Session #60: Melissa Tiers on Better Strategies

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 60, Melissa tears on better strategies. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. All right, hello and welcome back here.

It’s Jason Lynette with an action packed session for you and excited to have you here once again, the Work smart hypnosis.com website. If you haven’t been there, head over there right now. We’ve just completed a massive redesign and massive relaunch as well. So this of course is first of all, a big thank you to everybody who was involved with getting that up and running.

Nearly every, or not nearly, no, every single page has been redesigned, Rebuilt the membership programming behind the scenes as well. For those of you with access to some of my training programs, that has been a massive rebuild as well. So appropriately taking a small dash of time away. But we are back and we are strong and especially with some outstanding podcast sessions coming your way rather quickly, I’ll give you an idea of what’s in the can and what’s coming up.

We’ve got Anthony Galley’s coming up next week. We’ve got Rory Cher, Dan CandE, Bar Commar, Nicholas Pison, and several other recordings coming your way as well. Signups for Hypnotic Business Mastery. Oh man, is this thing filling up? Hypnotic Business Mastery is the two day pre-convention offering that I’m doing at hypno.

Thoughts live out in Vegas. We, well, we sold out the early admission discount, but there is still room available and especially as you start to fold in some of these strategies to grow your hypnosis business, it is an investment that you will make back rather quickly as well. So what have you been up to?

I’ll pause here. Okay, that’s great. Uh, I’d share a couple of, uh, insights here as well into the, uh, the daily, uh, strategies over here. I, I’d share that, uh, taking a bit of time away from some of my training hours to refocus some of my client strategies or really just, it’s that phrase of, we spend our time working on our business rather than in our business, or working in our business rather than on our business.

And actually taking a bit of a brief pause away from the program. Uh, was able to provide some really nice time to really zero down and narrow down some strategies and some really cool things are gonna be coming your way. As a benefit of that. Had some excellent clients in the office the last couple of weeks and, uh, just really good to kind of, uh, let things take that bit of a pause and really just focus on doing the work.

And I think you talk to anybody in the training, uh, in the training arenas, and you really start to hear the benefit of just getting that grounding phase back in, uh, in the past week or so, I actually just completed the, uh, what is it, the Marine Corps. Historic half, half marathon, uh, which I finished in exactly, well give or take, uh, a couple of seconds within exactly two hours.

Uh, so that was, that was awesome, especially getting back into that. And, uh, podiatrist be damned. Uh, Tendonitis. Yeah, right. legs are feeling great and excited to, uh, to gear up towards a full marathon coming up in October. So these themes of being on a bit of a marathon schedule, these themes of refocusing our training and our client session hours, this completely brings things full circle to here we are with session number 60, featuring Melissa Tears, and we’re talking better strategies, better results with clients, and we tend to cover a full gamut of information, whether it’s what does it take for someone to train hypnosis?

What does it take to produce change with our clients, as well as the beautiful quote. This shit’s all made up, uh, mindset that, uh, Melissa tear tears became infamous, if not, In Famous for, uh, at the recent Hypno Thoughts Convention, and you’re gonna hear some opportunities coming up to train directly with Melissa, whether it’s here in the States at the NGH Convention or hypno thoughts live, as well as over in the UK and various parts of Europe as well.

So check that out. Links show notes. Oh man, the show notes for this one. Uh, a brand new sound editor as well. Everything is being redesigned here at Work Smart Hypnosis. Head over to work smart hypnosis.com for the show notes to this session, as well as various downloads resources as well. And while you’re at it, head over to the iTunes listing and leave your feedback.

Let us know what you think of the new design, the new format, the new everything. I wanna jump right in. This is session number 60. Better Strategies with Melissa Tears

the Way. Tend to usually kick off is, uh, the, the, the superhero origin story. Just kind of share with us your entry into hypnosis. What was it that was your first introduction to hypnosis? Is that now are we recording? We might be

You’re funny. So my entry into hypnosis, you know, I mean, there’s so many different ways I can think of this, right? I can think of, you know, being, um, five and spinning and then doing this weird hyperventilating trick that I watched some older kids doing to, um, almost be on the very verge of passing out.

Um, just for the kick, just for the head of it, just for that dizzy feeling of almost going, almost blacking out and then coming back from that so I can look at my entire life. Has been chasing one trance after another. I can go back and I can look at that. I can look at all my experiments with drugs and I can, I can actually think of one particular moment in Central Park when I was 17 on mushrooms, where I had this moment where everything made sense, where everything felt connected, and the malleability of mind was so very clear to me that my perceptual shift was so great and so massive that it really made me question everything we think of when we think about consciousness, mind limitations, vision, you know?

So it started, uh, I guess then at 17, this ongoing fascination with consciousness research. Consciousness studies, um, metaphysics in the mind. And you know, I used to, um, even as a rock and roll musician, have this hobby of going to the NOIC science conferences, you know, going to the conferences of the mind where you would have a bunch of physicists discussing quantum physics.

And, you know, I was just totally in, it was my hobby. I used to go to the Monroe Institute to alter my state. You know, at a certain point I recognized when I started to study a little bit more that if a drug interacts it’s because we have the receptor for it. And so then it became, hmm, that must mean that on some level we can induce these altered states, um, without necessarily using an external agent like a drug.

That kind of led me into different areas, um, from way back when. So after a while of playing with Altered States, going to the Monroe Institute and learning how to synchronize my brain and induce different brainwave states and listening to the stories that people were having, these crazy, what I would call, uh, hallucinogenic trances and kind of gathering all of that as if it were data, and then taking a hypnosis training here in New York, just a three day training because it was just for me, another way of playing with my mind of exploring consciousness in a different way.

And I just loved it. I got absolutely hooked and then took another three day and then another three day , and then another three day. And you know, this is honestly before I was even really internet savvy, and I know I came very late to the game, you know, I didn’t even have email when everyone else. And their personal computer.

I was just not, you know, in that loop. Otherwise, I might have done some research and traveled a bit and gone and, and, and learned from, from some of the greats, you know, But, um, I didn’t know back then, but just kind of getting hooked in. Two, hypnosis as a hobby, as something fascinating. Um, once I got tired, messing with my own mind, I, I was always looking for other people to mess with.

So, you know, um, I can remember countless, uh, nights and in the back of CBGBs in the dressing room, hypnotizing anyone that would let me, you know, it was my fun thing. And it wasn’t until I started really seeing very interesting, uh, results that it became something viable to help people to quit smoking, quit drinking, get over stage anxiety, cuz these are the things I would meet in rock and roll.

Then I just started doing it part-time. As a musician in New York City, , you’re always looking to supplement that income. It just became a lot of fun. It became far more fascinating to me, uh, even than, you know, than music. It wasn’t until, I guess I got pregnant that I decided my days of stomping around on stage and combat boots and touring in the back of a van were over, and that’s when I really opened up a full-time practice.

So, I mean, that was a long winded answer, but it’s a hard, It’s hard to find the origin story with me because I can really go back, you know, to so many different moments that link together. And whether it’s my ongoing fear of death that I’ve had, uh, since I was three. You know, there’s family stories of me constantly dabbling in all sorts of religions.

I was every religion until I was, you know, 12. I was a Catholic for a while. I was a Methodist, I was a Protestant, I was, you know, whoever my best friend was. I jumped in and I was really looking for some proof, you know, that we existed out a after death. It was just my obsession as a, as a child, you know?

And so, um, that kind of also led me to these altered states when I had my first experience that. Seem like, uh, I could kind of remove myself from my body. It intrigued me. I could go on and on because the more I think about it, the more, you know, all roads seem to lead to trance. It’s a theme that keeps popping up in conversations here about the moments where we should overtly be doing hypnosis versus the moments where we’re doing things that are hypnotic in nature.

And that’s a theme that keeps popping up of having these experiences that are hypnotic in nature, which, that leads us to the hypnosis. I mean, the, the conversation about if it’s involving some sort of drug, the result is because we have the receptors in order to actually create that. Yeah. And it’s how, I mean, even bringing up that theme of all things, the, the bit of research that points to one of the highest dopamine responses for a person when smoking a cigarette.

Is even happening before the cigarette is even lit. They’re finally outside. They’re in that moment of release. And in that experience of being able to channel that, that state of mind organically on their own, it, it’s this thing of bringing people out of their stuck, altered reality that they were in and bringing them into another one that’s a better state, a better empowered position.

That’s right, man. Always finding a better trance. You know, that’s, that’s so much of what we do is we trade TRAs with people. We, we, you know, they come in and they’re, they’re in their stuck, uh, trans state. And, you know, sometimes we have to de hypnotize people first and foremost in order to hypnotize them.

So it’s a loop. Absolutely. Absolutely. So then in that experience, let’s say here’s a client walking into your office to work with you one on one. Do you have. Let’s say one specific overriding theme you’re bringing to that experience. Do you have one specific takeaway you want them to bring with them?

How, how does that process take shape for you? You know, Jason, that that process is always changing. Yes. And you know, as soon as I feel like I have some, some kind of structure, um, I, I, I like to blow that up. Yes. Because I need to keep it fresh for me and the individual. So, you know, there’s certain themes these days, right?

Where, what I consider what I do to be more practical neuroscience than traditional hypnosis, you know, so when a client comes in, um, basically I’m talking about habituated patterns and whether it’s habituated patterns of thought, of feeling, of behavior, anything done with repetition, felt with repetition, even thought with repetition creates, you know, this, this neuro associative cluster in their brain.

And so, Even when they come to me, and I work with a lot of, um, psychiatrists who send me their patients, I would say most, I would say probably 85 to 90% of my clients come by way of referral. So by the time they get to me, Jason, they have been, you know, diagnosed, They have been over therapized for 20 years.

They, they believe they have an anxiety disorder or, you know, depression. These, these big labels where there is no cure. And so they come to me usually as a last resort. And you know, I tell them right away, I’m not a therapist and so I can’t even speak in that language. And anxiety to me is a habit. And here’s, here’s how your brain breaks.

So one of the themes is that it’s just a habituated pattern, right? And here’s how we break patterns. So I like to teach clients in the very first session, at least five different ways to segue out of their hot state, whether that’s a craving state, whether it’s a compulsive state, whether it’s an anxious state, you know, any unwanted negative emotional state.

I teach them how to segue out of, With the second layer of that being, every time you segue out of that, you’re helping to foster new neural connections. We’re literally interrupting the pattern and making different roadways, right? So that’s kind of the second layer of work. Third layer is, uh, we systematically work together to neutralize individual triggers.

When does this happen? When does it show up? . So a lot of this is about teaching clients, you know, what I refer to as self-directed, uh, neuroplasticity. So that would be their work, what they have to do. And then working with clients in my office to utilize the idea and the benefits of memory consolidation as it relates to some early primes.

The fact that we can now understand how to not just rework memories, right? That every time you remember something, you are bringing it out of its stuck state and into something malleable. And then it gets reconsolidated in the. , right? And you’ve got a window of about six hours for consolidation. So you wanna, you know, teach people how to work with that as well.

But now we know that we can actually rewrite early implicit emotional memory, and that is a game changer for me. I mean, that’s a game changer for everybody honestly, in change work because it means that we’re working together to absolutely change on one of the deepest levels we can. So, you know, to answer your question of are there certain themes, are there certain things that I hope to bring to my clients?

I would say those are big ones, you know, as well as the, this is how you’re using hypnosis already, so stop it. , . And, and here’s a better way, you know, every one of my clients learns a rapid form of self hypnosis. I’m working in New York City, so you know, every single thing I’m teaching someone can be done in a.

Otherwise they’re not gonna use it. The old idea of, you know, here, listen to this recording for 40 minutes. Yeah. In a quiet room. If they had a quiet room and 40 minutes to just relax, they probably wouldn’t freaking need me. So for my clientele, it really has to be rapid. It has to be systematic in that I need them to step up.

They’ve been looking for someone to fix them for years, and they need to understand that they’ve gotta fix themselves. I’d share that using some of the information that I’ve learned from you over the years. The, the framing that I’ve put around it is that of self hypnosis techniques you can do anytime, anywhere, and nobody knows you’re doing.

Yep. And, and from a business perspective, that’s something that people latch onto. But from a practical perspective, again, rather than I don’t feel good, I need a dark room and a CD player for 45 minutes. It’s, it’s the mindset that these, we find ourselves in that problem state a little too quickly sometimes.

Just as quickly as they can move into it, we can move them out of it. They can move themselves out of it as well. Yeah. And that is crucial. That’s the key. You know, there was a bunch of studies, there’s two main things that, you know, over the years seem to be constantly trumping, uh, all technique, all process, everything.

And one is, you know, the rapport, the therapeutic relationship. Right? The relationship you have, the intention to. Already activates what you were talking about when you said somebody walks outside before they even light the cigarette, they get that dopamine hit. It is the expectation, right? So just the therapeutic relationship already starts to instigate the placebo response.

Right? And, and, and, and people start to feel better. But also the other main thing is affect regulation. Are you teaching people to be able to manage their own emotional state? Because if you are not, then you are creating a client for life. And so to me it’s key, It’s crucial. You know, there’s still so many hypno therapists out there.

I mean, it’s one thing, obviously there’s so many therapists out there that don’t, uh, necessarily give tools and techniques, but the fact that there’s so many hypno therapists out there that are not teaching, uh, certain affect regulation tools and even teaching, you know, a more rapid form of self hypnosis, it boggles the mind.

So have you seen, have you seen the movie Silver Lining’s Playbook? I, yes. Yeah. You probably know the CNN referring to already where, and it’s a scene for those that haven’t seen the movie will generalize it, but it’s a moment where there’s a character played by Bradley Cooper. It’s this remarkable scene, and I, and I say this without any negative commentary on the profession they’re pointing to, but the characters in the office of some sort of counselor.

And it’s this moment where he is lashing out in response to something that has triggered this emotional state, though, from our perspective, looking in. And not many people would catch this of the scene. It’s the therapist snapping at him, informing him. You just need to find some better strategies. You just need to find some better strategies.

And I’m watching the scene now, waiting for the moment where he’s gonna give him something . And that never happens. . No, it, it’s like the, again, it back to the Bob Newhart. Oh, it’s easy. Just stop it. You know. , My other favorite one is the, Yeah, single people. This is easy. Just pair. You know, we solve the world’s problems in a couple of words, but it’s this place where again, to arm them with the strategies to effectively put ourselves out of a job is, is better arming that client along the way.

You know, it’s funny cuz I just had, um, I mean, I, I do this quite often and, and I know that on, on some level it’s, it’s really not a short term smart marketing, uh, goal or business model. But quite often, you know, um, when people call me for most issues, I, I, I say most people see me on average. Of three. Now everyone’s an individual.

Some people need more, some people need less. But sometimes people come to me and I teach them these techniques. They come to me for stress management and things like that, and I teach them self hypnosis. I teach them these techniques and then I have to say, Look, uh, you know, they’re ready to kind of become my Tuesday one o’clock client.

And I say, Look, you know, see how this works. I’m here if you need me. We’re not gonna make another appointment. I’m just, I’m you. , Let’s see how this goes. And I had someone this week say, Has anyone ever told you that that’s probably not the smartest business model?

Because, uh, the last hyp NIS I went to, you know, I bought a 12 session package and I’m like, Yeah. And here you are seeing another hypnotist. So what does that tell me, ? I, I had that with somebody. It’s like, well, once you’ve changed the behavior, I’m gonna run outta stuff to say to you. So once you got something else, , So, so basically, you know what, what that means is on some level, you know, I, I give these tools and techniques and, you know, I actually like the email and the text that says I’m gonna cancel our next session.

Yes. Because I’ve been sleeping like a baby ever since our session, or because I haven’t even thought about smoking for a week. Thank you so much. I love those emails and I know what does that mean? So I’m down, what, you know, 200 bucks. But you know what it says that person is, you know, has benefited so much.

From just one or two sessions that, you know, they’re gonna talk about it. And so ultimately it’s good to have out there. And, and the truth is, I get bored quite easily with people, um, , and so I don’t mind the high turnover rate. Mm-hmm. , you know, uh, I, I, I kind of feel like if I’m arming someone like that, they know they can always call me if they need.

And that way the door is open and we take it from there. So I share a similar thought that as much as, as much as people have recognized me as quote the business guy in, in hypnosis, they’re a little shocked to find out how many times I’ll wrap up a session by going, Well great, professionally speaking, hope to never see you again.

Yep. Because it does create that raving fan, but also it does strengthen that change even greater, uh, it really get them on the other side of it. It really does. And my, the strategy that I often make use of is I’m seeing there may be a desire to book additional sessions, will schedule it out a little further down the road and the phrase will be, you know, if you get to that point and you see you don’t need me, fantastic.

Let me know. And I mean, today’s the day that I, I’m going home early cuz my four o’clock emailed me down another 10 pounds. Can I cancel? and yes, yes, I’ve got a rescheduling policy, but it’s the whole moment of that’s the best thing I can do for her at that point. Yeah. To go, You’ve got this fantastic, We, we should have sent you a reminder a day or two early, uh,

This moment of, again, that, that little bit of lost time. Call it secondary gain to get the benefit that our process is working with our client and they’re armed in and they’re out there enjoying that change. And as you mentioned, talking about it too. And you know, sometimes I get a client who I’ll go to teach a technique to and they’ll say, Oh, you know, so and so taught me this technique because she had learned it from one of her son’s friends,

And I realized that here’s a kid I helped. Right. And that kid. when his friend was having anxiety, showed him this anti-anxiety technique. That kid got so much benefit from it that they showed it to their mother and they had to make phone calls to the kid’s mother to find out where he learned it. I, and to me that was like that, that was just one of the best moments when I realized that this person found me because they had learned a technique from their nine year old kid who had learned it from a nine year old client of mine , which to go behind the scenes before I hit record.

Uh, listen, I were talking about Facebook ads and everything we’re talking about now will always trump whatever that is that we can pull off online, so that’s awesome. I love. Yep. Yeah. The, the conversations that we typically have here usually go about as we’ve been in terms of, you know, origin story, what you’re currently working with, you know, the, the mentality going into the session.

Some business strategy though, uh, I didn’t admit. I’m gonna ask you something that, We’ve never gone into before on this, which is that you are known as somebody who is creating a lot of great information in our profession. And, uh, I’m looking on the website right now, and next to every book it has a little blurb about the fact that it won this award or that award.

Uh, so on one side, congrats on the other side though. I would give, tell me if this is, this is gonna be a massive generalization, uh, so tell me if I’m at least in the right step. Uh, integrative hypnosis in many ways introduce the mindset, anti-anxiety toolkit, put the techniques out there in a format so the general public could pick it up.

Yet. Then there was this almost, let’s call it, uh, a maturity level that came in from keeping the brain in mind of let’s not just do the techniques, but also teach the client why it’s working. Yeah. And, and also to, to give the practitioner a deeper understanding yes. Of not just why it’s working, but you know, here’s, um, here’s the lay of the land.

And once you kind of understand that, then you, the practitioner can create your own interventions that are informed by what’s happening in the brain. So, you know, one of the things that I’m sure you’ve heard me say over and over again, in, in classes, in conferences, as a matter of fact, uh, in, in Vegas last year, one of the funniest things was, uh, and, and someone had written post, uh, on hypno thoughts that their favorite part of the conference was the misquote, Melissa Tears game.

Oh. And it’s because one of the things that I’m always saying is, uh, when I’m teaching this stuff to groups, that this shit is all made up. , and I say it over and over again because, you know, I, I train therapists and so many times there’s a bit of anxiety around, Oh wait, so, uh, wait, what is, what’s the right wording or what steps for, of the six step reframe, you know, And I start to say, Look, you need to relax around this and understand that every single induction you hold sacred, every single technique that you think you’ve gotta do just right has been made up.

Every NLP pattern has been made up. So let me give you this meta pattern that’s underneath all of it, and then you can make up your own. You know, So it, it really is about creating different foundational states from which you can then create your own and become an artist. This is an art form as well as anything else really.

And so, Um, you know, when I said this at a, I think it was a, a commencement speech, , where I said, Gee, let me just think about what I would’ve loved to have known when I started, when I started in this field. And so I, you know, mentioned my catch phrase, This shit is all made up. And throughout the conference, different trainers would be, you know, up there in front of these big groups and they would misquote that.

And you would think, How can you possibly freaking misquote that? , But boy, can you, you know, like somebody says, um, as Melissa Tier says, It’s all shit . And I’m like, Oh my God, no, that’s not it. And then I was telling this story to mine at least, was a good paraphrase. Mine was all this shit’s made up, which is a little bit less wordy.

So, And then as I was sharing this story, right, because two people came up and they were laughing so hard cuz they were students of mine and they were in someone’s workshop where they had misquoted it and they were still laughing about it as we’re talking about it. And I think I was there with Michael Elner and Michael Watson, and Scott Sam, I don’t know, a big group of us, some other person came up and said, Oh my god, Melissa tears.

I loved your workshop, I quoting you all weekend. I’ve been telling everybody, just like Melissa Tier says, it’s all bullshit, . Oh my, oh my God. There’s the title of the next book. So, Exactly. It’s all bullshit. Um, anyway, so, you know, I, I thought I would share that because it’s on, on some levels, you know, I’m.

Have a bit of a reputation for being a little, uh, heady, you know, uh, bringing in neuroscience and con, constantly attempting to simplify that and create therapeutic metaphors based around that, which I think I’ve gotten it down. You know, I’ve simplified it to the point where, you know, my clients get it, they fully understand it, and all of it’s conveyed in, you know, a minute I told you this is New York City.

Yeah. So, you know, I’ve, I’ve learned to use, um, even the, you know, this is how the brain gets wired and rewired, and this is what’s happening when we do a reimprinting, we’re using memory consolidation. I can use those as therapeutic metaphors, embedding a bunch of direct suggestions, embedded commands, creating conscious unconscious dissociation, tonal shifts.

So, you know, one of the other things that I really, um, am big on is training. Uh, people and practitioners to use every moment, right? You’re a hypnotist. Hypnosis is happening at the first contact. And so to be able to, um, take even, uh, two minutes to explain how to rewire their habit and understand that deeply embedded in all of this is all of the hypnotic principles, right?

Of shifting your tone, of marking out s spatial anchors. And so it becomes its own therapeutic metaphor. You know, being able to, uh, in describing what’s happening, foster it happening is also another level. So that we we’re constantly learning, you know, that we don’t waste time, we don’t get bored with our own spiel because as soon as we do our energy, our dopamine levels drop.

And since we’re communicating millions of bits of information to and from our clients in every session, if you’re bored, they’re gonna know it. Mm-hmm. , everything you say, every facial expression, every gesture, your, the sound in your voice is going to convey that. Now we’re looking at certain resonance circuitry so that even our brains might be conveying it unknowingly.

So how do we keep ourselves curious, excited, interested to foster that very same, uh, brain state in our clients. And, and so, you know, I look at everything as an opportunity, which is why I said, um, on the onset when you ask this question, you know, as soon as I start to feel like something is a staple or a structure, I blow it up because I’ll get bored.

You know, the coolest thing about being in this mind field is that there’s no cap on it. You and I, I think we’ve talked about this, there’s never a point where we’re gonna say, Jason, well, I know everything there is to know about , the mind, or the brain, or hypnosis, or consciousness. I mean, we’re just barely scratching the surface on, you know, embodied cognition, unconscious biases, filters, heuristics, all of these fascinating things that are happening every moment that influence our behavior, influence our decision making, influence our beliefs about ourselves and the world, which is everything that clients come in with.

So, to me, I’m still in this field and will always be in this field because there’s no limits. So there was no, I’ve learned all there is to know. Yeah. So what’s that creative process like for you then? Is it starting from a hypnotic principle and then here’s the research to back it up? Is it, here’s the research and what can I do that is like that, that I can use to convey the same programming in the mind into something practical for the client?

How does, it’s one of those chicken or the egg moments, where, where does that process usually take shape for you? Well, it, it really, I mean, it, it depends. It comes from all, uh, sides. It’s, it’s really a loop and not ever a kind of linear process. So, so sometimes, you know, I’m a bit of a research junkie and sometimes I’m reading a bit of research and I immediately, as I’m reading it, it’s almost like I’ve trained my mind to start the process.

Um, of extrapolating out, right? So what does this imply? What does this mean for my work? Um, you know, research is just research until I can take it and do something with it. You know what I mean? And so there’s a part of me that always thinks, Well, what does that mean for my clients? How can I work that into an intervention?

So I read something that says, you know, geneticists have discovered that we pass down certain, um, traits, uh, in the DNA from trauma from our ancestors. And that if, um, it’s, you know, basically it’s evolution, saying, Holy shit, man, you’re gonna be born into a really stressful place. We better arm you. You know, we better get you ready for.

Um, if it’s not actualized, in other words, if the, the, the child grows up in an environment where it’s not needed, then the next offspring won’t have that genetic variation. So, of course I read that and immediately I’m thinking, Hmm, how can I use that? Let’s create an intervention. Let’s, you know, So, so this is how my mind works.

I, I almost don’t, you know, I’ve trained myself. I think just through doing it, that it’s almost an unconscious process that as I read, uh, a research study, my mind starts to think out how, you know, and, and to think about the implications of that and what it means for my clients. The other, uh, angle would be something as simple as reading, uh, Harry Potter.

You know, I can remember the moment when I’m reading about, Have you read Harry Potter? Yes. Okay. . That’s right. You’ve got kids too. Yeah. Well, I confessed that I was reading Harry Potter before my daughter could , uh, . And my husband and I have read the entire series and she stopped at the third one. But anyway, um, when I read about, uh, the Bogart, right, and this, this thing that takes the shape of your worst fear and the only way to dispel it is laughter is soon as I read it, as I’m continuing to read the book, there’s a part of my mind that is already thinking, Ooh, I’m gonna use this one.

You know, like, this is a brilliant NLP pattern, you know, so that. Not long after that. Somebody comes in, wasn’t even a kid, somebody comes in with a big book. Now if you’re dragging around New York City taking three subway trains and you’re carrying around this huge book that is a weapon . So I see already, they’re obviously very into Harry Potter.

And I immediately, you know, dropped her into trance and had her imagine that Armoire and had her wand it the ready. And she even had her hand up as if she was holding her wand. Nice. Nice. And had her, you know, as soon as that opened with her biggest fear, she was to say ridiculous. And her mind turned it into something hysterical and she started laughing.

And once you can start to laugh at that, you’ve already halfway made the shift, right? So, Then I started, you know, creating a bunch of other little Harry Potter, um, intervention. So sometimes it’s something like that. Sometimes it’s from a research study. But even from those, but even, even more often, Jason, it’s from my clients.

My clients will have an experience in trans and you know, they’ll say, Well, it was all this, and then you know what, The picture went like this and it went like this, and it went like this and it just disappeared. And I’m like, Well, hmm, that’s interesting. So part of that means that I’ll go home on my subway, ride home, revisiting the session to see what I could have suggested that made that change happen in that way, what metaphor did I use?

What was it? Or is it something just from organically from this client’s life? And then the next time I have a client, I’m gonna run them through that pattern to see if it works. the pattern that I modeled from my client. So sometimes it’s like that. So there’s all different ways that insight happens to me and you know, I’m just always wanting to keep that dopamine flowing for myself primarily because I know if I’m excited, it’s very easy and, and contagious on some level for my students, for my, um, clients.

So this question’s only for me. Then you go through that moment of taking something from a Harry Potter example. And while we can do that, I, I hesitate to use the phrase to literally run with the process because while they’re not literally there, but we are using literature. But to have that moment where maybe it is a literally Exactly.

Yeah. I, I can think of a specific time where I had this 17 year old kid in my office and he’s got the black t-shirt with the lettering of the TV show lost. And that told me right away I could take him into that little control room on that island, on that TV show, and we could use that as a control room metaphor.

And something came out of that experience that then here I was later using the same process. And the thing I wanna stress here is that, Was able to still trust the process but now drop away the extended metaphor because it left behind a technique that worked. Yes. Um, I forget if I told you this, and I think it might have actually happened since August last year.

It’s a moment I’m in session with the client and something I have said, Dude just burst out laughing and I’m round one utilize and move on and just let that laughter fade that takes you even deeper and no, he’s gone. And it gets to the point I just have to ask. Okay. I’m sorry. But what’s funny and his backstory is so specific, and it’s such a unique example where this man, 62 years old had been in the same homosexual relationship since he was 18 years old and it dawns on him suddenly in my office while he’s quitting smoking, he has never bought a box of tampon.

And where that came from, I don’t know. And it’s just the most novel. And this was a guy who, as he walked in, his biggest fear was, How will I go to the store and not buy cigarettes? Where does his beautiful unconscious mind take him? , Here’s a whole bunch of stuff I’ve never bought before . And I would openly admit there were maybe two or three times I tried using that moment with that specific story.

And with one I offended and with the other , with the other, they just didn’t quite get it. And instead it’s just now become this almost stream of consciousness patterning of listing as many things as I can possibly ramble off that they’ve never done before. But again, it’s a place where. The there’s of all people, There’s a comedian by the name of Aziza that Yeah, he crafts his standup and yes, he’s up there telling stories about how he hangs out with rappers, but his writing is so specific that even if you don’t know who, let me get the pronunciation right.

Even if you don’t know who Fitty set is, uh, you still get the joke. Right. , even if you don’t know which one is Kanye West, you still get the joke. Yes. You know, it’s funny, so many times people, um, at, at different conferences, uh, come up and they, they say that I remind them of. And it’s always a comedian as opposed to , uh, you know, another hypnosis trainer.

And because I really think that if you watch good comedians, yes, they’ve got the metaphor usage, the spatial anchoring, the facial anchoring, temporal shifts. I mean, if you really, you know, look, watch, you know Chris Rock, he’s got that down. He knows how to anchor a laugh to the point where who will then hit just the raised eyebrow that he had when he told the punchline 15 minutes ago, and he’ll re-trigger the laugh.

It’s brilliant. So which comedian do they say they, that you remind them of? Uh, it depends. George Carlin I get a lot, sometimes I get Lewis Black when I’m going slightly off on a tirade. And, uh, more recently, Uh, without the, uh, the, the gross sexual references, which I steer very, very clear of on every level, uh, Amy Schumer.

So it’s really about my need to keep people learning in my classes. And I know what keeps people learning is dopamine. And the quickest, cheapest way to get that is laughter. I know that when I give, uh, a dose of neuroscience that I better make them laugh so that the brain has some time for that to encode in the brain without them worrying about it.

So, you know, it’s not that it’s strategic. Although I could break it down for you and say, Yeah, here’s, you know, there’s the learning. Here’s the laugh, there’s the learning. Here’s the laugh. You know, I’ve just done a deep trans process and people are spaced out. I need to shift the energy, you know, So I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do this.

But really, truth be told, I just get up there and have. It’s only in the after of, you know, people analyzing it, that it looks really strategic. And who knows? My unconscious mind has been doing this a long time, so maybe I have just taken it in to the point where I don’t have to plot it out in the same way that comedians do.

You know? But we, I’m sure at the same time, there’s this aspect of, there’s a, there’s a documentary that I’ve mentioned on here before called Comedian, and it’s following Jerry Seinfeld around as he’s working to put together another hour to do on hbo and the struggle of him having to do that again. And it’s how, I’m sure somewhere there are the BSides of Melissa tier somewhere.

There’s the B sides, the, uh, the deleted cuts of anti-anxiety toolkit, which we all have things that we experiment within our sessions and just find, eh, it’s not quite getting the desired result, or how do I sharpen this focus? How do I combine these elements the same way that. You know it within a class that we find that balance between yes, we are instructing, but yes, there’s also an element of entertaining and it’s that keeping them engaged.

Yeah. It’s, so that’s where the learning occurs. So important. I have, I have sat through more of my share of people reading from their notes and, you know, really as if we’re children to be read to, uh, it’s like, look up man, move a little bit , you know, do something, somebody throw a pie already, you know, seriously.

And, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s not the way the brain, uh, easily takes in information. And, you know, that too is, is another important aspect to keep in mind if you’re gonna be teaching, but also if you’re gonna be working with clients, you know, too many people get stuck in a rut. They’re doing the same thing.

They have their thing down, you know, I do the pre talk, then I do this, then I do this, then I do this, and they’re bored. And so their clients are pretty bored. And I’d share on a personal level. I mean, the more that I perhaps in the last four or five years allowed my style of work, whether I’m in session with a client, whether I’m teaching, whether I’m doing a webinar, or even so far as I still do some stage hypnosis, is how I got into it.

The more I let that become all the same flavor. Yeah, that, Well, it’s just you, Jason. You know, at a certain point you start to understand that maybe in the beginning we wear d. You know, hats right? When I first started, because I was coming from, you know, punk rock, because I was a musician for years, um, I really felt like I had to put on this other persona, you know, to be taken seriously.

I would put on the suit and I, you know, would, would pull my hair back and tame it down into some, you know, form of, you know, what I thought would be a professional, uh, look and, you know, was very much caught up in, in the need to, um, make that outer, uh, appearance, you know, look the part also, because very early on, I, I was teaching, uh, at like Beth Israel and when I first started, let’s say 17 years ago, you know, I looked really young.

I have one of these faces that I’ll be. 49 on Monday. And I look fairly young, but when I first started I really looked young, so I would have to try and overcome that. And it was a lot of insecurity about, you know, I’m, I’m teaching 60 year old doctors how to do clinical hypnosis for pain management. So I would wear the suit and I would, you know, try and be very professional.

And at a certain point, you, you, you, you get comfortable enough in what you’re doing and you get confident enough that what you’re doing works, that you start to relax around it. And then I’m just wearing, you know, the suit jacket and the jeans . And then I’m finding that it’s fine to be myself to the point where people know me.

Uh, as someone who has a tendency to use colorful language, If you notice, I have not used. In this podcast. Yeah, I am enough. . Well, what shit, That doesn’t really count. That doesn’t count, But . But you know, I’m hyper aware that I’m going to be teaching in the Middle East and they will stone me for saying, fuck.

So , besides, once I start to get predictable, the amount of times people sent me that, um, meditation called Fuck that. Yes. Told me I was getting a little too predictable and just like anything, I gotta blow that out too. So we’ve gotta keep, keep the, uh, the dopamine flowing, but to get back on track, basically, uh, what happens is you get confident enough and congruent enough where this is just me, right?

It’s me when I’m teaching, it’s me when I’m working with clients. It’s me when I’m hanging out with, you know, with my friends. Um, it’s just all me. I don’t pretend to be anything other than I am, and this way it continues to be fun and it continues to be congruent. I have unfortunately, very early on set up an unconscious strategy where if I am incongruent, meaning if I don’t speak my mind or if I’m bullshitting, right?

If I think one way, but I’m speaking another, I start to get a migraine

So I’m disturbingly honest and not for any righteous reason, but just because I don’t want a freaking head. You know, And so what that does is it, it really keeps me, uh, on, keeps me congruent. And that means that I no longer, you know, put on, uh, a different, a very different persona. Now, sometimes I might, um, change hats a little bit, depending on the client.

If I’m working with a five year old, you know, I’m, I’m sitting on the floor, you know, um, if I’m working with a teenager, then I let my old punk rock style comes through a little bit more. But, you know, we all do that. That’s utilization. That’s, that’s learning to speak the language of the client. Um, but for the most part, I think Jason, you and I are, are pretty comfortable in what we do.

And that means that we are who we are and we don’t have to, uh, change, uh, hats in a big way. So then for that person who’s new in hypnosis, , finding that strategy, finding that path towards their own voice, their own style. Yeah. What, what advice would you give to that person who’s brand new at this? I would say learn, you know, learn that you learn by doing.

And the only way to get really good at this is to do it and do it and do it, is to be more open and flexible that the client will pretty much give you so much of the script, you know, good training. I mean, once again, I can’t, you know, you and I are good at what we do because we’ve done the work of, of studying, of learning.

I never stop learning. I bring in my friend John Odor every year for my students. I go to at least, you know, one to two big training. . I go to conferences and I’m still that person that actually sits in on sessions. You know, I don’t just go to a conference just to teach. I go to a conference to learn. I was in your workshop last year, , That was about to say, I think we both had empty tables next to each other at tip.

No thoughts. Live. And that’s, so, that’s how it should be. Because, because the, the truth is you’ve got to keep learning and, and e even if you just get one nugget. I mean, I’ve gone to trainings in Mexico, you know, spent. 3000, $4,000 to walk away with one small nugget. So, you know, I’m gonna milk that. I’m gonna take that nugget and I’m gonna take it apart, and I’m gonna put it back together in 17 different ways and see what I can do with it.

How can I use it? How can I justify $5,000 I’ve just spent on that week in Mexico, , . But really it’s learn Now, the cool thing, and, and what I tell my students is, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re benefiting from a 17 year, and that’s just formal hypnosis. I mean, I could, I could go on and say, You know what, what I sometimes bring in is stuff I’ve learned from the Monroe Institute.

What I sometimes bring in is stuff I learned when I was 17, when I was practicing this weird visualization trick. You know? So at least they’re getting 17 years worth of a learning curve where , you know, where they’re benefiting from. Someone who’s done that research, who you know, We all have these moments of doubt.

And my first book, Integrative Hypnosis, at a certain point I remember going through, you know, because I was trying to avoid editing because I don’t like doing grunt work. And you know, part of me said, Why should I even be writing this book? You know, they, they should just go read, uh, you know, Ericsson’s books and, and, and go read, you know, Richard Bandler’s books and if they go and read Bandler and Ericsson and maybe some Less Femmy and maybe some Dr.

John Sarno and maybe some, And as I started rattling off all the books that they would have to read in order to get the information that was in this book, then I thought, Okay, yeah, maybe, maybe people would benefit from, from having this book. You know, And uh, I put it out there. But you know, there’s always the.

the, um, the doubt sometimes, and I, I think it’s because I never stop learning. That allows me to relax into this a bit more. And the fact that I can teach my students the structure of change that took me years and years and years before I got that bit of information, you know? And now once you get that, if you get a training that teaches you how to utilize these things in your first training, like I sometimes get jealous of what my students are learning for their first hypnosis training.

I know that sounds funny. In the same way I get jealous of people who’ve never read Kurt vk, and I’m kind of like, Wow, you get to experience this novel for the first time. I’m jealous, you know, . So on some level, I would say to the new hypnotist, Keep learning and keep playing and keep practicing. Learn.

Learn from a variety of sources because even sometimes you’re gonna learn from someone and the learning you’re gonna get is what not to do, how not to teach, what never to do with a client. And that too is a big learning. Yeah, that’s, We don’t realize it, it’s a dark place to kind of go for a moment, but it’s a place where even I, I point out it’s the student’s responsibility to learn as well.

And there, there was a workshop that I hosted a while ago that I had a lot of people giving some good constructive criticism on the event that I’d hosted. And the feedback from one person that was nothing was of quality. I was like, Well, even learning what not to do is something you can do. It’s a moment where the presenter did everything he could to alienate the entire audience.

Mm mm-hmm. very quickly and open up to the group for, for discussion and shot everybody down as to why they were wrong and. . And it’s a moment where, um, that person won’t be back here anytime soon. But it’s a place where, again, to, to go through that experience and feel that visceral sensation in your body as the audience member, but also as the instructor realizing, I will never do this to an audience.

That’s, Oh my God. And that’s, Here’s the thing, and I have to say this, Jason, if it wasn’t for me having that very experience with the very first conference I went to, you know, by the time I went to a conference, okay. I had already been soaking up everything I could, hypnosis wise. I was already so into Erickson’s work and I had already been testing out, you know, I, I, all of this stuff, right by, by the time I got to a conference, I was so excited just to be around people that were into the same crazy shit I was into and.

In class after class, I found myself sitting there going, That’s not right , that’s missing, That’s missing the whole point of Erickson’s work. What are these people saying? And it, I realized very early on that if it wasn’t for having so many different experiences of sitting in an audience thinking that number one, this person was either wrong or, or, or, or boring or butchering the very ideals that the person whose work they were supposedly covering.

And if it wasn’t for that Jason, I never would’ve thought that I could teach. And so that very first conference, I thought, if I’m coming back here, I’m gonna teach at this conference. You know, because clearly I know at least as much, if not more than so many of these. Uh, people who have been doing this for so many years, and maybe it’s because I just was so into, um, learning from so many different sources and immediately playing.

you know, that was how I learned because I wasn’t inundated with one model. It was really about just looking at this from every angle. And so that conference where I had so many workshops that I thought were horrible, gave me more than probably any other conference. As far as, uh, confidence in, in my own knowledge and in my own presentation skills, because just as a person communicating with other people in the world, you know, you, you learn how to engage people and how, how not to alienate them , you know, And some of these people just didn’t have that basic knowledge.

And maybe it comes from, you know, being, you know, a, a front person for rock and roll bands and things for many years that I, I guess I know how to keep people’s attention competing in a big old nightclub. Well, I think that the bigger me, I mean, my style of that was sitting in rehearsal halls, uh, as a stage manager and seeing actors, seeing directors test things out, find out what doesn’t work, and then land on what does, And you, you learn more about the direction, the staging.

I think the bigger picture perspective out of this is just to, Even as our new role as hypnotists, continue to be a person, continue to, you know, here we are. We’ve talked movies, we’ve talked music, we’ve talked comedians, uh, you know, I’ve, uh, in the last year I’ve made some big changes in terms of my health and becoming interested in people in that industry as well.

And the way that people gather that audience and begin that conversation. It’s how it’s forced me even working with someone who has an issue with public speaking, that the simple conscious suggestion now falls in. Surround yourself with good information. Listen to good speeches. Watch TED Talks. Watch presentations.

Yeah, watch documentaries, surround. That entire network of the mind with good information. And it’s how, again, the phrase pops up, Some of the best things you’ll learn about hypnosis do not come from the hypnosis profession. Yeah. I mean this, and, and this is what I was trying to get at with, you know, Harry Potter and, and, and the research and sometimes just playing with kids, you know, and, and watching how they tra out, you know, the, the coolest part, um, I know I keep saying that, right?

the coolest thing is that there’s no cap on it. The coolest, No, really, this is the coolest thing, but , one of the coolest things is that, you know, in this field that we’re in, it encompasses almost everything else so that, you know, it is the, this huge umbrella. And that is why, you know, I called, I call what I do, integrative hypnosis because it’s an umbrella that allows me to put anything under it.

I, I, I don’t like boxes, you know, being boxed in e even when I’m the one creating the box, you know, I don’t like that. So the fact that you can now take in things from the health world to take, take in nutrition, take in the energy, take in neuroscience and biochemistry and genetics, and the fact that epigenetics is indicating that we can, you know, have some role, that consciousness has a role in turning on or turning off gene expression.

I mean, you know, mind is primary and that is where we play. So I think it’s really, um, an amazing thing that this field is so, uh, all encompassing. I mean, what isn’t a trance? You know, learning it, it requires tra states, you know, and problems that people have. Goals that people have and you know, so there’s so many things that we can always be pulling in that keep it so exciting.

Go inductive as opposed to getting myopic and deductive, you know, inductive and including all of these things because it all has play. The food you eat affects your mood, , it affects your brain. You know, the things you do, the exercise you do affects your emotional states. You know, so there’s, we can tie into almost everything.

it’s just a great place to play in. You know, I go to these conferences, um, yes, I’m invited because people, uh, like the information, but I go because I get a chance to hang out with like-minded people and have discussions that I take home with me. And that will, you know, someone will say something, a simple little metaphor that I hadn’t thought of this thing like that before.

And it can change everything I do with clients. So I love that. You know, you and I, we, we meet up at, at a bunch of different conferences because we, we love that and we wanna be there. Yeah. You know, when I first started teaching, my husband said, You’re just doing this to have people you could talk to about this crazy shit

And I’m like, Yep, that’s about right. . It’s a fair study. I have a, a biweekly practice night, you know, and it’s, um, it’s for all my students to have a, a place every other Wednesday to, to come and hone their skills and, and to land. And, and the first hour of that is really q and a. What are you learning? What, where are you stuck?

Who’s got some interesting case studies? You know? And we share. And you know, my students, they think that it’s all for them, but they have no idea how much of it is for me. So, you know, it’s copacetic and, you know, I don’t charge extra for that. But there, the unspoken thing is as soon as I come in and I’m working on creating and developing something, if I look at my group, I say, Close your eyes.

Everybody closes their eyes.

And I’ll put these in the show notes so that you’ve got a number of trainings that are coming up. You’re gonna be pre-conference at, I know ngh as well as hypno pre and post hypno thoughts, live and events coming up in London and Berlin. And I know you mentioned Dubai was in the works. Then I’ll just put all those specific links and references over in the show now.

Fantastic. You know, this DP is, this is actually the first year, um, that I’m doing a, uh, pre or post conference at the GH Yes. Uh, convention. I’ve never been invited to do that before, and so I really, uh, would love to get a nice group in just because it’s my first time doing it there. Um, Vegas is always fun.

I’m bringing my, my addictions protocol. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve created this addictions protocol that, um, I have lofty goals for, it’s going to be, uh, well researched, uh, in different studies as well as being brought into different rehab centers. And my, my overview of it is to train so many different practitioners to be on a list so that they can, um, work with the, um, addicts as well as rehab centers, uh, in their area.

So, you know, it, it, it really is something that I’m very passionate about. Um, you know, uh, so I’m bringing that to hypno thoughts. Pre-conference and then post-conference. Kelly Woods and I are working with kids and teens, so we just have a one day and we’re actually finishing up a book, um, that I’m really excited about.

There’s so much bullshit in this book, and I loved the process of writing it simply because I’ll write a case study and then Kelly will jump in with, you know, something that she did with a child that had the same issue. So as I’m writing, I get to learn. And so that’s my favorite. You know, obviously if you hadn’t gotten that from this podcast, one of my favorite things is to learn.

So . So I’m, I’m really excited about that. And yeah, I’ve got this, um, London conference coming up October 31st and first is the actual conference. There’s so many great players, uh, in this thing, and it’s their first time doing it. And then the next week, the same over organization. Omni is doing a Berlin conference.

And so I’ll be doing a two day, uh, conference in, uh, London after that and maybe a one day in Berlin after that. So, yeah, this is fun, right? Getting to travel and share and, um, I’m excited. You know, I still have my, I have my big center here in New York City and I’ve got some intensivess coming up. I’ve got my four day coaching, the unconscious mind in May, and in June I’ve got my integrative hypnosis, but now it’s sounding like a marketing, uh, pitch.

But anyway, that’s kind of what’s going on. If, uh, if anybody’s interested. Awesome. This has been great, Melissa. Thanks so much. It’s always fun to, uh, to chat with you. Jason. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com. Hey, it’s Jason Lynette, and thank you once again for listening to this program.

Wasn’t that fantastic? Just a lot of great information. This is definitely gonna be one of those sessions that you’re gonna want to go back and listen to once again. Uh, couple of quick things as you’ve enjoyed the program, head over to iTunes and leave your feedback. Leave your review of this program.

That is the number one strategy to help this reach an even greater audience. It’s your reviews that bump up the listing over on iTunes and just help to spread awareness of this program as well as many other great sessions to come. Also, a simple question, are you satisfied that you are getting your clients sufficiently deep?

In the hypnotic experience. If not, I’d encourage you to head over to the homepage of work smart hypnosis.com and scroll down a little ways. And on there you’re gonna see an offer for a really cool program I’m putting out there called Go Deep. It’s all about bringing your clients to sufficiently deep levels of hypnosis, whether you’re doing client sessions, whether you’re doing stage work, to actually have a full toolkit of strategies to help your clients get sufficiently deep for the work to actually happen.

And this is a really cool program with several videos that I’m offering to you for absolutely free. So head over to work smart hypnosis.com. Scroll down and you’re gonna see the offer for go deep. Click that link, Sign up for that program. Start learning today. Thanks for listen.