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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Session number 424, Vinnie Brigance on the journey after the Hypnosis. Welcome to The Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Linett, your professional resource for Hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Linett. 103 episodes of the Work Smart. Hypnosis podcast later, Vinnie Brigance is back on the program once again and we’ll link to the previous episode over in the show Notes. You can find it by actually just going over to worksmarthypnosis.com/424. That’s the episode number of this one. And all the details around this week’s episode will be archived there specifically for you. And Vinnie is one of those people that I’m not going to do this introduction from the angle of he’s gone through my business content and here’s what he’s done. Because there’s enough people that are out there who are playing the game of trying to claim someone else’s success, trying to claim someone else’s brilliance. And yes, Vinnie , I just called you brilliant and comment on this when you hear it on social media, by the way, it’s the fact that Vinnie is somebody who dove headfirst into this Hypnosis profession and did a whole bunch of the right things while also changing up a number of things.
It’s where we’ve got it one of the pages for one of the programs that he’s gone through of mine, where he, up until recently, successfully ran his entire Hypnosis business without even having a website. It’s something that reminds me of a phrase that I live by and I forget who I heard say this for the first time, which is that as you’re building out a website or maybe a landing page, it’s that. You should go ahead and build it from the assumption that almost everybody is going to look at it on a mobile device because the odds are getting closer and closer that they might not even see it ever on a laptop, on a desktop computer. Remember desktop computers. I’m actually in front of one right now. My laptop’s in my bag off to the side. So we find ourselves in a different era where getting in front of an audience is one that’s very different than the strategies that were used in the past.
Now it’s, of course, as he’s launched into offering trainings and teaching, some of the methods that he’s used, whether it’s the success he’s had in short form video on platforms like TikTok and then other social media channels and specifically how he’s kind of Frankensteined and Lego pieced together, as well as pioneered many of his own methods for helping clients to quit smoking. So inside of this episode, you’re going to hear us talk about his journey over the last two years and that of growing up and scaling his business, launching into training a moment in time where burnout almost kicked inside of what he was doing and then opened up the opportunity for greater creativity. And one of the bigger takeaways inside of this episode is that of how do we increase engagement with our audience? So that now, well, they’re truly interacting with us. They’re getting into a state of motion and momentum, and they’re now more primed to officially become our clients.
There are tons of takeaways inside of this week’s episode, and you can find the show notes, you can find the links to check out Vinnie over at the page specifically for this week’s episode of the podcast. Head over to worksmarthypnosis.com/424, and that will bring you directly over to this week’s episode. And while you’re there’s no need to ever try to reinvent the wheel when it’s time to grow your hypnosis business. We launched a program about eight years ago called Hypnotic Business Systems. Now, over the years, I believe it had two different names, and as we’ve made improvements, as we’ve enhanced it evolved into something else. And then I practiced the art of what I call launching with Raving fans, which is a fancy way of saying, hey, the people who already bought this, we have upgraded some stuff and just, it’s in your library already.
And act surprised. It’s better now. So when it first came out, it was maybe a couple of dozen hours of video tutorials, mostly lecture in the format of telling you what to do. Then by listening to the audience, I started to do more of the technical type things like showing you the step by steps of things like social media marketing and search engine optimization. The things that are necessary to truly be found by your audience. And then, lucky for a lot of you, I moved away from Virginia, where I ran a business called Virginia Hypnosis for more than a dozen years. And then the program morphed once again to now become also use my stuff and launch or scale faster. It’s where I have published the real marketing campaigns, email sequences, even some of the graphics that you have as a member of Hypnotic Business Systems.
Full permission to model, duplicate, rip off, or just use as your own and slap your name on it. There’s even an entire digital product that this was the thought of it going that so many people want to have passive income streams. And is it the metaphor of breaking the seal? Is it the first cup of coffee in the morning? It’s the idea that as soon as you’ve produced one, now you’re into a sense of momentum and it’s easier to keep going. So you have full permission to duplicate one of my best selling programs and slap your name on it. I will tell you in advance, change the name. I believe I actually said that in the sort of tutorial for that section on that product, but change the name. Because if you Google it, well, of course mine shows up. But then again, so do a bunch of others who didn’t follow the instructions.
So diving into that, it’s now more than 24 individual proven business action plans. If you’re starting up, you’re going to see that the content goes in a rather particular order to guide you along the way if you’re in a scale up phase. We rebuilt Hypnotic Business Systems years ago so that now every module stands on its own, which means this is why it’s called Hypnotic Business Systems. I want to build out this and this. Focus on those two. Follow one course until successful. That’s the acronym of the word focus. And then once you’ve got those in motion, now you can launch another system. And it’s how. Here I am sitting in my home office. It’s the Monday before this episode comes out, and I’ve got my team on the attract, presale client side of my world, all in town, in Orlando here with me this week.
And I already know I’ve got client sessions lined up for next week. We’re tied up this week. So it’s that set it and forget it and build a business that grows itself over time. Check that out, get the entire tour. It’s a lifetime access with a brief installment option for payments. So it’s convenient hypnoticbusinessystems.com. And with that, let’s dive directly in. Back in the program once again, here we go. Session number 424, Vinnie Brigance on the journey after the hypnosis.
So it’s been a fantastic journey. I started off with the Smoking Cessation Clinic. I’ve helped over 500 people quit goals to get to a thousand. We’re still heading towards that. And then? Since then, I’ve opened the Organic Training or Hypnosis training center. So that’s been just through another business on top of a business. Jason, things can get a bit hectic doing that. But that’s primarily what I’ve been into.
Yeah. And I’d love to kind of kick off from this angle that your main focus is that of working with people for stopping smoking. Now, is that the only thing that you do? Is there any other attached to that?
Not entirely. I was able to build a pretty big online presence using strictly social media. And so from there, I have sent out a ton of referrals for things that aren’t smoking cessation. But that is primarily what I see people for. I’ve niched pretty heavily there.
Yeah. And just to see if the bragging rights that I love the most still stands still.
No, that I’m going to disappoint you here, Jason. As of a few months ago, I finally got for the training, I’ll take.
Yep, that’s right.
The training for the website.
Okay.
That’s it.
Yeah. I was so pumped about that.
What’s the time frame of running that business without website?
It was over three years.
Was that an intentional decision or is that something that just kind of established and went, oh, I guess I’m that guy?
Well, yeah, it did kind of fall into my lap. Here’s the thing. Everyone was saying you had to have one. And then I was like, I’ll get around to it. I’ll get around to it. But in the meantime, I need to take action. I need to start to build a market presence. Where are people? They’re on social media. So I just started on Facebook hammering away every single day. My content was terrible. You saw it in the know, like, anything you get better.
Mine still can be found. Go find the ones where I’m dressing in a way to try to hide the fact that I was more overweight then and saying things I don’t agree with anymore. And it’s nice when people can go, oh, I love the new stuff.
I’m like, yeah, thank you 100%. Yeah. So I was like, I’ll get around to it. Then you have a week with 170 leads come in and there’s no website. You have a week with 200 leads, and you’re like, okay, well, maybe I don’t need it. I got so busy just making social media content, it was like getting around to it became a silly joke thing for me. Yeah, that’s basically it.
Jason well, it’s kind of nice to find that as that perspective. And it’s also a friend of mine describes it this way. Based off of the well, actual baseball team, then based on the book, then based on the movie. Do you like that series of Kevin Bacon referrals here? Which would be what’s? The money. Know. What is the thing that is truly driving the shape of the business? And it’s where I’d give an example, actually, of someone who I just hired as a vendor to do some work inside of my company. And it was, oh, wait, I’m just doing that final due diligence step because I’ve met you at a few events. I know people who have used you. Is that your website? And she goes, oh, no, we don’t have a website because we can’t handle any incoming clients, and we really shouldn’t be taking you on, but I want to work with you.
That’s awesome.
Oh, okay. Followed by, here’s the catch. Here’s a dozen email addresses and phone numbers of people we’re currently working with that could vet us. I’m like okay. You’re good. So it’s that awareness as to it’s kind of why I never this may change because the building is now officially under a contract for sale. We still have the Virginia Hypnosis website. It still says on there that I’m in Orlando and all the sessions are online. And there really wasn’t much of a need because somehow it was the two different podcast and the groups that I run that became the source of clients. I want to come back to the marketing side of things in a bit. I’d be curious just to ask you this here, which is in the span of roughly about two years plus at this point, what’s changed, if anything, in terms of, let’s say, your perspective on whether it’s hypnosis, whether it’s how people produce change or even specifically around stopping smoking, what’s been that shift over time, if any?
Oh, boy, there’s so many things to jump into there. Maybe go in reverse order in terms of smoking cessation. I remember you and I had a conversation not too long ago about this. The expectation that I was building in a session was that essentially we’re going to go through this process and you’re going to magically come out the other side. A non smoker. That still happens occasionally, right? Like, folks will have that experience, but I’ve really learned to let go a lot of those, like, bringing that stuff into a session and really just embracing the person in front of me, understanding where they are thinking about their behavior. And as I work with people in that very organic way hold on there for a second.
Get more specific on that, please. And I agree with you 100%. There’s a thing that I’ve shared over the years about subjective experience, and it’s in part modeled after something from Don motton, just put with my spin on it of here’s, this group of people. It’s out of sight, it’s out of mind, it’s just done here’s, this group of people, where it’s not really the issue, it’s more the habit of the issue. And just you’re aware of it, but you’re also amused that you’re not doing it, which is odly, my favorite one because of the irony and the just unique nature of it. The last group of people, it’s where you may have that moment of the two voices, yes, no, yes, no. Yet the difference is, this time you’re ready for it. The moment passes because it’s nothing of an experience, or you make use of something from the work and then you’re fine.
So as much as we’d love to aim for everybody in this flip a switch and the what are these cigarettes you speak of? I’ve never know. It’s not brainwashing. Otherwise we’d be charging more and booking less time. So what’s different in terms of your communication, your process around just that expectation?
Part of it, yeah. Fantastic question. So when you and I were talking a long time ago, you said, you know, some people have had this problem for a really long time. It might take them a little bit of time to get rid of it. And that’s where we talk about multiple sessions and things like that. So sort of how I’m approaching this, Jason. There’s the person in front of me. I know I can’t stop smoking. For them, it’s not about me. It’s about that person. It’s about what’s going on inside their head. I need to find out what that is. And as we work on that, one of the things I like to explain to clients is like, the journey starts after the session is over. Right?
Yeah.
It’s not about what we just did. The most important part of this process is when you leave here today or for me, when we hang up the Zoom call, because I’m 100% online. But it is just that, right? And so whatever experience they have, they need to honor, right. They need to understand that you’ve done an important thing here. It’s okay if you’re a little upset, if you’re a little angry. If things are bothering you might find yourself feeling great. You might find yourself just feeling filled with energy. So I just kind of recap a lot of things as people that have quit smoking experience, and I let them know that in advance. I do it even on the strategy call, Jason. I do it before we begin the work, and then I do it afterward. And they still have questions about it, because one of the most remarkable things I’ve realized with people, they’re just not okay with what they’re feeling.
They’re always feeling like they need to shift it or should be different. And I’m saying, no, you’re, you need to be present with this. That’s why it’s the Organic Hypnosis Training center, right? It’s all about that person really getting in there and letting go of some of the expectations that we would have for them and that they might have about what the experience is going to look like.
Well, let’s go into just the user feel of this for a moment, because it’s where the yeah, but that could pop up without the proper framing would go, oh, but I’m still having the craving. I’m still thinking about it. That means it did not work. And what’s your approach to then addressing that?
Yeah, so I actually tell them on the front end, it’s entirely possible. After we get done talking here today, you’re going to have cravings, you’re going to have desire to smoke. We’re doing this work at such a deep level as these changes integrate, you’re going to notice that’s going to go away. Some of this is chemical, right? Jason we know is the nicotine leaves the body and all this type of stuff, but I really believe we’re working underneath the problem.
Right.
We’re getting to the real problem, essentially. Like, if smoking is the symptom, once we solve the real problem, the symptom is going to go away given enough time. And just letting this sort of happen now, that’s a little bit different than a conventional approach. And I have testimonials from people saying, I don’t know what you did to me. I thought you were full of junk. And I smoked as soon as were done. Two weeks later, I can’t even be bothered with a cigarette. It’s like a little kid that just had so much mac and cheese, and they can’t stop asking for mac and cheese story for my little boy, right? And then I go to the Sam’s club. I buy him 800 packs of mac and cheese, and he doesn’t want it anymore.
Oh, yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, you and I are about the same age. Do you remember the cereal Triples?
No, I don’t remember that one.
Oh, dude. Okay. Welcome to the triples episode of Work Smart hypnosis. They’re not a sponsor because they don’t make it anymore. Puffed, corn Puffed, wheat Puffed, rice So, Corn Pops, Rice Krispies, and then whatever the other one is. But you’re coming onto a theme which I love, which is, hey, let’s not deny reality. You’re going to know these things exist. And there’s a pattern around that I’ll sometimes get into that I could tell you that as a result of leaving here today, you will notice no changes, as if some means to anesthetize or numb whatever feelings. And that could work. Yet what’s more effective is to utilize whatever there. It’s the shampoo pattern that this one’s tingling. I can feel it’s working. It’s utilizing these moments to go when you feel this, it now means this.
Yeah. You said something to me a long time ago about how all hypnosis is. I think you said complex equivalence and suggestion. I think you said it breaks a cause and effect income.
It’s either pacing and leading, or it’s the complex equivalence pattern. And their issue is already anchoring. So you just need to anchor something new.
Right? Yeah.
You may have your certificate now.
Thank you. Yeah, I finally made it.
Yeah. So then, in terms of that conversation, though, with the client, how are you telegraphing that?
I have slides I use to explain it. I just share my screen, kind of walk through some playful imagery. But the biggest point of emphasis, because it’s not all that scripted, I really don’t work in that way. I don’t have a problem with people that do. I just want to throw that out there. Work however you want. That works for your clients. Right?
Well, I’ve got to go back to it’s a Richard Nongard line that’s the people who say they’re anti scripts are either one of three things. One, not actually doing the work at all, and they’re just repeating the popular thing. So let’s dismiss that one. No harm. The second one is they are using them, but they’re saying the popular thing and they’re liars and their pants are on fire. Or three, which I’d imagine you fit into this category of which this is something that Bob Burns said when he was on here, too, around repeatable pattern, that you may go into this mode for that specific thing. The way that I would reference for a comedian, you think they’re brilliant when suddenly here’s the person in the crowd and it’s, what do you do for a living? And suddenly they’ve got nine minutes of lawyer jokes. But then when he’s in the next town over and there’s another lawyer, it’s the same jokes, and you’re quitting smoking because your friend, who’s around our age and around the 40s suddenly got really sick.
And it’s this wake up call and there’s a kid on the way, and you just feel more guilty that you’re having to dismiss yourself from all of your life and just enough is enough. You’re not enjoying it anymore. I got eight minutes on that.
I like that I can explain, but I want to point out, because I think you used to be like a stage manager. Isn’t that correct, Jason?
Stage manager in theater originally, yeah.
So the actors on the stage, right, they didn’t just go up there and improv. They had a script.
You know what? I don’t like this to be or not to be thing. Could I say it differently?
Yeah. No, they internalized the script. They memorized it. They went up and said the line. So I think a lot of times the only reason I bring this up is because I think as I’ve gotten into training, I’ve noticed there’s these certain camps. Sometimes we’re all great people, we all want what’s best, but sometimes we’re not particularly kind. With some of the communication that I’ve.
Come here’s where you’re wrong on that, Vinnie. Okay.
No, but it is what it is, right?
It’s the origin of the we help people.
Right?
Wow. There’s a lot of attacking because someone used progressive muscle relaxation, which might be one of the most well researched methods in all of the work that we do. But, yeah, we help people.
Yeah, 100%. So that’s where it shakes out. When I’m working with a client, I don’t plan a lot. I don’t use, like, a traditional don’t. I just start asking them questions. I start to learn about what’s going.
To I want to pause you there, and I’m going to interrupt you here a few times only for the reason that it’d be easy to hear that and go, oh, that means I need Vinnie’s specific process, which yes, you train. We’ll come around to exactly where they can find you. Of course. Hey, we’ll give it to them now. Worksmarthypnosis.com four, two, five. That’ll bring you over to the show notes. All the links we have yet to talk about will soon be there. Now that someone got off his butt and made a website, though, I want to look at it more from the perspective here of just unpacking it, which is, was that a conscious decision to not do the pretalk?
Yeah. I can walk you through sort of the experiences I had. So when I started my smoking cessation clinic, I really wasn’t networking with Hypnotist. I was just all about seeing clients. I’ve done trained with just fantastic people in this industry that work differently than me, and it’s great. And I’m going to just say, do that right. I do something different. I don’t want to besmerge anybody. I think stuff’s great. I did run into some issues working in a more traditional way, like a second session, someone would compensate. I’m really struggling here. And then we would start to explore what was going on, and Jason had nothing to do with a cigarette at all. Oh, my daughter said something about me on social media, and I’m super embarrassed. I love her so much. How could she do something like this to me? These are the things that would come up, and then they’d want the cigarette.
So what I would do is just start to explore that with them. Okay, we’ll talk about this thing with the daughter. Tell me a little bit more about it. And it’s not really about what I’m saying to them. It’s almost like I’m just giving them a space to really reflect on what’s going on. And as I do that, this beautiful unconscious communication, sometimes hallucinations regressions, just incredible stuff that we would maybe guide somebody to would just happen spontaneously. And I would go, well, this is something incredible because I’m so smart. Jason it took me forever to realize, why don’t I just start there, right? It took me forever to get around to that, because I would do my normal stuff, and then there was a hit rate. But what I found was just by working with the person in front of me and leaning less on technique, depending more on the client and their unconscious mind to show me what we need to work on, that’s where I started to get a way that works for me really well and that I show people now.
Well, I like that because, one, it makes every process different, not just for the sake, for our amusement, but it comes around to where we can look at it from that angle of going, well, here’s what they brought to the process. And rather than everybody who does this is because of that. And everybody has this because of this, that if all you had was a hammer, everything would start to look like a nail. And instead, it becomes a very unique experience. I’d ask a slightly leading question because people are interacting with you in terms of content online in advance of coming into that space, which is, yes, online, it’s where you probably already have a lot of that rapport, a lot of that comfort already. Oh, wait, this whole presold client thing that I keep talking about where they’re coming into it, and they already have that connection.
They’ve been mentally rehearsing a dialogue with you, but now they’re coming into it for the first time in real time.
Yeah, I think there is some real value in that. I think having that web presence that people can just absorb helps tremendously. Right. They can self select. Well, I can’t say that’s true. Jason I have had people just pop into a live account book on my calendar. Hey, what are you doing? I just want to pay you and be done with this. It’s usually like, doctors and stuff. It’s wild, all right? But for the most part, people take their time and they really want to. So I think there is a lot of some of that’s being handled prior to even getting on the strategy. Call with me or we go through the sales process. It’s awesome. Is that kind of what you were alluding to there, Jason?
Yeah. Yeah, it’s looking at it from the angle of well, it’s the question that pops up. Like if we’re doing a training. And I’ll talk about how and when and why I might make use of suggestibility test in a different context than traditional, yet when I may use them, when I might not use them. And it comes around to what is that level of rapport and expectation that’s already there? And if I need to elevate it, okay, let’s do some sort of hypno demo hypno stunt and then use that complex equivalence. The way that this happens is the same way that this happens, which means this is what’s going to happen. And it’s now just priming the process. But it’s not, oh, I always use this thing and then that thing. It’s about, well, like you said, being in the moment, truly holding space with that person in front of you.
Yeah. It’s incredible what their mind will come up with. I love learning this stuff with people. I love learning the different ways they do it, the techniques. I think it’s fascinating. But what blows my mind even more, what that person’s unconscious mind will spontaneously generate. It’s so rich with meaning for them. Right. I could have created a similar experience. It’s almost like, though, just because it’s coming from them, it convinces them so much more and it makes my job easier. Right. I just get to chill out and hang out and kind of like, yeah, it was weird when they come back. Yeah. It’s just a fun way to work. You’re right. If you see smokers all the time, too, there is that familiar pattern for me that got a bit if I’m being honest, it got a bit tedious. It’s like, oh God, I’m really passionate about helping them, but I’m also human, so that burnout is very real.
And being able to work in this more dynamic way, it’s like, well, we’re talking about shapes. That’s strange. What does that have to do with quitting smoking? And they quit.
Let’s go into that, too, here, which is that moment of burnout, which yes. Okay, let’s go positive psychology on this. Behind every action is a positive intent. And I’ll bring this back to myself. When I started with Stage Hypnosis, and I did at 1.3 hundred plus programs in a year, which is where you do like multiple things across multiple schools in one county. And it’s like, here’s the assembly, here’s the one in the afternoon, here’s the evening fundraiser. Now I’m driving home and it was kind of looking at the was I burning out because of the driving? Yeah, that was a huge part of it. And being away from family. Was I burning out? Because I would have these moments where I’m like the audience and I can turn on theater brain and let it be performance ready every single time. My first week working at a theme park when I was in my teenage years was the management of entertainment going, don’t count your shows.
It’ll kill your soul. And I did. I’m like, Cool 628, or however many it was. I forget the number. No, but it’s that ability to approach it as being fresh, yet it was when I was having that internal dialogue of, I don’t see why they’re laughing now, like, okay, it’s working. And I can go through the motions of this program and be in real time with them and to go inside of it, to go, is this an away from, or is this a toward? And it was a toward motivation, because here’s everything else that I’ve built since I pulled myself out of the stage work. So it’s where from that burnout, you could say that it was the tedious nature of doing the same thing over and over. But then again, that’s what helped you to kind of find this culmination. Because if I remember from the last time we talked, it’s a little bit from here, a little bit from there.
Here’s my spin on this. But it’s where that gave you the space to become more creative and truly make it your own.
Yeah, 1000%. I think this is something I remember we had a brief conversation about on episode three, two, one, sleep. Look at that. It was something along the lines of clients being our most important teachers. That’s saying something, because we have some fabulous teachers in our industry. I think you’ve won awards and stuff. Ultimately, it is that I think that process of burnout is probably natural, and I think it’s probably necessary for your mind to create new things. I think it’s just kind of out of that boredom, the creativity can emerge. I think you really hit that one, Jason.
I will pause there so we couldn’t hear that there was a compliment, I think, in there somewhere. Thank you for that. I would never back to the original question, though. I mean, in terms of even what it takes for someone to activate a change. Even Hypnosis is part of the vehicle that helps to create this thing that people are able to do on their own. That’s my stop smoking story with my grandfather. He found out that his four year old grandson said, I don’t want to go to Grandpa’s house. He smells bad. And he just threw every bit of it out and moved on. And there’s people who make the changes that rapidly on their own. And ours is the vehicle that helps to create that shift for people who need that additional assistance. So what does it take for someone to produce a change?
I mean, I think that story I know there’s no formal hypnosis happening there. There’s just something about being human. I swear that’s the most hypnotic thing. Anytime there’s that moment of authenticity or vulnerability, there’s a reason why we suddenly open up to it. Right? Jason you’re like, Man, I feel even if you didn’t like that guy, right? You start to empathize. There’s something powerful happening there. And those moments where suddenly the grandpa’s looking at this problem differently, looking at himself differently. The path is right in front of him. I can go down this and have the smelly house. And even if he comes over, I’m going to feel bad because I know what’s really going on in his mind. It’s just hitting him differently. Same activity, smoking and now looks different. That’s a beautiful thing, right? That’s a very beautiful thing. And so I don’t know.
I really wish I had, like, a sweet theoretical thing to lay out for you here, but I think there is something about just embracing reality. I always say the truth is the path to freedom, and I’m a big believer in that. So when I’m working with clients, it’s all about trying to be as honest with what’s going on as possible. And I’m not, like, trying to hurt people’s feelings. I just want to give them a moment to look at it. Kind of like what your son did there. That’s really great. Do they need additional support? Sometimes? Yeah. Right? Some people do. Jason that’s kind of how it goes. Some people need a little bit more encouragement. I don’t like to give people techniques, even though I like learning them. I like to see what happens organically in a session, because sometimes the technique, they need know, I could just sit in this chair and look at my grandson here.
I could just sit in my rocking chair. I don’t need to wow, I really don’t need to smoke to relax. This gives me way more joy. And that was there the whole time. Jason they just never had a moment to actually look at it that way, and they never spoke again. So it’s like kind of like tasking in a way, for support, but I’m not directing it, per se. And again, I’m not 100% against doing that. People got to do what they got to do, right? You work the way you work. Yeah, that’s fine.
Well, let’s take that to sort of the business side of things, which is that one part of it was, okay, you labeled it Laziness. Mine is where eventually it was like, oh, here’s everything I’ve done that now brings everybody into these meetings, into these calls with me. Let me just lean into that. Talk us through what that the trade term is that of content and commerce. The biggest mistake that most people are making in their businesses, especially in the hypnosis space, is trying to go direct response when they don’t yet have the rapport to pull that off, which is the call this number to book your session, and you’re like, what is it? What happens? And the balance of what I’ve seen you do over the years in terms of the social content. So give us some insight in terms of what’s working for you right now, in terms of that audience, that engagement that bringing people in.
Yeah, there’s a lot there. It still is about confronting reality. Like, that’s a through line for me with everything. But I think some things that set me apart is all the stuff you’re not seeing going on behind the scenes. You see me post 3456 times a day sometimes, right? I’m just churning out content like crazy. But what’s happening behind the scenes? I’m getting DMs from people. They’re asking me questions, right? And I might just video reply to them. There’s a video reply feature on Facebook Messenger. Let’s say that’s the app. Well, why wouldn’t I just make a quick 22nd video again, it’s just going to be authentic and real, whatever. That’s how I do things. A lot of one take shooting going on over here. And that extra step, though, of seeing the face, hearing your voice, I think there’s some value to that. Plus, I want them to know I’m not some weird spammy bot.
So I think that hits people differently, those little things. If I ever DM somebody like Cold DM, it’s never to ask them for something. It’s like, hey, I saw you were struggling with this. Here’s a video I made about that. I hope that helps. There’s zero expectations for me, right? And I’m ghosting that DM so fast, right? I want it to be like, here’s a gift, right? I’ll see you later, that kind of thing. It would only be to add value or I have done it in the past. When I started my clinic to get to do some market research, and I just had a random memory come back. I actually helped somebody quit doing market research one time, Jason, just by asking them questions and learning about what was going on. That’s wild. And I actually just connected that now, like, oh, yeah, now you just do that.
That’s strange. Funny.
Yeah.
Anyway, weird.
It’s the power. If we want to get nerdy and bring technique into it. That of chunking down, asking questions to unpack the reality and then going for values. The whole meta model, chunking down, chunking up. The side effect of that sometimes is it just creates the result. And then people give you every bit of the credit because they think you did it. And really, you were just asking questions to back to what you said about sit there for a moment and look at the photo of the grandkid. It’s that suddenly they can’t look at it the same way they did before. It doesn’t work the same way it did before. So just to try to get creative with my transitions here, for the person who’s stalling on getting themselves out there on any kind of social media. And it’s clear the ones that you’re using and they all work, and it’s a matter of which one is going to be that main point of focus.
Let’s look at it from the content perspective. What are you kind of doing to keep up that frequency and have something to talk about?
Yeah, that’s huge, if I’m being honest. There’s moments when it’s a bit repetitive and boring. It’s like, what’s a different way I can talk about this? That does happen. So that’s just a reality we have to accept.
Although let me just share my take on that real quick. It’s that never assume the audience has seen everything that you do a thousand percent, and it’s a different audience each time. And if you ever need a reminder, you know that Starbucks sells coffee, and they keep reminding us that they sell that.
That’s a really significant point in terms of just like the creation side. Specifically, though, knowing that there’s going to be times when it’s repetitive. One of the things that helps me enjoy it more is actually engaging with folks. And there’s easy ways to do this, literally, I’m sure you’ve seen this, and I’ll ask questions on social media like, what do you think about secondary gain? Right? I’ll just ask a question like that. I had no idea how loaded the opinions were either. I really did not hang out with it until I just saw clients. I was like, oh, lot of beliefs. It’s cool though, it’s cool. But then it’s like, let’s say you get 30 replies. Well, why couldn’t I make a video about those replies? Right?
Exactly.
Speak to all of them. Speak to what people are actually what’s in their head. Talk to that. Remove yourself from not your personality, but remove like, how do I say this? There’s the how, then there’s the how you do the how, okay. The how could be hypnosis. It can be coaching, whatever. How you do that, though, is going to be tailored to the individual and they’re not going to understand it from your frame of reference. I barely understand what hypnosis is. I’ve changed the way I work entirely in three years. So, okay, how could I possibly know? But I know there’s something really powerful occurring. How would I expect some prospective client to understand what I’m talking about? It would just be a lot of jargon and things, and some of that’s very useful, especially if you’re working a traditional way. I think you got to kind of help them cross that bridge.
But ultimately for me, it’s like, what are the questions they’re asking about how to get free of this problem? How can I speak to those consistently and then kind of nudge my solution on there for them? Talk about why it’s different. I can give you an example of that if it’s helpful. Jason yeah, that’d be so like one of the things I’ll do on a TikTok live. This is insane. This will make everybody so much money, so please steal this and use it. So I’ll say something along the lines like, you ever feel like there’s just something underneath the surface that’s keeping you stuck smoking? You really don’t know what it is? Comment yes below. And then now there’s 100 people writing yes. Which tells the algorithm, hey, show this live to more people. There’s a bunch of engagement. And I’ll say, yeah, so do you feel like it’s a chemical problem or something else?
And they go, I don’t know, I feel like it’s something else. Yeah, isn’t that interesting? So to the extent we don’t solve that, what are the chances you’re going to be smoke free permanently? And now they have a context. Now, I don’t know exactly what’s inside their head as they’re listening to that, but I know they found something, they at least are aware of something differently. And it’s like so that’s what I do. My clinic helps people solve that thing that’s underneath the surface that’s keeping you stuck smoking. Not once did I mention hypnosis, right? They don’t have a context for it. Anyway, at some point I might bring it up if they get really into it, but now they’re a bit intrigued because we’ve kind of positioned this problem of smoking as something else, right? So anyway, you can use that. Do it.
Well, the great thing about that is the advice let’s go in reverse order in terms of just unpacking that. That the sort of phenomenon of short form video and how these other apps that are out there now have kind of taken over the ones that we would expect to be video. And people are now watching more hours of video on things that are not. YouTube. In addition, of course, to YouTube is still there and running strong, and it’s where the conversation used to be that the easy advice for someone was to go, okay, so just schedule time in your calendar, or even better if you can. And this is part of the move that I did to go, I just want my studio set up all the time. So all I have to do is click a button and from my devices, my lights are on, everything is all set up and suddenly I’m there, I’m live.
And all it took was hitting one button to turn on the lights and another button to start the stream. And it’s changed though, because we don’t want to come across that polished and everything smooth and perfectly put together, especially on the short form platform. So at one point, my advice was designate a space, even if it’s like you’re setting up a corner with a light and a camera. And when you come up with something brilliant after a session, then run over there and film it right then, or schedule it throughout the week. And with short form, it’s become so much more easy as well as so much more appropriate to just hit the button and record right then or go live. And it’s more of come as you are, as opposed to let me now warm up the vocal cords and go into all that prep type stuff.
That’s an awesome observation. Yeah, it is a significant shift, right? Because it was all about production value. Like, you were trying to compete with folks that have a massive ad budget on the front end, and that’s tough to do now. It is literally just click and be authentic in front of a camera. But here’s where it gets problematic, right? Jason like you see folks I saw like there was like, I don’t know if I could say this, like a nudity challenge or something with coaches where they were basically taking pictures of themselves not wearing clothes, like they were covering themselves.
Gotta say, I didn’t expect that tattoo from you.
But here’s the point I want to make, is, like, there’s actually being authentic, then there’s this other thing where we’re trying to play with the trend. That’s tricky, right? I don’t want to give vague advice or suggestions with people, and it’s hard to just say, well, be yourself, but ultimately that’s going to come through. If we’re being practical here, that’s going to come through just doing it. Right. It’s like you should expect the first couple of times you try to film a video that you feel a bit unconfident and awkward and weird and you hate it. That’s going to happen for a while. And then you do it 100 times and then you’re like, okay, it’s getting better now. So you asked the question of what advice would I give people? It’s literally just to start, it’s going to be bad and then eventually it’s going to be all right and people will hire you.
They’ll give you money to help them. I don’t know anybody that hasn’t had that experience that’s really successful in our industry.
That’s true across everything, even into we do a demo during a training sometimes, and it’s the I can’t do it that way. And my joke is, just remember, I’ve been at this now for going on about 20 years plus total since I first got involved with Hypnosis as a hobby and then trainings and then thousands of clients. So really all that matters is just the quick, honest math that I’ve done it several more times than you have.
Yes.
It’s not to go, one is better than the other. It’s instead that, look, here’s that journey of something. My spin on you and I bonded originally, I think, on impostor syndrome, to go, well, if we don’t accept it has to be a legitimate thing and instead look at it in terms of just a mathematical equation, you haven’t done this thing yet. And when you’re the person who does the thing, you become the person who does the thing. Oh, I love that. Yeah.
What was the other line you have about becoming it, Jason? You say something about something become about oh, not about Niching becoming the niche. It’s about something along those lines.
Oh, yeah, it’s that and especially with everything with AI and this on rush of content that’s hitting the world, which can’t ignore it. It’s definitely there. Make use of it in the ways that serve you, yet it puts us up against the volume game. Doesn’t work the same way anymore. Of I’ve heard the advice before of keep putting it out there even when no one is listening yet, because that’s going to show you’re serious and then they will. And I would say that advice isn’t as grounded as it used to because now we’re up against a volume issue. But the true nature of it is your niche is not just what you do, who you do it for, and how you do it. It’s who you are to the audience. And that’s why there’s people who well, here you are. You went from seeing clients, now you’re running courses.
And that happens over time. It’s the friends from theater career and everything backstage production to watch America’s Got Talent and go, oh, I saw them backstage 25 years ago. Wow. It took them 25 years to become an overnight success.
That’s huge. I feel like that grounding that in reality, like, that’s so huge for folks because it’s so easy to fall victim to that. I guess if I were going to emphasize any one thing, it’s just if you don’t start consistently taking action, if it’s a skill set issue, jason will teach you how to do stuff with business. Right? There’s folks out there for that. If you don’t go for it, though, you’re just going to continue to suffocate under the weight of your own unrealized ambition and potential. And that’s no way to live.
Well, let’s take your story there and put it into a context that here’s what that could have been. It could have been this lazy, good for nothing, no, hang on.
Guilty, charged.
Didn’T have the talent to throw together a freaking just one page website. No, sorry. This epiphany to harness social media and community. Let’s go with that one here. We’re friends and use that. And it’s where it could have been. I mean, of course not going to say names, but anyone listening to this who’s been around this space for a while you know those people who have been talking about putting together that website who have been talking about launching that event, writing that book, and looking at things from the perspective of again, my phrase on this is when you’re the person who does the thing. And let’s go into this. I mean, you’re putting a ton of content out there and of course, everybody on the Internet is extremely friendly and they say only nice things, and they’re like, wow, did you know you’re also handsome on top of being so smart sometimes?
I get that it’s pretty. Not often. Usually there’s going to be some hate. Right. So there’s some strategies here for this, right?
Yeah, go for it.
I have a video up on YouTube how to turn trolls into cash if anybody wants to watch. But if you think about it, the algorithm doesn’t care if they’re saying nice things or mad being mean to you. A lot of times. Let me take a step back. So I focus so hard on community and scaling one to one relationships, really showing up for people. It’s like if you say something nasty about me on a comment, sometimes I’ll let it play out if I’m feeling a bit malicious, but a lot of times I’ll delete it to protect the troll because my community will viciously attack you. But it’s like, that didn’t happen overnight either. That was a lot of putting myself out there, regardless of the, you know, you’re going to be judged. And I would be lying if I were to sit here and act like that didn’t affect me.
It doesn’t feel good when people say mean things to you, that’s okay. But sometimes that’s an indicator that there might be an insecurity within you that you could learn about. And now you’re even more bulletproof when you show up or that person’s just a jerk. And you can block them, right? We don’t have to be afraid to do that. That’s why there’s a feature in the tool. So make this very simple, as binary as you can. Like, is this an opportunity for me to learn something about myself? Do I just need to block this person? Do I want to let the algorithm run? And just now there’s 500 comments on this that’s hilarious has nothing to do with the content, but it’s being showed to more people now, right? And there’s a chance that someone that wants to quit smoking sees that video. You said just the right thing.
They book a call, and now we’ve got a new client.
You know how you can’t say politics aside anymore?
Yeah.
Okay, so politics aside, I go back to a moment around 2007, probably early 2008, and those of you outside of the US. Sorry, but you’ll know some of the names I’m about to reference, and it’s where it became historically, at this moment, very clear that John McCain was going to be the candidate for president on the Republican side. And it was like, down to the final wire. Is it going to be Hillary Clinton or is it going to be Barack Obama? Now the internationals are going, oh, I know how the story ends. And it’s this moment that I always remember where John McCain was on Saturday Night Live, and they did this bit around, hey, let them keep fighting. Let them keep going at it. Yeah. By the way, I’m over here, too. There is something to be said about. I wouldn’t go so far as the classic phrase that there’s no such thing as bad press.
Right.
However, there is engagement, and it’s amplifying it. And I do appreciate what you said about this. Probably isn’t helping that person. Let’s just take that down from there. You had mentioned something before we dove in here that I’d just be curious to nerd out on here a bit, which is that you’ve mentioned some of the tech that you’ve brought in to kind of simplify this. What can you share that you’ve been doing on that side?
I’ve really developed an affinity with Descript. I think this is such a useful editing tool that’s been huge for me.
Oh, Descript.
Descript. Yes, that’s right. I think I said Descript in a really weird way. Wow. Yeah, descript is great.
I said zapier. I said zapier wrong for ten years. And finally I met their team at a conference in the marketing space. They’re like, It rhymes with happier. I go. You should have said that. That’s your slogan. Just use that.
That’s a good point.
Descript.com.
Yeah, it’s absolutely fantastic. I love that tool. There’s AI stuff built into it. That’s fun. Suddenly you look like you know how to shoot a professional video. It’s pretty cool. A bit of a learning curve, but it wasn’t that bad. It was mainly me. It’s a whole thing. Anyway. That’s worth an investment, I would say. I was playing with one stream for a while. I just kind of got away from that. Like the fake lives. I don’t know. Sometimes I get actual engagement in the comments during it’s, like, well, this is weird. Yeah. I just don’t think it draws like it used to. You know what is really drawing right now, Jason, is text based posts on things. That’s crazy. I think it’s because it’s almost like the opposite of the short form video content.
Anybody who wants to listen to a true nerding out moment. Hey, Venny, did you know that if you post it from your phone rather than your computer, you get more characters on Facebook to do that sort of background post? Did you know that?
No, I didn’t.
Yeah, it’s awesome. Oh, you’re welcome. Yeah. If you started on your computer for anyone zooming into this who was popular in high school, let me now catch you up on Facebook. Now, there’s a function where sometimes it’s like a graphic thing. Sometimes there’s, like, a colorful background, and you could of course, choose it for yourself. But if you’re doing that on your computer, it gives you less characters that you can post. And suddenly you hit this magic point where you put in one more letter or one more piece of punctuation or that extra space, and suddenly it looks like a regular post. But then if you did it instead from your smartphone app or tablets work the same way with the apps. I don’t have the exact number, but.
You get more space, right? Yeah. That’s incredible.
It’s those littlest of things that I keep using. The catchphrase of all the crap we didn’t plan on becoming experts at.
Right, that’s such a good point. I guess in that note, another thing that’s been really huge for me is like batching content. It’s not quite a technical solution, but it’s just an operational solution that I man, I really did not want to do that. I thought it was going to be more difficult. No, it’s awesome just to spend 4 hours on the weekend or on a Friday or whatever day is good for you and just make like 1520 videos. Just knock them out some short. You could take a long form video. Cut that up. Right. Because there’s something about those. Not everything you say is going to be brilliant. Right. The conversation like this. There’s going to be some nuggets, though. And boy oh boy, isn’t that a great 32nd clip somewhere? Now people are intrigued.
I’d be curious because this is one that’s popped up in a bunch of conversations around here’s where you’re exactly right. That it’s not just, oh, I saw this post. Okay. So like, they’re calling you and paying you well. There’s some engagement that’s happening even in terms of the direct messages. Are you doing anything to keep those organized?
Yeah, let me try to explain it at a high level. So let’s say I did something that I know is going to get a lot of attention. And then I’ve got some things where I might ask people to do things that, whether it’s for me or for them, it might be a bit uncomfortable. Like, I’m going to ask you to take this risk this week in your marketing, something like that. I will structure that afterward. I’ll put that afterward because I know it’s going to get less attention. So I’ve got the post that’s going to get a lot of engagement. Then I maybe have a post where I ask you to do something. Now I’m going to go back and like all your comments after I post at the second thing. Okay. Because now you get the notification, you go to your phone, you scroll up, you go, oh, what’s that?
I don’t want to do that for.
Anyone who might not have followed that. I’ll just walk through the example of that. And this is true on every platform. Here’s the Facebook example, which is, you ever get that message and it doesn’t show up because it’s in the message requests. And there’s a whole stacking system as to if you have a friend connection with them. If you and the term that I keep hearing is, quote, blow up their social. Which doesn’t necessarily mean to blow it up. No, of course not. Or go crazy with it, but it’s to swoop in and find something just to drop a comment. On.
Right.
And it increases the algorithm’s chance of that message truly actually delivering.
That’s huge. Exactly. Right. And so from those two posts now, you’ve got the post from me that you engaged with. Okay. You replied, I liked it or whatever, reacted to it. Then I have my other thing going on. There’s a better chance of you seeing it now. I’m going to come back and respond to your comment. Right. I’m getting as much as I can. I am posting a lot, but I’m getting as much as I can out of those two because it’s really about creating the same thing I did with folks that want to quit smoking now. It’s like, how do we create this interpenetration of ideas amongst all of our colleagues and peers? Hopefully in a hospitable way, we’re doing the best we can there, but it’s that type of approach, right? Yes. I want it to be my community, but it has to be our community.
I’m just doing it in a digital context, like a Facebook page or YouTube or Instagram, whatever it is. So it’s the same type of methodology, but the timing on when you react to something, you can leverage a lot of value out of that. And like you said, Jason, just being a good guy and showing up on someone else’s page and just giving value. Right. I’ve there. Don’t go there trying to steal attention, you know what I mean? That’s a big no. Like, I’ve had folks just link to their trainings on my post and I’m like, dude, if you would have hit me up, I would have interviewed you and talked about it and put it on YouTube or something.
Oh, yeah, about that. Yeah. Why, bro?
I’m here to help.
And I’m only smiling because of my windows open one of my desktop windows here at my computer. I’m laughing because in the moment I was talking about something popping in as a message request. I just got one. Is it a direct offer? Yes. They didn’t follow the instructions, but we’ll take care of them anyway. You and I just did the thing which I love, which is having a three hour conversation in roughly 45 minutes before we wrap this up. First of all, let’s do this in reverse order. Where can people track you down? How can they find you?
Yeah, vinniebrigance.com. Now that’s the thing that exists. Look at that. So, yeah, just go there. I’ve got all my socials linked up and feel free to hop on any of my social media. I think as a practitioner, it’s weird for me to come into an environment like this and give advice, because it’s not really what I do. I always just say, Watch what I do and then emulate what works for you. Just start experimenting with it. You can see what’s getting attention. The only problem you’re going to run into there is a lot of the stuff that I do that doesn’t get a ton of attention is what converts, because it’s just maybe I’ll leave this here. Jason, have you ever had a moment when you consume a piece of content and it blows your mind so much you forget to like the post? You maybe share it with somebody.
You’re like, I can’t believe this. That type of content is going to create not just a client, but like a lifetime. You’re going to have a lifetime value with that client. The ROI is off the charts. So use your emotions, use your sensibility. If you’re out in public, you read an ad and it stops you in your tracks, look at the headline. What was it about that stuck out to you? Now? Use that. So I would suggest people just hop on my social media, look at what I’m doing, and play with it. Right. And please post. Just make content, please.
Yeah. And then vinniebrigance.com, that’s also where they can find the trainings.
Yeah, that’s right.
Yeah. So give us, like, a thumbnail sketch. Tell us about the programs that you’re doing now.
Yeah. At a really high level, there’s not a lot of theory involved. We jump into demos almost immediately. I talk a little bit about how we’re not doing this, we’re going to do that, and then it’s literally who has a problem? Okay, let’s dive into it. You get to be the hypnotist. You get to be the client. We do that for two whole days. Then day three is a bonus business day where I kind of walk them through in a little bit more detail, how I market things, how I come up with content. Different little hacks I use on social media to find people that might be interested in the service you can provide. Very high level. That’s what we’re doing. Very hands on.
Yeah. Which this is coming out in September. We’re episode number 425 because I was off by four to hit the 100 anniversary thing. So easy for everyone to remember. Worksmarthypnosis.com four, two, five. Type in the numbers. The one person who sent me a very angry email because they spelled the numbers out, I understand you, I see you. And I’m you as well. But yeah, four, two, fivethenumumbers, after worksmarthypnosis.com. This has been awesome to hear what you’ve been up to and to hear the evolution of it all as well. And I’m just sure every bit of it’s going to keep growing and growing. Before we wrap this up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there?
Yeah, absolutely. So feel free to comment on this episode wherever you see it. I would love to hear what your biggest takeaway was. And the last thing is just that nobody was born a hypnotist. If you have this dream. Jason didn’t come out of the womb with a spiral. He didn’t have a pocket watch. So just consider that for a moment. No one was born a hypnotist. That means there is a series of activities that took place for someone to gain the skills they need to be competent at this. So if you’re playing the game of confidence, I would just ask stop playing that for a moment and start giving yourself an opportunity to develop that competence. Just get out there and do it. The learnings you’re going to get from clients, they’re not always going to feel good, but they’re the most important learnings you’re going to get.
So that’s it. No one was born it. That means you can become it.
Hey, it’s Jason Linett once again. And as always, thank you so much for interacting with our phenomenal guests. Thank you so much for sharing your reviews of this program online. And once again, check out worksmarthypnosis.com/424 that will bring you directly over to this episode with Vinnie. And then also, while you’re on the web, check out his social media channels, check out what he’s up to and also check out Hypnoticbusinessystems.com Guessing Sucks model. What actually has been proven to work right now. Check that out. Join today hypnoticbusinesstems.com. We’ll see you inside.
Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and worksmarthypnosis.com.
