close your eyes off and on. But we’ll do the formal trance in a while, but by then you’ve made these big changes. So I, The first thing I do is I teach everyone faster tapping because I certified in that.

It’s such a good technique for anything. So I teach ’em that we go through some things. Then I do a few more conversational things. I use the arrow a lot because I. Freddie Jacqueline’s Arrow because I use it for everything, not just pain. Um, and a few more NLP ish kind of things, moving things away, reframing things like that as I’m teaching the whole time.

And then, They’re already so transy by the time I move ’em to my magic chair, you know that it’s just like, close your eyes, go back there. Pretty much. Right. And I, I do tend to do a full relaxation with people, even if it’s faster. Um, just because I feel like most people need that, that experience. And then we kind of cement in based on what they’ve told me, you know, future pace.

Suggestions post, if not suggestions, and you’re good to go. And you know, I used to allow two hours for a session, and now I’m pretty much an hour and a half. And for a first session after that, it’s an hour and sometimes in a half hour, 40 minutes we’re done. Just, I feel like because of the conversational work, And then it’s like, let’s just cement this in to your unconscious.

Well, you know, and you know, we’re working with the unconscious the whole time, but I love brain, the neurosciencey thing, so I’m always looking for new little ways to tweak the neurons, the neuron pattern. Yeah. Well let, let’s come back to the neuroscience here in a moment. I wanna go back to something you said though.

Which I, I hear that pattern that when I first got started and I was in the same boat, it would be two hours for the session and sometimes it would go over. Nowadays it’s coming in for most clients, with some exception on purpose to be right at about an hour and a half and really hour 15. Mm-hmm. , what changes in that, in that format, would you say?

Broaden that ef. I think I became more honed in on the intake. Yeah. And I’m much better at stopping them from telling all the detail of the story that I don’t need because, you know, and sometimes this last week I had two clients who just wanted to keep going back to the old, old pattern and. I’m kind of like, you’re not gonna get what you want by focusing on what you don’t want.

So I think by me keeping them a little more focused on what we want, and hey, I know I’m looping you around. I know I’m repeating, but there’s a method to my madness. Just go with me , you know, Just follow my instruction. So I think that’s been part of it and I just feel, I guess, more confident. I calibrate easier how the client’s doing rather than spending so much time being sucked into the store and it’s like, Ooh, that’s really interesting.

They did what? You know, which is kind of easy to do. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it’s like if you keep focusing on what you don’t want and how the problem that got you here, you’re never gonna get out of it. So that’s sort of my philosophy with. Is there a different way that you’re framing some of the process to sort of intro the fact that so much of it is conversational and also so much of it is educational as well?

Um, I do tell clients from the beginning, from the first call that I am going to teach them. I do say, and this may not be true, sorry to any, any other hypnotists, but I do say I work a little differently than a lot of hypnotists, and that you’re not just coming in and I’m putting you into an immediate tra or I’m helping you get into an immediate trans.

Um, I say, I’m really going to be teaching you things. I’m gonna help you learn some ways so that if some of these things should crop up in the future, because of course life happens, um, you’re gonna know how to get out of it faster and easier and move yourself through it. If the idea, if the thought of a cigarette comes in to you, if you see somebody smoking in the thought, Ooh, that sounds good.

You’re gonna know how to nip that in the bud. And I think that’s enticing to people to be empowered that. We know hypnosis, they’re not under our control. And I don’t care how many times you tell them, I still think people have the idea that, Oh, what if something happens and I’m not in the session, What am I gonna do?

And so that’s where I come in with, and I’m, I’m kind of a practical person. I like those things that like, do this, do that. Look here, look there, you know, and, and notice the difference. So I, I start from the very. Yeah. And I like that way of introducing it, especially the whole, you know, this way if something arises, you know how to handle this without me.

Exactly. It’s not about that you’re, Oh, I’m not in your office and what am I gonna do? It’s like, well, you know how to do, and if you. I love this phrase, and I used to tell, say this, and you know, I try to put a lot of humor in my sessions, but it’s like, if you do what I tell you to do, you’re gonna be successful.

And then I’ll joke and go, God, I love saying that. I mean, what can, What job do you have where you can go if you do what I tell you to do? But it’s true. If you do what I tell you to do, if you use the things I teach you, you’re gonna be so far ahead. I mean, you know, life is like a spiral. We go through this mucky stuff that happens and then we go around and the next time, oh, it comes up again, but it’s not as bad, and I get through it faster till finally you’re on that spiral and it’s like, Oh yeah, I remember that.

Now I’m done. Mm-hmm. . Well, there there’s a phrase that. I forget if I shared it on here, if it was inside one of the programs. And I love moments like this where, and I, and I tell my athletic clients the moment where it’s like, there’s something I said one time in an educational resource that a lot of my clients loved.
And when I told it to hypnotist, they hated it, . And it was the, the mentality of the athlete that the athlete knows their ailments. That they understand that, okay? Mm-hmm. . So I’ve worked with power lifters when I kink my back that weird way, Here’s what I do on the yoga ball. Here’s how I foam roll it out.

Here’s how I recover from that faster. Um, when it was the gymnast who had a history of a hairline fracture and landing inappropriately on her foot, it meant that she knew how to compensate for that so she could still compete even if there. A trace of the mild injury and I, I had some in our loving profession go, That’s a negative suggestion.

You’re reinforcing. I’m like, well, you get out and run 26 miles and tell me your body’s not sore. . Exactly. Student in a class one time, super marathon runner, and someone’s like, How do you run 50 miles without your feet getting sore and a responsible? She’s like, Of course they get sore . But it, it’s building that mentality that, Okay, well as you said, life happens.

And if this thing occurs, here’s what I know to do about it. Right. Hypnosis, which is not, Which is not taking, Yes, that exactly where I was gonna go. It’s not taking away the magic of, and it’s calling out the reality. Yeah, it’s like I, I just don’t want them to think that this is going to be magic and that it solves everything.

It gives you the tools and the resources to move past it easier. And maybe, I mean, it can feel magical. I mean, you know, we’ve all seen really magical things kind of happen where people are just so much feeling, so much more resourceful and can function with things. But I don’t like setting expectations too high.

And I think there’s that fine line between, ooh, do. Promise. I mean, I don’t promise, but where do you fall? Do you, You don’t want people to have over expectations, but you want them to believe it’s going to change. Yeah. I mean, there the. Thing around asking expectations of, you know, if this issue’s gone, what’s gonna be different?

Uh, just so I know what to say, if it’s only 20% there, if it’s dramatically down, what’s gonna be different? Mm-hmm. . But setting those expectations so we’re not, you know, just building the mindset of helping someone to cope with the problem, but to resolve it, move past it, and prevent it as a result. Yes. I think that’s important.

So you brought up neuroscience a little while ago. Mm-hmm. , If we had to kind of define it down and ask what are some of those main teaching points, what are some of the main principles you might share with your clients? What, what might those be? Well, um, the neurons at fire together, wire together, you know, it’s that.

Yeah. Keeping those pathways going and, I use the analogy that if you are setting your GPS to go to California or you wanna go to California, but you’re setting your GPS to go to Florida, you’re never gonna get to California. So it’s, it’s in your brain. If you keep thinking those old thoughts, that reticular activating system, I explain that one a lot.

how focusing on what you want to happen is gonna show you more of that. Mm-hmm. , we just, we just put a new porch and a porch railing on our house. So I was looking at everybody’s railings all over every neighborhood, and oh my gosh, I thought we’d done it. It’s there. It’s like, Okay, what can I focus on now?

Because all I’m seeing are railings and I need to get that out of my head. So I do explain that one a lot with people, and I think once they get it, it starts making sense that, yeah, if I keep talking about the old problem, it’s gonna, I’m gonna keep noticing that, that, and a lot of things about such a simple thing that I use and explain is that move away technique where, you know, your brain codes, those things that are up close is I important, overwhelming or scary.

Somebody that’s afraid of a spider isn’t picturing a tiny little spider across the room. In their face. And so just the idea of having the sense of moving it away can make such a huge difference for people having that space to solve a problem. Because now it’s over there and your brain’s not gonna say, Oh, it’s not important.

I’m not gonna take care of it. It just gives you space to make a move. Well, can you, can you walk us through like some of the language that you would use to introduce that? You know, some people obviously visualize better and they get a clear picture, but I try to make that not a prerequisite. So get a sense of that idea of the next time you are reaching for that bottle of alcohol, that wine bottle that you’re saying you wanna drink less of.

So when you have a sense of that, and you know, it’s a clear, is it a picture? And I always use a, is it like, is it within arm’s length? That idea in your mind’s eye, if it’s within arm’s, I’m gonna ask you to almost telescope it out across down the street, around the block. Just a tiny little thing, like it’s a little cell phone sitting over there and you know, you couldn’t possibly really see what it says from here.

And let me know when you do that. And you know, if there’s a sound, turn it down, you know, blur out the image, but make it small, move it away. And now that you’ve done that, , I want you to notice if there’s anything between you and that bottle of wine out there. Is there metaphorically, Is it a, a beam of light, a chain, a rubber band?

Is there anything that kind of pulls it back? And if they say yes, I’m like, Well, okay, what would you do to get rid of that? Would you cut it or burn it, or, you know, And they do that. Or if there’s nothing there, I’m like, good. Now what’s that like? Is you sit here noticing way over there. that old bottle and it always is like, I don’t, just doesn’t seem that important to me.

And that that’s right. As it’s not very important. How can you, What do you imagine doing as you come into your house after a hard day of work and you’re stressed? What are you imagining doing now? And I loop that back around, over and over. That’s kind of what I would do. Are you doing that just from a conversational foundation or just a conversational.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, I might have the answer, but I’d love to hear yours. Uh, are you inviting eye closure or are they just sometimes doing that on their own because they can process it better that way? I usually invite eye closure and say, You don’t have to, but it might help you imagine this as you close your eyes.

Yeah, because some people don’t process better with their eyes closed, but I always think I do. So I always assume they’re going, they should, but I try to keep that open ended . I. Quick story on that. I, part of my history of all of this was the game of, again, mapping out like this five year plan of I’m gonna take these trainings from these people.

These are the ones I’ve identified at the industry I wanna learn from. And then look to the other calendar of going, We’ve made the decision to start a family next year. Hey, I’m gonna do everything now, Uh, , just get it done. But it was a, it was an NLP training I went to, and the person was very much of.

Purest way of doing everything. Mm-hmm. . And was that you never have to ask them to close their eyes. They don’t have to, Which that’s in most of the bler grinded books. Damnit, uh, but from his purest standpoint was insisting you don’t have to. So I was working in that way with somebody and I’m like, Just imagine this thing over here, and what happens when you blurred?

He goes, I see a table. Like, What do you mean? He goes, I’m looking at the table over there. I don’t see the thing you’re having me imagine. And I’m just like, Screw it. And close your eyes and imagine. And he goes, Your eyes. Yeah. All right. I got it. Now I’m like, Okay, let’s just work real people here. . Yeah.

Right. I think most, the majority of people visualize better and I try to be careful of using those, you know, specific words, C, and look and all those and like just imagine, get a sense of it. I use that for a lot. Yeah, I like that one a lot. I’m teaching now and I’m having to really, you know, get students to.

Be sure to open end those things because it’s so easy to get caught in. I’ll see this and picture that, and you just, not everybody’s gonna do that. And then it’s gonna make it harder for, for ’em to do it or they’re gonna be confused and, and sometimes it’s just that specificity of language. I can visualize, I can create the cinematic response.

But when you use the phrase, see it in your mind’s eye, I suddenly go, What the hell does that? Which is gonna work for millions of other people. But for that one person that’s gonna eliminate, And I love what you just said there of just get a sense of, imagine, think about less words can do it. You’ve mentioned the trainings that you, uh, offer.

Can you tell us more about those? Yes. I took your training with Richard non. And I think 2018 and when everybody was writing content, writing books, and doing things during the pandemic, I was baking and gardening nice. And it just couldn’t quite focus on it. So I finally got it together and just am in the.

We just had the third class of my 10 week class, the first one last night. And um, it’s just exciting. It’s exciting to see people and the people in my group are all healers in their own right in different ways, and it’s just exciting to be introducing this to other people. And my first hypnosis training was less than stellar.

And so I had to seek out a lot of training, so I always thought if I ever taught hypnosis, I would wanna make sure they really had a good basic understanding, which of course in a hundred hour class is just the tip of the iceberg. But I’m just having fun introducing things and being curious about what they, their spin on things and how they do it.

You mentioned they were in other healing sort of professions, Like what kind of Uh, people? Well, Reiki, I think there’s several Reiki and a massage therapist and TRE person, trauma release exercise person, and actually someone who’s a medical intuitive and a healer in her own right that way. So they all come with something.

I’m trying to just pretend they don’t know anything at all so that I don’t assume what they do know. So, yeah, but it’s a learning experience for me as well, and I’m already planning on my next class in September and thinking, Okay, this, it’ll be even more polished then, but, um, yeah, I suggest anybody take your class in a, I’m sure it’s much different now instead of lasting two days.

Wasn’t, isn’t it like eight days now or something? Well, that, yeah. You’re talking about the train the trainer and I believe, Yeah. Train the trainer. Yeah, we’re recording this in June, and this will come out probably in August, just based on our schedule. I think we’re gonna do one in the fall. Uh, but just an update and you’ll, you’ll get access to these videos too, is that we’ve adopted that hybrid approach for the train the trainer as well, where now there’s longer videos to watch in a library, which makes the real time online training even more valuable because now it becomes, let’s now discuss this, Let’s now put this into work so we’re accomplishing more.

And less time and providing a better experience that way. Uh, so yeah, we’ll put links to that in the show notes too. Yeah. What’s the website that people can go to to check out your trainings or even track you? Um, so my website is Tony, t o n i, Macri, m a c r i, Reiner, R E I N e r.com. A lot of eyes and e or Indiana Hypnosis for Change, they go to the same place.

My training is called Integrated Hypnosis Training because I do, it isn’t just totally hypnosis. I do teach some techniques that are more NLP ish and a few NLP concepts in it. Um, even though it is a hypnosis training course, So, um, yeah, those are both ways to reach me or to check out my training. The next one will be September 15th, and it is a hybrid approach as well where they’re watching, they’re doing pre-class work, watching videos, practicing, and then we meet once a week and, um, answer questions.

I go over more things and they practice with each other. outstanding, and we’ll put links to those in the show notes. Uh, this will be episode number 337. We now make this easy for you. If you go to work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 37, that’ll just point right back over to the show notes where you can find all of those links.

Uh, Tony, it’s been awesome having this conversation with you and, uh, capturing it for everybody to hear. Before we wrap it up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there? Just if you’re already a hypnotist, Embrace it, enjoy it, which I think most people do. If you’re thinking about becoming a hypnotist, check it out because it’s such an awesome way to help people and help yourself and make a living.

Jason Lett here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, leaving your reviews online, subscribing, sharing it into your social media streams, and getting it tattooed in various parts of your. You can head over to the show notes that’s new. You can head over to the show [email protected] slash 3 37 to see how to best get in contact with Tony.

Find the details of this conversation while you’re there to check out hypnotic workers.com. When you have systems for change, it takes out the guesswork of what we do. What happens when the client shows up and they wanna work on something differently than what you talked about on the phone, Rather than that spiking fear and concern and trepidation in your soul, you’re gonna learn the systems for change in which every technique now becomes a universal approach.

So you can modify it for basically anything that walks in the door. Somebody in our profession say the client writes the script for you. I think they say that because it’s popular, you’re gonna learn how to ask the right questions at the right time. So there’s a definite through line all the way from the intake.

Through the pre-talk, through the inductions you choose, through the methods for change to build that unstoppable confidence in your hypnotic skills. Check that out. Get instant on demand [email protected] Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.