Session #56: Chris Jones has Got Talent

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Session number 56. Chris Jones has got talent. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynnette. Hey there. Welcome, Happy almost New year if you’re listening to this on the launch date.

If you’re listening anytime after that, happy 2016, and what an awesome way to wrap up this program for this calendar year to catch you up. First of all, a little bit of business. Typically the format of this podcast would be that I then send it off to a team of outsourcers that I work with who then edit the audio, cut out some extra long pauses, kind of clean things up.

And it’s kind of amazing how Marie, my podcast editor, and she’s listening to this, so I’m gonna appraise her. She can often take a 28 minute recording and cut it down to such a tight 24 minutes and nothing is removed. But the way that she does it is remarkable. Well, she’s gonna read it. She’s gonna hear it here.

Marie, do not edit what we’re about to release. Cause to date things back, it’s about maybe a week and a half ago and I see a voicemail coming in my phone, and it’s that moment where immediately I recognize the phone number was from Illinois and I saw the name Chris Jones. And as I saw it after the fact, I went.

That’s Chris Jones from America’s Got Talent. He just called me up. Cool. Return the call later. Uh, I was with family at the time and if you do not know of him, I’ll rewind the story back slightly cuz I think this is probably, I’m not gonna say probably, this is in my opinion, the hypnosis event of 2015.

This is a moment that got more hypnotist talking online, got more people interacting and discussing hypnotism than anything else that happened this year. No argument in my opinion. And to set the stage. Let me paint the picture for you. Let me draw the story out for you. There’s the America’s Got Talent Competition Reality Show, and a judge on that program is the comedian, actor, former talk show host Howie Mandel.

If you’re not familiar with Howie Mandel, without diagnosing the situation, he does not like germs. And you’ll hear some of the nuances of that in this conversation that Chris and I about to listen. And in many ways this could be argued. I will not say he invented this, but I would probably argue that Howie Mendel may be a lot of the reason of why the fist bump is so popular because he doesn’t like germs, he’s not gonna shake your hand.

However, he, oddly enough, does seem very comfortable with a fist bump. So here it is. The video clip went a little bit viral online first, and then it was aired Prime time in NBC Network television. America’s Got Talent, which as a side note, is a program that classically the variety artists has done well on, yet the hypnotist has not done as well yet until this moment.

In a previous recording with Joanna Cameron, you heard some of the story of how she did well with Britain’s Got Talent and America’s Got Talent. Yet, Chris nailed it on the first visit, and you’ll hear the story by the second appearance as well. So here’s this moment where a young man walks out who, as he put it, did not look the part of the hypnotist.

He’s wearing jeans, he’s wearing a hooded sweatshirt, he’s wearing a blazer, and at some point he takes it off. You’ll hear why in that, in the upcoming interview conversation, and basically in the span of worked out to only be about maybe a three or four minute clip on America’s Got Talent, suddenly this man that many people around the world knew he does not shake people’s hands was on stage, shaking the hypnotist hand in a brief demo in a brief span of time.

Here was this man who would normally not do that, shaking hands. And then even further out in the audience, shaking the hands of the fellow judges as well. And if you have not seen the clip, head over to the show [email protected]. And as impressive as the initial handshake is when you see the reaction on the faces of the fellow judges, whether it’s in this case Howard Stern, Mel B from originally Spice Girls and Heidi Clue when you see the reaction on their face, that’s what really sold this moment.

Now, this is a moment that became a little polarizing in the hypnosis profession because anybody with an internet connection, of course, has an opinion. Now, I’ll be open and tell you that I was on the pro side from day one, because as early as the clip was out there, and I was hearing about it, oddly enough from clients, as much as I’m constantly on Facebook and social media streams, I heard about it from a client before I ever saw it online because the phone was already starting to ring.

You know, let’s take it from the perspective for right away. Someone did something incredible using hypnotism on television and any hypnotist around the world, their phone began to ring likely in response to this, I had calls in the dozens. You’ll hear Chris mention he had letters and messages in the thousands.

So likewise as well, if you have an internet connection, you have an opinion. So of course there were others with differing opinions as well. And what I was really happy about was, I’ll tell you in advance before I started this recording, you’re about to listen to, I asked Chris politely if there’s anything I shouldn’t go into, and he gave me full license to go into anything and everything, and you’ll hear that the reason that this is gonna come to you in its full unedited.

Is, I’ll share with you the aftermath. The in note of this conversation, it began Chris, his girlfriend we’re here in my office. They were visiting in the area. We got together, we looked at his girlfriend and said, We’ll just be about 20 minutes. We recorded for more than an hour. As you’re about to listen to, Trust me, stick with it.

As much as I interview him, he interviews me as well. It’s a great one. And what I said to him as we wrapped up dinner was a comment that I want you to hear very carefully that you’ll hear my passion towards continued learning in this recording. And as much as I have that, I don’t want you to, to ever forget that almost sense of fearlessness.

That we have when quote, we don’t yet know enough to know better, if that makes sense. You know, we often find this place that, okay, I’ve just learned this new technique. I’m gonna use that on this next client. And we go into that session and we are fearless, we are excited. But then all of a sudden, this little age of reason starts to kick in and we find this place where as much passion as we had toward it early on, we start to chip where our own magic of the process to say it in one way.

So we find this place where we begin fearless, but then quote, we know enough to know better. , and I think that’s something that every hypnotist should go back to. You know, I put out a project a while ago all about testing convincers, and I’m very open with the bold claim that this is a category of work that I am a hundred percent successful on.

And I say that not to brag, not to boast, but I’ve developed systems to go into those methods and apply the quote moment of testing when I’m absolutely certain I’ve got the intended result. That’s not to say that I just don’t do them with certain clients because I don’t think they’ll work. No, I use them with everybody, but I don’t go for the testing moment until I’m over that initial testing phase of knowing, okay, we’ve got it.

This is gonna go, this is golden. This is going to work. So in many ways that was something that I was interested to chat with Chris about, and you’ll hear this in the record. About going out there on stage. He could not rehearse that moment and I’ll say it, he nailed it. So if you have not yet seen the clip, it’s the one time I’ll tell you to pause this recording, go watch it, and then come back and listen to us unpack it for the next hour.

Here we go. Session number 56. Chris Jones has got talent.

I saw a hypnotist come to my college, University of Wisconsin lacrosse and he did a show and it was good. Um, and the second time, no, I lied. I thought it was a good show. I was on stage and the guy next to me was hypnotized deep. And as he’s counting down like last two numbers, he hits me on the head, like with his head.

he’s unconscious. And he goes and sleep. And I look around, I’m like, I’m not asleep, but I closed my eyes and I kind of, and I faked the show. But everyone was laughing and they’re like, Oh man, you’re incredible. And I was intrigued. I was like, Was he was hypnotized. I could tell. And then I saw another hypnotist come who wasn’t as good, and he did pretty much the same skits.

And then I saw third hypnotist come and he did the same skits. And then I invited one out to eat with me. And, uh, he was a little braggadocious. And, um, he was telling me about his paycheck and he asked me to do a car trick for him. And I did ambitious card routine as magician would, and he wasn’t impressed.

And that humiliated me. And, uh, and then I took his job, . Um, and I, I started doing the shows that he didn’t do because, you know, he was a little bit older and, uh, He just wasn’t a hip with the young kids. And I was 23 and I had a, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m not a white male hypnotist. I’m a brown skin hypnotist.

And they’re like, Oh, he’s edgy, he’s urban. So I had all these college dates because I wasn’t, uh, urban or edgy hypnotist. I wasn’t edgy, I was just not white, not, I didn’t look a certain way. So I wasn’t impressed by a hypnotist. I saw ’em doing the same show. I thought they were overpaid and I became a hypnotist.

And then America’s got talent happened. Yeah. And people are talking to me. Yeah. Now leading up to that, you were working quite a bit already. Uh, I was in college, I was a magician. And then in grad school I had a master’s in recreation. Mm-hmm. Cause I didn’t know what I wanna do with my life. Um, I still don’t, I was doing magic at bars and kinda like you, I didn’t like the idea of having to keep a secret.

I’m very bad keeping secrets. So I learned. Hypnosis because you don’t need to keep the secret. You can literally tell people what you’re doing and there are no props. No, I love that. I was bad for the same reason of, No, here’s, this is how it works. Yeah. You like that? No, I don’t want You think I’m special.

I’m not special. You could do it too. Here, here’s a fake thumb. It’s all you need. If you named another card, this is how the trick would’ve ended. Yep, exactly. And uh, yeah, so doing bar magic, uh, wineries in southern Illinois, Carbondale, where I went to grad school, and next thing you know, I wrote to the agency, I now work for Bash Schuler Entertainment.

And I said, I’m a hypnotist. And they called me back and they said, You seem like you’re good, slight unseen. If you’re good, we’ll get you shows. And if you’re not good, you’re fired. We don’t sign contracts with you. And I said, Well, then I’ll be good. And they booked me like 12 shows in a month. And I was like, I can’t keep this regular job.

and do hypnosis. So moved all my stuff outta my apartment, moved into my dad’s place and he was like, What’s going on? I said, Well dad, I’m gonna be a hypnotist. And he pooped a brick . He was very anxious. I was like, No dad, it’s been done. I’m gonna do this. I already have a degree, two degrees under my belt.

This is gonna be my new job. And it was one of the best decisions of my life. Nice, nice. So let’s lead up then, uh, cuz most people know you from the appearance on America’s Got Talent. Yeah. So kind of walk me through, first of all, the lead up towards that. Uh, America Got Talent. They, I think they emailed me and they were like, We’re from America’s Got Talent.

And they said, Audition in Nashville. And I was like, All right, cool. So I, they gave me some dates and I canceled a show and I flew into Nashville and I, I interviewed, uh, performed in front of a producer and didn’t do well. And I felt devastated and I waited a month or two and then they had trouts again in November and I did quite well.

Mm-hmm. . They had you in front of one person, then a second person, and then they filmed the third thing. No celebrities still, but you’re in front of a camera. And I, and there was a room of seven people. Cause they don’t let you bring in people, right? You’re just stuck in a room with one person and you can’t interact.

So if you’re trying to do mentalism or whatever, you have to read the person to that one person’s mind. And with the room of seven people, I got one hypnotized and I, I, it was, it was sweet. And then they flew me to DC and uh, that was a high Mandel episode and that went very well. That was my first time meeting.

I’m literally on stage. You don’t get to meet the judges beforehand. Yeah, it’s for a million dollars. So there was no cheating going on. I walked off stage after you shook hands, feeling like a million dollars. Like I win the whole thing. I felt so happy. And, uh, yeah. What was your question, ? It was just a surreal moment.

It was super great. Yeah. Oh, they, I, I told they have to, you have to send them videos of what you’re gonna do. Mm-hmm. . So before I knew that I could do it, I had no doubt that I could or couldn’t. I just felt like you wanna see something that’s impossible. I make Harry Mandel shake hands, but Heidi Clem on a roller coaster make Howard Stern unable to talk.

and Mel be fall in love with me. And I said, We like the Howie idea. Yeah. So they’re like, film it cuz you have to submit your ideas with film. Mm-hmm. . And so I pretended with a friend that you, you’re Howie Mandel and now you’re gonna shake my hand. You kind of give him like a storyboard type. Right? Yeah.

But that was all improvised. I run in the room right now with my friend Ruby, and we’ve been dating for a bit. Um, I couldn’t sleep the night before and I just went out for a run at like midnight and she’s asleep and I just was running and I said, All right, this is what you’re gonna do. And he’s gonna shake hands this way.

And this is a plot and. , you’re gonna tie in the whole Bobby’s world thing. Mm-hmm. , make him a five year old cuz that’ll work with this induction you’re gonna do. And they didn’t show the induction on TV for obvious reasons. And people were asking me afterwards hit chest like, What was your induction? How would you do that?

And I’m like, Well make your own up. Yeah. I’m not gonna tell you because that was awesome. And it worked and it was real. Um, I’d love to ask, uh, how certain of it working were you going inside? If you watch it again? My voice cracks. Yes. Uh, it, it cracks and you can see cuz the Ida was, I was gonna shake his hand and the rest of it just, I was on stage for half an hour.

It just snowballed. It snowballed. It was two skits in one. I resemble this rapper who looks like Drake, or I beg your pardon? I resemble a rapper. His name is Drake. Mm-hmm. , very popular Canadian rapper for the young kids. Uh, I don’t try to, it’s just my face, but. . I had him with me and I made him go sleep.

And I didn’t know how strong it would work. I didn’t know if he was gonna shake my hand or not. So I hypnotized people in the audience with a voiceover so I would be the rapper, Drake. So people in the audience were getting knocked out left and right and I threw off my blazer and I played the music and I lip sang to the song and people are cheering and screaming and I go back on stage and Howard gave me the X.

Mm-hmm. . And I go, Okay, hi. When you wake up this time I’m wearing gloves. Cuz I asked the producers, they’re like, Yeah, he’ll shake your hand if you’re wearing gloves. And just every bit of little inside information I could get. I knew that his wife got hypnotized to get over a fear of flying, so I knew he believed in it.

Yeah. And just having all this outside information about more or less, the client made it work. Yeah. You had parameters that would make it acceptable. It, it’s the, it’s the. hypothetical game that people would often play about. Could you get someone to do something in hypnosis? They normally wouldn’t. And the hypothetical they normally would present is if when they open their eyes, they’re told, here’s the scenario.

And could you know the, the classic example would be, could you get someone to give you their pin number of their ATM card? Yeah. Yeah. And they play this hypothetical game of if the moment you open your eyes, the first person you see is perhaps your sp And you hear this hypothetical, I’ve yet to see someone ever actually do it though.

Here’s a scenario where you had enough information going into it to build the hypothetical Yeah. To at least edge it towards that success it became, And uh, I guess tying into that, I’m not a therapeutic hypnotist. I did college shows and comedy shows and that induction I would just do with the biggest guy in the.

I would just say, Who’s the biggest guy in the room? You, you play any sports? It was like, Yeah, I play football, I played chess. Come on up here, . And I’m like, How much do you weigh? Uh, 300 pounds. All right, We’re about the same size. I say, Have your arms up like this. Resist. Don’t let me move your hands at all.

Resist. And then I said, Relax your arms. How are you right now? 18, 20, whatever. How he said, he was like 40 or 50. I said in my hand, There’s a clock. They’re gonna go back in time. Make you five years old. Because two things happen when you’re five. You laugh uncontrollably and there’s no strength in your body.

And that’s where this kit usually ends. Mm-hmm. . And it more or less ended there for how he as well. But I’ve done that a hundred times. You look at the clock, relax and let go deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper. And now arms up again, same placement of my hands, resist. And there’s no strength in their arms. And I said, Chin towards your chest and remain standing and go to sleep.

and that’s pretty much the induction. Mm-hmm. , like, there’s a secret to that that I’ll share with you, a little later. And, uh, but it’s your body’s mechanics. What I’m doing is putting their body in a position where they cannot hold their arms up. Mm-hmm. like when you do the hands together Yeah. And your fingers are magnets.

That’s where your fingers want rest. They want rest. So I wanna find every piece of body mechanic where that would happen naturally, but I’d tell you a story behind it. Mm-hmm. and, Well, in many ways it’s, I, I would phrase it that there’s more than one way to give suggestion. Right. That suggestion can also be movement in a moment of doing an arm lock testing convincer, there’s a moment where I’m gesturing by tapping their fist.

Yet what I’m really doing there is also. Comfortably, let’s modify the word, shoving their arm back into the socket, which kind of locks it into that position. Yeah, right. Exactly. And by doing that, it’s, And some would say that then you’re not actually doing it. It’s like, Yes, we are, because we’re giving the suggestion by feeling by kinesthetic as well.

If it’s, if it’s a Dave Ment induction and there’s the whole moment of, I’ll pick up the arm and let it fall, let it plop. Um, I would have the problem of the client’s hands slowly lowering down. And it just came down to, I gave them the sound effect. Oh, that’s deep. And by doing the sound effect, I got the response.

So not Carson did that with, uh, comedy. If he told a joke, but he wasn’t too confident about it, he’d touch his hand to his stomach. And that action created applause and laughter, Mostly laughter. But he’s like, Oh, this is not a great joke. Haha. And then they would reflectively laugh. Yeah. And yeah. Hmm.

That’s deep. Well, it’s making use of anything you can Right. To also edge in the process. Right. Which, if, if we wanted to unpack everything, it kind of began with a little bit of an eye fixation, began with a counting backwards deepener, um, and then followed by the physiological stunt of the arms getting weaker.

Right. Which is just getting that foot in the door even further to by the time you go to the ultimate moment of that suggestion. And the moment that we’re here also talking about, um, you already had the foot firmly in the door. Right. There’s just one more suggestion to accept. Yeah. And I, I really thought this kid was gonna end with me shaking his hand.

Go back to your seat. Uh, but then we woke him up and he was not happy, like they edited for tv, but he dropped two F bombs. Uh, he, he’s, he’s like, no f and way, and then he is like, I know we’re on tv. I’m not supposed to say this, but f you. And I lost my mind. I was like, Yeah. How Mandel said F you to me. Yes.

This is awesome. And then Heidi Km was like, Can you fix this? So he’s not like this forever. Um, inside information told me that she tried to be hypnotized to quit smoking, and it wasn’t successful, so I knew I shouldn’t work with her at all. Mm-hmm. sidebar. Um, and I was like, Yeah, yeah. So I wrote on a sheet of paper, uh, go to sleep, and he went to sleep again.

And then there’s sort like, We wanna shake his hand, we wanna shake. I’m like, All right. So the skit was literally evolving then. And so the only reason it was successful, and this isn’t me bragging, is because I came from a background of comedy and learning to improvise a bit like they picked the wrong card.

All right, I’m gonna call it to the top, and now it’s their right card. So I was ready and had for it to go. Now the second episode didn’t go very well because I did the same thing. I did my Drake routine. I made half the audience think that I was Drake. But Michael Blue, straight up Bule, uh, just fooled the heck on me.

I thought he was under, um, cuz he, I was on stage for maybe 20 minutes or so and he was there with his chin down and during the skid. And if you watch that again, you’ll see I’m wearing a blazer. I come out very excited and then I get the one x when he goes, I am deeply hypnotized and how he, how it stern gives me the X.

No other judges gimme an X cause I was doing entertaining stuff before that. I’m in a blazer button down, next thing you know I’m wearing a T-shirt and something happened. Yeah. Cuz I was only two minutes long. So when people were, I saw comments, it doesn’t hurt my feelings. They’re like, well, you just been more prepared and you’re immature.

You know, you’re not a therapist, you’re not a hypno therapist. You don’t know what you’re. You’re right. I’m not a hypnotherapist. Um, I don’t know how I do the things that I do, but I can do them and I’m willing and able to learn as soon as possible. So I had a plan. I was gonna be entertaining, but, uh, it was a good thing because if it wasn’t for how Mandel ambu bla, I could have gone on a different path, just straight up comedy.

A thousand people wrote me after that, helped me lose weight, quit smoking, made my wife love me again, made my son brush his teeth. And I’m just like, I don’t want, like, I’m not always religious, but I was like this, if this is how Jesus or God feels, this is horrible. All these hapless people who are good people, just saying, You’re my only hope, you have to help me.

I’ve tried everything. And I’m like, I, I I wish I could help you. Jim Wand, Dr. Jim w he, I said, What should I do? And he said, Introduce them to the national good of hypnosis. Tell them to go to that website. And I was like, Well, that’s a great help. Thank you for that. Um, but I still wanna learn how to help people with this because I’m in a privileged position where I can help people.

Uh, I already make money as an entertainer. I literally, these messages are so sad and they come in and my agents get ’em and they forward them to me and they’re like, Oh, this person weighs 400 pounds. There’s a woman who, who wrote to me, she’s afraid of the word guy. Anytime she hears the word guy, she’s just like a breakdown.

So she can’t go out in public. She’ll hear it on tv and she just, she’s like calling me. I’m like, Well, you have to come see me cuz I’m on the road all the time. She’s like, Why I can’t drive, because I’m afraid to drive and I’m, I’m unemployed and I’m on disability. And I’m just like, if, is it worth my time, your time for me to hypnotize you to help you over that?

Because you still won’t leave the house, You still can’t drive a car. But if I give you that success, maybe it’ll change your whole life and maybe you’ll, you’ll have a whole new, your quality of life will go up so much more. Well, I think that’s part of how, and I’m glad we could, we could have this chat here cuz there, there was a very polarized response, right to the original appearance.

Uh, my take on it was that I was here in this office. I mean, we’re, we’re here sitting in my Virginia hypnosis office in Virginia where I do hypnosis, clever name right? . And, and it was a week though that, um, admittedly, as much as I’m way, as much as I’m on the Facebook a little too much as I’m, as much as I’m getting things online and was an avid watcher of America’s God talent.

And moments like, Oh, Derek Hughes, he gave me a ride to Magic Camp. Yeah. Derek Hughes. Mo moments like that. Um, I kind of came into the clip pretty late, uh, because it was one of these weeks where people were calling and they were saying, I saw this. Yeah. I have this issue. So as many thousands of messages you got, I’m sure there were tens of thousands more Yeah.

That were reaction to it. That in many ways it fit into the context of what people’s expectation of hypnosis really is. That in the moment, suggestion, the reality shifted. And another option was possible. Um, where yes, there were some TV appearances afterwards. Yes, there were some stories afterwards, yet people saw that foot in the door moment really occur.

And a lot of people out there, like I said, for as many reached out to you, they were reaching out to people like me, other hypnotist as well. And that was their intention. So it’s the same argument at times about. At, at some events you would hear the hypnotherapy community badmouthing the stage hypnotist.

Yet in many ways, Well, you and I are two people who first encountered hypnosis from a stage hypnotist. Right. And as I have clients here in the office, a couple a dozen a week passing through, where did you first learn about hypnosis? They consistently say stage hypnosis. So it’s where the hypnotherapist with an anti stage hypnosis mindset really doesn’t appreciate the history of their profession, in my opinion.

Right. I don’t think you can find a clinical hypnotist pure, just clinical, help you with the problems in front of 700 people in a day. Like unless you’re doing some type of stage entertainment. Yeah. Tony Robbins is a hypnotist in terms of what I view of him. He’s a hypnotist, but the people who see him pay $700 a night for, for one day just to be in the room with him.

people who have everyday, I don’t know if we call ’em like blue collar problems or white collar problems. Just everyday people making $10 an hour. They need our help, but they can’t afford Tony Robbins. Mm-hmm. and they wouldn’t have access or the awareness that we can help them unless there was stage hypnosis.

That’s my opinion. Yeah, no, it’s the same conversation about there are some who would be against, uh, and Tony’s a good example because if you can’t afford the $700 in a room with him, you can pay these 1795 at the Barnes and Noble and get the book version, get the audio first. Right. That’s a good point.

Yeah. And for the same argument, there are some hypnotists who would say, never, ever, ever do these home audio programs. They’re not as effective as live sessions. Oh, don’t you dare do group sessions cuz they’re, And your posture spells it out. , I just crossed my, like for the viewer at home , that was the posture of, I don’t believe that for a second.

No, because it comes down to there are people who. I, I would even go so far as to say it’s not even just a financial decision. There were some who you could be delivering the best of pre-talk and they would not come to this private office and sit behind closed doors, right? With a person who they’ve perceived to have this and hear the air quotes of power towards.

Yet they can, as they can achieve success with these home versions of it, right? They can achieve success with these group audios. They can see an appearance on TV and go, I don’t have to have this issue anymore, right? Let me look into see what I can do about that. This will be a brag and I’m okay with that.

Um, the reason I want to help you is because I want to help people. I’m very privileged. My parents did everything they could for my sister and myself. Um, I grew up in a good part of Chicago. Uh, I went to a high school where a lot of professional athletes went to high school, and we expect excellence and you do the right thing, not because.

people are watching do it because it’s the right thing to do. So I want to help people. So I don’t charge people when I meet with ’em for hypnosis twofold. One, I don’t know what to charge ’em. And two, I don’t feel like you should get paid for doing the right thing. But you have doctors who save lives and they get paid handsomely.

That makes sense. I can get six figures and do it all the time for the last five years, just being a comedy hypnotist. Mm-hmm. . So when I meet someone after the show and they’re like, Hey, I have a weight problem. I’ll be with them the next week face to face, just because I want to help them. And I, I literally, all I can say is, I don’t want your money.

Is that a good business model? Nope. . Uh, it’s the worst thing ever. But, you know, this is a bad point to say, we’ll put contact information and personal phone numbers and Yeah, you just call me anytime you want. I, I just wanna help you. No, I, you know, we’re all on this planet together and no one figured it out.

I’m looking at your, your library here behind me in so many books I’ve never heard of before, but even you haven’t read every book that’s out there? No. So no one has all the answers of, you know, we work together. Literally I’ll buy people meals and that will be like the best resource that I can do.

Picking their brains to, uh, Ron Eslinger, who’s been on this program before that. I love his line about, he reads books, he goes to conventions to remind himself how much he doesn’t know. Right. That I, I will host a lot of guest trainings in this area and I can very openly admit that there are people who have kind of distanced myself from over the years.

Because he’ll be something, he’ll be something that we’re hosting and I’ll get the feedback of, Oh yeah, I did that years ago. Right? Yeah. And when I was the nerd that would want to go back and take some of the same classes over again, that I, I took this training years ago. I’ve now been working consistently ever since and on on one side to go back and go, Oh, good.

That was my technique. I did invent that. But at the other side of things too, to see what, what progression had been occurring. Right. Or again, to notice, and this is a big thing in hypnosis, how much extra crap had I added that really wasn’t helping mm-hmm. as opposed to sending it down to the essentials and just getting to the result in a more efficient way.

All right. I’m gonna ask you a question and you’re gonna teach me and the other listeners out there who might be in my position, , you’re still young, you came from a comedy or magic background, and you realize that you can help people. You want to help people. And people are saying you have to be in a classroom for 120 hours.

You gotta have 40 hours of this to be certified. What certification would you begin with? That’s my first question. Yeah. Uh, I flash back to a couple of things here. Uh, first of all, unfortunately we’ve entered a climate where the number of hours is the argument and the number of hours I can name, I can name 10 day classes I went to that were pretty good.

They would’ve been phenomenal four day classes. Yeah. I can name three hour workshops I’ve been to at conventions and paid extra money to attend. And, um, it could have been summed up in one sentence and just could have been told, Oh yeah, do this. From now on. I can also name, um, you know, 20 minute chats I’ve had with people that changed everything that I did so, The real statement becomes, as opposed to one training versus another.

There’s, and I’ll generalize this for obvious purposes. There’s a well known hypnosis curriculum that I was invited to train and because I was being told, but you can add your own stuff to it, um, was the idea of just immediately, I have no interest in doing this. Right? That’s, it was the whole, Well, I teach it this way, that’s great, but you have to add it as an extra day at the end.

So my, my best advice for anybody in hypnosis comes back to a Michael Elner quote, Learn from people who disagree with each other. Hmm. Because the interesting thing is, I mean, I’ve got the, the wall candy out here in the hallway and here’s, uh, to pain relief certificates. One from names I’ve mentioned already, Ron Eslinger and Michael Elner, and both of these people would speak very highly of each other yet to be in a session with either one.

It’s a night and day difference. Which one’s correct? Right. We both are right. Uh, here are sessions that I’ve done here where, um, you know, I’m completely modeling something that I heard Richard non guard talk about. And then here’s another session where it’s almost going entirely in the direction of just, he’s, he’s a person who doesn’t make use of as much hypnotic phenomenon.

Um, when I did his recording a couple of weeks ago, began with, Okay, so Jason does age regression and I don’t, to which I will make use of that technique when the case serves it. And here’s the client who comes in and it’s every reason not to mm-hmm. . So it’s, it’s that mindset back to even back to the magic world of we would buy all these books, We would, oh my gosh, videos.

Wow. That’s deep. Where it would become, And the argument was made at one point, and you can probably pick out the names here, uh, but it was a guy by the name of Phil Goldstein who goes by Max Maven. Max Maven, who would quote that you would not want to go see the performer, open up his Dolly Parton, do the next song as Mel Tome.

Can you guess when this reference was made, would then make the next, uh, thing in the style of, um, you know, perhaps a Barry Manalow and just all over the board in terms of style. Yet there’s ways that we can pull ingredients. There’s ways that we can find these little nuances That right. You know, if it’s the secret move with a card and if your pinky finger is here rather than there, wow, that makes it a lot easier.

So it’s where I would encourage anybody in hypnosis to look at the greater context of what’s being taught. It’s where scripts are training wheels. Scripts are I, I would phrase this, a script at its core should really be a transcript of what that person did in that session. And then maybe you learn a little bit more in the footnotes about what the presenting issues were.

Similar to how you had a little bit of advanced knowledge that helped you with Howie Mandel and to look at the ways that we were able to use that little bit of knowledge. So here’s my client in the chair that I know as a computer programmer and game on. Here’s a whole category of things I can refer to by way of metaphor.

That he’s gonna get, he’s gonna understand, here’s my smoker that came in and suddenly we were doing the entire stop smoking process about conspiracy. because he was convinced that the same people pouring their money into the cigarettes and the same people pouring their money into the pharmaceuticals and they’re trying to kill me either way.

And I heard a hypnotic contract. So it’s where, in terms of training, it’s where the phrase really becomes, get ravenous. Mm-hmm. for this stuff. Okay. Uh, as much as you’re traveling, I mean, I’m the mobile university . I had the moment of panic. I only lived 10 miles from here, but I had the moment of panic because my iPhone cable would not connect my phone to my car on the 10 minute drive here.

And I’m going, Here’s this workshop I wanna listen to on the ride. And I couldn’t. So it’s sitting in the cup holder now on full blast on my phone. So it’s just the mindset of surrounding yourself. Mm-hmm. with this information, become passionate, become ravenous around it. Um, I would say the ideal training would be one that doesn’t try to pitch.

One specific, let’s call it gospel of hypnosis. Now don’t move. Yeah. I’m gonna hold you accountable. Yeah. We need sheets of paper for both of us. So for the next people podcasting. , your podcast shouldn’t be 25, 30 minutes. It needs to be an hour. Cuz right now the wheels are turning in both our minds. , I need piece and paper.

Pen and paper for the next person. Yes. This is the delightful use the cause you’re giving us so much goodness. The back of the holiday greeting card from my uh, real estate company here, . So yeah, it’s where surrounding yourself with the information so, It, it’s where I think the answer of ever being one specific training is not the answer.

There’s, there’s a well known hypnosis protocol that many, like many others, has, uh, either a Facebook group or a Yahoo group associated with it. And I unsubscribe from it the day that someone asked a question, and I’ve got a client coming for this issue with their sports, what’s a good metaphor that I could use?

Mm-hmm. , which is a great question. You know, what’s a possible lead in to this? What is this like? Is the method of figuring out a metaphor? And I saw someone in that group respond. You never need metaphors for that issue. Just use this technique you’ve already learned. And that was the day that I saw someone stifling someone else’s learning, which granted, here came a client that week for me that I did the entire session.

All pain relief, all by way of metaphor, all what we could often nickname an ericsonian model of hypnosis, of talking through the filters of a story to indirectly address their issue. Meanwhile, the exact same day, here’s a guy that if I went in that direction at all, he’d open his eyes and go, Did you forget why I was here?

I’m here to quit smoking. He wanted the most literal of process possible. Hmm, okay. Which is correct. They both are okay. The answer is, it really depends on who’s in front of you. I’m gonna hit you with a few questions. Brilliant. And uh, it’s just gonna be rapid fire and this will show you how I guess wet on the years.

I still am cuz I’m such an amateur. I’m, again, I won’t claim to be a therapeutic chemist cuz I’m not.

How long is your quote unquote usual session with a person? My first session, the short answer first, the longer I’ve done this, the more efficient I’ve become, Not efficient in terms of bang through it to bring the next one in. Cuz actually I schedule plenty of time for my sessions. Yet the more that I do this, the more I’m weeding out the essential weeding out the un essential junk.

Like when you first got here, I made fun of the fact that your ankles were crossed and I said, You can’t sit like that at blocks a clean flow of energy to which some people may have that in their belief system, that we have to have a, what they would consider be a clean flow of energy. My argument back would be the mental filter going, My foot is falling asleep and I wanna move it and I don’t know if I can, that probably means this isn’t working for me.

Now I would argue that little negative mental chatter is stronger than whatever flow of energy you were trying to. Okay. That little nocebo filter of this isn’t gonna work because, So nowadays, my first session with a client is typically a full hour and a half, and then sessions after that, typically about an hour, maybe hour 15 on average.

Okay. When I first started, I was maxing out of full two hours with every client. The other side of it, . And, uh, now that you’ve consistently said you’re not a therapist, , you’ll, you’ll hear this phrase positively. Uh, we are hypnotists. Yeah. We are not necessarily talk therapists. Now, an asterisk to that would be that if we’re in a conversational hypnosis model mm-hmm.

if we’re in a waking hypnosis, uh, NLP style, perhaps if you were working with specific intention, then let that quote intake interview time last as long as it needs to go. Because that’s the model that if I’m chipping away at the structure of this problem and then perhaps only doing hypnosis to reinforce the change that I’ve already conversationally hypnotically produced.

So work with intention. But when I hear people say, I do a three hour intake, I’m hearing you’re digging the hole deeper and convincing yourself the issue might be too big to be overcome. Wow. So, Context over content. How do you feel now? How would you rather feel? Right? What are those things you’re doing now?

What are those things you’d rather be doing? And from those filters we get directly to the scope of the issue. Um, where otherwise we might be off in this tangent in another direction. Uh, the client may come in and say, I have this fear of flying because this happened to me when I was 19 years old. And do you know the comedian Emo Phillips?

No. Okay. You’ve seen uhf? Yep. Okay. He’s the guy who cuts his thumb off. Got you. Yeah. Uh, he has a great joke about, I used to think the brain was the most intelligent organ of the human. Then I realized who was telling me that, Ah, nice. . So the client comes in with a rationalization as to quote why they have the issue.

Mm-hmm. maybe? Yes, maybe, but then again, maybe not. And here’s the client I had here that she quoted when she was 19 years old. She was on a crash landing. And in the session she brought me to this experience, uh, being locked in a small closet, the little Harry Potter room under the stairs. And when I told her to follow that feeling to a time you felt that way before, so we can release that feeling, we completely skipped over that airplane experience.

Hmm. So where if we’re following a regression model, that was perhaps the ise, the core of that feeling. But then again, here’s the client who came in later that week that we didn’t go that direction at all. And it’s through the experience of training, through the experience of seeing a lot of clients, you just get that gut intention about this is the direction to go.

This like, like you told the story about. You were going into that Howie Mandela appearance with him, he’s gonna shake my hand. And I’d imagine that was the punchline, but then it kept going. Right? I just stumbled into that. Yeah. And I don’t know if that takes me back, but, but I’d say that, that kind of way of thinking about the, the process of hypnosis that I want to get into the work without being short, without being mm-hmm.

abrupt. Ah, okay. So pause, Don’t move. Yes. What you’re saying there, we talked about this a little bit before we started this dialogue, recorded dialogue. Um, I wish I, Some people, so some people come into your office and they’re like, Oh, I’m, I’m fat and it’s because my boyfriend and, and this, and Andy’s emotionally abusive, and I just, I wanna lose the weight, but he’s not helping me.

And you’re like, Well, you had a weight problem before the boyfriend didn’t you, So let’s stop talking about that. You find a way to artfully get to that artfully Yes. . And my thought process is, You’re, you’re not a doctor, but how would a doctor act if someone came in and they were shot in the stomach and they said, Oh my God, I’m gonna die.

I need you’re, you’re the only doctor within miles. I’m gonna bleed to death. If you don’t help me, you gotta help me. All right. I’m gonna help you. Here we go. Let me tell you about the guy who shot me first. Right? Yeah. And you’re like, No, I’m not. No. That’s emotionally draining for you and for me. Let’s get the bullet out.

Let’s get you healed as quickly as possible. Second question. Uh, I’ve been told that you can’t work with people who have depression, post-traumatic stress syndrome. Is that true? You feel not true? Well, it’s where we’re gonna wanna pull in some ethical guidelines. Mm-hmm. , uh, to, on one side of things, protect ourselves as well as protect our clients, um, in a similar yet different category.

And I love this story cuz it makes me sound really clever. Uh, but it’s a guy who called me up and, um, Hi. His statement was because, because the danger is hypnosis dangerous. And I would argue no, hypnosis is a tool. Um, you can’t, and this can go off in a whole direction. You can outlaw hammers because someone has killed somebody with a hammer.

Right? Hmm. Leave it at hammers for this conversation. Right. That, that’s fine, that’s fine. Uh, but you could also, hammers can save lives. Exactly. . Um, good guy with a hammer. So, but you can hammer in the nail that’s kind of rusted over into the deck and now the kid is not gonna cut his foot, get tetanus and the problems gonna get worse.

Mm-hmm. , the hammer can be used well, uh, the only danger is if the tool is not used correctly. So the biggest danger and nearly every organization would back me up with a statement. The only danger of the hypnotist working with those potential issues would be that it could possibly delay something else that may have been helpful.

Okay. So it’s where. , and this one’s not too extreme, but it’s kind of a fun example. Guy calls me up and I’ll change the name here, obviously. Um, yeah, I’ve been having these voices in my head and they’re getting kind of violent and now they’re telling me to do things and I’m, I’m kind of feeling the urge to do these things now.

Can you help me with that? And I wanna build rapport, but I also wanna guide him in the right direction. Right? In this case, I had an ace in the hole because I knew of a psych psychiatrist in the area whose specialty is dissociative personality disorder. So my response to him was, Oh yeah, I could probably help you with that, but I think my friend Jeff would be a better fit.

Would you like Jeff’s number leaving out that changing name? Jeff is Dr. Jeff Simpson and here’s his office number. Um, and I just gave him the phone number as it was like, yeah, I met Chris, you know, Chris was in town and here’s his number. Give him a call. I kind of treated the interaction in that format.

And I got a phone. You’re a wizard . And I got a phone call about that. Would’ve been terrified. I’m so sorry. Well, I mean, I got a phone call about six months later and yes, he called me a smart ass, but he thanked me because he goes, If you told me you were sending me to a doctor to put me on meds, I would’ve hung up the phone on you.

Right. He goes, But until I drove to this guy’s office and realized where I was, Well, I’m this far, Oh wow. He’s now been on a medication and the issue has completely resolved itself. Hmm. Um, there are things that I am gonna be the first to say I am not an expert on. Um, I mean, I’ve had extremes. I mean, seeing the number of clients I’ve seen over the years, uh, here’s a woman that she’s in my office and I had to look at her and say, Based on everything you’ve told me, the only reaction to the session today could possibly be that I can make you feel better about what your husband is doing to you.

that you’ve sat here yourself and said he shouldn’t be doing. Uh, so that’s the possible hypnotic outcome, and I don’t think either of us feels comfortable with that. I, I don’t think you should be in this office today. Understand from the ethics of my profession and for the protection of me, I can’t be the one to tell you where to go next.

Okay. But I think you’ve already figured that out for yourself, haven’t you? And she took care of things, and he’s no longer in the p picture to put it politely. So it’s where I don’t want to delay something that’s gonna be beneficial in another format. Um, the, the anecdote would be that some people would, the reference would be, The person coming in for weight loss, that the moment you see them, you can tell perhaps in some sort of bulimia, some sort of anorexia.

Mm. And I don’t want to be the last I’ll, I’ll say it frankly, I don’t wanna be the last office that they were in before they made another mistake and the story ended badly. Right. So in many cases, um, luckily to use the term lightly, when these people call me, they’re very often under the care of someone else.

Okay. Now, my style of handling it is let’s get everybody on the same team. Right? So there’s a letter that I’m gonna send your doctor, and I’m just looking for a signature. Um, in the words of a name I’ve already referenced, Michael Elner, um, referral nowadays is medical code speak for liability. Hmm. So, I’m not even going near that word.

I’m looking for. The equivalent of a, a thumbs up. A gentle consent. Yeah, that I’m looking for the acknowledgement that you know, that we’re working together and you see no conflict with this. The acknowledgement that we’re working together and you see no conflict, and it’s basically the letter that’s fantastic that I’m using because in that context now what happens for me classically now is perhaps the phone rings.

And here’s a calmer example of this. This woman was coming to me for weight loss and because she was on so many meds for being diabetic, the doctor calls me, she goes, I don’t understand how you’d help with this. And then we were able to have a good 20 minute conversation about, well, she wants to curb some of her sweet tooth.

She wants to eat some of the healthier items. She mentioned that you prescribed some exercises and she hasn’t been doing them. So she wants to work with me to have better compliance with you. All right. And I heard this beautiful pause followed. Can I send you like 10 more people this week? Fantastic. And she sent me like six or seven.

So it’s where, from an evolutionary standpoint, we as a helping profession should not fall into this us versus them mindset. Mm-hmm. , here’s, here’s a guy that I was seeing that if he had called me on his own, um, I probably wouldn’t have taken him as a client. I probably would’ve felt very comfortable saying, I’m not qualified to help you.

Um, and I’ll generalize the story cuz it is rather specific, but the brother, the twin brother committed suicide in a rather horrible way. Oh. And it’s this guy now going, I’ve now been feeling depressed. I’ve now been feeling this and I’m terrified that my life is gonna end the same way. Now the, the format of this phone call was, this was a psychologist that had already had a professional relationship with, so she was the one referring him to me.

Almost with a bit of a menu of work with him on this, work with him on this. We’re in process on this aspect. Okay. So it’s where I’m gonna wanna make sure that we’re all on the same team. And there have been times where, I mean, and I’ll be even so far defensive of other professions, Here’s someone who came in and they were just complaining, Well, I went to this shrink and they were not qualified to help me.

And one of my favorite quotes is, You’ve gotten a bad haircut before, right? Mm. What’d you do after that? Well, I got a haircut somewhere else. Well, cool. Here’s a couple of names of people that I’ve met over the years. Give them a call. Pick the one you like. Okay. And to sometimes connect them with that resource that’s gonna be a better fit for them.

Okay. Um, where I can honestly say I’ve had clients that I knew I wasn’t a match for. Mm-hmm. . And it was the end of the initial consult. I went, Great. Well here’s a student of mine’s phone number. I think you’d be a better fit for this reason. Right? Here’s this person. So, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that hypnosis is dangerous for those categories because it has been proven to be very effective for those categories.

The challenge would be, and I got a little nasty with someone at a recent convention because they were behind me in line for one of the meals and talking to this person about, don’t believe what the doctor’s telling you about that condition. I can solve that in two sessions of hypnosis. And I just had to turn around and go, You don’t need to be saying that.

Good. You need to be non intervening because what if that was what they needed? Right. You know? Um, where for as many people would say that this issue is overdiagnosed. I would argue the opposite Also, also true. That is my fear. How many people out there are underdiagnosed and that medication might actually be the thing they need.

I’m gonna put a tack right there just for a moment. . And that was my fear. And it is my fear. People are like, Oh, help me lose weight or quit smoking. Quit smoking was the thing. And I said, I’m a, I I could do it. I think I can, but I’m afraid you might pick up a worse habit. Mm-hmm. . And that’s been my fear.

Like, Oh, you’ll quit smoking about, you’re suggesting that. Right. But I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say like, like after a show, I’m like, Oh, you have to talk to a real professional. I can’t do it. And in the back of my mind it’s like, I’ll help you quit smoking. What if you pick up crack? I would feel like horrible.

Or like, yeah, y’all help you with your alcoholism, but then you, you realize you’re depressed and you hurt yourself. Um, so I understand as an amateur, that’s the fear and that’s real fear for us. That is a real, Yeah. Pause. I would point to you just as a footnote to that. Mm-hmm. , um, , a guy whose work I highly respect, uh, Dr.

John Hartland, and he’s most attributed to, um, something called the Ego Strengthening Process, uh, which is some other number of podcast session I actually did in this recording. And he was interesting cuz it was the 1950s. It was the 1960s. He was a psychiatrist, psychologist who also made use of hypnotism.

And the argument of the day was, you can’t take away a behavior because it’s gonna have to come about somewhere else. Even worse. That’s the common argument. Okay? So his premise was ego strengthening. What if we work to boost their confidence, boost their self-esteem, improve their self image of themselves?

And then go after the issue. And his history was he developed something that was really scripted out. He would deliver the same words to his clients over and over and over. And his success was in the high 80 percentile. Hmm. Which was high for the time. Hmm. The other side of it too was that this was a time where hypno analysis was the norm.

You had to regress to quote, find the cause. He was finding the more of this confidence building work that he did, the more he was finding that he didn’t have to go in that direction at all. Right. Now, I’d say in the last. That was 50, 60 years ago in the last 50, 60 years. We have other similar themes. You have people like Richard non guard out there who are putting in a lot of mindfulness work and several others as well.

People who are bringing in more up to date ways of addressing, you know, more live in the present, live in the now, don’t defer the happiness, um, focus on this moment in the present rather than these negative emotional states, which are pointing either backwards or forwards in time. So I would phrase it as to look at that potential challenge as just another nuance of the change, because not only do they have to quit smoking, they have to feel good about it now as well.

Right. Okay. Good. Uh, I’m gonna have you do a couple things quickly. Yeah. You quoted anime share with us that quote again. Oh, I may have misquoted. That’s okay. This one, um, I misspeak all the time. It’s okay. And my magic quotes are horribly out of date cuz I still own three magic books. That’s good. Yeah.

Both Barry Richardson books and Jay Sanky Jayski does great work. Oh yeah. Uh, which would be the line about, might have been Fitz Ski, the Trilogy, Uh, the amateur changes his act, The professional changes his audience, The amateur changes his or her act. Correct. And the professional changes the audience.

Yes. So literally what I can do now, I’m just gonna find a different or bigger, more prestigious audience. Just take what you have now and that’s the best way to go from being amateur to professional. I’ll agree with that a hundred percent. That was great. I wanted to share that with people. But going back just one more bit, I.

When do you meet with people? Do you already record your sessions? Do you videotape your sessions with them one on one? Um, I’ll give you an example. I was listening to Joe Rogan’s podcast. Mm-hmm. , who’s interviewing rapper kid Cutty. And he said, I used to smoke cigarettes. Kid Cutty is speaking and I quit with a hypnotist.

And he’s like, Well, how was that experience? He’s like, Well, it was cool. He was like, Was it strange? Like, well, he came to my house and that’s what he does professionally. And he is like, Were you nervous? Like, I wasn’t nervous. I had a knife under my pillow, , so if you tried anything, I was ready. And he said it a few times, like, there is no joke.

He’s like, If you try anything, I was ready. I had a knife under my pillow if you tried any funny stuff. Yeah. I’m always afraid cuz I do college shows and I’m 29 and it’s routinely young ladies who are like, Help me lose weight, quit smoking. I don’t have self-esteem. I, I lack confidence. I wanna meet with them, but I’m very afraid that they’ll say, You’re in a room with me now.

Mm-hmm. , I’m gonna say, You set this right now. Yeah. Or. Having been at their boyfriend’s, like, You’re in a room with my girlfriend. What happened during that time? Yeah. Do you record it? Do you auto record it? Is there a camera? How do you protect yourself? I mean, on one side of things, it’s a conversation that I don’t like we have to have nowadays.

Right. We’re in a very litigious society and, um, I’m can knock on a fake particle board wood that I’ve really only had one issue here ever, ever. And it was something stupid. I got a phone call from American Express. Yeah. Our customer says that he never authorized a charge for his, uh, payment at your office.

Wow. And that’s fantastic. To which the response was, I just politely asked them, Well, would you like a GPS tagged receipt of a physical swipe of his card along with a video of him signing his credit card? Nice. Wouldn’t hear in my office. I’d be happy to provide that for you. And they went, Oh. Okay. No, nevermind.

So again, my favorite style is to answer everything you didn’t ask. Then I actually answer it, which would be that I, I would have to say, and of all people, It’s a name that we mentioned before we started recording. Uh, Michael Close is a magician that Michael Close, uh, put out a series of books called Workers, and there’s a premise that he would put behind all of his routines.

And it has a fancy French word attached to it. A very similitude, which is the complete, and I’ll butcher the, uh, definition here, but I’ll get it close. It’s the complete absence of any guilt. It’s the moment where he puts the cards on the table. He holds both of his hands up. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And he says, Someone name a card.

Someone name a number. Good. Pick up the deck. Count it down. That card’s at that number. It’s the complete absence of any quote. Funny business. So I think my take, if I can unpack my strategies because of how. Open, I am in my communication, right? Because of how frank I am with people. If they ask, Well, what’s the guarantee?

It’s like, Well, I’m gonna teach you stuff and you don’t wanna pay me to follow you home and make sure you’re doing it, huh? You know, because I’m that open about it. Um, I, I think there’s also a conversation that we as hypnotist need to have with each other that I don’t want to believe in this model of work where people would say hypnosis didn’t work.

Mm-hmm. , because hypnosis is a tool and the tool is only as good as you put it into use. So it’s only as good as the practitioner putting it into use. But then also the client has a role to be a part of as well. And if the practitioner doesn’t explain that aspect of the process to the client, then you’re gonna have a disconnect there and it’s not gonna be that effective.

So, because I completely spell out for my clients what is going to make you so successful, and I also will indirectly reference the stuff that’s not gonna make you successful, um, . It’s how I, and I don’t like this phrase, but I can stand by it. I have received referrals from people who did not have success with me.

Wow. Because they had trust in the process. Mm-hmm. , they had trust in my skills, yet they saw that there was something that needed to change within them. And my style is always, I want you to be happy. You know? Mm-hmm. , when you are comfortable with that aspect of it, and when you have addressed that in your life, or if you want to work with me to help you on that, you got two more sessions that are on me.

So to avoid being sued, what you do is just be as nice as possible because you’re genuine. Yeah. I care about their change. Hmm. So I’m still gonna do the audio recordings. Yeah. Well, could you follow it up by the fact that there’s a camera right next to you? Good. That when I come into my office, I turn it on and when I shut down my computer, it stops the recording and it saves it for that day.

Oh. Uh, I very often get the question. So it’s basically surveillance style, quality video, uh, and it picks up enough video, it picks up enough of the audio maybe every five seconds. It, it has no, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s recording. It’s such a low resolution that it’s, it’s the whole thing. I got you. But because data is now so cheap, I found a flash drive yesterday that, uh, I bought from college that was one gigabyte flashback drive.

Mm-hmm. that, uh, I, I paid $200 for. Wow. And I just then yesterday also bought 128 gig, one for $16. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz times have changed. So I often get the question about how long do I store these videos? And the answer is I dump them to an external hard drive. Yeah. And I never deleted anything. Because storage is cheap.

Storage is cheap. It’s, it’s saved somewhere that I won’t mention here on the recording for . But, and, and that is spelled out very clearly on three of the five pages of my office paperwork so people know it. Uh, I’ve only had one person ever who came in and said, I really don’t want you filming this, though.

I politely say that for every reason she gave me to not film, it was also every reason I had to have the camera on. Right. And it just got to a point of, well, to come to my office and work with me in my office, that is my office policy. Right. So if you’re not comfortable with that, I can recommend someone else in the area.

Right. Good. It, it’s that phrase of I’ve got my bills here at the office. I’ve got the mortgage at home, I’ve got my wife, I’ve got my two kids. And unfortunately I hate to have this conversation nowadays, but it’s the society that we live in. Yeah. If you ever watch King of the Hill, the character that Tom Petty played Lucky was a slip and fall man.

I remember that one. Yeah. Was good. That’s what he did. We were that society nowadays. Um, the question you did not ask was about, uh, resources for clients though, which is where I’m typically gonna give them something not of their entire session to quote, reinforce it. I hate that word reinforcement. Mm-hmm.

reinforcing is saying that, Well, we did it again, we gotta do it again and make it work better. Mm. I’m gonna want to continue the process. Okay. So it’s gonna be some sort of custom recording, some sort of custom resource or preferably a technique that they can use anytime, anywhere, and no one knows they’re doing something.

Let me write this down. Continue the process now. One more thing, two more things. Yeah. First I have to say a thank you, uh, to Richard non guard. I haven’t met the gentleman before, but after America’s Got Talent, I was freaking out a great deal and I think Drunkenly, I wrote him on Facebook and said, Richard, in 29, I’m scared.

I’m single. I don’t have kids. I’m panicking. What do I do with my. And he gave me great direction in like a few words. Then I called him, he was like, Call me whenever you want. Yeah. And he is like, You gotta get your PhD. I’m like, I have a master’s. He’s like, Well you have to get your PhD because title’s gonna mean a lot to a lot of people.

And I was like, All right, now I’m getting after that PhD. So thank you to him. I, Two more questions for you and then I can go in peace. A happy man. And I got one more for you after, Oh God, in heaven. Who I don’t really believe in. Uh, . I’m sorry. It just slips every time I say that. Tell me one thing you do for ongoing training.

It doesn’t have to be hypnosis. I listen to podcast whenever I drive. Yeah, whenever I clean the house. What’s one thing you do for ongoing training? And I’d say that’s, that’s my strategy. Um, the reason I became a podcaster was I was a podcast junkie already. Mm-hmm. . Uh, oddly enough, the other bit of advice that I would share, some people would find a challenge with, uh, I train, I teach.

Uh, there have been times I mentioned the meetup group that I run here, and there have been times over the years where all of a sudden here’s a technique that, uh, an nlp, there’s a thing called the Swish Pattern where you switch out two images really rapidly, one for the other. And it’s a technique that I had used with clients hundreds of times and gotten really cool responses, yet I could not figure out why it didn’t work for.

and I’m a very visual person, so it made sense that it should have worked really well for me. So it came down to, let me just give myself the challenge that in four months I set the date, I’m gonna do a workshop on this technique. I can do it with clients, but I wanted to workshop the hell out of it to a point that I can make it effective for me.

And I can actually give full credit to, uh, I think the book is, No, it’s at home right now. Uh, Jess Marion and Sean Carlson, uh, they have a book called The Swish was when I finally read their book on it, something clicked. So it was more so of to bring it full circle. You walked out on that stage and it just had to work.

Yeah. Yeah. And to position myself in such a way of. It’s gonna work because I’m gonna train this method to people and I need to know what the ends and outs of it enough. And again, it wasn’t a new technique for me at the time. It was something that I’d already done with clients. I trusted in the mechanics of it enough and I knew why it should work.

But the whole, the whole breakup of it was why did it not work for me? So through the exploration of it, it was really, really more for my personal gains to figure out why. So on one side of things, it’s to continuously surround myself with good information. Uh, I go to conventions and I’ll be the first to leave my table that’s paying for the trip to sit in workshops and learn from people who quote, are the greatest hits, , that I know.

This one’s gonna be great. I know I can count on her. She always delivers great information, But then also to find something that. Really got no interest in. And to sit through it and listen to it and really absorb what I can pull out of it. The other is, well, is to constantly challenge myself to position it in a way that it just has to work, right?

It just has to fire off. I’ll tell you really quickly, the only reason why America’s got talent worked is because I put myself in, like you said, in a position where I said, I’m gonna shake his hand. This is gonna happen. And I told them, I have no doubt in myself. And they’ll, and then they’re like, All right, cool.

And I had a whole month to plan and think how this could work and how it couldn’t work. And backfire, Put yourself in a position where you have to succeed, where you’re not looking at failure at all. And I think you improve your odds a great deal, and not even to address it as even failure. It’s like back to the example of.

What made me a not good magician was I was more interested in how cool the secret was. Because if you named this card instead, ooh, that one’s hidden over here. But to have all the multiple outs about where the process could go and how there is no wrong response, Right? It’s how, from a business standpoint, I operate with everything as either being ready or not ready yet.

Ah. And when I filter everything in that perspective, I’ve had clients that have called me up, and then it’s a year and a half later. And because I’m such a nerd for databases, uh, Hey Chris, you called me a year and a half ago about the same issue, and I I called you back three times and you didn’t return my voicemail.

Now I’m, what’s different now? Completely compare. Yeah. Okay. And from that perspective, in many ways, that question tells you everything you should be addressing. Let’s talk about magic just for a brief moment, what you just said. Uh, As a magician, you get a magic set and it has 25 tricks. And then I remember my, these as when I had a magic trick or a book that had 500 tricks, and I said, Mom, I now have a thousand tricks.

And she asked, How many can you perform? I go, No, no, mom, I have a thousand tricks. And she’s like, How many? I’m like, I’m not an amateur. I have a thousand tricks, but the good ones can do six or seven good tricks. Yeah. And that’s it. And that’s, that’s all you need. My people listening to this, do a YouTube search for Mr.

Okay. Marvin Roy, toward the world. Yeah. For so many years with, I think it’s only an eight or nine minute act, there’s a guy who can throw up Sugar and he was on America’s Got Talent six time. I’m not saying he’s good or bad. I haven’t met the gentleman. I think he’s phenomenal. But he’s done it and he’s been doing it on Letterman for years.

Um, you’re gonna ask me a question, then I’m gonna ask you two and then we’re gonna hit the dusty trail. Yeah. Like we said, only 20 minutes. Yeah. Um, so there was a lot of positive response right. To the appearance. Yet there were also a lot with other opinions. Right. Uh, well lay people will say, you send him to therapy, and I just politely say You’re right, but.

He went to therapy before me. He says that he goes to therapy twice a week, and he does that on the regular. He did that before me. He bought a second house to escape the germs in his first house so his family can live in the first house. And he’s in the second house when he feels like they’re particularly dirty that day.

So, and the TV producers knew that I was gonna do that. And to their credit, when I didn’t do well the second time, they had a psychiatrist there and said, Hey, how are you feeling? How are you feeling? And I’m like, Well, I feel really upset. She’s like, Well, I’m the counselor here and if you need anything, just let us know.

And I’m like, Oh, well that’s very thoughtful of me. I’m like, I’m fine. Like I’m relatively an adult, but go talk to the kids who you booted off who are 12. Yeah. And had their little hearts broken. You talk to them, I’m gonna be all right. I’m gonna drink . And I got so drunk that night. Uh, yeah. So the, the feedback, you know, I’m gonna worry about my life.

I’m gonna chase sports hypnosis. Mm-hmm. , uh, I have tattooed on my arm. It says I will win the Chicago Marathon and set a world record. Nice. So that’s on my arm. If from my right hand, if you shake my hand, you read it, you have to hold me accountable. I have to do what people think is impossible cuz Americans do not win marathons these days.

Mm-hmm. , Kenyans, Ethiopians. They do. But I’m gonna try and do the impossible. That’s the go to two more questions for you and then we can hit the dusty trail. Okay. What is the best gift? And again, don’t worry about being humble. Yeah. Don’t, You’re a good man. You’re a smart man. Don’t be humble. What’s the best gift or product that you’re most proud of that you’ve given created?

Uh, I would say, and there’s a funny answer to this because my style is constantly, , let’s change things up. Let’s do it one better. I, I would call it a constant satisfaction with dissatisfaction. Hmm. To use it in a po I’m, I’m, I’m a fan of using positive, I’m a fan of using negative language in a way that serves me and it motivates me.

So I put out a business training program back in 2013 that at the time we’re recording this. Um, I have now taken down the sales page. It did exceptionally well. And I’m very proud of every bit of the content. And anytime I then ran some sort of promo, I did a webinar to produce it, um, I would sell out what I had promised.

We’d sell out, you know, I’d play the game of really open up 25 spots and we’d sell it out every single time. And the feedback on it, um, like anything online, there are people who would, uh, wait till basically the 30 day mark where you promised the guarantee and they’d go, Well, I haven’t watched this thing.

I’m gonna get my money back. And my feeling was I had no negative feelings towards these people. Um, you’re not ready for this information, right? So while on one side of things, it was very, very heavy with business strategy. Okay? If you’re gonna be marketing on Facebook, this is the one thing you should be doing.

Now, here’s where people are really wasting their money. If you’re gonna be doing live talks, you know the things that out there, the one thing it’s gonna take for us to really grow this hypnosis profession is for all of us to become much more successful. So the phrase is constantly, the more we’re all successful, the more we’re all successful.

Right? And that was really the, the product itself was very specific. What’s the title of the product? Well, I’m not saying it because I’m now relaunching it under something else. Okay. Because it’s now gonna be hypnotic Business Systems, which a and t coming February, 2016, which in many ways it’s the game of.

And I say this, uh, you say, Don’t be humble, but it’s the story of George Lucas going back to Star Wars and going, I think we could have done it this way. Instead, it’s Spielberg looking at ET and going, I think it could be better this way. I think society has changed. So those don’t need to be shotguns, they should be walking.

So I should look forward to a D V D, uh, a book it’s or something. I’m, uh, on one side of things because I don’t like sales tax. Mm-hmm. , I’m a digital products person for the reason of, I really want it to be, It’s the way that I end any live training with my students, and I tell them, Well, now that it’s the last day of the training, I can tell you all you’ve been d.

I told you this was training, this was education. Mm. The real training happens as you go out there and you put this information into use. So this was all the book learning. Go out there, get the street smarts toward it. So the big shift was that what I was selling before was a one time purchase. And here you go.

So the main intention of relaunching it as a membership library and those of you that have the old product don’t freak out. You’re being grandfathered in. Uh, but the main reason of making the switch is that we need an online community. We cut out the word online. We need a community of heists that are not looking at being successful as a bad thing.

Hmm. That are not looking at the fact that, and it’s the line I always fall back on when I’m in my session and I have prepaid my rent in advance because I’m like that. And there’s enough money in the savings account for the mortgage and the preschools paid off for the kids. You have my full undivided attention.

Nice. When you call. And I’m just picking up, You are not a match for me. And, um, meanwhile the, uh, the washer and dryer busted, we have to replace it. I can operate from a place of, I don’t need to take this one to get paid. Um, I’ve had people who have contacted me for like private coaching for their business, and I’ll be very respectful and say, Here’s why I don’t think we’re a match.

And if you could work on this and then give me your results, then let’s come back to it. So to operate from a place, So the product was one all about hypnotic business, which the new title is gonna be Hypnotic Business Systems. Yet as much as it’s all about how to sell hypnosis, it’s more about how, so, how to navigate a change, how to guide someone from a place of problem to a place of solution.

Gotcha. And really the more that we look at the aspect of our business being very similar to how we navigate the change process, because they’re coming in with their preconceived notions as to either why they can’t make the change. Or why if I buy this thing is not gonna work for me like everything else I’ve ever done.

Gotcha. And to break down that landscape of the issue, to break down that reality that, that, that hypnotic trans they’ve already created for themselves and show them, Oh wait, there’s this thing over here that’s also an option. So as much as it’s a business product, it’s more so all about the mindset towards success as well.

Got, Thank you. I’m gonna give you a present. It’s not a gift, it’s a present. And then I’m gonna ask you one more question and then we’re gonna put food in our stomachs. Exactly. The present is this. Find a way to make these more than the 25, 30 minutes, because once the wheels start going, you’re one of the smartest people I’ve met this year.

So you need to share it with us with more people. Thank you. Second, uh, get yourself pen and paper for this, because I was, Everything you say, I’m like, Oh, I have another question, another idea. So, If you’re a real listener and you come on this show, , ask him where is his pen and paper? Cuz he’s gonna give you a lot of information.

You’re not gonna have enough time to, to work with all of it. So make it longer pen and paper. And now the last question. Uh, start with a statement. You have a lovely wife and two kids. You have to update your photos in the office. Yeah. , but two great kids. He’s over there. Yeah. So I’m here, here. There’s a reason, uh, for those people, and I think I did this on one of the podcast sessions.

It, it bears explaining, uh, there’s a strategy at the end of a hypnotic session about connecting everything in the process with the color red. So for the next few days, the color red, red, red, well act as a reinforcement. As a reminder, this is something I did of, uh, post hypnotic success, which is why year round there’s a photo of my daughter with Santa.

Ah, yeah. Which right now it’s December 27th, so it’s fitting. And you’re wearing red. She’s up there. Hey, look at that. Was that planned? No, no, no. Oh, I guess not. Cause you’re not meeting people on a Sunday. No. Oh wow. Everything’s red. Everything’s red except for the walls. Um, alright, so I’m, I’m in this room with you, with my lady friend.

You have a lovely wife and she, my girl Ruby, she gets this question all the time. Uh, you’re, you’re dating a hypnotist. Did he hypnotize you, Did you hypnotize your wife for this wonderful life you did? No, not for this life. She was with me. You cheated . She was with me before the hypnosis appeared. Okay. Um, though I chair the family dynamic that I came from a family where everybody in my family is self-employed.

Hmm. So of all people I loved, There was an interview with Jason Sudeikis from Saturday Night Live, um, who’s now gone on to do, uh, like the horrible bosses movie. Oh yeah, yeah. Others. And there was an interview with him and I loved the moment where they asked him, Well, what did your parents think about you growing up to become an actor, comedian?

And his response was, You, you clearly didn’t do your research because my uncles George went norm from Cheers. So I just grew up in a family. We’re going off and doing something a little different just was completely normal. Oh, that’s interesting. So, uh, my grandfather was a jeweler. My uncles a pawn shop owner.

My parents, everyone in my immediate family, my parents, my brother, they’re all photographers, self-employed. So the idea of going off and doing your own thing was something completely normal. That’s interesting. Um, and even at one point I was in the theater career, uh, on the management side. And again, the going off and doing something a little different was completely ordinary.

Uh, it was an interesting dynamic with the in-laws, I’d say at the beginning, uh, just because they were all very much, I work for this company, I work for that company. And this was very much not the normal though, Michelle, from an early. Date kind of figured out that, and I say this with the arrogance and the cockiness that I wanted to have.

I’m someone that when I decide to do something, I’m going to be successful at it. I’m going to make it work. Mm-hmm. , um, there’s a stage hypnotist now online entrepreneur, Jeffrey Ronning, that I loved the thing that I heard him say about, it’s not worth doing if you’re not gonna do it for at least three years and give it your full ability.

Good. Rather than I’m gonna dip my toes in and see what happens. Right. So that’s how when I admittedly started off as the stage heist full time and decided, you know, I’m gonna open up an office, signed the big scary lease and went, I’m gonna make this work. So early on, there was already something hypnotic in my change strategies toward myself of just, I’m gonna make this happen now.

I’m gonna make that happen. and we did use, uh, the hypnobirthing protocol for the birth of our son. Um, so I went off and took that class with Mickey Mongan, the founder of it, and uh, eventually we decided to also take the class with someone else cuz I didn’t want to be splitting focus of instructor and then also dad and playing the back and forth game.

Mm-hmm. . So we took it with Lindsay, a local, uh, practitioner who’s a good friend now. And that was a fun experience though, of Michelle going, You’re adding stuff to it. You’re not reading what’s in the book. I’m like, sh it’s okay. I got you. . So that was really, I mean that’s probably the extent of the quote hypnotic relationship because in many ways we were already together, we were already, um, dating by the time that I really took on the hypnosis full.

Gotcha. Yeah. All right. Thanks for answering that. Uh, she saw me at a show. We were in Rochester, New York, and, uh, she was sitting and I thought she was cute. And, uh, she was sitting with these guys who were in the army, in their army uniforms. And I like women who don’t wear makeup cuz I want just like, you roll outta bed.

That’s how you look. Yes. I like it. And so she’s very lovely without makeup and I thought because she was sitting with these army guys and not wearing makeup and her hair was up that she was part of the army. And then when I found out that she wasn’t, she was a flight attendant, I was like, Well, that’s amazing.

I don’t fight these guys. And, um, what was the date? December, December 6th. And, um, she was there with me for America’s Got Talent for both rounds. Mm-hmm. . And, uh, I, I don’t understand, like I’m afraid of marriage still. I might even get hypnotized, but, uh, she, I, I, she’s like my shadow who walks in front of me.

Like she’s always there. And then like, I need something. It’s like I have three hands cuz she was always there. It’s like this, that and the other. And uh, one of my favorite things is like, she had this photo of us, uh, on her cell phone and it was just me sleeping, holding her hand and it was just our hands holding each other.

And uh, cuz if I’m holding on her, I now, everything’s gonna be cool. I don’t have to worry about things. So I don’t know. Yeah, you got yourself one of those too. Yeah. So what’s up next for you? Only God knows, uh, sports hypnosis. Uh, yeah, I’m taking a day at a time. I’m still doing the college shows. It’s learning.

I guess that’s what nexts for me learning. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis [email protected]. Hey, it’s Jason Lynette here. One last quick thing. Thank you so much for sticking through with this recording. A lot of great information here inside of it. A lot of great nuggets. I hope this is gonna be one that you’re gonna go back and listen to again.

And as a personal note, the style of this recording, the style of the last one is how this podcast is going to be progressing a little bit more in depth, a little less surface than what we’ve been doing so far. A lot more in depth conversations about techniques, the personality, what drives our success.

So buckle up 2016 is gonna be. Head over to hypnotic business systems.com. It’s the program that Chris and I briefly talked about. Get on the waiting list to grow your hypnosis business to new heights in the new year. Hypnotic business systems.com. Happy New Year. I’ll see you soon.