Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.
00:00
This is the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast, session number 438. Carlos Casados on memory reconsolidation coaching. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Linett, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Linett. Welcome back to the program. I’m Jason Linett, and I’ve got to rewind you back in time to July of 2024. I’m in Las Vegas. It’s the Hypnothoughts live conference. And I walk by a room that clearly there’s a workshop going on inside of. And that room is completely packed. Every seat is filled. It’s standing room only in the back of the room. So I do the logical thing and think to myself, hey, let me go in there too. And in that room is Carlos Casados that many of you are about to meet for the first time.
00:55
And he’s doing a workshop specifically on the timeline, hypnotherapy, nlp, process of personal change. And something that stood out to me right away was the fact that Carlos is one of those people that for the last dozen or so years has been rather busy with his head down, actually doing the work of professional hypnosis, actually working with clients towards personal change. So there was this clear demeanor of what I call being a hypnotic worker, being that person who’s actually out there in the trenches doing the work. And, sorry, not just creating the techniques to impress other practitioners, not just creating hypnotic methods that are convoluted just to impress other practitioners. There’s quite enough of that out there already.
01:41
So instead, though, it’s this brand of what he’s put under the category of memory reconsolidation coaching that just brought this real world application to something that I’ll admit, at times seemed a bit more artistic and complicated than it even needed to be. And part of my backstory was that I used to be in Virginia, and while I was there, my kids were a whole lot younger. And the idea of traveling around and attending a bunch of different events was becoming more challenging. So I kept bringing the events into town, I kept bringing them into my neighborhood and just, you know, so it would be that, you know, we’d have another 30 or 40 people there hanging out as well.
02:23
So after this presentation that Carlos did specifically on timeline and memory reconsolidation coaching, we got to talking and he is putting on an event coming up in November and December of 2024, which you can find all the details over at carlostimeline.com that’s going to magically redirect over to the right place. So you can see all the details of this upcoming event though, as we are going to dive into this conversation, a couple of things. First of all, in case you’re curious, whenever I hop on to record with somebody, I tell them, hey, we’re going to record for maybe 30, 35 minutes or so. And as it got to be about 1 hour and 10 minute mark of this conversation, it became clear that this was going to be a two part episode.
03:09
So guess what folks, you’re listening to part one, session number 438 on memory reconsolidation coaching. Next week we’re going to release the second part of this conversation, Carlos Casados on Sacred transformations, which stay tuned for that one as we get into the topic of generative change as well as psychedelics. And that is a conversation you absolutely want to listen to. So for this week though, we’re about to dive into the topic of memory reconsolidation coaching, a way of looking at the process of personal change and simplifying it in a way where now it’s much more workable, it’s much more flexible, and it’s something that allows for even greater creativity of how you actually navigate the change process and help the client to create that transformation, not just on the level of habits and behaviors and beliefs, but truly on that level of identity.
04:08
You’re going to find there’s quite a number of oh wow. Takeaways inside of this. The conversation where he and I admittedly nerd out on the power of Ambiguities is one that I know you’re going to want to rewind back through and listen to a couple of times to pull out some of these specific language patterns that we’re using. But again, it was a real treat to have this conversation. I’m excited for you to listen to both this week as well as next week as we split this up into a two part series. So to check out more about Carlos and the work that he’s doing as well as this upcoming event, head over to Carlos timeline.com that’ll just magically redirect over to his hypnotherapybreakthrough.com website.
04:50
It’s a six week live and online training event that I’m excited to be a part of as well to see the work that he’s been doing as well as the streamlining of this powerful hypnotic change process. Check out the details of that [email protected] and with that, let’s dive directly in part one of two of the series. And here we go. This is session number 438, Carlos Casados on memory reconsolidation coaching.
05:23
Wow. So I think it was the guided visualization that I did as a kid. My sisters and my mother were, you know, really into spirituality and things. So they used to have me visualize things, or if I told them I wanted to deal with a bad dream or something like that, they would suggest to me that I could change my dream or that I could draw upon resources and things using my imagination. And they told me about how to dream differently. And so they would teach me to count backwards from a number, and then I’ll smile.
05:55
He sounds very familiar, right?
05:57
Exactly. Repeating myself, I’m going to wake up in my dreams. I’m going to remember I’m dreaming all these kinds of things. So I think that was my earliest experience of that. But later on.
06:08
Hang on a second, because how old would you say you were at that time?
06:11
Oh, God, it started really early, like four.
06:14
Yeah. So one of themes that often pops up, somebody’s learning, whether it’s, you know, hypnosis and, or nlp, and it’s this narrative around, oh, this is the stuff that we should have been taught earlier on.
06:25
Yeah.
06:26
And, you know, it’s rare to have that moment that I’m talking with somebody who, well, did have some of this stuff early on. Was there any intention of, hey, this is a little weird, this is a little out of the ordinary, or was it just kind of accepted at that point to go, well, this is the thing I. I can learn how to do?
06:43
It was really the second one. Nothing was weird about it at all. I, I just was super fascinated with consciousness. And, yeah, I, I wanted to be a wizard, you know, as a little kid. I mean, that was the thing. So for me, it was just all about being a wizard. And, and that’s what they were doing. And everything I. I dove into from that point was centered on that consciousness aspect.
07:04
Yeah. So then what did that lead to next?
07:06
Well, I got into martial arts really early, probably about seven or eight. And eventually one of my martial arts teachers, I think I might have been a teenager before I did the formal version of this. But there were many times along the way that my teacher would have us as a group, lay down, and then, you know, guide us through kind of a hypnotic journey. But it was this one particular time when I was in New Orleans that I got hypnotized, maybe at about I don’t know, 16 or something. And it was a formal hypnosis. You know, he really put me under like to the point where I was channeling another person’s experience or at least it felt like that it was like a past life or something in that hotel before it was a hotel, when it was a home.
07:51
And I had what you might call a past life regression. And I scared my girlfriend at the time because apparently I was speaking in the voice of a little kid and she was very surprised by that. But when I emerged from it, this very vivid experience of running around the house as a little four year old or whatever, it felt like it was my experience, even though it might not have been. It could very well have been my subconscious mind just coming up with a story. But it was so detailed that we had to ask, you know, the manager downstairs about certain aspects. And he was very shocked to know that I was repeating things exactly from the history of the hotel.
08:30
Oh, wow.
08:31
So I don’t know what that all means. You know, I don’t want to interpret it. Just saying it was a really cool experience. And it got me even more interested in hypnosis. I started reading books about it and, you know, as I got older, eventually I took formalized hypnosis trainings.
08:48
You used three specific words a few moments ago, which I felt the. What’s the technical term in our industry, the sphincters Titan of about 18% of the people where you use the term of put me under. Which I’ll just share my little perspective on this, which is that, you know, here’s a piece of language where someone go, oh, don’t say that. Oh, don’t necessarily use that. And I always go back to the example of here’s a client who I worked with, issues around public speaking. And we met once and the session went fine, you know, just, I could sense he was a bit nervous about it. But then fast forward, it’s the second week and he’s in front of me and he goes, this was amazing.
09:28
I’ve just been so much more confident in my speaking and so much more aware of what I was doing that I actually, I could focus on presenting better rather than focusing on, you know, don’t present badly. And just, I swear, last week when you put me under hypnosis, it just clicked that I can enjoy this now. And of course I then responded, fantastic. So today when I put you under hypnosis, this is what we’re also going to be doing. And I flash to that, which is where there’s this almost sensitivity around language that is appropriate inside of the work that we do. Though, if it’s the vernacular, if it’s the actual terminology that clients are comfortable with, then by all means run with it.
10:11
What are your thoughts on those moments where again, here’s where one side of the industry would say this, but then again, here’s our clients that are clearly saying we’re okay with that.
10:20
You know, back in the 90s, I’m going to answer that question by saying this, that back in the 90s, I got into something called chaos magic. And it was a thing about using non traditional means to alter one’s consciousness and even traditional ideas like magic, sorcery, witchcraft, that kind of thing.
10:38
Did I hear that spelled with a ck at the end rather than a C?
10:41
You did.
10:41
Okay, good. Yeah, absolutely.
10:43
And one of the things that was emphasized was this kind of paradigm shifting thing where you need to be able to be very flexible in the way you think and also your beliefs because they tap you into a whole different tool set. And so even though I’m personally more of a like a non state kind of guy when it comes to hypnosis, I absolutely recognize that one way of looking at it, one way of framing it, is that someone puts you under. Right. So at that time, as a kid, and coming from the paradigm of my teacher, definitely that was the appropriate word for it. But nowadays I might be more careful about the word choice, as you mentioned, because it does mean different things to different people.
11:24
Well, let’s put you on the spot here. All hypnosis is self hypnosis. True or false.
11:29
Yeah, I wouldn’t say that.
11:32
I’ll give you mine. All hypnosis becomes self hypnosis eventually.
11:36
Yeah.
11:37
Yeah.
11:37
And I would say it depends on how you look at it. It’s like people who say that you can’t hypnotize someone against their will. That’s not true either. What’s true is that if you don’t have an understanding of someone’s beliefs, if you’re not persuasive with that person, if you don’t know how to frame things, and if you can’t alter their experience of reality, then certainly that’s true. Yeah, but there are conditions for everything. I mean, human brain is absolutely hackable. Mine’s hackable. Everyone’s hackable. So it depends on underlying beliefs and framing and also the skill of the influencer.
12:14
Yeah, well, I mean, let’s look at that experience where he said 16 years old. Here’s the experience that wasn’t your experience, but felt like it was and then some sort of confirmation after the fact. What was the takeaway of that? What did that lead to next?
12:30
So this is a little bit of a sidestep, but were having some, what people might call a paranormal experiences. Bed shaking. I saw a ghost the night before, like with my naked eye. And there were a few kind of creep out moments that were fun creep out moments. I mean weren’t terrified or anything but that sense of like the hair standing up in the back of your head or your neck and the goosebumps and the, you know, inability to speak for a few moments because you’re just very shocked by what’s happening. And so that’s what led to that experiment or my teacher quote, unquote, put me under. And what I took from that was just that we can interact with experiences on a variety of different ways.
13:15
And if we have an experience of a past life, or we vividly imagine the perspective of the person who had that experience, or our imagination generates it, any of those three things, it’s as if that experience is now yours. So it doesn’t matter whether or not it really belonged to another kid back in the Civil War, or if my subconscious mind made it up for me, it felt real. And therefore it’s a reference experience that I still draw from. And it definitely influenced my thinking moving forward. So that’s why I’m careful when I do past life regression with people, which is rare. Not to be dogmatic about it, that’s.
13:59
What I was about to ask you that. How often does that turn into the dialogue of is that exactly what happened? Is this real or is that what my mind created? What’s your typical response? If there is going to be that kind of questioning after the fact as to real or not real, I think.
14:17
That’S the most common thing that comes up and it comes up almost ubiquitously whenever I do this. It’s like, is that real? What really happened there? Did it even happen? And that’s the thing is we’re starting to get into subjective philosophy here. But me personally, I would say that it’s all true to a degree. It’s a question of context and application for a person who’s looking to resolve an emotional issue and they find relief from it. That’s good enough for me. You know, it’s not a question of whether it’s real, it’s a question of whether it has real results.
14:50
Well, you’ve got this event coming up soon around memory reconsolidation coaching. So from the research perspective, I mean, here’s one side of it that would suggest the idea that the best way to remember something is to forget it. That every time we revisit the memory, it confabulates, it adjusts, it generalizes, it distorts, it deletes, and there’s some sort of adaptation. I’d go to this one quick client experience where he was somebody who was deaf until he was maybe four or five years old. He was supposed to get a surgery eventually, by the time he was eight, to then resolve the issue. And it was a different time. The doctors would say to the parents, well, you know, he’s going to be slow for a few years in school, but he’ll probably catch up.
15:35
And just one day, whatever it was in the ear canal healed itself. And all of a sudden there was hearing. And this was a guy who was dealing with a lot of emotional eating. And there was this. And I’ll shorten it here, but there was this blip of an experience where he had checked in with his parents, who were both in their 80s, both still alive, and, like, the issue resolved itself once we hit on those events and then we did the work around it, but then it kind of plateaued when the dad goes, you weren’t four, you were seven. And then, because the conscious brain was then intervening to go, oh, you did it wrong. And, like, all it took was a just either polite or really impolite question of, do you care how old you were?
16:18
I mean, look at this change you created in the last three weeks. He goes, oh, yeah, I’m fine. And, like, back on track there. So, like, how does that, the science side come into that in terms of, you know, this perception?
16:30
Well, you’re familiar with Michael Yapko, I’m sure. Yeah, he wrote a book called Suggestions of Abuse. And in that, you know, he talks about the role of the hypnotist and the hypnote and the questions and how the questions can create almost a subconscious installation in the hypnote. And so you have to be really careful about what you ask. And we know this. They’ve done so many social science experiments with memory simply by asking certain questions first or even telling a story in a particular way that it shapes the perception in such a way that when they went to search for those memories were different, even though on any other day they may have recalled it in another way. So it’s important for people to realize that how they remember it is as important as what they remember.
17:19
So in other words, what’s the frame of mind that you’re in when you’re recalling an event? What’s the purpose of recalling that event? If your purpose is to look for a lesson that’s very different than your purpose being to relive the experience? There’s a little more open ended when you say relive the experience because. But it’s also more limiting in some ways because if it’s a negative experience and you say I want to dive into that memory, I want to remember it in detail, well then you’re going to re traumatize, you’re going to go back into the pain, you’re going to go into the experience. And some of those details may be exactly as it happened and some of them might not be. And the thing is, we’re never really perceiving the entire picture anyway.
18:03
We’re focusing in on certain things that we’re choosing to remember about it. So for example, my dad was screaming at me as a seven year old and I remember that experience and being terrified or something like that. I’m not necessarily remembering the color of the carpet or the clock on the wall or, you know, the smell of the Fruit Stripe gum I had in my hand or, you know, I mean, it’s those things that I’m choosing to remember when I recall the event that shapes the experience I’m going to have when I do it.
18:33
I think it’s perfectly fine to look at past negative experiences in the same way that a scientist might look at something or an old, you know, compound on the shelf to try to understand how that compound is composed, what it’s made of, what else can you use it for? If we go back into our memories, even traumatic ones, but we don’t look for the trauma, we look for the lesson. We can view it in a variety of different ways. It’s one of the reasons why I’m teaching the course is I want to show people that it’s safe to do that. You don’t need to regress in the classic sense of just open ended. Go back to that time when that terrible thing happened and see what you saw, et cetera.
19:15
You can go back with a specific agenda and control how much of the sensory experience that you perceive. We are in control of that when we recall things.
19:27
Well, let’s look at that for a quick example though, which is the client is reaching out to you and they have a very specific goal in mind. And I tend to see that anything involving memory, anything Involving an experience or an event. There’s not just the preconceived notion, but there’s also the preconceived perception around it. And like, what is it that you’re doing on the practitioner side to sort of begin to ready that right mindset so it’s not turning into we’re going to source this experience to prove, we’re going to source this experience to validate. Yet instead, as you said, really use that as the leverage to then go in with the expectation of the review. Reason is there for actually creating this transformation.
20:15
I think one of the really important things is how the hypnotist frames the experience or the person who’s guiding the coaching. Merely the suggestion that you can remember these things without re traumatizing yourself, it’s okay to look at them, that changes your frame a bit. But then the addition of things like you know that at any given moment that you’re. Even if you’re deeply involved in a memory or some kind of experience, you can always change your mind. Right. You can always pay attention to something different. And then I’ll have them practice it. I’ll say, you know, picture your favorite fruit. What is it? Okay, it’s an apple. Great. What color is it? Okay, it’s red. Great. I want you to make it twice as big as it was a moment ago. Go ahead and do that.
21:02
Just in your mind, just make it twice as big. Okay, Great. Now flatten the image and turn it into a two dimensional image. Great. I get them to practice. It’s not just these specific things, it’s just anything at all that shows that they can control the speed, the flow, the color, the sub modalities as we talk about in nlp, you know, the distance, the shape, even looking at themselves while they’re watching, that is a way of going into a dissociation where they see themselves watching the experience. Or I’ll say, think of something you really love, some experience that you remember. Notice that when you’re in that experience so you’re fully associated and your nervous system can remember and recall all sorts of details. Notice what happens if you zoom away and make that image really small and you’re not in that image anymore.
21:55
You can see yourself in a picture. You can see yourself down there at that moment. It puts them in a very different state. I’ll ask them, I say, can you notice that you’re not feeling any of those feelings anymore? Can you notice that it seems like that happened to someone else? And typically the answer is yes, I do. Notice that. And I work with them if they can’t, I work with them till they can. I show them that they can. I think that’s the key, is that as a coach, we are responsible to a large extent what happens in the session. I think mostly it’s us, so we have to pay attention to. Even though we’re inviting them into more empowerment and we’re inviting them into the idea that it’s all them, we as professionals are the ones getting paid.
22:42
So we are responsible for the ultimate result here. So that pre framing, in my mind is really important.
22:52
Well, there’s a part of that too that’s worth highlighting here, which is that one of the things that I’ll often politely rant about is in terms of, on the business side of things, the practitioner who is making the mistake of starting all of their narratives in terms of drawing in the actual clients, but they’re speaking about it in the terms that are important to us as the practitioners, they’re talking in terms of, by marketing terminology, the middle of funnel narratives which are talking about the methods, the actual techniques, and then even getting into. And I always get pushback from this. One, yes, everybody, your clients do have limiting beliefs, but they’re not laying in bed at three in the morning going, damn these limiting beliefs. I got to do something about it. Or helping you to find your best resource states.
23:39
And we all nerd out and smile and nod and go, yeah. And then the Muggles, the non wizards go, wait, what? And it’s this little simple addition to the sub modality work, which is, let’s have you practice this and understand the framework of what we’re about to do before we even do it, with the intention of creating change.
24:03
Right.
24:03
Otherwise we’re chasing two different possible targets here. One being the change the client is there to actually achieve. But then also two, trying to figure out, wait, what the hell is he asking me to do?
24:14
Yeah, this is what you’re speaking of right now is one of the reasons why this course I’m creating came about, not directly, but indirectly. So initially it was me trying to use the timeline therapy as I learned it in NLP classes, right? And I found that of course it works really great with other NLP people, you know, works fantastic because they all know the language, they know how to dissociate and associate. They’ve practiced all these things and they’re, you know, they’re a captive audience. They want to be there, they want to pass their course. They’re doing this thing. There’s so many reasons why it’s so great while you’re in the course. Plus, you have a. Usually it’s like you have a script or something. You have something you’re working with that helps you to guide you through the steps.
24:59
And then as soon as you start to go out there as a newbie, you know, having clients and, you know, doing a little coaching here and there, then you get in these situations, you’re like, oh, goody, I get to use this timeline thing. Right. And you’re excited and then you want to guide them through it. But because you’re using language that was almost generated with people who already have a background in this stuff in mind, you get a lot of head scratches and a lot of like, wait a minute, what do you want me to do? Or I don’t understand what you’re asking me here. What do you mean? Higher learning, they get super confused.
25:34
And so I learned after a while just to be flexible and change things up and to do a lot of pre education while I’m moving into potentially using a technique like timeline.
25:47
Yeah.
25:47
And you know, that plus the many things that I learned about memory over the years shifted it for me. And I realized I can’t call it timeline anymore. I’ve got to call it memory reconsolidation coaching, because it’s not exactly what I learned. And it wouldn’t be fair. Not to mention I don’t want to step on any toes. You know, I’m not claiming to teach someone else’s system per se, although I freely admit that I’m drawing upon very heavily timeline therapy and other modalities. But the key for me is I’m approaching it differently. I’m showing people how to do that differently. And hopefully not just to be color by number, but also creative. How do you create with this? How do you step out of the script, gnosis part of it, and turn in, be a master.
26:37
Be someone who can masterfully and artfully work with ambiguities and unknowns and dive in.
26:46
Well, I want to come back to the ambiguities and the unknowns. Though 16 years old, hypnotized, here’s this unique experience. I’m sure at that point the obvious thought was, okay, I’ve got life figured out. I’m going to go off and become a hypnotist now. So there’s some steps along the journey that I want to get.
27:02
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. It’s one of those things where I thought at the time that I was going to be a martial arts teacher. And so that was my whole focus. And along with that was the fact that I would be in a position of counseling because at some point I became chief instructor and I had to deal with people’s problems. It wasn’t just martial arts teaching. It was also discipline and emotional stuff and different things. And so I got into that role of really being interested in psychology. I began reading about it and going to the Southern California, you know, Jungian Society meetings. And, you know, I just kind of started diving into this whole thing. And eventually it led to me studying neuro linguistic programming.
27:49
And I went through one course, and then I would find a different teacher and go through their course, and I would just keep. Wash, rinse, repeat, you know, this process of wanting to really understand how I could help, how I could apply these things, and how I could work with people’s deep inner beliefs, their identities, their values, their experience. And that led me along the way to hearing different iterations of, hey, this is how you hypnotize someone. And here’s some theory about why this works or what this comes from. And it led me from teacher to teacher. And I continue to be an avid lifelong learner. I love learning new things, and that’s what my life’s been dedicated to.
28:33
I realized I found a career that I love to do that enables me to continue growing, but I can also earn a living doing so and provide a service that people appreciate. So it’s gratifying. So I would say, you know, my underlying intent is the same as it was when I was four years old. I have the intent of being a wizard, and I really believe that. That’s a beautiful thing about myself, is that I keep true to it, and all of my learnings are focused in on how I can be a better wizard.
29:09
Is there a moment along that journey where there was. Whether it’s a specific category within, whether it’s hypnosis and NLP or even something else where there was just this click to go, oh, I either. I’m gonna lead here, I either get it now, or this. I’ve kind of discovered this underlying explanation of the entire world. I often hear that, you know, someone along this journey finds that one category within this work where it just kind of creates this bigger perception of just this understanding.
29:43
Could you ask that a little differently? I’m not sure if I understand your question.
29:46
I don’t think I asked it properly either. No. Sometimes in the categories of whether it’s the language or whether it’s the patterns of the mind, there’s this sort of perceptual shift where we kind of step into this greater knowing of understanding how people get into problems, how people solve their own problems along the way.
30:08
Yeah, that’s an evolving thing. So to answer that question, I would say that constantly evolves in me. As you know, I’ve been working with sacred medicines and psychedelics for 35 years now. And that’s another branch of altered states of consciousness. It’s another branch of coaching, because when you’re guiding others and doing this, there are a lot of things that can come up. My work and my learning as a hypnotist and as an NLP coach and all those things that I’ve done all contribute to the same goal of just deeper understanding, a better ability to relate with and communicate with human beings who have human troubles. Right. And the psychedelics are just another aspect, kind of another facet of consciousness expansion, consciousness research.
31:00
So when it comes to, you know, understanding people’s problems and, you know, it’s a lot about also understanding what is this problem a symptom of. And something is flaring up in their system. Whatever it is, whether it’s rage or anger, anxiety, you know, patterns of addiction, it’s showing up because there’s a need of some kind that’s not being met. You know, some aspect of their beliefs, whether appropriate or not appropriate, doesn’t. It’s irrelevant. It’s showing up to be the voice of that problem. In a sense, it’s saying, hey, I want to be solved. So problems are solutions waiting to happen. We’ve heard this before, and that’s the way I look at it.
31:43
The nlp, the timeline, the hypnosis, the discoveries I’ve made on psychedelics, all of those things help me to frame and categorize and understand the nature of the communication of that problem and what might be the easiest route towards resolution.
32:01
Well, you mentioned earlier, and we’re definitely going to come back to psychedelics, you mentioned earlier, the ambiguities that occur inside of whether it’s the memory reconsolidation journey or even just the change journey itself, Even before we dive into those ambiguities, do you find that, at least for the work that you do with clients, one to one, there’s a specific either archetype of clientele, a specific category of issue that you tend to work with the most?
32:29
I tend to work with a couple of things. So when it’s couples, it’s relationship stuff. I really dig people who are working hard to maintain beauty in their relationship. I just think that’s awesome. So I like to support that. So that’s one category that comes, let’s say, you know, let’s say 20% or something are relationship coaching people that need some help with their relationship. Another portion, I don’t know, maybe around 30% of what I do is related to anxiety. So whether it’s social anxiety, you know, issues speaking in public or something else like a self mutilation or plucking, picking, scratching, you know, those types of things, ultimately there’s anxiety component in there. And so that’s a huge component. And then the other stuff’s a kind of a mix of different things.
33:22
Like business owners that are looking to just find inspiration and creativity again, leaders that are looking to better at the group dynamic and how to cultivate a culture within their organization. Others are folks that are just really issue specific. They’re not necessarily generative in the nature of what they’re looking for. Some of them are very issue specific. That means people who aren’t making calls when they know they should be, or they’re eating way too much sugar, you know, or they are smoking and stuff like that. So those things are, you know, ideal for these kind of techniques that we learn in nlp and when we can frame what we’re doing as parts, integrations or swish patterns or, you know, anchoring processes or a variety of other things that I know. So it’s a little bit of a mix.
34:14
But a lot of times from your.
34:16
Perspective, would you say that there’s a common through line in terms of most of those issues though?
34:22
The common through line is that people suspect that their inner subjective beliefs are causing problems, but they don’t know how to fix it or what to do about it. And so I’m showing them how, as a mindset coach, I’m showing them how to change the way that, how to change who they’re being so that what they do and what they have changes also.
34:50
I’m writing that down. Change who they’re being. What was the rest of that?
34:54
So that what they do and what they ultimately have from that doing changes?
35:01
Yeah, well, it’s. It’s this identity shift that has to occur with anything where, you know, they’re holding on to some level of story that I’m not the person who does that. And this is kind of my playful twist on the whole. Can you hypnotize somebody to do something they normally wouldn’t do? Well, they normally wouldn’t stop smoking and just move on. They normally wouldn’t get up and speak and feel confident. So, yes, with the giant asterisk next to that’s what they’re asking for help with. Yet it’s where that identity shift has to occur along the way. So that now not only one, can they move into this change that they’re looking to create, but also two, that old issue just no longer fits. It’s no longer congruent to the change that they’ve now stepped into.
35:48
Yeah, yeah, that’s definitely the case that people don’t see necessarily. It’s framing. It’s what we talked about earlier. It’s framing. People don’t necessarily frame various experience, even as hypnosis, even though it might qualify as such. They don’t realize the ways in which they’re levitating in life by feeling lighter and feeling like they can just rise up through the ranks of their organization. I mean, there’s so many metaphors for, like, hypnotic phenomenon, you know, amnesia. Having amnesia about, let’s say, a toxic ex. That would be a nice thing to have amnesia about, wouldn’t it? Or to have amnesia about all the times that you didn’t speak well in public when you’re about to get up there in front of everyone and speak in public.
36:42
Although, just to play the filter on this one here, are you saying amnesia or are you saying amnesia? And I know, recording audio only, and I just did the international sign for air quotes. It’s as if there’s amnesia around.
36:58
Right? Hypnotic amnesia.
37:00
There we go. Yeah.
37:01
Is what I. What I really mean to say.
37:03
Yeah, well, I always get into that where if it’s a training, it’s like, well, yeah, but they remember it well. Yeah, but there’s a difference between something that’s remembered versus something that is the constant filter of every single decision that they make. And the easiest. Yeah, but that they use as to why they can’t do a specific thing.
37:19
And then the third category of remembering to forget.
37:24
Don’t. Don’t be coming on a hypnosis podcast like that, dude. I mean, come on, seriously. Well, let that one slide. We’ll let that one slide. Although, speaking of ambiguities, what would you say is that importance of ambiguity within the change process versus this is one of those traps that I see people get into where. Oh, but I haven’t had the experience of trying to climb up the corporate ladder, so who am I to help with that? I haven’t had the experience of trying to quit smoking. And it’s really the place where, you know, we could make the mistake of going far too deep into the specifics of which we get it wrong. And this is where saying less often becomes saying a whole lot more. Because it’s within those ambiguities. It’s the poetic part where the client is writing in the necessary details themselves.
38:13
What wouldn’t we do without ambiguity, generally speaking?
38:17
I’m going to call you out on the second time, dude. I mean, come on. Well, if you think about those ambiguities, notice how it makes you feel.
38:27
Exactly.
38:28
Sorry, everybody. Three of you are laughing and the others are going, wait, what? Which. You’ll get there. You’ll get there. No, but I mean in terms of bringing that. If you could give a specific. This is a sentence that cannot be written. If you could think of a specific intention of adding ambiguity to hypnotic change work completely regardless of whatever the methodology would be like, what would be one of those simple changes that people could bring into their work that leverages this power of ambiguities in the change process?
39:02
Well, when you say the word better. Okay, you’ll hear this a lot, you know, client. Well, I just, I want to be able to sing better or I want to be able to be a better dad or whatever it is better. You know, this is a comparative deletion we learn in neuro linguistic programming, which means there’s a deleted portion of that statement, like what is missing out of there? So better. The question that we might ask is better than what specifically? So that’s when people misuse a comparative deletion. But you can use a comparative deletion intentionally with your clients, whenever you say, doesn’t that feel better now? Right? That. That’s an element of getting their minds to focus on your words, the word better. And they in a sense, hallucinate or they make a leap. All right? They see things that aren’t there.
40:01
They look for things that aren’t there. You’re leveraging cognitive bias and you’re shaping the way they look. If you shape the way you look, they’re going to perceive differently. You’re framing it. So, for example, you know, when you do a test and future pace with someone, which is, you know, after working with a client, you do an exercise or you do a drill with them, and then, and usually we cap it off with a test and future pace testing is just like, all right, after we’ve done a pattern interruption, I’ve taken your mind off and I’m going to bring you back to the topic again and say, okay, so that issue that you used to have, you know, the one where you used to X.
40:42
I want you to go back and think of a time when you used to do that and notice what’s different now. Look for and tell me what’s changed. So that language is somewhat open ended, but I’m still directing them with these kind of ambiguous language, right. And getting them to look at that, but with a particular mindset, a mindset in looking at what’s different. You’re already shaping it in a new way and the same thing moving forward. If you were to imagine a situation wherein if you hadn’t made this change today, you might have had that X, whatever it was, what is different about it now? What new opportunities do you have? What new elements are you taking with you that you didn’t have before? And what you’re doing is you’re getting them to actually sort for what is different.
41:35
And you’ve done it with the past, you’ve done it with the future. So in a sense you’re creating enough dot points in their consciousness that they can subjectively say, I feel different, I feel like it’s okay now. They can shift that because they have enough of the structure of this rehearsed change so that when they leave the office, they walk away with that sort of set in mind and they begin to fill in the blanks. They begin to look for why that’s different, they begin to experience it. They might even start doing the thing that they said they couldn’t do. Does that make sense?
42:12
That does. And there’s a segment of what you just said there that everybody go back and listen to it again because it was gorgeous in terms of, as you said, you know, there’s enough dot points, there’s enough, you know, little ambiguities and these little nudges that are inside of that where, you know, it’s where if I’m running a training event, sometimes I’ll be the one to go, okay, stop doing hypnosis, stop it. Which is the moment where someone’s saying to somebody, and now you can feel that confidence rising, feel that confidence getting stronger. It’s like, well, show is better than tell.
42:49
And you know, as you think back to those moments where you used to feel that anxious sensation, those moments where you used to feel this hesitation and this fear go there, you know, even if it’s just a simple, what do you notice now? What’s that feeling? And even the difference of adding in one word of what’s that feeling instead? And it’s, you know, and I’ve had some people in training events sometimes go, yeah, but that’s just going to make them sort for something to be different. And I go, yeah, I know, oops. But it’s amplifying that mental rehearsal. It’s amplifying that sort for what is different versus what’s the same old story.
43:29
Right? The phrase holographic reality came to mind when you were speaking. You’re creating a new holographic reality for them. Their memory is kind of holographic. It’s not any one piece that holds the memory together. It’s a whole bunch of things. And if you remove one piece, the mind kind of fills in and duplicates. It’s holographic. It’s what allows you to interact with the memory in a vivid way if you want to. And so if you create those dot points, what you’re doing is you’re making sure that you satisfy enough of the conditions of holographic nature that you’re creating for the new determination, the new imagination, the new experience. So I like to think of it that way.
44:15
Past performance need not indicate future results.
44:19
Objects in the mirror may appear smaller than they are.
44:21
Thank you, Meat Loaf. And you’ve got this event coming up. It kicks off in November and December and the links are over at. You’ve got a shortened link for it, carlostimeline.com that’s just magic because it just redirects to the right place. So Carlos, timeline.com by the time people go through that specific event with you, what’s the skill set that they’re going to have?
44:45
Well, first of all, I’m going to make sure that everyone, even if they have no background in timeline or any of that kind of stuff that the memory reconsolidation coaching process, I’m going to teach them everything from start to finish so they don’t have to have a background. But if you happen to have a background in it, let’s say you took a timeline course and you even know some of the methods. I’m going to make sure that those people get sort of high level stuff. So kind of coaching, masterclass stuff that we can get into and let people discuss the issues, frustrations, difficulties that have come up and help me solve it for you. I mean, we’re going to get into some of the background, a little bit of the neuroscience behind it.
45:23
We’re going to get into different methods and I’m going to teach people ways of sort of artfully finessing the session with language, with, you know, watching the client by responding to them in particular. Ways that will help them shape their coaching skills into something phenomenal. I want them to have, you know, in some cases it’ll be like, wow, another tool in your tool set that you can use and will help you make money and get more success with helping use to solve your clients problems. And in another sense, just an enhancement of the overall outlook that they have about coaching.
46:00
Well, that’s one of those aspects of this category that, you know, it is timeline. It’s also not timeline, it’s timeline adjacent at the same time. But really this is a working model or this is not the best term, but it’s the one that makes sense in my head of a quote set piece for change. That inside of it you could go off in this direction and suddenly you’re now, let’s say in a more classical hypnotic sense, going to the control room and dialing things down. Like other methods and modalities fit inside of it. So kind of going off on those other pathways as to, well, when this pops up, here’s the coaching around that. When this pops up, here’s a method around that.
46:43
Yeah, yeah. The thing is a person doesn’t even have to have a hypnosis background to be able to do this technique. This is why I’ve opened it up for psychologists, social workers, just counselors, coaches, healers that are, you know, in parallel fields, like, you know, New Agey kind of stuff, other kinds of healing, spiritual counseling, et cetera. Because this is a standalone methodology, it doesn’t require that someone have any previous experience in order to do it. So I’m very excited about that because I would really invite people of different backgrounds to be a part of it because that helps me. I mean, it’s the questions they ask differently, the scenarios that they might come up with might be very different. So I find that helpful.
47:31
And I just want to mention like an example of something that comes to mind when I think of one of the ways I used to ask a question versus one of the ways I ask it now. Can I share that?
47:42
Absolutely.
47:43
So I learned to ask when I studied timeline, was this before, during or after your birth? That was literally the question I was told to ask. And I thought, well, what if someone doesn’t have any beliefs about past lives or they’re adamantly against it? Like they’re, you know, they identify as strongly Christian or something like that and that just doesn’t fly in their mind. And they might even get irritated or fall out of rapport with you because you asked it that way or they’re hyper rational and they say, before my birth, you know, and you just can’t seem to get them in. So. So that was an example of like something I thought was ridiculous. Like, why would you ask that question unless it was already understood that person said, I have all these past lives and that’s a real thing for them.
48:35
Like, that’s important. So instead I learned to just simply ask, when was the first time you experienced this? Go into your memory and let me know if you were to know, what age were you? And that changes things. It makes me finesse less because it frames it in something that their conscious mind is okay with. And when I start to teach them how to ask their unconscious those questions, how to go with those gut instincts and those feelings and to go with first impressions and just trust it, I’m already earning rapport because they’re starting to say, okay, well, I’ll try it, even though I feel insecure about it. I don’t know what my unconscious is yet. I don’t know how I tell if it’s the unconscious or the conscious answering the question.
49:25
And those are all normal questions for most rational human beings to ask. But it gets me closer to where I want to go. And it’s those refinements in language that I think are really important. I’m going to get into detail and really dive into why those are important.
49:45
Hey there, it’s Jason Linett. And once again, thank you so much for interacting with this podcast, for leaving reviews online, as well as sharing these episodes as part of your ongoing conversations with the rest of this incredible hypnotic industry. You can find out more about this week’s episode by heading over to worksmarthypnosis.com438 that’s where we put the show notes for this week’s specific episode. And if you’re listening in time, absolutely. Head over to carlostimeline.com that’s where you can find out the details for this upcoming event. Specifically on memory reconsolidation coaching, if you hear this in time. Looking forward to seeing you there at the event. If you happen to hear this slightly too late, you’re probably okay, because I know that Carlos is designing the event so that class number one stands on its own.
50:35
And if for some reason you’re able to dive in, at least for the second week, he’s going to be sharing the replays. You’ll be easily able to catch up from there. So check out the details [email protected] thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast at worksmarthypnosis.com.
