Podcast Session #381 – Misha Tuesday on Mystic Hypnosis

Misha Tuesday is the founder of Hypno-Energize where he aims to bridge the gap between scientific and spiritual methods of self-improvement. His transformational coaching sessions draw from his training in hypnosis and NLP as well as his work and exploration of Western and Eastern metaphysical traditions. He is also the creator of ActiveTarot, a unique method of Tarot readings that incorporates his Whole Brain approach to turn fortune-telling into a future-creating exercise. As a life-long enthusiast of all things mystical, magical, and metaphysical, Misha was initiated into Shamanism at the age of 18, studied hypnosis with Mike Mandel, and has repeatedly presented on the world’s largest hypnosis conference stage, HypnoThoughts Live.

Misha joins me today to share what he believes are the key differences between magic and mentalism. We discuss his passion for bridging the gap between scientific and spiritual methods of self-improvement and why he believes scientific methods and theories are not the only answer to certain questions or situation. We discuss how he blends hypnosis strategies with Tarot readings and why he believes it’s important to establish an ‘opening ceremony’ at Tarot readings. We discuss the relationship between building rapport with your clients and the quality of change produced in your hypnosis sessions. We also discuss how hypnosis professionals can benefit from incorporating Tarot card readings into their hypnosis practices.

Want more like this? Discover how to help more people and run a thriving hypnosis business at https://HypnoticBusinessSystems.com/

“Whether or not you believe in magic – you can make it happen by choosing to connect to it.” – Misha Tuesday

  • Misha’s introduction to hypnosis
  • Switching from magic to mentalism
  • Bridging the gap between scientism, mentalism, and magic
  • How Misha defines the term ‘mystic’
  • Blending hypnosis with spiritual methods when working with clients
  • The value of starting a Tarot reading with an ‘opening ceremony’
  • Non-verbal queues of stress, tension, and nervousness that can ‘show up’ in a session
  • Comparing your quality of rapport with your client versus the quality of the change work you produce
  • Understanding the Softer Side and Psychological Side principles and how they apply to more than just mentalism
  • Misha’s definition of mentalism
  • The benefits of Tarot readings as a hypnotist

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Podcast Episode Transcripts:

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.


This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 381 Miesha Tuesday on Mystic Hypnosis. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Generalize. I’ve gotta tell you the word generalized has gotta be one of my favorite words, and I mean that not necessarily in the context of the professional hypnotist who positions themselves as a generalist, where other people would say, you should niche down and work on one very specific thing.

Well, first of all, most of the people that you and I would know that are known for a specific niche actually will often end up working with most everything else. I will very openly say the majority of my promotion these days is either for stop smoking hypnosis or for working with entrepreneurs who have a fear of putting themselves out there.

It comes around to a different flavor of imposter syndrome, a different flavor of. Public speaking fears, yet still, as I say that, I’m currently working with a professional hockey player, a baseball player, a couple of weight loss clients, so clearly other things come in and I bring up the word generalize, not in that context in terms of what and who you work with yet.

It’s the word generalize as it applies to how we can take our knowledge. And expand it out beyond its original intention, which is the frame I’ll give you for this conversation you’re about to listen to with Misha Tuesday and myself, I’ve known Misha for a number of years now by way of the hypno thoughts live conference.

And like many of us, you know, being best friends on Facebook because you would not click friend unless that person was like your bff, diehard that you would do anything in the world for, And I say that of course for all, I believe 4,923 of you I’m connected with on. Facebook there, but it’s this appreciation that he and I kind of began in a slightly similar way with a interest around magic as well as then mentalism.

And it’s something that by my own choices I kind of left behind. And I will say there’s a appropriate, uh, logging list as I listen to this conversation that you’re about to hear with Miesha as to how he has artfully blended the worlds together. Whatever opinions you may have around anything of a metaphysical or mystic or even things involving TA or intuition, when you hear the way that Miesha talks about it in this conversation, it’s really eyeopening the way that he references at one point.

Here’s how the TE is in one world, this very specific thing. But at the same time, and I love this series of words, it’s a library of metaphors and how it becomes a roar shack and this insight in the conversation around stop doing hypnosis and instead. Start to evoke out of the person, what does that mean to you?

So inside of this conversation, you’re gonna hear how it began of, you know, the usual route of doing seances when you’re six years old, you know? Like you do to then this journey of magic and then mentalism, and then how that led to hypnosis and really how that led to a discovery that as one of my favorite talking points, how he was already doing hypnosis, but then learned how to do it on purpose.

So even if some of these topics are not necessarily your focus or your interest, I would say let that be every reason to listen to this entire convers. Even sooner because the ability that Miesha has, even in the final moments of this chat, to generalize it out to other topics, whether it’s the transitions we make in our techniques, the quality of rapport and a therapeutic process, the way that these same principles apply over to sales.

This is one of those conversations that I like to say is about three hours of content and about 45 minutes of a. , this is content rich. There are several knowledge bombs inside of it, uh, which there’s a number of references and resources that we make in this conversation, including a really cool link that Miesha has put together with some additional resources for you to check out.

I’ll make it easy for you. This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. This is episode number 381, so head over to work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 81. That will bring you over to the show notes for this specific episode That will give you the links to check out Misha, whether it’s his own website or his social media profiles, but also bring you over to that very special work smart link that he’s put together a number of resources.

He’s got his stuff figured out because for those of you listening now as it first releases, he’s doing a post-conference workshop at Hypno Thoughts Live, which we’ll link to, of course, in the notes. But then if you’re listening to this after the fact, he’s gonna keep that link updated with several other resources as well.

So check out all those details. [email protected] slash 3 81. And while you’re there, check out hypnotic business systems.com. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. There’s no need to have to invent from scratch. As much as I would like to say business is business, what we do is clearly a wacky little category that most people don’t have a lot of knowledge around.

So this is where as much as, yes, on my other. Educational company of influence for premium sales. We have a more generalized program that goes out specifically around the psychology of sales and the ethical influence and persuasion. It’s why still we keep up to date a program called Hypnotic Business Systems, which used to be tell you what to do.

Then it became, show you how to do it, and now it’s kind of morphed instead to. give you the assets to get up and running, and I’m now laughing as I’m realizing I’m talking about hypnotic business systems. Um, on the episode here with Misha that I believe I may have the sequence of this slightly off, it was at a hypno thoughts a number of years ago that if I remember it right, they do a raffle there.

And people will often buy a whole bunch of raffle tickets and, you know, buy all the raffle tickets and put them into the pot to win one specific thing. And someone actually won it for hypnotic business systems and Miesha comes over and it was clear that he wanted to win it. And he says to the person at my booth, I will pay you to win the prize from you.

I. and I instead gave a much more discounted offer or some sort of courtesy thing, just, just cuz you had the guts to do that game on. Um, so as I’m looking Yeah, he’s inside of that program too. , Yeah. Again, strategies that you can use to grow your business. And I’ll tell you where the rubber really, you know, hits the road, if that’s the right metaphor to use here, Uh, which would be that my backstory.

You know, hitting the pavement, going out there and doing so many networking events, which yes, I do say they still absolutely work, but that’s the place where I got my messaging down to explain hypnosis in a way that didn’t confuse people to explain hypnosis in a way that the general public went, I know what that is now.

I need that. Sign me up. And the lineage is, that’s then the content that became the videos on my website, and I give you the full transcripts of those videos to model. So rather than having to guess at the words that we say, this is about getting you up and running even sooner. Simply booking one or two clients with the systems that I share with you will help you recoup your investment and so much more.

Check that out. Watch the video tour right now at Hypnotic Business. Dot com. And with that, let’s dive directly in with this Content Rich episode, Three Hours of Data in a 45 minute chat. And be sure to check out the show notes on this one, because Miesha has been extremely generous, uh, with the resources he’s sharing.

And if you can make it check out his post-conference at Hypno Thoughts Live this year. So here we go. Session number 381. Miesha Tuesday on Mystic Hypnosis.

I believe I picked up a pamphlet on stage hypnosis from a magic store, but I dismissed it immediately because, uh, it said save this confidently and it will happen. And as, do you know the, do you know the name of the book at any chance? I don’t remember that. It was a, it was one of those pamphlets that’s like a piece of card stock and a couple of mimeograph pages stapled in the center unfolded.

No, cuz I’m, I’m asking because that’s in part my origin story as well. Except I explicitly remember the phrase of memorize these words because that will. Uh, the magic word angle. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember this one saying, the hypnotist appearance must be presentable. That’s a particular phrase that I remember from when they’re talking about how you have to.

Form rapport. They were saying you have to, like, your nails need to be trimmed and your hair needs to be washed. That kind of thing. Almost back to the times of the JB Bobo Magic books on coins, Borrow a top Hat from a gentleman in the audience. , right? . So you, you mentioned getting that book and then kind of dismissing it.

So what would it be that kind of brought you back to it then? Yeah, I, well, as a magician, I was looking for, what’s the trick? So here’s the effect. You know, you say it and they do it, but I kept paging through it like, well, but where’s the trick that makes it work? And I, you know, I, I. I thought I had gotten ripped off for $2 or whatever the pamphlet was.

Yeah, so the real entry point, which I didn’t realize at the time, was when I learned how to do pass life regressions, which I was, you know, in college interested in people who smoked joints and had crystals. And that was the first time I kind of encountered the new age kind of side of life. And I learned to do passively progression from someone that started with a progressive muscle relax.

Yeah, I didn’t, it nothing, it said nothing about hypnosis. I didn’t think of it as hypnosis, but that was just taught as the process that you get someone to remember their past lives. It wasn’t until many years later, uh, that I was listening to, uh, Mike Mendel’s Brain Software podcast and. . I started listening to it for the magic tricks because in a couple of the early episode he talks about, like, there’s a card trick he teaches and he, you know, talks about some of his mentalism stuff.

So I had heard about the podcast from a magician friend, started listening for the tricks and it rekindled this interest I had had in hypnosis. Um, So I went to, I went to train with him in Toronto, and it was only at that point that I realized, holy moly, are we allowed to swear on this? Have you had listed tears on the show?

That’s the, uh, sequence of asking it. Uh, many have, yes. Okay. Well, anyhow, um, I went to, I went to study with him in Toronto and that’s when I realized, holy shit. This thing that I’ve been doing for 30 years this past, my progression is actually a hypnotic conduction. Uh, so I, I’ve been doing it for a very long time, Didn’t know I was doing it until, uh, you know, eight, eight years ago.

Mm-hmm. , that, that’s one of my favorite things about, you know, being involved on both the practitioner side as well as the instructor side. These. These epiphanies as to, Oh, I’ve already been doing this and just now I can do it on purpose and I can do it better then. Mm-hmm. and it, it was kind of like a, almost a mysterious progression because I had already switched from magic to mentalism.

Because, and I’ll give you a key, one of my key thoughts about magic versus mentalism. Uh, some people think mentalism is just a branch of stage magic in which the effects are all themed as mind reading. I think that magic and mentalism have a common history, but they are now different arts. Mm-hmm. and there’s, there’s much contention about this in the, the magic and mentalism communities.

But, um, I switched from magic to mentalism because magic, it’s about the tricks. It’s about the gizmos and the secret. You know, slate a hand in the way that you make the thing work. Taa, look at these, you know, these crazy things that I can do. Whereas Mentalism, maybe not always is, but in my mind, should be more about making a connection with people and inspiring people to have amazing experiences, which ties right into hypnosis because in my mentalism show, A lot of it is suggestion and a lot of it is rapport and a lot of it is making that connection.

So whereas the, there are some secrets, you know, trickery that makes the big punchlines happen, but that’s not the focus of the show. The focus is. The meaning and the connection and the experiences that you can give people. Uh, so I had already moved into that when I started listening to Brain Software.

It was just a natural progression for me to learn more about hypnosis because I was already, um, in the mindset of, uh, connecting to people and, and sharing experiences with. Yeah, and I’d share, I forget if you’d have actually had this conversation before, but that’s very similar to my journey that began with the fascination around like magic and slight of hand.

And then it felt as if there was always having to be this exposition. Um, and here I have this prop and here I have that prop. Um, and I still live by the phrase, don’t run when you’re not being chased, which is love that one thing in that world as to, I have here an ordinary pack of cards. If you say that, no, they’re not , you cast the suspicion on it right away, but it’s instead where, Here came the mentalism side where it’s like, okay, so this is getting more to be about communication and yet there was still, and none of this is meant to diminish any of it.

It was just my take on it and what was not aligning with me as to this is now about the communication. And yes, there may be a, I guess I could say secret as to how one part of this works. , it really came around to exactly what you just said, the connection, the way that we can facilitate that journey from how the information is revealed.

And still there was this personal dissatisfaction that then suddenly I saw at the stage hypnosis show and went, There it is. Mm-hmm. , it’s just communication and like you said, there’s no trick to it. Um. It felt like a trick, the first show that I saw, because he went off microphone to do the induction, and then every show I’ve seen since then, they stayed on Mike and it’s like, Oh wait, that doesn’t have to be that way.

Um, h how would you define it? Because this is a story that pops up here pretty frequently of people who kind of have gone this similar route, uh, from one performance thing to another performance thing, to something that now. Also has a, let’s say, healing property to it. Yeah, that’s a good way to say it, because I kind of, I kind of was living in two worlds.

I had the, the magic career where I was doing tricks in front of audiences, but I also from a very young age, have always been very mystically minded, and I should take a sidebar to say. I’m by nature, very skeptical and rational, and when something happens, I question it. I want to examine, is this real? Is this, you know, a bias or something?

But I’ve always been very. Interested in, uh, the mystical kind of side of life? Uh, you know, I, I, I started reading terror cards when I was very young. I started conducting seance when I was probably six and, and I didn’t come from, like my family, wait, six. Six. Awesome. Yeah, my family doesn’t understand where any of this stuff came from.

My family are farmers. They’re, you know, socially conservative. Uh, they’re, they’re not MyAlly minded at all. So where did it come from? I don’t know, but I kind of had these two sides. That I felt were separate things, that I do this, you know, kind of magic stuff. I’m also interested in TA and meditation and yoga, and when I formally trained in hypnosis, that it brought everything together.

Mm-hmm. , because I’m like, Oh, it’s about consciousness, it’s about experience, it’s about communication. And that, that is why I, I started si myself as the mystic hypnotist because prior to this revelation, I was trying to keep them separate. Well, I don’t want my hypnosis clients to know that. I read ta. and I don’t want my TA clients to know that, you know, I have this other thing going on and.

It was actually in a mastermind that I did with James Trip. Mm-hmm. where he, he said one as he’s wanted to do. Yeah. Said one key little thing that made me just have this Aha. It is the same thing and I’ve been artificially trying to keep it separate, so I am very much, um, You know, in the middle, and I try to push people to the middle.

When I talk to people, you know, I go to new age, um, festivals where people are selling crystals, People are doing mediumship, and I’m doing terra except it’s actually hypnotic coaching. I’m using the TA as a tool, and if people are very incredulous of every, everything that they’ve heard in the new age community, I’m trying to push them a little bit to question it somewhat.

get a little bit, you could have a little bit of rationality in your intuition that wouldn’t hurt you. On the other hand, when I’m talking to people who are purely scientific minded, I try to get them to open up a little bit. Mm-hmm. , there is a lot of mystery in the universe. There is a lot of stuff that we don’t understand and perhaps will never understand.

Um, so I’m, I also. Against SM as much as I am against a hundred percent Credly, and I should say I’m not against science, uh, SM is the idea of science as a worldview. That thinks that, you know, we’ve either figured everything out or the things that we don’t know given enough time, we will figure out that this, despite the fact that physicists say that, well, 90% of the universe must be dark matter and dark energy.

That’s the only way, ma uh, the math works well. What is dark matter and dark energy? We don’t have any idea, but we have to put that in the equation, or the equations don’t work. There’s so much mystery. That we, we don’t and possibly can’t understand that. I think it’s unwise to narrow in on, on reason and, and m as you know, a one and only, and that was a bit of a tangent.

I, I realize. No, I love that because, well, It, it’s where, you know, I would always say that as we work with our clients, it’s in one part our responsibility to become the chameleon because their belief systems are the ones that matter into the process. Uh, I will make this next anecdote extremely general for obvious purposes.

Mm-hmm. , but I was one time traveling and had a layover flight somewhere, and I found out someone was doing a hypnosis training that day. So, Coordinated the 14 hour layover, Uhhuh to then leave the airport, go to this one day training and then go back to the airport and continue my flight. And I, I slipped because, and this is no commentary on the specific faith, cuz I’m sure you could trade it out for another one and another person as well.

But I go, well I heard about someone in this specific area who got in trouble. Because they were in a predominantly Jewish community and they were bringing a lot of teaching of Jesus Christ into their sessions. And the parents were appropriately getting upset because one, that wasn’t their belief system.

And two, it’s not why they brought their kid to you. And I know it was a story a number of years ago, and the person in front of me goes, And I mean, without blinking an eye, not realizing that I was telling a critical story goes, Oh, that was me. . Oh dear , um, George Carlin reduced the 10 Commandments down to one.

Uh, OU Shall I’ll keep that religion to th himself. Um, and OU shall try really. Hard to be loving and faithful, uh, . But I, I go to even my personal background where half the family was Southern Baptist, the other half were, uh, either Russian and or Polish Jews, which right there, that’s enough to. Be a whole book, apparently,

Um, and, and kind of to what you said about, you know, this sort of polarized either absolute this way, absolute that way, uh, I saw the gears turn one time when I said to a friend, You’ve let your atheism reach a level that might as well be another religion. It’s like you’re gathering at weekly meetings and discussing this, and tell me how on the surface, um, Eddie Ard was the one who had the thing about disorganized religion.

I can get behind that, uh, , where to gather sometime. What are we talking about? But I, I bring mine to a place of, there’s a new word that gets attached to it of. Curious, apathetic, agnosticism, um, which is, how can you prove either direction? And there are places where we can get to a place of absolute beliefs.

So like how would you kind of define then where it all comes together, where, you know, not necessarily the absolute one direction or the other? Um, I can be extremely scientific, but then again, Given the current research mm-hmm. , there’s a, there’s a podcast episode many years ago with Greg Paulik talking about, uh, neuroscience and research.

And even he was riffing on the documentary, What the bleep do we know? And. Saying that everything in that documentary needs to have the preframe of, given the current research, research now suggests, because a couple, a hundred years ago, the best research said that blood lettings were pretty good. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. The, the, the. The necessity of revise consistently and constantly revising models as more data becomes available is one of the foundations of science. Right? And that’s one of the problems with m is that people accept it as a worldview. And this stuff that we have figured out is exactly the way it is, and it’s never gonna change.

And you get, you get frozen in a point in time. It’s the same problem that I have with, um, scriptures of, of any kind people who have a, a holy writing. That they, they take inflexibly as the one final eternal word of, of whatever being or, or force that, that’s, that’s a snapshot of a moment in time. That’s a snapshot of a mystic experience, and for many of them, I think that it was a genuine mystic experience, maybe by a, a powerful individual or maybe by a group of people.

But scriptures come from these. Intuitive apprehensions that people get about reality and the nature of consciousness and the nature of the universe, or even how, how, just how we should treat each other. But then they write it down in the terms of that time and in that worldview. So I, you know, I believe that.

Uh, you know, any kind of religious sentiment, which is I think a human universal, It’s necessary to the human condition that we have these, uh, experiences of wonder and awe and amazement at the universe. But I think when you try to write it down and say, This is the thing, and that can’t be changed, that’s where you’re run into trouble.

And in my show, I, Cause I call myself a mystic. I, My title is the Mystic Hypnotist, and so in my show, I define it as, this doesn’t mean that I believe all kinds of things that you don’t believe. To me, a mystic is someone who asks big questions but doesn’t get stuck on any one answer. I like that. I like that.

Then, so then how would you define then how it all comes together? Where you mentioned that the hypnosis kind of was this bridge in the middle that brought the two worlds together in a way that it wasn’t this versus that became instead this and. Yeah. Uh, because reason is only one of the tools in our toolbox, uh, I think people really focus on, Some people really get fixated on because reason is a really good tool.

I can’t listen to my emotions. I can’t listen to intuition that’s just quote unquote cognitive bias. You know? And Reason is a great tool. But it’s not the only tool we have. Uh, so that’s where it comes together for me in that all I know for sure is that I am aware and I am having an experience. And if I can share that with other people, uh, and influence that, because we’re all influencing each other’s consciousness, uh, you know, all languages, somewhat hypnotic, because if you weren’t trying to change someone’s consciousness, you wouldn’t even have to speak.

Mm-hmm. . I really come back to the idea of, of being in the middle. Uh, if I, if I get too, you know, rational to the, to the sense of like dismissing my own mystic experiences or dismissing, Oh, I’m just, I shouldn’t be so emotional or, you know, intuition isn’t real. If I find myself going in that direction, I wanna try to lean back more into the, the softer side, um, like yin and.

You know, when you get too forceful, sometimes you gotta get a little soft. When you get too soft sometimes you gotta get a little, uh, more, more directive. And it’s, it’s a dance to me. Balance isn’t just sitting in the middle. It’s kind of moving around through and between and, and watching them blend and shift, you know, And there are, there are times when.

you know, the mystic state is on the ascendancy, and I, I just let my rational mind, you know, take a chair over in the side. I can’t, I can never turn off my critical faculty completely, but I can let it sit in a chair over on the side and just watch for a while. Yeah. You know? So. So then talk to me about how that then bridges the gap, because I know, you know, that leads then from, here’s something that’s performance to now working with a client one to one.

Talk, talk about that transition, that approach. Okay. Yeah. I, I don’t do a ton of change work. Mm-hmm. , um, I do, I do more coaching, like group coaching than I do, uh, one-on-one change work, which I swoop in and say, that’s change work, but keep going, . Okay. I don’t do, I don’t do a whole lot of one-on-one work.

Yeah. But when I’m, Okay. I’ll give you an example. When I, uh, do. Psychic Fair. Uh, I was recently at the Gypsy Goddess Festival in Michigan, which was the largest psychic fair in Michigan. Was invited, uh, I, I hadn’t heard of it, but I was invited to be a speaker there and I went there and I was given a booth and I, you know, had TA cards cuz that’s, I thought that’s what would go, I actually ended up doing more.

Hypno energized sessions, which is what I call my one-on-one change work because I, I also, well, I bring a lot of NLP into it, but it presented, especially at a psychic fair as, uh, energy reiki, you know, shock balancing, whatever they’re into. I can theme it to that, but I bring my TA cards. Um, and it is very, there’s a very performative aspect to terra cards, uh, especially, you know, A lot of other readers probably don’t do it this way.

Uh, and I, I actually teach a class for readers on how to amp up the performance side because if people are coming to you for reading, they wanna have an experience. And I can give you tools from the mentalism world that will allow you even, even though what you’re doing is already valuable and already genuine.

You can add to it to just turn up the volume and make, make that impact greater for your, for your, uh, client or your queer, your sitter. Yeah. Can you, can you give an example of that, of how that performance aspect amplifies it, but also brings in some of the hypnotic components? Yeah. One of the things that I recommend, and some readers do this, uh, I always recommend doing an opening ceremony of some kind, even if it’s just.

Okay, sit down, take a breath with me, and let that breath out, and let a warm wave of comfort flow from the top of your head all the way down your body. That sounds familiar. And now you write . So before you, like some readers, you sit down and they just immediately start shuffling the cards. . Um, you know, there gotta, has to be a little foreplay if you’ll forgive the, the seat.

Yeah. Uh, you have them sit down, ask them their name, Chi, chat with them for a moment. Now we’re gonna change things. I’m not gonna pick up the cards right away. I’m gonna, I’m talking to you. I’m connecting to you. I will have you take a breath or, you know, some readers wanna light candles and say a prayer, Whatever you wanna do to give that.

Um, Changing from Cronos to chiros, if you know the Greek terms, Kronos being normal, mundane time, and chiros being sacred time. We’re shifting gears here. This isn’t just you come sit down, I talk about the cards and you know, and then you go on your way. We’re having a moment here. We’re having a a, a profound, hopefully a profound experience.

So I’m gonna shift our gears. Into that before I even get out the card to talk about them. And, uh, just a couple weeks ago, my wife wanted a reading for something. Uh, she was having a, you know, a career, uh, question that she wanted to get some insight and not, not to say that the terra cards are gonna tell her what to do, but of course, terra cards can also be used as a shock test to get.

You know, thinking in a different way or accessing resources in a different way. So she says to me while we’re cooking dinner, Hey, can you do a quick reading? I’m like, Okay, we’ll do it. You know, tonight after the kids are in bed. She’s like, No, no, no. Just do it right now while the rice is cooking. I’m like, No.

You know how that’s not how I do things. Yeah. Because that, that doesn’t give us the opportunity to shift into that chiros, that sacred time, so that, you know, I bring that performance side to it. And when I am in a, uh, Performance setting. I will do a lot of rapport and connection and, and one thing that not every mentalist has its experience, but a lot do, even the ones that are very skeptical, you start doing mentalism.

You start going around saying, I can read your mind. You start connecting with people. You start finding that things pop into your mind and you say them and they’re accurate and you have no, There was no trick. I didn’t have a, you know, a gizmo. Somehow got this information. I just was talking to this person and I had an intuitive insight and I took a chance and I said it, and it was real.

And sometimes you get the best hits of your career by trusting your intuition. Um, and people who know cold reading will say, Well, yes, you can say a bunch of things and the good ones will stick. But it’s a real different feeling when, when it happens to you. At least it is for me. So when I’m doing a show, it’s not all just.

Slight a hand and, and carnival tricks. I’m connecting with people. I’m cognizant of, of the feel, you know, my feeling, my energy. You know, connecting with theirs and there’s, you know, you can explain it from a, a psychological viewpoint or you could explain it from a, a metaphysical energy standpoint. To me, those are just ways you’re explaining it to yourself.

The experience is real. And that’s probably the, the, the crux of how that, those two sides connect for me. I don’t have to. Put, I mean, I can put a frame on it in the moment to communicate it, but I don’t have to accept that frame as the, the, the total capital T truth. I love what you said a moment ago about letting it become almost like a roach test.

That it’s, you know, I, I, I always go around to how I can be upon in a hypnosis training, telling the students stop doing hypnosis, which is what really they want to hear in a hypnosis training. Um, but it’s the difference between, Just simply asking the question and what does that mean to you? What does that give you?

What does that create for you? Versus you can now feel that confidence flowing up your spine going . Yeah, I get it from them. Get it from them. Yeah. Yeah. So it, it’s pulling that out and creating that more, let’s say, integrative experience and that’s what’s going to, you know, guide us in the right direction.

And I can, you know, back to when I was involved in those, uh, worlds of like magic and mentalism too. Yes. There might have been. A way that I could tell the word that you were thinking of. Yes. There was a secret that made that happen. Um, the part that I couldn’t explain was, okay, take all those letters in that word, shuffle them around, focus on one of them, and just letter by letter reveal it.

Mm-hmm. , which was even me going, What’s the technique? How am I, Okay. This is weird. . Yeah. Some of the, some of the best mentalism techniques are. as real as it gets. Like there’s one, um, I don’t, I can’t reveal anything really in this format. Right? Yeah. But, um, there’s a lot of effects where. It’s about a process, about a listening and experience in someone.

And, and they don’t, these kind of effects aren’t a hundred percent, You don’t get a hundred percent success every time, which magicians, that’s what magicians don’t like about letting themselves step in fully into the, you know, what I consider the truth of mentalism, which is just sharing experiences and sharing, uh, you know, intuitive, uh, processes.

Well, you mentioned, you mentioned earlier the. Performance side of it and specifically that transition. And this is where like in, in the first two offices that I had when I was in Virginia, there was an easy ability to have, you know, from the theater background, a scene change. where it was, okay, I stood up, I turned off the main light.

There was still enough light in the room, and no, it’s not because we needed dim lights for the hypnosis to be effective, but it was that clear transition that now we’re beginning when anyone who’s listening to this likely already knows the entire process is about hypnotic suggestion. And you’re, you’re familiar with, uh, Todd Robbins?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And Todd Robbins did a show, I’m trying to remember the name called Play Dead. It was a seance directed by teller from Pen and Teller. Jump in if I’m getting any of the nuances wrong, and there was one, and not to reveal the entire performance, but there was an artistry to how he would draw that line of doing the disclaimer where basically he got away with doing the entire performance under the frame of before we get started.

And there’s so much that we can do by utilizing, Here’s where the transition occurs. Now we’re beginning the hypnotic process. Yet really we’ve been. Priming and framing that result ever since the beginning. And, um, credit of course to, I’m always blanking on his name. Lance Baker popped into my Lance Baker.

Yeah. The, the magic of, and my version of it is, Hey, do I have your permission for things to get appropriately weird today? As long as it works. Yeah. And, and just that little transition of, clearly, this is now where we’re beginning. Mm-hmm. , and, and I appreciate what you said about the, you know, difference between if it’s ta.

Shelf of the cards, let’s begin versus now here’s this ritual that officially begins the process. Right? Uh, yeah. And I think that one of the best things that you can do with people is go into trans yourself. And a lot of hypnotists, you know, a lot of trainers teach this. You go first if you’re all hyped up and a little bit nervous and trying to focus on the right words to say, and you’re getting tense and you’re talking, you’re, you know, sit down and like, follow this.

You know, I’m, I’m exaggerating obviously, for effect, but if you have that tension and that worry about what’s gonna happen, that comes across nonverbally. You know, you, if you sit down and, and see them as though they’re already hypnotized, cuz. If you did, if you did it right, by the time they get in a chair with you, they are already halfway.

Um, you see them as hy, I see them as, as the person who has the changes they want. And then, you know, this is, this is just the, the ritual that we’re gonna do to convince you of it. But I know that it’s already happened. That attitude is gonna get better results. And even if you look at research on talk therapy, the biggest predictor of success in, in, uh, like psychotherapy is the client liking the practitioner.

Doesn’t matter whether they use C B T or Reiki organ Therapy or Freudian analysis, youngian it. The technique they use doesn’t matter. If you like your therapist, you and you stick with them, you’re probably gonna get good results. And that’s that. That’s one. Another one of those things that’s not really explainable because they have research had, they have research on CBT and know how and and why it works, and they have research on.

You know, reiki and therapy, which has been largely discounted, but if someone really has a rapport with you and you use Ree in therapy, you’re gonna get good results. Even though you know by the numbers, it’s not the most effective technique, but the numbers aren’t always the important thing. And the, the numbers aren’t the only thing.

I was frantically looking in my, uh, Dropbox here for a moment because, um, I referenced those in a talk that it a number of years ago. One was, I think University of Washington. One was, um, one of the Manchester universities, Bri Young University, but this quality of rapport in the room. Directly proportionate to the quality of the change that is produced, um, is something that’s often thrown around as going, Well, they’ve found this.

It’s like, well, we actually tracked down the research. Um, here we go, , I got it in front of me right now. Uh, which is you prepared? Yeah. Uh, 2001 Study Bergham University. Another one at 2015. Uh, similar study at Manchester University. It was the relationship between the practitioner and the client that most affected the positive impact of the outcome, which there’s two ways of looking at that.

One would be, be a good person and you’ll help people. Um, I would say yes and, uh, the yes and is still become world class to the techniques that you use. And this is a phrase I have to carefully use with our community sometimes of, it’s not that we’re going placebo on things that don’t work. It allows us to level up the placebo effect on things that have actually been proven to be effective.

Yeah. And, and, and like reason, uh, it’s not the only tool in our toolbox. Poor is important. It’s vital, but it’s not the only. You can’t count on that. You can’t count on placebo effect alone. But that doesn’t mean that you should discount placebo effect. And I see a lot of hypnotists who feel like they need to tell their clients.

All the true facts about everything that they’re doing, you don’t need to do. Like, you know, people have this feeling like they don’t wanna lie to people or they don’t wanna deceive people. And to me it’s, it’s, you’re, you’re putting yourself onto a false dichotomy because it’s not about what the facts are, it’s about the experience that you’re sharing with this person and the results that they want to get.

And are you willing to blur the lines if it’s gonna get them what they want? Are you willing to. Allow them to believe things that you don’t believe. If someone really believes that you’re a miracle worker, and if you just put your hands on their shoulders that it’s gonna cure them, and of course you’re gonna do the other stuff that you’ve been trained to do.

But if you’re not willing to put your hands on their shoulders because you don’t believe in that, you’re, you’re holding back a tool that that could potentially cause better change for them. So I’ll mention that this year coming up at Hypno Thoughts Live, you are doing a workshop on mentalism. Master, I think is the name.

Mentalism Mastery? Yes. It’s a one day post-conference on, uh, the day after August 1st. Uh, is it first or second? Keep forgetting. Cause I did a May one as well. I’m cheating. It’s August 1st. August 1st, Yeah. Yeah. on Mentalism Master. It’s a full day. Um, where I talk about more of the. Uh, the softer side. Um, I’m not really focusing so much on the, and there are, there is some tricks to learn.

Uh, there are some procedures. I don’t really use a whole lot of fancy gizmos. I don’t use anything electronic. I use, you know, if you know Corinda, uh, a lot of your listeners out there will know corinda. I probably don’t use anything in my show that Corrina didn’t know about. Yeah. And I still have a great.

You know, I mean, I, I could say it myself, but I also have like reviews that say my show was amazing and inspiring and whatever. So, uh, you don’t need the gi, you don’t need the fancy gizmos. You need to be able to connect with people. Um, and there are also principles, the softer side, the psychological side principles that apply to more things than just mentalism.

They help with hypnosis, they help with persuasion and sales. They help with any kind of interaction if you learn how to. Speak people’s language and connect with people, uh, you’re gonna have a good time. Well, that, that’s part of why actually I invited you on here, that you know, there’s some that would teach, you know, the mentalism and anytime here comes sales psychology using fun words.

Anytime you can be the unicorn, you’re gonna get a crowd in that world. So, you know, and I’ll keep this general cuz it’s not meant to be a slight on anybody yet. It’s where sometimes here’s the person who’s teaching something. Off the path of hypnosis in a different modality at a hypnosis conference, and suddenly that’s gonna gather a crowd because that’s the unicorn.

That’s the thing that’s different. Something that I know you and I have talked about before, and I saw it when I was looking at the descriptions here, is that it’s not just, here’s another set of tricks you can do. , it’s how, now that we understand this, here’s how we can then apply it to some of the work that you’re already doing.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And I’ll, I’ll give you my definition of mentalism. Uh, I, I say mentalism is the art of presenting psychic and mental phenomena through trickery, subtle psychology, intuition, and suggestion. So you see there, the focus is on psychic and mental phenomena. We are presenting these phenomen. , Maybe sometimes we use tricks to get there.

Maybe sometimes we’re using psychology to get there. Maybe sometimes we’re using suggestion or I believe genuine intuition. And these things do not, it, it doesn’t need to be compartmentalized. Like, well this, this one I’m using a trick. This one is suggestion. They blend together. Uh, and that’s, that’s what I teach, is the ability to present experiences, give people that sense of wonder.

Um, and even if you leave the tricks out, one of the best shows I ever did, Uh, it was like an hour long show and there were only three actual, like what you would consider a magic trick that had a, a secret behind it. The rest of it was just connecting with people using, uh, psychology and intuition and, and having just everyone having a great time just exploring the power of the mind.

Well, I, I’d go to, and I’ll leave the name out of this, but someone who I know who used to do something with just index cards and three envelopes mm-hmm. , and to watch how he would. 35, 45 minutes of performance out of this, and one time in a lecture talking about it, he goes, You know, you’re doing it right if you’ve forgotten the technique.

Mm-hmm. , the technique has become so automatic that it’s just about the interaction with the people, the performance with the people. And I, and I keep going back to something that you said earlier and really did a great job of highlighting this, this transition that even to take techniques. This is where the practitioner transcends the technique that somebody doing any method fill in the blank and let’s pick something simple, just like a direct suggestion or really indirect.

Cuz control room is more about metaphor. Mm-hmm. . And for one person it’s just they gave control room pattern for someone else, it was suddenly this magical transit. and it’s how, I mean, there’s a phrase that I’ve let slip into my hypnotic work in the recent years, which I’m like, This is the one thing that I think has made things more effective, which is the breaking of the pattern of trifa.

Try fail. Just this little interlude before I really get into the work with people sometimes around how, what would happen differently as you just go inside right now and give yourself permission to be done with a struggle and give yourself permission to just say, I’m gonna make this happen. rather than, this is another thing that might help me.

This is another thing that unfortunately might not help. Instead, you open up that door yourself and it’s a way of amplifying everything that’s about to happen. And I, and I go back to even in mentalism, um, I have seen people in that world lecture for 20 minutes on how the revelation is. As in to, to telegraphic to people who wouldn’t even know.

Here’s the person on stage perhaps who has drawn something, and then you’ve drawn something too. And the artistry of the reveal of. Hey, take a peek at it, and the audience sees the person’s smile, and already the audience is getting the intention that you’ve predicted the drawing. Mm-hmm. , um, how close was mine to yours?

And suddenly then they’re going, Wow, okay, well this part slightly different, but that’s definitely it. And the audience is not being led in on the final moment of show, both drawing side by side, but this slow revelation of information, which is just ramping up that expectation even further. . Mm-hmm. . So then bringing the worlds then together, um, we, we’ve kind of touched on Tara here.

H how would you say that becomes a useful tool to the hypnotist? Well, Tara is a very useful tool for hypnotist, even if they don’t, uh, believe in any kind of fortune telling or, uh, metaphysical whatever, because whatever else it might be. Aaro Deck is a library of metaphors. Nice. There’s symbolic pictures.

They’re all metaphorical. They’re, they’re all very loosely interpretable metaphors, so you can directly ask somebody, What do you want? What, What would you, If you’re using clean language, what would you like to have happen? But what do you want? We call it the magic question, but it’s one of the most difficult questions to answer, especially.

Ask point blank by somebody, an authority figure looking you in the eyes, you know, what do you want? It’s pressure. If you lay out some TA cards and say, Describe what you see, you are gonna learn more from that about that person in under a minute than you would through a half an hour of direct questioning.

What do you want? Yeah. You’re gonna learn what their fears are. What their struggles are, what their goals are, you know, what, what they think they’re capable of, what they think they’re not capable of. So, and that’s a, that’s a, one of the things that directly came outta my hypnosis training that changed how I do taro is now, before I say anything about a single card, I ask the client to describe the picture.

tell me what, What do you notice? What stands out to you? What seems important? And they will look at the cards and they will describe, because they think they’re just describing a picture, but they’re really giving me a metaphor that I can use later. What’s great about that is we can take what you just said and apply it to so many other different things.

Mm-hmm. . So this is often that mistake of someone who would look at something and go, It’s either this or it’s that. And instead, you know, we can look at that and go, Well, we can apply that to. Here’s the person who comes in and is, well, as we already mentioned, who’s quoting scripture? Here’s the person who’s coming in and I back to control room the time where someone walked into the office wearing the t-shirt with the TV show lost on it.

Um, and there’s so many things we can get from. What does that mean to you? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And. You know, talk about, talk about religion. Uh, you know, if people are uncomfortable with TA cards, and I encountered this when I went to, um, I went to the MidAmerica Conference in St. Louis and a lot of very religious people there.

It’s in the Bible belt and me just having TA cards on my table, people were. Avoiding me, you know? And I actually had a couple people that came to my talk that said that they were a little nervous about it cuz of their religious upbringing, but my talk changed their minds, which I was very happy to hear that this, the stuff that I do with Tara, it does, it doesn’t have to be TA specific.

If you have a. You know, some fine art trading cards that has the Mona Lisa Starry Night, The Scream, or even like, you know, sci-fi cards that have, you know, book covers on. I used to have a set of those, um, when I was a, you know, my twenties that I actually did readings with. Any image that is gonna be rich with, uh, metaphor or symbolism.

Can be used with, you know, the same techniques can be used with those. It doesn’t have to be TA cards. Yeah. If, if that’s the direction you’re going. Nice, nice. Which, uh, this is episode number 381, so a lot of the references we’ve been making will put over at the show [email protected] slash. 3 81.

Uh, I would typically at this point ask, Hey, where can people find you? But you did my favorite thing and you’ve already made a thing. Yeah, I did. . Yeah, it’s mha tuesday.com/work. Smart. And, uh, I already peaked at it and the text is the right shade of purple. So, uh, Already off to a great start here. Great.

And for the, and for the, and for the people, for your listeners who are into the marketing and they’re like, this episode’s BS and you didn’t talk about anything marketing, Um, I did tuesday.com/slash work Smart because that way I know that people that come to that page listen to this podcast and that’s how they heard about me.

So I know where my lead came from. Also, that means I can keep it updated because I know we talked about hypno thoughts. Most of the people. Listen to this episode, are gonna be listening to it after that happened in, uh, you know, the end of July, early August of 2022. So to those people, when they go to that page, they’re not gonna see me promoting hyp thoughts.

They’re gonna see me promoting what’s current, which is fantastic. I did that for years. You know, the question is always where do the people come from? Um, you know, on a call, Hey, how’d you find out about me? Mm-hmm. . Uh, which the beauty of that question though is if we look at the shape of like a sales call, typically it follows a similar route of the intake of hypnosis process where we’re gonna talk about their goals or explain what we do.

And then we set a plan, which if we’re meeting with the client, a set a plan is, let’s do the work. Yet the easiest way to transition between the. Let’s talk about your goals, and let me explain What I do is exactly that question of how’d you find out about me, which then you’ve got a very clean transition there.

Um, I would admit that I don’t ask that question often because I can tell already , but I do the same thing when I’m on a podcast to create something specific to that crowd. And that way I know where someone has come from. And, and we’ll link to all this over at the show notes, [email protected] slash 3 81.

That’ll redirect over to the show notes, and you’ll find that link. You’ll find other references and resources. Uh, this has been great and I really appreciate how I’ll, I’ll tell you where this conversation could typically go. And this is not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It’s just a thing is that sometimes it’s the.

I know a few tricks, and that’s a cool way to build rapport. I know a few cool tricks, and that’s a great way to warm up my audience before I do for my call for my volunteers. What I really appreciate in this conversation has been how you’ve applied it back to specifically the work that most of this audience listens to.

And it’s part of how, you know, I, you mentioned you go to the new age conferences is part of why I go to so many business conferences nowadays, more so than I do hypnosis events because it’s looking for, what are those? Nuances that I can bring back to the library of what I’m able to do with people.

Mm-hmm. and apply it back to the principal. And by reaching outside of the profession, becoming even more effective. And in many ways, you’ve done that work for the people. It’s where, you know, check out the links that Misha’s got to share. Um, any final thoughts for the listeners out there before we wrap it up?

I would say that whether or not you believe in magic. You can make it happen by choosing to connect to it.

Jason LEED here once again and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program and sharing it in your ongoing conversations that help to elevate this entire industry. Be sure to head over to work smart hypnosis.com/ 3 81. They could, so you can see all the detail. For this week’s episode, if you’re listening in time to learn about the workshop that Miesha is doing post-conference at Hypno Thoughts Live this year, or if you’re listening after the fact, he’s gonna keep that link active as well.

And also be sure to check out hypnotic business systems.com model what works, guessing sucks. Use the stuff that has been proven to be effective and it’s where inside of there we’re gonna help you with passive income strategies, running group programs, and how. Ethically elevate those people into more premium offers.

And again, let’s take the guesswork out of helping you to attract the right clients into your business. Watch the video tour. And the cool thing is this is not recurring membership. This is not the game where you gotta keep paying a monthly fee until either of us dies. That got dark. Instead it’s either single payment for lifetime access.

Or brief installment plan for lifetime access. That way it’s budget friendly. That way it’s not just a digital program, you still have a membership passcode to. Instead, it becomes a permanent asset for the continued growth of your hypnosis business. And if you’ve got questions, we’ve got a thriving community that’s there to support you.

Check it out. Hypnotic business systems. Dot com. If you’re listening in time, come say hi to me at Hypno. Thoughts Live. Come say hi to MHA Tuesday. Come say hi to most of the people who have been on this show over the years. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you in a bit. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.