Session #74: Bob Burns on Hypnotic Moments

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 74, Bob Burns on hypnotic moments. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Hey there, it’s Jason Lynette and welcome back to this program and it was great seeing.

Well, at least I can say that and make some assumptions. It’s August, 2016 as we’re releasing this program and we just had the NG convention out in Mar Borough, Massachusetts, and I’m recording this just before heading out to the Hypno Thoughts Live convention in Las Vegas. Though this program is actually launching one day before which the wonders of batch productivity.

This conversation I had with Bob was a few weeks. And of course we’re releasing it as he’s doing a training. Probably right now as you’re listening to this, Prior to the Hypno Thoughts live convention, though, he’s got a lot of cool stuff online and definitely head over to work smart hypnosis.com. Over on the show notes page for this Bob Burns episode, I’m actually gonna put up there a video of his SWAN process.

If you have never seen this thing before, You, you gotta see it. You’re gonna appreciate this conversation you’re about to interact with, whether you’ve seen it or not, though, it’s just one of those things. It’s somewhere between a hypnotic process, a suggestibility test, hypnotic phenomenon, and just something else.

Though I gotta share, as I’ve used the actual process with my clients, it, it just never fails to get some kind of rather profound reaction of tapping into the unconscious mind. And that’s exactly why I reached out to Bob for this program here today. You know, we get into the theme of how hypnosis is learned, and I think for the first time we actually get into a nice conversation about consulting and seeking out mentors in hypnosis to track down people who have done the types of things that you want to do and replicate that success.

I mean, similar to that. Being produced after a course that I’m teaching is happening, I’m teaching Hypnotic Business Mastery two days prior to the Hypno Thoughts Live convention. We’ve got a big group, a couple of dozen people attending that course. Two dozen in fact. And, um, similar to that though, it’s kind of why I’m a big fan of.

Distance learning on the Mike Mandel session that we had a few weeks back. The whole concept that the world has become a whole lot smaller, and you’re gonna hear in this interaction with Bob, the fact that yes, he’s teaching, yes, he’s traveling and training. Though. More importantly, he is a guy who is out there really doing the work and getting the results with clients in a very flexible format.

A deal with what emerges mindset. And I tell you to head over to hypnotic workers.com. This is the full digital access to my hypnotherapy training library, basically for the last couple of years. I’ve had video cameras on it. Every class that I’ve been training, and we’ve now sifted through seven or eight hours, seven or eight terabytes, excuse me, of data to release several hundred hours of hypnosis training, content inductions, deepeners.

And the really cool part is real session demonstrations. You know, it’s interesting with my hypnosis training, My, my audience has shifted in recent years. It’s less about people who are brand new to hypnosis and instead of, chances are it’s people like you. You’ve already got training in hypnosis and you’re looking at that one last step to really bump up that efficacy, increase your success, though more importantly, increase your confidence that you could really do this stuff, which is, that’s specifically.

The clientele, the specific character type of the people I reach out to, to have on this program. So to learn more about my program, head over to hypnotic workers.com, though you’re about to listen to session number four. This is a fantastic one, direct from across the pond over in Scotland. This is session number 74.

Bob Burns on hypnotic moments.

So you came into hypnosis really by way of some different streams. The, the conversation often pops up that none of us really grew up with the mindset of I wanna be a hypnotist when I grew up. How was it that you first got involved in all of this? Well, I was a, I was a single edge Jason Brian, a pretty good barn called Coney Haus is a strange name for you.

I love it. Half of them were coney from the east end of London and half were Scott. But they were all brilliant musicians, you know? And, uh, we were playing in a gig in Abud, a place called the Queen Sat Hotel. It was sucker 1970. And, um, the drummer, a guy called Ray Charleston, turned onto this woman whose name was Liz.

She was the manager of this particular hotel. These were the days, Jason, where all the barn had to wear suits and color and tie. You couldn’t tell the difference whether I was a punk or a solicitor. tell as we, as we walk into this place, the guy turned into this woman whose name was Liz, and he says, Don’t look into his eyes, laugh.

He’s in Inot. Down the Kennedy’s eyes, whatever you do. And she turned around and looked at my eyes and I said, And take a nice deep breath and just sleep. And I caught her head just before it hit the ground, you know? And it was much the amazement of the bond, who never knew I was a hypnotist. And of course, on top of that, neither did I , I, I continued with a arc, slow head noise, lick my lips, and smiling and twinkling.

And, uh, I was terrified. I had no idea what. Really, really scary, and I didn’t really know that much about hypnosis at that point either. So I left it for about a year and then I started looking at it. I was doing a, I started doing a degree, I did psychology through university. I became a social scientist and I pulled this stuff into it.

And of course I was also, as you know, Jason, I think as maybe a bit of your background there was, I was a professional magician and. . So the stuff worked perfectly with that, although most of my h notice at the time would’ve been, um, subliminal and even not really real Exactly. Doing tricks at the same time, you know?

Mm-hmm. just still due to this day. You can edit that out to . No, I’d share, uh, previous guest on the program who you might actually know from the mentalism community, Alon. Yes, Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That, uh, I forget if it was him or a friend of his who had the line about in the, in the Magic and mentalism community, this presentational hook of, I’m doing this by way of hypnosis, and yet, yeah, there, there’s a slide of hand thing behind it and, and the phrase was quote, Don’t NLP in my leg and tell me it’s raining.

Pretty good. Yeah, No, but it’s something to be said about that. Back to that moment of there you were doing that, harnessing that expectation that I think so many of us, even inside of a hypnotherapeutic conversation are by way of our pre-talk maybe. Crushing some of the expectations that the client might have of the process.

Yes, So, So let me ask you this then. So someone’s in front of you for a change process. What are some of the strategies, what are some of the things you’re bringing to the process to really harness that, that expectation? Well, you know, my work changed some time ago, Jason, now, three, four years ago with a swan.

Mm-hmm. , but I could tell you about, I could give you an answer on that when I do my workshops, I talk about that, but I, I, I, I dumped all AIDS ago now. I mean, I’ve just finished mentoring someone for two days, as you know, during. Writing to each other over the last two days to set this up. And I’ve been mentoring someone for a couple days and much to their advice when they come in here, I’m talking right now from my, my therapy rooms, in fact.

So they come in, they sit down the door opens, somebody walks in, the person sits down. They’ve already called me and maybe told me they had, they’ve got anxiety walking into their room and getting nervous with people. So when they come in here and see me, they sit down and say, You’re Marjorie? Yes. She says, My name’s Marjorie.

You contacted me. It’s about anxiety. And she says Yes. And I say, Are you right-handed or lefthanded, Marjorie? And whatever she says, I take a left hand, I put it in the shape of this one, and I say, You probably don’t have a conscious problem. You’ve fixed it. By now you’re seen by intelligent on you. Your tells me you’ve got a subconscious problem, which probably means it’s all inside you, but it’s told inside control.

But that’ll be able to write, marginally will agree. Like the 10,000 people before. Then I go and I just very quickly within, you know, one, two minutes of being in, I’m now talking to the subconscious with no hypnosis and the person sitting on my right, the mentoree, the already skilled h therapist who’s already been doing this work for maybe 10, 15 years, they get a bit of a shock of their life because I do no preamble.

Yeah. I, I just go to, into it. I love that. Yeah. I did it a couple years ago to see what I like doing things I think will be, You know, and, and I say, Okay, so let’s see. So I like, I like these questions. The first one is, what’s the worst possible thing that could happen if I did this? I think that’s a great question.

If it’s followed with a good, logical reply, which says, and if that happened, could I handle it? Now, if the answer to the second question is yes, I normally have a go and Steve happens, and, and very often I get a great result. Nothing bad. Harpin. This fact, something wonderful does, and you already know this stuff Jason, but when the hand turns and waves towards him, , everything changes.

Mm-hmm. , you know, everything changes and I don’t need words, I don’t need, I don’t need anything. I don’t need to do anything at all. I’ve already, I’m already talking to the part. We, we move one from. . Yeah, I love that. For the simple reason of, It’s a theme that’s popped up, and Mike Mandel was on this a couple of weeks ago and brought up the theme that we’ve mentioned here before about learning a classical structure to appreciate the places to then break the structure.

That, whether it’s even one of these reality talent competition shows, you know, uh, whether it’s American Idol, America’s Got Talent, or all the iterations that around the world, it’s fascinating to hear that sometimes they give the singer the criticism that quote, it was too perfect. And indeed, even inside of the Magic and Mentalism community, there’s a whole thing of the two perfect theory, but it’s that place of looking at, let’s take the classical structure of the the client coming into the session, and I would give it the description of most people’s expectation is we have to sit and we have to talk about the problem, which I say this in the most positive way.

My paraphrase of that is, let’s now dig this hole even deeper before we even try to fill this thing. Yet they’re in the room with you. And I love the mindset of just, we do things differently here, and they’re immediately into that experience. And for those that don’t know the swan, I will put a link to one of the videos that are on, uh, YouTube that, that demo and talk about it.

But give me just the basic description. If you had to sum up what the SWAN is, how would you describe. Uh, well, the good news is I can now talk more openly now than I did several years ago. Uh, I had to be careful. I use this, I use this wording a lot when I’m in the therapy room and my phrase is real or imagine.

So if I use the term real or margin to the client and the person I’m training, I can get away with anything. . Yeah, . So, uh, so when the first, when the first, when the swan first started, I didn’t know what it was. I didn’t have a clue. In fact, I was, I was quite scared because I am not a natural ad motor response.

Or indeed hypno. T Actually, that’s not true. That was four years ago. I’m no, I’m no very good hypnotee, but I still, I’m still not good with idiomotor responses, although I swan rather well now, people immediately listening to that and saying, This guy’s an idiot. The swan is imr. And I get that. I understand.

And I think my problem, that’s my problem. I understand what everyone’s saying. I understand all the , understand all the arguments. So, but this one for me is, uh, is. Is a, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s a shape of a swan. You talk to the Honda, the behind, so in everyone’s main, Yeah, the client in the chair, and then the hand is lifted up in a position where it’s kind of killed at the wrist.

So it would look as if you’d imagine like the shadow figure as if the hand is shaped like the head of a swan. Yeah. Yeah. But something for some reason happens there because I used to spend age getting an motor response with the waning. It’s something much quick, is it to do with the shape of human body.

But I, with a h, with a rest, with a arm of no idea. But I’m pretty sure, no, I can see Orly. I mean, I’m just, I’m 65 years old. No, I don’t think my career’s going to flop no matter what I see now, it’s kinda warm . But, but with the, with the swan, it’s, uh, I’m not convinced this swan can be an IMO response. Of course it can, but for the greater part, it’s.

It’s something else. It’s somewhere. My description would be that it’s somewhere between idiomotor response, suggest ability test, or even just, I love the phrase of a direct conduit into the unconscious mind. Yes, I’m very comfortable with that and most people, most hypnotists will talk about making contact with the subconscious.

I don’t, I make contact with a part within the subconscious and all, all that’s small. Tiny for me, the little difference makes a big difference. Yeah. Which even to take that into any part of our process, whether it’s the swan, whether it’s even regression or parts therapy, but get well, it is a parts therapy variation of getting into that specific part rather than just the entire being.

I love that. Yeah. But it’s hard at talk, that talk, I mean, we go looking for parts, but something when the part turns on and says, Hi, my name’s Daniel. Daniel forms McKenna and I’m actually her. No, we’ve got something strange going on. Mm-hmm. ? , Yes. Oh, no. Wait, But you didn’t do a pre-talk and you didn’t do, uh, depth testing?

No. So it’s not hypnosis then. Yeah, no. You, Yeah, it’s right. Yeah. No, of course not. That’s really interesting. Yeah. No, I’ve, I’ve got friends, good friends, friends who I really respect that will say to me, my problem is I lead and, and I will lead, but I lead by just because I’m, I’ve been doing the job for so long, I can’t help but leading, but I try never to lead.

I try to pace. I really try to pace, and that’s based on just my experience that I want to back with something, not just I want to fix them, I want to fix them, but I’d like to get something else out of it. As I say to everyone, no one says you can’t have fun in the therapy room. I mean, look what we’re doing right now for God sake.

I didn’t know this was going to be an auditory thing. I’ve hired gorilla suit. I’m wearing a gorilla suit right now talking to you. I’ve put my mouth right close to the mouthpiece so you can hear me clearly. There you. It serious. Seriously though, I want to, I want to get something out of it, and I wanna get something out of it.

For me, I think it’s important that the therapist gets something out of the therapy. It’s like healers, if it’s not good for the healer, then there’s no point in fixing people. You’ll get fed up after world and you’ll stop healing. I was say, many years ago by a much wiser than I, But that’s a kiss. That’s the kiss.

So well, there’s a, there’s a concept that I’d, I’d share and I’d love to get your thoughts on this, and if it’s the Yes, I agree, or hell no, that’s incredibly wrong. Stop saying that there, there’s, let’s go back to the conversation of the suggestibility test and in various trainings there would be the mindset of.

Yes, you can do these things to build expectation. Yes, you can do these things to excite the imagination of the client and warm them up to the process to build rapport. Yet it would often say that you do those things before the formal hypnosis process because it helps you to decide whether or not to use an authoritative or permissive style with the client.

And, and I read that even from an early point in my career, and the thought was, That’s forcing me to profile somebody that’s forcing me to label them the same as someone would say that, Oh, you can’t use that induction on an engineer or an accountant because, oh, you can’t make someone whose life is dependent on numbers to lose the numbers in the day of Alman induction, which is completely false.

You just build the proper context. So I. Motivated, and this maybe came from the, the theatrical background about the power of tonality. That we can be authoritatively permissive and we can be permissively authoritative, that we can give the language, but through the transition of our tonality, guide them to that place, which specifically here as we’re chatting about leading, I, I think that yes, there are places where.

Let’s say in the category of doing hypnotic age regression and quote, if we are following the model of finding a cause to never be leading in the direction of, you know, you’re in the room with this person, quote, What are they doing to you? We don’t want to do that yet. There’s this point in transition about leading like crazy and leading appropriately that we can permissively lead in such a way that nudges them in the direction of that change.

That if it’s that softening of whether it’s the indirect suggestion or just that hint of tonality, that’s gonna take something that if we use numbers on this, here’s a method that works 60% of the time. But if we fold in this one statement now it’s near a hundred percent. You would be a full not to lead in that moment.

Mm. . Yes. I would agree with just about all we, We could stop now and just discuss what you said for 20, 30 hours , because it’s simple, but it’s complicated. Yeah. Yeah. And I wish I had a pen and paper scr down things as you’re saying. I think you comment, then you go and say something, you’ve moved me again.

So all of that is pretty, pretty, pretty strong. The, the thing is for me that nothing is absolute. There are no s. And every time I know something, I know that when my three o’clock comes in, it could all change, it could all fall away. It won’t work withheld for some reason. And back to the authority versus permissive thing, I, I have again, good friends who are authoritative hypnotists who do therapy.

I am not an authoritative hypnotist. I’m a permissive hypnotist, and that’s for a reason. And it’s for a reasonable over many years that I think is better to be a permissive hypnotist than authoritative heist. I’m gling because already I could give myself arguments that, but across the board, I don’t know.

Hall in general, my main argument would be, Sorry, this is so cheap and we don’t have enough time to go into it. But my main, my main argument would be in my, in my experience. Yeah. So instead of what I think in my experience, If an authoritative hypnotist starts off authoritative, the bad guy, the guy that tells you and it doesn’t work, he can’t be.

Now. I know though you’ll find exceptions to the rule with that, but guess what, Jason? There are exceptions to the rule, and I can’t build a practice with exceptions to the rule, but I’ve discovered that if I start off permissive, I can, I can. I can move the world by being permissive, right? I can move the world by getting the subconscious to believe that, oh my God, this guy gets me.

He’s not even talking to them, he’s talking to me inside there. Geez. That’s the one with the last guy with a pin type suit and the poker tie and the gold watch he gets. and, but I can change. Remember what I said, an authoritative guy can’t change except, unless it’s an exception to the rule. But I’m a permissive person.

But if I, if someone’s watching me in the therapy, they might see my 10 o’clock come in and I’m, I’m expecting them to be fixed, but they’re not fixed at session two in the part and say them, whatever I talk to, say that we’d fix it. So suddenly this permissive guy punches the table and they hear me shouting, What part of I promise did you not understand from last week at 10 o?

and I watch the person jump. . Oh, a permissive guy can become a monster. It’s. It’s absolutely easy. It gives you that range. Absolutely. The range is right there and we can induce chins. But if I come across as I Monster and say, Well, you know, I’m actually, your friend doesn’t work. It’s like the car salesman rubbing his hands slowly and asking if he can help you

That’s not crazy at all. No, no. And it’s that. I mean, one of the exceptions is that the transition from permissive to authoritative can be as simple as a shift of language of you may notice this versus, and now you are feeling this sensation in your body, which doesn’t have to be the shouting, the banging on the table though.

I’m gonna do that today. That sounds like fun. It’s fine. A way to fit that into the session. So, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you a story about that in a second. I, Well, it’s gone. Something to say that’s going, I’ll tell you this story first. I was doing a thing in Birmingham a couple months ago, and this woman told me a story, You’re going to Birmingham.

And I says, Yes. And she says, So there’s a guy I know in Birmingham and she told me the case. And the case was about how she went to see him because her world’s not mine. I was. I went to see this guy and he, he, uh, got a long story short. He told it to F off. He used the full F c K word and he slammed it.

And he never took any money. He just told f you, you fight, you always be f off. And I’m telling this guy at this table, and, uh, this guy said to me, This is a Saturday night. He said, Well, that was,

That was you. And he explained to me he was, it was a year ago, and he’d left the industry for a while. He was, He just had enough, He was going through a really bad time himself. He said, I actually needed therapy to be honest, but I’m ready to leave. I’ve got another job. And she came in for my. My Fri my Friday at at five o’clock, and she told me, I’m fine.

You’ll never be able to help me. I’m just fine. I’ll never work. I tried. Everybody knew me the same, just, And he stood up and says, Look, just have gone f gone. You’ll never lose weight. Keep that money. Don’t want your money. Slammed the door. And I gave him the news that she went to her husband who was looking for him to half kill him.

But the second part of the news was she’d lost three and a half. And he was astounded. We’ve checked up since then. Yep. She is the woman and yet he was the therapist. I love these stories that bounces along and they come to us every couple of years or so. He’s now thinking of going and bought and being only a provocative hip therapist.

Just tell Walter it F off and slam the door behind him. He might create miracles, you know. Well, I’ll tell you a story of something that I’ve been doing recently, which. You, I wanna move on to this in a couple of moments, cuz you have a strong background also in business and in sales. A and this is something that the concept could have been viewed as, quote, a takeaway sale.

That the moment where yes, they’re haggling over the car, and then suddenly, well if you don’t want it, you know, we don’t have to sell it to you. Oh no, no, I want it now. They’re paying full price for the car. Mm-hmm. , which I don’t intend this strategy to, to be this. And it’s something that I’ve been doing on the phone, which granted, this is not an every week occurrence for me.

It’s only been a few times though the, the side effect of this is they called me back and they end up booking with me Though everything that I say to this person in this moment, I sincerely mean. And there there’s not a word of subterfuge or influence intended behind it. It’s just me. Jason, where I’m on the phone with somebody and I’m hearing the consult for quitting smoking perhaps, and it’s just becoming painfully obvious.

To put it politely, it’s someone else’s goal. It, it’s not necessarily their goal yet. There’s not really the emotional attachment and I, I, I tend to be somebody to quote Michael Elner the line about the people who screen way, way heavily for that issue. Quote, You’re only taking the easy ones. You know, I will work with someone as they are, so it’s rare for me to go to the place of.

Just absolutely saying no. But if, when that becomes the obvious case, the line becomes, you know what? This is what you’ve said. This is what you’ve presented as I’ve asked you some questions here, and I’ll just say it simply, I don’t think you’re ready to make this change by way of this process. And I’ll give them some bullet points about things that they need to be able to say for themselves and absolutely believe So I’ll give them the foot in the door and what the next step is and the transition becomes.

Hey, you know what, Bob, you know what? Let me take off the Virginia hypnosis hat for a moment and just talk to you, person to person. This is something that I just, I sincerely believe between now and when you are ready to eradicate this, this smoking behavior. I mean this sincerely, I want you to enjoy the hell out.

and I, I sincerely mean that. You know, there’s no point going through life doing things and playing the game of I shouldn’t be doing this. This is horrible. While you’re still doing, If you’re gonna be a smoker, I sincerely mean it. Yeah. Enjoy the hell out of it. Yeah. And then when you’re ready, give me a call back.

Now the side effect is, of course, I sincerely mean that as a person who struggled with my own weight at one point, and it was the whole eating something and beating myself up mentally while eating it. Yet I have completely ruined that behavior for that person because now they’re off, they’re staring at that cigarette going, uh, I need to call that guy back.

So it it, it’s a sincere statement with a hypnotic side effect. But it’s that place of, Yeah, back to that moment of he maybe had a bit of a temper problem and slammed the table and yelled the wrong words, but to discredit it worked. Well, we’ve, we’ve, I mean, after where we, uh, we develop a cutting edge, yeah, we develop a cutting edge, and we do.

In fact, there’s nothing worse than somebody saying, You know what? I’m so skilled now. I just know. I know exactly when to say it’s just not true. It’s never been true for anyone. Or we’d heal the world and we’d be an opera and should give us 50 million pounds to do. But you know, across the board on the whole in general, we can, we, we, we do pick up things and we do, we do shop my cutting edge.

And I heard what you said at the beginning. I mean, in my sales work I was a, I was a note salesman, but I truly, truly believed that I was a knight on a white charger. You know, my, my business was financial services and life students. And once you get a couple of clients whose funerals to go to and you see what happened because you harmed them that Friday night, you never left or quarter to.

And they took out the 150,000 pounds cover and she’s got it in her boss note. You think, Wow, I, I, I did that, and so on and so forth. And then we have to learn skills to, to, to, to, But we can’t just tell them the truth and say, I love you. Everything I’m seeing is honest. Say yes. Doesn’t work like that.

Mm-hmm. . So we have to develop sales skills, we have to learn how to hesitate, how to moate, how to emphasize, and we develop templates, do we, not so much scripts. We use the word scripts, but they’re more like templates that we can leave and come back to and leave and come back to and job and hook and dance.

I mean, it becomes, it really becomes a dance, I guess. It really does. Well, and I know that’s a theme that you often talk about as well, about eliminating scripts from our process. Recognizing it in terms of template. Well, the interesting thing, Jason, if you look what I’m gonna be doing, cuz it’s funny, I’m doing a, a, a talk at hypno thoughts on scripts.

So my, I’m only doing one talk on the actual thing is gonna be on scripts. I can’t wait to be there. Cause if I was in there listening, come along, will you? I can’t wait to hear what I say. . And this is actually, again, I mentioned this before. This is actually launching the Thursday prior to hypno thoughts, uh, beginning what day are you doing that Present?

Well, I’m angry, Jason. I’m angry as hell because you’ve told me this lunches in the Thursday and we’ve, No, just finished my one day workshop. , but I’m once you are and I, I can’t remember. Let’s predict the future a little further. Yeah. , I, I can’t remember if you can get a chance to edit this and make me sound clever and say, Robert, it taxpayer such and such a thing.

That would be, that would be wonderful. Thank you so much. Yeah. It’s, I think it’s maybe in the Saturday department. Yeah. Oh, Friday. 8:00 AM scripts and hypnosis. 8:00 AM So that’s in the morning, which for the, uh, which for the four or 500 people who downloads us on launch day, uh, hey, if you’re in Vegas, come join us.

Hang out . I’ll try and I’ll try and be sober. I won’t be there cuz I’ll be doing a 9:00 AM right after that. So, um, yeah, exactly. The wonders of, uh, timing and launch cycles and all of that. The, the, the basic, the, the thought I’d share is that in terms of scripts, I think that. Yes, we lean heavily on this little catchphrase of be a hypnotist, not a hypnotist.

Though I love your, your phrasing of, uh, templates. My, my mindset is that of the, of all things the comedian doing crowd work and they look like the improvisational genius. The moment they turn to somebody and go, Oh, you’re a lawyer, and they rattle off 10 minutes of lawyer jokes, when you follow them over to the next country, the next city, and they meet another lawyer, and damn, if it’s not the same jokes once again.

And why, why would it not be? Right? So if it works, why would you not do it again? I mean, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a saying in magic, Jason, perhaps we’ve maybe even heard of this one, that the armature knows a thousand tricks and the professional news three. So it’s a strongly exaggerated statement. Of course,

Yeah. But you get the point, the working pro. Can take three items and do a 45 minute gig with that and travel the world. Yeah. Well, I’d share, I, I took that statement, which was, was thate, or I always, I have to get the references. I can’t remember. The way that I remember it is the, uh, the amateur changes.

Zach, the professional changes is audience. Yeah. Which is honestly the moment where I went from hosting a local meetup to doing this exact program that we’re now doing because it was, I love my local meetup. I still continue to do it, but it’s a moment of, Wow, same 30 people that were here last month. Hmm.

Yeah. Let, let’s expand that reach. Let’s expand that outwards. Yeah. But it’s that place of, again, recognizing the, the flexible structure inside of it, which if I know, let’s go back to the smoker. You are in front of me and yes, you are ready to make this change. Mm-hmm. . However, the conscious motivation of why you’re in my office tomorrow at 12 noon is because the wife is now pregnant and, uh, it’s now real, you know, back to the comedian.

Oh, I got six minutes on that. Mm-hmm. . , recognizing that flexible structure would, would you say that having a flexible structure gives you greater creativity inside of the process? Well, that’s all I do really after, and my only challenge with mentoring people for two full days is that they’ll suss me. By the morning of the second day

And, but I want him to, I want to give them something that they, they, they look at it and go, Oh shit. He’s, he’s doing this again. And it’s working. They’re getting emotional, the hand’s lifting into the air. And the, the guy that just came back, he, he’s told them that as good as fix. It’s a, it’s a closing session, this one, so on and so forth.

I’ll tell you what, Jason goes back to 1978. How about. 1978, I worked for an American company called Combined International, and it was owned by a man, William Clemen Stone, who wrote the Success system that never fails. He was, he was a friend of Carnegies and all these guys, and we were told the deal was at the end of his second week, we had to learn this script.

It was a 10 minute script. We had to learn it, and we didn’t learn it. Jason, we didn’t get to go home. We had, we had to stay in this place called Bradford, where you just go curry morning, afternoon at night, Frederick Curries. So we were desperate to go home. And I went in and I, I just couldn’t, I couldn’t think of my name.

It was dreadful. And the guy said, What’s wrong with you? You’ve been great for two weeks. And I said, I’m just nervous. I just, I’m nervous because I know that if I don’t get this right, I don’t, I don’t get to go home and I’m, I miss my face. Forget that. We lied. I said, You lied. Yeah, we lied. We, you’re going home.

We already know you’re good. I said, Why would you lie? He said, Because you, you know, you, you’re young people, you’ll be out there every night meeting members of the opposite sex getting drunk. So we lie to you. So you stay in the hotel and you study every night, but at this point, Jason Knight went ahead, but I’m, I’m really hungry now, so I mess it up even more.

So I have another go and I still don’t get it. And he says, Look, I need to tell your story. And the story he told me was that once upon entertained or three bills, Daddy beer, Mommy beer, a baby bear. And they went for a walk from their home. At the end of the, the edge of the forest and Boulevard gone. This girl came along and she long blonde here.

I’m getting angrier and angrier cause I know he’s telling me the story of Goldlock and I’m, I’m filling my pocket. My, my, my knuckles are white and it’s, when she comes in, she got blonde here, actually, Goldie, she actually, it wasn’t a lock, it, it was, it was Goldy locks. And she went upstairs and tried the beds again.

And she went into the kitchen and there were three balls of conflict. And that’s when I said porridge. And he’s a beg of pardon? And I said, It wasn’t, It wasn’t Bos of conflicts. It was Bos of porridge. And he says, How do you know it? I said, Because I’ve heard the story before. And he said, Excuse my, my language.

He goes, He said, That’s right, you stupid bastard. It was porridge. And you have heard the story before, but those people out there have never heard this story before. They don’t care what you say. All you need is a template. You don’t have to get the study right, but you need to be good on the. and I wanted to hug him.

I felt, Oh my God, I’m going, I’m gonna remember this for the rest of my life. Well, it’s 38 years later now, and I teach Goldilocks at every workshop I do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. No, it, it’s a challenge that popped up in a certification class that I just wrapped up doing it just a few weeks ago where, and he’s likely listening to this and hear it again.

It’s a moment where someone comes in. I, I teach mostly at a weekend format. Being in the Washington, DC area, it’s easy to fill, easier to fill a class in a weakened format, and I just do like a straight through, couple of times a year. And it’s this one person who was struggling a bit during the training, and despite the things that I’ve said, I, I, I, I have to lean on the statement that we can give the right suggestions.

Yet oftentimes someone still has to choose to listen. That I’m telling these stories, I’m getting into the literal nature of, No, I don’t need you to go off and memorize these words from my book. Mm-hmm. . And he comes in frustrated a few weeks later, I was only able to memorize the first, uh, third of this process.

It’s like I no . As long as we understand the template, as long as we understand the flexibility of what are the points we need to hit. But again, even back to, I love that they walk into your office and immediately the hand is up in the swan position. You’re immediately into that experience, which again, I, I’m actually seeing there, there’s a young girl that I worked with years.

that had a fear that the way her parents described it, most parents would dream, their daughter would have this fear, which was that she wouldn’t go near a television. And from your magic background, maybe, you know, uh, the magician creator, he does things for David Copperfield. Kevin James? Yes. Kevin. Kevin.

Uh, and look this up on YouTube. Kevin James does a saw and half illusion without a box. There’s someone running around on stage and suddenly Kevin’s holding a chainsaw and he turns in the wrong direction. And the bottom half of the body and the top half of the body are now running around the stage chasing each other.

Yes. Say, say, say. Wonderful. It’s, it’s incredible. Yet this little six year old girl sees that scares the hell out of her, and now she won’t go near a television. and so she’s in my office and I’ve got a crazy computer tech set up here off in the corner with two monitors, and oddly enough here with two monitors and a laptop in front of me, and she’s seeing that having gone through.

With a psychologist, systematic desensitization, where they’re watching magic videos over and over, over gradually getting more and more terrified of screens. And to put it simply, the process would not begin with her unless I crawled under my desk and unplug the entire computer. good. And the magic statement was something that’s now planted at seed in my process ever since then of just quote, We do things differently.

Yeah. And, and to be in that mindset, which I love. Back to something you said before. Let me throw this out there. See what happens. Yeah. And if it doesn’t work, eh, I’ll fix it. Yeah, yeah. Which the more I interact with people, the more I find the successful hypnotist is the one getting to that place of, let me play and see what happens.

So, This. This is a question that might be specific about the Swan, though I think it has implications far beyond just this one strategy. To go back to yourself when you first encountered hypnosis, what advice, what guidance would you give yourself at that, at that earlier point, if you had to start all over again, basically.

Oh, that’s, that’s easy. Yeah. I asked this a lot, and it would be to find a, , absolutely, but I totally, completely trusted and I’d ask my mentor to let me stay with him long enough to see I’m feeling. I’d want to see what he does when he gets it wrong. And, uh, that’s, so I, I think I’m probably one of the few people that, uh, when I do mentoring, they don’t come to see me and we spend a day with me telling the stories of what I’ve done and there’s nothing wrong with that.

You can pick up some great stuff from that, but they come to work with me for two days and they sit here and they watch me succeed and they see a wonderful I am. And to see, to see me feel , I feel, and to see when I do, when I feel, see, I find I, I get more out of, of failure. And people, people say there’s a saying right there, There’s no failure, there’s only feedback.

We all know that. But I, but I get that. I understand that. So I, I was lucky. I had a mentor and I, I went to see the mentor and I saw my mentor flop horrendously. But, but not stop. Just, just wouldn’t stop. We just went on and on and on and on and I showed what we, This a wonderful world is a fuck. I think it’s mainly used by American salesman more than people in Europe.

The rebuttal, the power of the rebut. So you’ve screwed up. They’ve harmed you with something, but you have these rebuttals. The rebuttals come from everywhere. That’s okay. That’s okay. A lot of people tell me you yet. The funny thing is, it always seems to work when there’s nothing to achieve by not doing something.

Everything achieved by doing something makes sense to at least try would not be true to that site. Put your hand like this, boom, but into this one to somebody says, I don’t like hypnosis. You know, anything. So I’m just, I’m a riddled with rebut. And if I was starting again, that young person at the start, cause I didn’t have that to begin with, I would say go, go look for one note.

I say that to everyone. Can’t find a mentor. Somebody can really show you. Not, not, not, not somebody who will take the, the big fee off you, somebody who’s really interested in you and are willing to stay with you for a couple years. That would, that would just be it for me. And I, I have to share that in more.

70 plus recordings of this program. This is the first time that theme is really popped up of finding that conduit, finding that mechanism to get that, that feedback loop going. So someone’s in front of you? Uh, cuz I do, I do consulting, I do, uh, whether it’s for the. Hypno hypnosis technique side, or a lot of it I do, of course, is for the business side.

Getting into, into the specifics of, you know, going through websites, crafting the phone process, getting people out in the community, but then, you know, that turns into, Hey, I’ve got a gymnast coming in. What do you think for that someone’s in front of you for that mentorship process, what would you say? is often, Let’s go to their motivation first.

What would be a good reason why someone would need to reach out and find someone to help guide their process? Well, uh, I, I have a very brave line I use when I’m doing workshops. I tell everyone that the reason why you’re here, somebody, you will later admit this to me or you won’t, and I expect you won’t by the way, but don’t worry about it.

You’re here because you are either a unhappy with the work that you, that you do, how you’ve been taught up to now. Or B, you don’t have enough confidence in the therapy room or see both of these things, and before the end of the day, the vast majority will come up to me and say, Yeah, that’s exactly why I’m here.

So I know this to be the case and the reason why I first started seeing that is not because I’m wise, is because they’ve been telling me that for years beforehand. So I get some really good names. Some, some really people who’ve been really trained in lots of, They’ve spent thousands. They spent thousands, but they don’t have enough conference in what they do in the therapy room, and they don’t have enough confidence in themselves.

It will always be either one of these two or both always. Yeah, absolutely. I, there’s, there’s the experience of the way that I first heard this metaphor was go to a movie studio and, uh, find the cafeteria and climb up on a table and just shout out, Okay, all the phonies, you have to go home now and you’ll clear the room.

And it’s not just an artistic Yeah, it’s not just in the artistic environment. The line was even go into a c. and, uh, assuming you don’t get cuffed and, uh, thrown, uh, thrown into pokey in that moment. Yeah. You, you might clear out the judge, you might clear out the lawyers that, I mean, there’s a whole, there’s a whole previous podcast session I did on just quote what’s called imposter syndrome.

That, you know, we find ourselves in that pattern of, am I good enough? Am I ready enough? And. Sometimes we do just need that pat on the back that we do know enough to jump in, but it’s, it’s how even inside of a training, I tell the group that, you know, this has been education. The real training is getting out there and doing this stuff.

Yeah. Dealing with what emerges as you’re working with your clients. Yeah, I mean, I had a, I had a, a really great mentor, his name is John Copeland. This was in sales, by the way. And one, one day, it was this, the first day I was with him, he says, What do you really want to be? And I said, You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t think of an answer to be honest with you.

I gave that old favor. I said, You know, I just, I just wanna be happy. And he reached forward and he tickled me under my left arm, . And, and I giggled. He says, So is that us for the day? Can we go home now? And I felt stupid. Quite likely. So we’re an idiot. He was this great mentor asking me what would I like?

I just wanna be happy. So then John got me to, he would take me into coffee, get me to stand on a table and sing Zippity Duda, followed by my Bonnie Lies over the ocean. And people would join in and clap hands with me when I did this red faced and sweating. But later on that day or that evening when I’m trying to close the pension deal in the afternoon or a on a home visit, when these people are telling me, Thinking they could maybe do something to harm my armor.

They had no idea that I spent a day staring in top of tables singing Jeopardy, do die to strangers. I have an impracticable bubble, Mister that nothing, nothing gets through my bubble. So, He would, he would get me to practice on this confidence thing. And John’s now in his late seventies and he was just there.

He was just a great, great mentor. He did the business with me, but he did other stuff, as he would call it. He said the stuff is important and the stuff really is important. I love it. I love it. So then how do you spend, uh, let’s kind of get into the, uh, the nuts and bolts here. How do you spend most of your time these days?

Is it mostly in training? Is it mostly seeing clients? No, I’m a therapist. I do, I work all, all the way through the week. Monday to Friday, I have one day, which is a free day for people with pain who can’t afford. That’s a chronic day. I get lots of doctor referrals for them anyway, and I’ve got the deal is if they’re gonna afford it, they pay me if they can’t.

Uh, chronic pain is 50% anyway. Well without Rich Report, and if they tell me they can’t afford it, I do the, I do the work. We don’t do any stuff. So I’m a full-time therapist, but I do workshops. I think, uh, I mean this, for example, next month I’ll be in Miami, then Vegas, then Australia, Dubai, Belgium. In London, and that’ll be me for the year.

And that’s too much for me. It’s far too much for me. So normally every second month, maybe I only want to do six or seven or eight tops a a year. Mm-hmm. , But I’m mainly a therapist. Yeah. Yeah. Which again, it’s that mindset of someone being a worker, someone who’s actually doing the work and that feedback.

Would you say that, how many years would you say you’ve been on the training side of it? On the training side? On the training side of hypnosis? Yes. In he hypnosis in itself on the training side of it. I’ve one been doing this for, on the training side of it, for no more than six or seven years. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And, and from that, how would you say the trainings have morphed? Cause I mean, your style has clearly changed over the years as you’ve referenced that. I’m curious on the training. If there’s a different approach in terms of what you’ve seen, it really takes to get someone from, as I like to say, at the point of curiosity, to the point of action.

You know what? It’s funny you ask that. Great. It’s a great question, and I was thinking of a lady called Camilla Edberg, a good friend of mine from Sweden. She’s a great therapist and I did some work there about five years ago maybe, and. and I, I was thinking about just yesterday, and I was thinking of a conversation we may have when we meet soon, and in that conversation I was going to be saying to her, Do you know what?

You have no idea how I work today. That workshop I did in Sweden is completely, I feel like going back and give them, giving them all the workshop again, or. Absolutely for free. So, and it’s, and I could, I could open my mouth and say something, and you know what, what I say in itself wouldn’t be as important as simply this stuff just happens.

We pick up a line, we pick up an aha, we pick up a moment, We pick up a Eureka. Yeah. We spill them down. They become parts of our new, in our scripts, if you like. We don’t have to see them, but they’re another RO for the quiver. and if we’ve got enough sense to write them down, we can share them with people.

But I tell you, I tell you honestly, Jason, I mean this blows people apart. It’s not my words. I got it from my guy. I’m, Do you know what? I think it was zit Zeigler back in the sixties. I heard this in 1978, and I’ve been using it ever since. And it’s absolutely true. When I I, when I go before people, and even when they come here for.

But when I open up a workshop, I tell them, I’m gonna give you every, my job is to take everything I own and squeeze it as hard as I can over the next two days and treat you as if you’re my very best friend. I’m gonna give you everything. I’m going to teach you everything. And back to Zig Zig that all that time ago when one of his friend system Zig, What the hell you doing?

You’re giving these people everything. These are your, these are your competitors. And the story is that Zig Ziglar just kind of shrunk and says, Yeah, but they’ll never use. Mm. Beautiful lane. That’s my findings. I, I swear to Jesus, I tell people that now they’re look at me as if I’m an idiot. But you know what happens?

I see people two, three years after they’ve been to my workshop, have been mentored by me. And I say, Hey, are you using whatever it is? Are you using the, uh, the claps, the escap through the, Are you using it? And I’ll mention it to him and they’ll, This is how they launch a, Yeah, I am Bob. I am, but you know what?

I’ve made it. I’ve done something to it. It’s just what I’ve done something else. And I say, Well, how many people are you seeing a week? Note, still seeing with two, three people a. In other words, they haven’t done anything to it. They’re not using the stuff, they’re not following the activity plans. But you already know this because that’s what you do.

Your main motive. Well, how dare I tell you what your main thing is? But you do a lot of showing people how to get activity knowledge. Yeah. And know how That’s really the secrets. That’s a two secrets for me. Activity, knowledge, and know how. How to see the people. See the people. See the people. That’s what they’re not doing.

Yeah. I wanna really stress how amazing of a takeaway that was that. I, I the mindset that people would run into that. Yeah. I, I’m on the business side of like, through hypnotic business systems and the trainings that I do on that. There’s always this fear of, as I’m coaching people and saying, you know, produce content, produce information that people will interact with to build rapport with you.

I mean, hey, Doing content here right now. Mm-hmm. and it will serve both you and I at some point down the line. And also just doing it cuz hell, it makes me happy. And, uh, you didn’t have to tickle me for that. So, , the, the, the phrasing, the fear of, I can’t. I can’t publish something on that. I can’t do a video on that.

I’ll, I’ll, I’ll instruct a hypnotist to say, you know, put together like a five or six minute hypnosis recording and put it up on your website as an opt-in, build your mailing list and well, no, if they have that, they won’t come into my office, which, From a training aspect, I’ve, even, when I’ve hosted other hypnotists, they, they’ve come in and I’ve had someone come to me and go, I can’t believe he or she is teaching us all this stuff.

That everyone’s gonna take their content. And my strategy is that I position myself as the hypnosis business Guinea pig. I am only teaching the things I have actually done. And I’ve had people go, I can’t believe you’re showing the stuff you’re actually doing now. And yeah, when it’s when it’s quoted without the tonality, this could come across as being extremely arrogant, which is the, I show you exactly what I’m doing because you can’t do it the way exactly that I do it.

Yes. Because you shouldn’t, because it’s my style, it’s my approach, It’s the, Well, I’ll come after you if you’re sending out the video of, uh, you know, of, uh, me and my three year, three month old daughter doing an instant induction. Yeah, that doesn’t count. But it’s the whole, you can’t do it exactly the way that I do it, so, It, it’s our position as the instructor, whether it’s you, whether it’s Zig Ziegler, as my phrasing is to show you the insane level of detail and thinking behind the why of what we do.

And then that allows you to choose for yourself what elements are important for you to model. Absolutely. So, so what I do, if I was watching you right now, Jess, and, and I thought you were pretty. With my experience, I’d be smiling and scribbling down that I’ve recognized what you’re doing. So that would be the first word I write down.

Oh my God, I’ve just recognized what this guideline is now. That was just, then I write down, Now I need to relate to it because I’m different from him. I’m a different size. I smile a different way. I have a different accent. He punches here and I prefer to punch that. Then I might say, No, I need to a. I need to find a way to make similar what he does, cuz he’s getting a result.

I won’t get a result unless I make similar. And after that I need to actionize. So I need to recognize, relate, assimilate, and actionize. With these things happening, there’s a great chance I can get the good result because a good idea doesn’t care who uses it, but I need to be that good. I think it was John Chair who once said I, I, I liked it.

He said, I can teach you the skills, but I cannot teach you the talent. You have to bring that with you. It’s a beautiful. He probably stole it from somebody. . Listen to this. Is he? Oh my God. Hey, he’s been on here. He’s been on here and he’s older guy. I, I cracked the joke. I, uh, I got him on here so I could finally advertise inside of his Facebook group.

But no well, you don’t watch. This is, I got, I got this gorilla suit from, from John and it’s tight as hell. I’m gripping with sweat A nightmare. This is suit that I’m wheeling right now. Well, the pink is a nice touch. The video feed is accidentally on, so I gotta put a piece of tape. What was it? Mark Zuckerberg.

The, the photo of him in the Facebook offices with a piece of, uh, duct tape over the camera of his lens is like, Oh, that’s right. He’s paranoid just like the rest of us . I love it. I love this has been fantastic. And you’ve got the website, lifeline hypnotherapy.com. Where else can people find you online?

How can they interact? Well, they can get me through Facebook. Uh, remember I have a, I have a forum called the swan, the, uh, the Hypnosis Swan Forum. If anyone contacts me, we invite anyone to come command there. We, it’s mainly for talking about the SWAN itself, and as you said, what I mainly do is I iel some My SWAN DVDs online.

I mainly work as a therapist, but I do workshops. I’ll go anywhere in the. . As long as it, as long as it wipes its face because it’s such a, a great thing to do, a wonderful owner to do. I also do mentoring when Skype sessions and like I said, I mentor here in Montrose. People come across here, they come up to my place.

They spend a couple days with me. And they get to come to work with me and see what happens there. So I’m, I’m fairly, fairly easy contactable either through Lifeline or, uh, online or here’s my, uh, my private email. It’s say Bob Burns, the nueral seven aol.com. If MD ever wants to drop me, uh, an email, but that’s the best one to get directly through to me, Jason.

So that’s just my name, Bob Bos, the new middle seven, Bob Barn, seven El dot. And for the folks who like instant gratification, the subscribers of this podcast, you’re likely hearing this on Thursday and tomorrow morning, launches the, uh, hypno thoughts live convention and 8:00 AM that’s the scripts and hypnosis, though again, let me give a strong, strong plug here and I get, I get no kickback on this yet.

Now, uh, for this swan, D v D, which is this beautifully produced program of this entire, again, hitting all. Points of idiomotor suggestibility, direct conduit to the part of the mind. It’s a fascinating thing that, and it’s something that honestly, as I learned it from, from that product first, it, it’s something that, as I’ve made use of it with clients, it just always gets this unique response that it always builds the.

I, I would say just the right tone for, again, we do things differently and just getting that process in motion and really in a, in a spectacular way, just tapping into that unconscious potential and seeing, Oh wait, I can change things up. And, uh, I’ll give the direct reference here, lifeline hypnotherapy.com on the page, click online shop.

It’s the first thing to get access to that. And it is, it is outstanding. I love it. It’s why we’re chatting. Great, Jason. Thanks for that. Awesome. I’d say I’ll see you soon, but uh, as this launches, I’ll see you in the morning. Yeah, I’ll see you tomorrow morning. I’ll try and football. Awesome. Thanks so much.

Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com. Jason Lenette here, and thank you once again for interacting with this program, and I’d encourage you to do a couple of things. First of all, as you enjoy this program. Share it with somebody else in the hypnosis profession.

In fact, we’ve made it very easy. When you’re over at the Work Smart Hypnosis page, you can head over to any of the podcast pages and there’s a cool little floating graphic that appears that makes it really, really easy to share this on Facebook, on Twitter, or any of the social media platforms. As you find value in this program, so will many other hypnotists as well, and we get several thousand downloads per each and every session though again, it’s your downloads, it’s your support that helps us out.

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