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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 36, part one with Ross Jeffries. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Welcome back. It’s Jason Lynette here.
Excited to jump into part one of this series with Ross Jeffries. You know what? I’m gonna be blunt here. Uh, I’m more excited for you to hear part two of this, which is gonna come to you in a couple of weeks. Uh, in part one, it’s Ross and I, just catching up. He’s someone who actually reached out to me, uh, couple of months back as this podcast was maybe a dozen or so sessions in, I forget the history here, if it was a Facebook message or I believe it was a phone call, someone who I’d never had any contact with reaching out to me.
Definitely, well, definitely knew who he was, but was a nice surprise to meet by phone and then at a recent visit out to Las Vegas, we both happened to be out there at the same time and got together for dinner. For those of you that may know of his history, you’re gonna hear a very different side of him.
For those of you who don’t, a simple Google search will tell you the history, but more specifically now, He references here, uh, a style of work that’s been evolving over the years and just a focus that’s been shifting. The new website, ross jeffries live.com. You can learn more over there. Past appearances you’ll see featured there from cnn, from Fox, from NBC Rolling Stone, of course, the Playboy magazine.
And there’s a recent CNN interview that he’s been, uh, chatting about online, which if that appears. Put that up in the show notes as well. I’m gonna jump right into this session. Just a quick heads up, I’ll phrase it this way. There’s some light language in this recording. Nothing too vulgar, of course, just conversational.
But I do like to give you the heads up in case you’re listening out loud in a public place. This is a fascinating series here with Ross Jeffries, part one, starting right now. Part two where he flips the tables and well, I believe interviews me the way it ended up working out. That’s gonna come at you in a couple of weeks.
Here we go.
You know, I’ve been becoming more and more devoted to my healing practice because ultimately what I see myself as doing in my later years, I’m 56, is devoting myself to teaching people how to heal. Now, right now, the modalities I use are hyp. Mindful meditation, which I’ve found. It’s interesting and I wanna have this discussion here on this podcast about how they’re similar and different and what the intersection between the two of them is.
So I’ve been looking into those. Uh, no. I’ve been working with those for some time. Nlp, but really my NLP is not traditional nlp. It’s more about looking at people’s language and then by how they speak, pointing out to them how they’re thingy their. How they’re turning their world into a thing. Uh, so, um, I would like, if you can keep track of these three topics, then we can unpack all of them.
Oh yeah, absolutely. But the fourth thing I’ve pretty recently discovered is something called trauma release exercises, which I believe has the potential. To surpass all of these other modalities and actually physically healing the fight, flight, and freeze modalities that happen to people who are traumatized.
Uh, I am going to take trainings and make this one of the major pieces of my life’s work. I found it as I look at it, to have the potential to be more effective than any of these other modalities. And I’d really like to speak on it and tell you just my initial experiences. I’m just beginning to do. . Yeah.
That’s fascinating. And, and especially too, I mean, it’s that knowledge of taking the scope of everything that we have and packing it together in our own unique ways, and specifically let, let’s spend some time on that concept of just thingify the world around us. That, Yeah, as we look at the way that we begin to create our understanding of the world, it’s that phrase that for many of us, as we work with clients, figuring out that sometimes.
The client’s language is, well most of the time the client’s language is telling us everything we need to know to give us that next step to help to unpack it and help to rebuild that client. And recently, I don’t know if you’ve heard of clean communication, have you heard of it? Yes. I had a session with a woman who’s like the big mucky muck in.
She had me in a profound. Conversational trance. I need a few more sessions with her. I walked around for like two days feeling like something had shifted inside of me more effective than any hypnosis. Uh, I, I have a hypnotherapist who’s working with me for a while. She referred me out to deal with some of my own trauma issues.
And I wanna say that, uh, based on what I’ve seen from Dr. Elli, Created these trauma release exercises. I think virtually the entire society is either experiencing chronic trauma or acute trauma. But let’s get back to your question. Please repeat it, . Yeah, let’s chat a little bit. First of all, in that concept of just thingify our language and how we, Give me an example.
So when I do teach my, um, pickup and et cetera seminars, guys will say to me, You know, I want more confidence with women. That tells me that they’re viewing confidence as a thing. Or a trait that they either have or they don’t. So my response used to be, Okay, let me go up to my room. I have 10 liter jar of confidence fluid.
We’ll drill a hole in your head, , and it’s $5,000 for a liter, and I’ll pour it at the top of your head. So, and often when I work with people, their language reveals to me where they’re actually stuck, the kind of questions they ask and where they have their sense of impossibility when they say something like, I can’t approach women.
The interesting thing to me is, first of all, it, it sounds like it’s just a limitation on their skill, but when they identify it with I, essentially they’re making it part of your identity, and when you make it part of your identity, you’re. Implying or buying into the implication that it’s not changeable.
Uh, now we know identities are the idea of a fixed identity. We know it’s people who do deep trans, that that’s not really, so anyway, but that being the case. And they’re also, and here’s the really key thing, They’re not specifying as to time, when did they have the problem? How long have they had it? If you make a statement like, I have difficulty.
Meeting women or I can’t meet women. Is that a statement about your past? Is it an observation of your present is a commitment to your future? And as you know, when the unconscious mind encounters ambiguity, it searches for all possible meanings and applies all of them. So I teach my students to, first of all, disidentify with the problem and then limit it in time.
So to say, up until now, I did not have the skillset to meet. That right away begins to create a wedge into the problem. Now, it’s certainly not all you need. You also need to begin to give them the skills, et cetera, et cetera. But it’s a start. Another example would be I have students say to me, You know, I can approach the sevens or eights, but I can’t get the nines and tens.
and my statement is, has it ever occurred to you? There’s no such thing as a nine or a 10. There’s only the level of sexual excitement you feel in your body. Once they accept that, I can show them how to ground into that and do something with it, but as long as they see it as a thing outside of themselves, they’re not in contact with what’s going on inside of them and what you can’t be in contact with.
You have no power to shift and change what you can be in contact with. Then at least you have the. To shift and change. You still may not be able to do it, but at least it opens up the possibility. I’m sure that makes sense to you. And the other thing is you’re very experienced. You know, when the clients come in, their language, doesn’t necessarily reflect what’s actually going on.
It just gives you their metaphor for what’s going on. Right. And uh, specifically you made that transition of chatting about that in terms of working with a client for a change process. It’s one of those bits about just how universal this information is, that the, the concepts for producing a sale, the son’s concepts for producing a change, the concepts for building that relationship, building that connection.
So specifically here, You know, we can break it down to be that nominalization pattern to go. They’ve turned this thing into something and as soon as they start to understand the structure of that something being several parts that are moving and no longer just static and stuck, even that alone is gonna change the perception of the issue.
Yes. And another thing I’ll point out is to listen to the metaphor clients use. I had a client call me. He said, You know, I went. I try to use your stuff, but I went to the mall and I hit a wall . I said, Oh my God, did you break some bones? Did you call the paramedics? He said, No, no, no. That kind of, not that kind of wall.
I said, Well, was the wall made of jello? I, So if it was made of jello, did you eat any of it? He said, No, I don’t literally mean a wall. I meant I felt stuck. Aha. So , you know, their metaphors are very interesting. If they gimme a metaphor like, Oh, I hit a wall, I’ll go, Okay. If he actually really physically did hit a wall, What are some of the things that would’ve happened?
And I feed that back to them and then they have to laugh at it. . Another thing I’ll do is with clients who are really seriously damaged and they think it’s about them. I give assignments and the purpose of the assignment is to begin to externalize the problem. So by observing it or putting it onto other people, they can see it’s not who they are.
It’s bad. Shall share an example? Yeah, go for it. I had a client who was really, really screwed up and I said, Look, I’m gonna give you an assignment. I want you to go to the center of town or somewhere where there’s a lot of people and I want you to look and look and see until you find a person who you, you feel is a guy who’s got it all.
A guy who looks like he’s successful with women, he’s good looking. He walks confidently. He looks like he has lots of. And I want you to write down a few sentences about him and then I want you to write down what, if you were to take all those shitty beliefs and all that shitty programming you’ve got in your head and stick it into his head, and this other person for three months runs your shitty program in, in his head, I want you to write down some notes about how he’d feel about himself, what his life would look.
If he took your programming and put it in his head, so he did the assignment. He brought it back into this long thing. Now that was the start of getting a wedge in to his experience of disidentifying with the problem. Milton Erickson would use the strategy to ex get the client to externalize the problem, so they’d begin to disidentify.
And now my interest. You know, the thing with hypnosis is, I think, and, and mindfulness to some extent, they’re a top down. They’re changing from the top down. But I’ve found with some people, they’re so fucked up neurologically that you need to get a somatic kind of thing and, and begin to change their neurology and change from the bottom up.
Yeah, absolutely. And specifically that transitions us right over to, uh, the concept of this combination of mindfulness and hypnosis. You know, and I’d point out that oftentimes if the theme pops up of a client asking in my office about, you know, let’s say the difference between meditation and hypnosis, that it’s gonna vary based on the style of meditation for one.
Correct. But specifically, I think, If pulling in one of these modalities that’s a perfect fit. It’s that of mindfulness and there’s so much amazing research that backs it up in terms of the efficacy of it. What can be done with it. And I’d share with you just simply my perspective of it to point out with a client that if we’re dealing with emotions, if we’re dealing with challenges, things such as stress, anger, frustration, guilt, these are all feelings that are.
In that position, looking backwards at the past, if we’re working with fears, apprehensions, worries, or anxieties, these are feelings looking towards the future, but to simply associate them into this moment right now, as you’re aware of the shoes on your feet, as you’re aware of the clock ticking in this room as you’re mindful of this specific, Those things can’t exist right now and just opening up that door that they really do have much more control over how they feel than they thought possible.
I think there’s a difference here. Yes. The kind of meditation I do, bpaa is utterly about releasing control. Mm-hmm. . So there are different, my teacher shins and young teachers, different ways to focus. But remember, mindfulness is not just about paying attention. It’s paying attention with sensory clarity so you know exactly what’s going on, and then it’s equanimity allowing the flow of sensation to occur without trying to fight it and without trying to recreate it or change it.
Now you can also cultivate positive feelings. This is the Buddhist practice of meta, so I think one of the differences. Is often meditation can have an outward focus. What I find most comforting is to focus ex shinon calls it anchoring out to focus on the feeling of my bottom on the cushion, and then to anchor out and listen to external sound and find those moments when sound and the feeling in my physical sensation merge into one.
And when they d. And also when thought comes up, not to try to change it, but to notice the moment the thought disappears, cuz that moment of gone has a different kind of piece to it. So I really think they’re working in, in a different level. Uh, Pasa does not attempt to program in new behaviors. You know?
Yes. The first few months you’re sitting, you can absolutely create a container at peace and then deal with other things. But I think one of the key distinctions. First of all, there may be different brain white patterns. I don’t know. I know my teacher and his senior students participated in some medical studies to look to see what was going on with their brain white patterns and getting into the science of it.
I know Ernie Rossi wrote a book on gene expression on psychobiology of mind body healing, that there’s gene expression that takes place when you do trans. I don’t know what kind of gene expression, if at all, takes place through mindfulness, but I think it’s a different approach. It’s not to say they can’t be complimentary, but I think it, it, it truly is a different approach and the end goal of mindfulness, as I see it, is not necessarily to program in new behaviors.
They come as a result of being less driven and being less fixated. But I think it’s to address the big s you know, I think hypnosis addresses the suffering of life with a small. Someone has a headache, someone has a phobia, someone believes they can achieve a goal. It’s extremely worthwhile, but it doesn’t address the big S, the suffering that’s inherently part of life, that things are, Im permanent, that we’re going to lose things, that things change, that we don’t want to change, that we get pleasure and we tighten around it so it doesn’t bring satisfaction.
Theon that addresses that. And I’ve seen people who are really driven to achieve their goals, but then when their. They reach them, it destroys them that they turn manic or psychotic. So I think the poss is a good . It’s a good way to begin to chip away at that drivenness and that fixation. And the poisons that we psychology talks about.
The glaciers, the poisons, greed, anger, hate, drivenness, fixation. Craving aversion. Sure. Hypnosis will address cravings like cravings for a cigarette. It’ll address aversions when it deals with phobia, but it doesn’t address the overall problem. What are you gonna do about all cravings? What are you gonna do about all aversions?
What? Not just what are you gonna do about this fear, but what are you gonna do about all fear? It’s a much longer process and a practice. Now, they’re both very, very valuable, but I think they’re, they’re different. Where they intersect, of course, is the altered states of consciousness, although, let me jump in there for a second.
Would you say that, it’s a bit of a generalization to say that hypnosis doesn’t do that where hypnosis is the tool, but let’s say a practitioner with skills in both of these modalities, bringing in the themes, bringing in the concepts, could then do that in hyp. as a concept. Yes, but there you go.
Conceptually, yes. But when you meditation, I think literally rewires the neurology. Uh, my teacher would explain it like this, that on a subtle level, we, as soon as pleasure arrives, arises, we grasp around it. It’s, it’s evolution. As soon as pain occurs, Tighten against it. It’s why hardwired into the neurology, and I don’t think hypnosis really addresses the craving with a big C and the aversion with a big A.
Mm-hmm. . I don’t think hypnosis itself can make people more compassionate and more wise, uh, perhaps it can, I don’t know if anyone’s ever come to you and said, You know, Jason, I want to be more compassionate with people in my life. I want to be. Someone came to you and said, I would like to be wiser. What do you do?
I can tell you this, and maybe this is due to my own personality, quirks and disturbances, and we all have . I would consider myself a wounded healer and a clown. Uh, a trickster and a sor. The example of a client coming in specifically and just saying, I’d like to be more compassionate. I’d like to be more wise.
That we’d be working on a very, sort of a surface level issue for something that needs to be much more deep surface in terms of what they’re consciously and unconsciously becoming aware of in the world around them. Yes, and I think that’s a, that the pasta is a terrific tool for doing that. Now, if someone came to me and said, You know, I’m, I don’t think Vipasana is a good tool for relieving trauma.
It just takes too long, and it’s not a good tool for relieving a. Compulsion. If you have a compulsion like overeating it, it’s a lot of work to deal with that. I would much rather turn to something either like hypnosis or this, uh, trauma release exercise modality, because generally speaking, people are far more traumatized.
And I don’t just mean the mental imagery and the emotions, I mean the body itself. This has to do with fight flight and trees that many people, when they lived in a. A emotionally abusive environment, emotionally empty environment, or they have an alcoholic parent or whatever it is, they develop a freeze response.
They just numb out to all emotions or they come out, when they come out of freeze, they go into rage or they go into crazy behavior. People. Often this happens with veterans. They come home, they’ve been severely traumatized. So if you’re in a situation where your adrenaline is constantly running, then your sympathetic nervous system is on overdrive, and your parasympathetic nervous system can also get worn out because you’re just trying to calm yourself down.
That stuff. When you are in a situation where you’re constantly on alert or you have to fight, you can’t fight and you can’t. Because you’re trapped, you’re pinned down and or you feel emotionally you’re pinned down, or what you’re facing is too big. People have been in a fire and they don’t know what to do.
They freeze. That is stuck in the neurology from the ground up, and the guy David Burelli, I’m deeply impressed by Tre as a, as a means. Of releasing that stuff that’s actually stored in the body. It’s stored in the neurology, and it’s gotta go all the way down to the brain stem. Through doing these exercises, he creates neurogenic tremors through tremors that are coming from the brain stem.
And I’ve talked to people, said, Look, 3, 4, 5 months of doing this, my PTSD is gone where other modalities don’t work. Now here’s what’s interesting to me, and I asked Dr. Belli this, How do you explain the fact. Other modalities work. Some people can do EMDR and it works. He said, You know, I really don’t know.
Maybe somehow it’s addressing, um, it’s disconnecting the what’s going on in the body from the story he didn’t know. I find it a helo. It’s fascinating how all kinds of modalities can work. Yeah, it’s a matter of the practitioner putting in the right tools at the right time and just it’s that interaction as well.
I, I’d be curious to ask you a question from an outside perspective for a moment though. Sure. Would you say this has been an evolution of all the work that you’ve done coming up to this point now, is this a side that’s always been there that we’re hearing a very different side perhaps that I’m, I’m loving.
Well, it’s always been there, but I had my own disturbances, so I was not able to develop it to the point where I’d like to. And so, you know, what happened to me is I went through some, I don’t know what triggered the trauma. I went through two and a half years of not sleeping and had, you know, I don’t like to call it a nervous breakdown, but a nervous breakthrough.
And I began to look at these various different things and now I’m far, far from the path of the guild. I think the, the missing link will be this trauma release stuff. Many people have said that it is, so it evolved from that. And also, you know, as you get older, you can think is do I want to continue doing what I was doing?
Yeah. That for the most part, your, your focus has been shifting in recent years, hasn’t it? Yes, and I’m also teaching persuasion courses. I actually have a free persuasion course if you’re interested in that. If you go to ross jeffries live.com/course. That’s Ross Jeffrey’s live.com/course. You can pick that up, but also if you’re interested, just interested in having me on your podcast or speak to your group or, or at your event, just go to ross jeffrey live.com.
Uh, j e f f r i e s. If you go to ross jeffs live.com, that will tell you about how to book me as a speaker, and if you go to ross jeffs live.com/course, you can get the free video. It’s a video training on persuasion. You can do both. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. And work smart hypnosis.com.
Hey, it’s Jason Lynette with one last quick thing. Imagine yourself running an even better hypnosis business just in the next 10 days. Head over to work smart hypnosis.com and check out the 10 day Hypnosis Business Challenge. It’s 10 days of emails. 10 days of videos, 10 days of specific action steps with tested techniques to help you to grow your hypnosis business.
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