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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 245, Gary Turner on Fighting for Hypnosis. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. I think hypnosis is awesome.
What do you wanna fight about? All right, good. Let’s jump directly into this week’s content. This is a conversation that I’ve been wanting to capture for quite honestly, about a year since first interacting with Gary Turner over at the UK Hypnosis Conference when I attended back in 2018, and just the scheduling didn’t quite work out for me, so I wasn’t able to go in 2019.
But if you saw any of the reports online, it was a phenomenal convention. This time put on by Adam Eason former. Guest to the program, episode number 200, and Gary was someone who I interacted with a bit online, a little bit in person, and just seeing some of the commentary that he does that you’re gonna hear this amazing dialogue about moving from fighting sports to working with people for anxiety issues and such.
Just this passion for looking at the work and realizing, yes, we can all do better at what we do. Uh, now if you’ve been on to some of the forms that are online, Gary has, uh, developed a bit of a reputation for ruffling feathers, I think in the most appropriate way, which is that there’s a lot of dogma, there’s a lot of old information within our community that we are just repeating because that’s what we were.
And well folks, it’s time we start to update some of that information, which to even look at the simplicity of the definition of hypnosis that Gary actually provides, which I’ll read it here. Hypnosis is when your imagination is guided. So that it becomes your reality. So we talk quite a bit in detail about he’s law.
In this dialogue, the whole neurons that fire together wire together, you know, the experience as James Hazel R defines hypnosis of hypnosis as the art of creating real results from imaginary experiences. But just sort of, uh, set aside the expectations that we have to do a hypnotic in. To set aside the idea that there is a conscious or even an unconscious mind, but instead to look at the fact that we are conditioning a response to create a new automatic reaction, which these are all themes that I don’t think any of us would argue.
Just the challenge becomes is that Well, that’s what I was told. That’s what’s in my book, Future guest on the program. I need to have her on here sometime soon, cuz it’s been too long that I’ve not had her on Shelly Stockwell Nicholas. She has a great story that I’m sure she’ll tell when she’s on here of, uh, reprinting one of her books, because as she put it, I don’t believe the stuff that I put in there anymore, the same as some of you have my training course hypnotized with conviction that I think I first put that out in like 2013, 2014, but then I took it off the market because I didn’t do it that way anymore, and eventually relaunched it and put it out there at the way that.
Do it now. So, um, uh, which by the way, for listening to the intro, if you go over to the show notes for this episode, we’ll make that available. Also, I encourage you head over to Gary turner.co.uk. Plus we’re gonna link to other websites and resources to look at. I’ve actually got, as we’ll talk about, Gary has a, uh, therapy protocol that he’s, uh, got available for purchase online.
It’s an outstanding course, and using, uh, information from that, actually in some of my session. To this day. So to look at this mindset of fighting for hypnosis, yes, we talk about working with athletes, working with fighting athletes, but really you’re gonna hear a clear passion in the work that he does, plus the outstanding story of his, uh, two dogs with nonaccredited, uh, agrees by degrees by the way, but we’ll set that aside.
But the story of really creating an environment. For change. Uh, so that’s what you’ve gotta look forward to, insight of this conversation that you’re about to listen to. I, I’d show a throw a little nuance out there too, which I got a great compliment from Gary last year when he attended the presentation that I did at the UK conference.
Where basically I drop the phrase, automate everything, which to look at how everything becomes a bit of a system. Even if it’s as simple as when I’m done recording this episode, the way it’s gonna go off to Dropbox, the way that it’s gonna be taken care of by the editors. The system of how we’re gonna create the graphic image and the whole promotion of it.
You know, we’ve got a bit of an automated system to consistently put this information out there. The same as a client reaches out to me and I handle. Phone call in a rather consistently replicatable, similar way, even down to, I need a. You know, and the way that I go to the app for cuttery.com, because I’m that fancy and only Leno said to cut my hair.
So it’s actually even that’s an issue when it all points straight up, even in the personal life. So, uh, Gary had brought that up last year and also when we wrapped up the recording, he mentioned that he’s been using that as the theme. And this is one of those main principles that I share inside of hypnotic business systems, but rather, Tell you what to do instead.
Inside of there, I’m showing you step by step how I’ve created these systems for my business, where you can get the all access pass of my hypnosis business training library. And simply put by making use of just a few of the dozen or so action plans, you can make back that investment and help you to grow a thriving hypnotic business without having to reinvent the wheel.
So check that out. Get the all access pass now over at Hypnotic Business Systems. Dot com. We’re gonna link in the show notes once again to Gary’s website. And again, I highly recommend getting his therapy protocol. It’s phenomenal, well thought out information, which really streamlines a lot of the work that we do in an easy to access way.
Great guy. You’re gonna love meeting him. Here we go. Let’s jump directly in. This is episode number 245 Gary Turner on fighting for hypnosis. So Gary, just to kind of kick things off, right, for those that don’t yet know you, how would you best introduce yourself? I would introduce myself as a bully’s worst nightmare.
I’m a geek who can fight . I’ve got a background as a, a professional fighter, a successful career. Took me around the world quite nice than that was as well. But I’m also a geek. I constantly study. I’ve gone back to do a doctorate and I look to apply my learnings with my clients. So yeah, I’m a bully’s worst nightmare, but it’s okay.
I’ve got my clients back using those powers for good. Oh, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Most definitely. So what’s the, what’s the doctorate that you’re going after? Okay, well, I’ve, I’ve gone for a doctorate, which is, uh, a multidisciplinary one, which covers all the areas of my work. So the work title is The Behavioral Effects of Head Impacts in Fight Sport Athletes.
So basically I’m covering behavior, cognition, perception change, how all, all augmentation is biological. So every thought we have has a biological basis and affects the body. And this, the feedback affects the mind. So I’ve got my hypnotherapy and hypnosis side nicely covered with the behavioral side. And then I’ve got head in backs, which covers my fight sports and the fight sport athletes.
And it also shows the poor tent of what is to come for my poor brain, which should be mush by now with the amount of hits that I’ve had over the years . Nice. Nice. So then what is it that you spend most of your time? Well, let’s rewind it back. What was that first introduction into hypnosis specifically?
The first introduction to hypnosis was, Well, it’s from my fight career. I used to beat people using applied psychology. My trainers would always say, Gary, I dunno how you’ve just managed to do what you’ve just done. And we worked out is because I break my opponent psychologically. So I was always applying psychology and started then to study much, much more.
I did a two day hypnosis practitioner course and realized that very quickly by question when I was taught, it didn’t teach me anything about actual hypnosis. By the rest of the week, I’d completed the master course and realized that there’s a lot lacking in this and sort of on a journey of discovery.
Uh, yeah, I was fortunately working with a British army a lot of the time. I’m a civilian. A civilian, but cause my fight sports abused the Army School of Physical Training, which is around the corner for me. And they asked me to do various bits of work for them when they came to, Where’s your invoices? I’m like, What?
Invoices? This is me paying back for, abusing your facilities. So they chucked me on a load of their psych courses, which was really of benefit. So I’ve got a lot of training through the army. Which is really helping my clients. And it wasn’t just what was being taught, it was the people who were on the courses as well, like the interrogation encounter, interrogation specialist.
There’s lots of skills that that are picked up along the way separate to the course. So from that humble beginnings, I just kept on studying, realized that no one model of hypnosis was working, sought out some mentors, and they were the ones who didn’t mind being questioned also, who didn’t mind updating their knowledge.
When it was up, when, when, when? When they knew more. So I found an Jacque, I found James Trip. Various people like that. Who, who got me going on? What is hypnosis and how do we actually apply it? An jwe back then was very much into the classical models of hypnosis, whereas James trip, trip was, uh, hypnosis without trance, making me realize that you didn’t need an induction to create what we were.
So obviously tho those, they’ve both kind of morphed together a little bit more as time has gone on and they’re both leading experts in our field. Mm-hmm. , I then ended up following the works of people like Andrew Tios Austin and Nick Kemp, where I learned how to apply it to therapy. So I would suggest that quite possibly my underpinnings in hypnosis itself would come fear the learnings and the mentorship from James Trip and Nancy Jack.
And then my approach to therapy was shaped by the mindset given to me by Andy Austin and Nick Kemp. And it’s just continued to question and develop all, all the way through my career over the last sort of 15 years where I question what I’m asked and go off and study and, and see if they’re right. I look to prove them wrong.
Yeah. I think that’s one of the biggest things that, you know, we find ourselves in an interesting. Sort of renaissance in the profession where information has never been easier for someone to obtain. Which, you know, before we jumped onto this recording, I was telling you some of the numbers that this podcast gets, and the fact that it goes around the world though because of that, this mindset of repeating just simply what we were trained, repeating.
The book that was written 50, 60 years ago just doesn’t quite hold up. So this intention where some would get frustrated or even offended that now, okay, let’s start to change some of these models. What was you, You brought up something great there a little moment ago, which I wanna go back to. Yeah. About psychologically breaking down your opponent,
Yeah. Um, which in some models of hypnosis, they talk about either overload or fatigue, the nervous system and, Well, it’s definitely a bit of overload if we wanted to follow that model. Not that I think I have a specific need for it yet, but how, how was it in that fighting environment that you were doing that psychological.
Breakdown. Oh, so many layers. There were so many layers to it. Perhaps one, or perhaps I’ll give an example to give a, to give an idea, and I was fighting a massive show in the UK and I was fighting a Brazilian called Edson Drago. He just knocked out the UK number one super heavyweight in 10 seconds. That was his next opponent.
I used to fight super heavyweight, but I was naturally sort of super cruise weight, weight. So the money back then used to be in the supers. So I used to fight super heavyweight. Why not? I could. And we looked at the videos of Edson and we realized that he was bigger, he was stronger. His striking was as good as mine, but he was heavier.
His grappling was as good as mine, but he was heavier and stronger. His takedowns ba basically, he had the edge on me in every single area. So we’re like, Okay, we gotta find another angle here. And then we saw it. Before every fight, he would lean forward and sort of tap his forehead onto the other person, basically head button his opponent, uh, but in such a way that he wouldn’t get too much ized to it.
Like, I’m the big man, I’m the big man, and he’d do it when they’d go to touch gloves. So we had it, We started laughing and thought, what can we do Then? My, my fighting nickname used to be smiler because I used to enjoy my sport and it wasn’t a case of me smiling when I got hit to show I wasn’t hurt. Hey, when I got hit, I was hurt.
I just smiled cuz I, I enjoyed fighting. It was, it was great fun. So this is what we did we’re big press meets. It was on the Euro Sport at the time, the sky sports, and we did the way in, and as we’re squaring off for the photograph, He started moving in and to, to sort of start doing the little nuts to my head to show he’s the big man and I’m the little one.
So my hand went back, something was passed to it, and then suddenly I passed it to him. Suddenly the room was wetting themselves laughing. I’d given him a box of chocolates. The pattern interrupt was immense. He had no idea what to do. The room was laughing. I was roaring with laughter. Uh, I’ll show you a pick after this of the aftermath of it.
He’s trying to look all hard and I’m still wetting myself laughing in the background. He just didn’t know what to do. So I’d already started the, the, to show that doesn’t matter what he’s, he is, I’m not gonna be intimidated by him. In fact, it’s gonna, I’m gonna find it funny. So when we went out to fight, so we had a good eight, 9,000 in the audience.
Really big show live on tv, all the pressure of all that. And as we go to touch gloves, I lean away and hold my hands out. So as I could laugh, And he’s like touching my gloves, looking all confused, reinforcing the passion interrupt, but then the fight got underway and yeah, he was better than me in every respect.
So what I did, I just constantly kicked, used my right leg to constantly kick one point on his left thigh repeatedly. I got in trouble a few times. At one time he was on top of me to live ground and pound, but I kept my, uh, smiler psychological, uh, destruction mode on and I blocked one of his punches with me on my back and him on top, raining down the punch, manage to block one, and he got me kind of going aha.
With a smile as I do so. And with then the confused look on his face and basically he doesn’t come out for a third round, completely inly, broken physically, cuz he couldn’t walk on his leg mentally. And actually he didn’t fight. Oh wow. He’s one of several people whose careers I’ve ended following such a psychological breakdown.
In fact, I fought a guy in the UK called Kevin Morton. I fought him over 12 rounds, uh, full contact kickboxing, so kicks above the waist, kickboxing full contact, and I lost the fire. I lost on points. He contacted me on Facebook about three years ago, and this fight was back in 93, 94. He said, Gary, I was broken for about 10 years after our fight, and I.
So it shows the, the, the application of psychology to sports and yeah, you can de structure your opponents. It’s fun. I love that. And, um, just by the way, for the audience out there, probably in a good 10, 15 minutes time, we’ll be getting, uh, heavily into what actually is hypnosis and how do we define it and how do we communicate it.
So remember what Gary can do, uh, before we get into that, I have a patented overhead, right? Induction guaranteed to put people to sleep. Nice, Nice. So I wanna. Translate that do directly to, you know, let’s call it out. Someone is coming into the space to actually work with you, and I imagine, correct me on this, you’re not just using hypnosis as a formal tool, It’s a component of an entire bigger system when someone’s reaching out to you for change.
Correct? Oh, completely. Completely, yes. So it’s a branch off of that though. The question would be, how is it that you’re looking to interrupt that cycle? Of, you know, where sometimes I, I, the whole podcast session that came out like two weeks ago was just sort of unraveling the reality that people present a secondary gain.
That very often it’s just an excuse rather than being flexible. That’s the session from like two weeks ago with Jess Marion talking about that. But you know, someone’s coming in and let’s say that they’ve kind of unconsciously become conditioned that here’s another thing that probably won’t. . Yeah. So how, how are you looking to break down, break down that expectation to now set the stage for whatever you’re about to do to actually become effective?
Yeah. Uh, to break that down is quite good fun. What I do is I give a lot of knowledge. My whole approach to therapy is for a client not to need me. Mm-hmm. not to need me ever again. Yeah. And have the knowledge that no one that they love will ever need me ever again as well. Nice. Kind of makes myself redundant, but it gets results and results.
Bring the clients in. Because I get referred on and on and on. So I’m looking to educate my client that nothing that we do is magical. Change is absolutely really simple, and I leave them with the thoughts that all a hypnotherapist does, In fact, all forms of psychotherapy. Ultimately, all we do is help people to imagine stuff differently.
It is that straightforward. So that’s the overall aim. Client efficiency, efficiency where they, they can just imagine stuff differently, quite nicely, and self-power to do that as well. They don’t need me then, so during the session I need to create the change and let them know what we are doing and educate them on how we are doing it during the process as well.
They’re fully informed every step of the. To break that down at the start, I’ve got, uh, a few tricks up my sleeve, five elements to successful therapy. There’s the therapeutic relationship, how well we can work together. We got the increase of placebo, the power of positive belief, massive efficiency there.
Removal of no sibo, The power of negative beliefs, we’ve got to allow for natural reversion. Hey, some stuff just gets better on its own, but I’ll take credit for that. Thank you very much. And then we’ve got the True Magic Sessions, which is the application of he’s law, new ones that fire together, wire together.
So I’ve got to deliver all of that, and it starts when someone comes in. I work from home because it’s a real place, not a clinical therapy, therapy studio. I’ve got two therapy docs. I’ve got Dr. Max Husky and Harley Husky, PhD. Yep. I’ve got a couple of Siberian Huskies who are therapy dogs, which again, I’ve already gotten onto you on the internet because I don’t believe those are accredited, but we’ll let those go.
Yeah, that’s a, that’s, that’s a nice in joke about the amount of fake doctorates on the website. Yeah. Yeah. They, I think, I think they, these two bought it from the, uh, some, some. Higher University of California for $49, I think. But I can’t, I can’t speak that much Russian unless, so they haven’t quite explained it to me yet.
So when the clients come through, the first thing I say is, Oh, are you afraid of dogs? Are you okay with dogs? Most of them are, if not within 10 minutes. They are. Anyway, tell me, hit my therapist. We’ll get rid of that fear of dogs. But Max and Harley are the icebreaker. Uh, they make people feel welcome. I start to explain, uh, canine behavior so they can understand the dogs and what they’re doing and why they’re responding that way.
And that gets us talking right from the word go, meaning that the therapeutic relationship is already initiated and underway. What I often do if there’s a resistant client that’s, you know, that’s just another thing that’s not gonna work, is given some magic really, really quickly, and I’m probably the world’s worst mentalist.
But even I can create some quick effects just to manipulate their minds and do some predictions within, I know, 30 seconds or a minute, let them know that I can do what I say I can do on the tin, just by manipulating their minds and say, Look, if I can manipulate your mind like this, imagine what we can do throughout the rest of the session.
Yeah, no, which I like. I like that as the, Yeah, I like that. As that through line because there’s some that you know, and I honestly, I scrubbed the internet years ago because I did have a background of being the magician and then getting into mentalism and it just did not fit within my style. And I just kind of flo the interest in it cuz, hey, this hypno stuff is awesome too, if not more so as I have been doing just that, nothing else.
But for me it was that thought. You know, here’s something that’s fake, but then again, it’s the same way that I would present, you know, the suggestibility test nowadays, which I completely debunk. You know, it’s not because of the magic of my words that the fingers touched. Yeah. It’s the fact that, you know, I got you into the right position where that thing can naturally occur, and that’s exactly like what we’re about to do in this hyn.
You got it. In fact, I use a lot of so-called suggestibility tests to actually remove the magic from hypnosis. Nice. Um, I literally show them how we can create it. For example, I might create some idiomotor responses, get some finger signal set up, and then explain that all I did was piggyback on the back of natural facilitations, the natural motor on switches that happen.
I might, especially with a sportsman, I might push their hand in the table. Get ’em to try and lift it as they try and push you down at the same time, locking their mind around that idea. The motor cortex can only hold one physical movement with one body part in mind at once, so it can’t lift and push it at the same time, so it sticks.
So I’ll stick their hands on the table really, really quickly, and then I’ll explain how I’ve done it. Not only that, I’ll then explain how they’re believing that it was me that did it, but in reality it was justice. So I’ll literally remove all the magic, um, all the woo, all the wow. You’re gonna lift a little loader in from hypnosis to explain that I’m working mechanically.
Efficiently. Yeah. Um, and let them know that they are under this bio psychosocial, cultural, economic set of influences, given their senses overload and directing their overall behavior. So they’re better placed to move through reality. With the right imagine version of it. Nice. Which I like that frame of, you know, here’s how you’re already doing it.
Here’s how I, you know, I’m not really the one making it happen. I’d, you know, in, in my own head, this is probably never voice to a client, but you know, to compare two different magicians. Yes. There’s a David Copperfield with music and there’s posing and it’s kind of fitting into the stereotype of what we’d expect of the magician.
But then again, there’s folks like Pen and Teller. Their line for years is that we’re just a couple of guys who have learned how to do some pretty cool things. . Yeah. You know, so from , never, never was it, was it a pendulum says, I’ve got mutual friend with ette Ray Cronus. He’s the reason why pendulum is now skinny.
Um, when, when Ray helped Penn lose all the weight, he’s got a lovely book called, uh, Presto, How 850 pounds Disappear. And then the first thing he says is, Never take diet advice from a ju. It’s brilliant. Brilliant. Love those guys. Yeah. So this kind of brings us to the topic then of actually defining hypnosis and actually how it is that we should update our language of how we talk about it, which I will give you a preview of where I think we’re about to go with this, that I agree with you in terms of.
You know, the terms we need to start to phase out, but at the same time, I’ve redefined them. So we’re basically gonna end up saying the same stuff, I believe. But, you know, we, we would often introduce to the client, you know, by way of the classical pre-talk, that here’s what hypnosis is. Not that you’re not gonna be asleep, there’s not gonna be the loss of control.
But let me frame it this way, that, what are some of those pre-talk statements we should be making to each other? Within this profession of how we actually define what we’re doing. Yeah. Well the first thing is, I don’t even mention hypnosis in my sessions anyway. Yeah. , I’m just given the results of it. But yeah, I mean, originally James Braid was, you know, called it a hypnosis, a sleep like state, and then very rapidly realized he had nothing to do with sleep and wasn’t the state.
So he tried to change it to mono ideaism, which didn’t kind of stick. Uh, hypnosis had taken on a life of its own, and I heard. Fantastic definition of, or a new term for hypnosis from professors, old term deans at the UK Hypnosis Convention last Saturday, and he says, What we actually should be calling it is we create phenomenological control.
So we create phenomena and we control it. It’s phenomenological. I’m still not still rehearsing saying that word . Phenomenological control. Cuz we create phenomena. If we don’t create phenomena, how do we know we’ve got hypnosis? Yeah. So all we need to do is concentrate on creating the phenomena. He presented all the studying research and rapidly my geek was on my software, was firing up for my reference in laws firing away from my university access and calling up all the papers.
He was referencing his in where they were going, and I’ve continued to do so showing quite clearly that we don’t need an induction. Yeah, my induction isn’t necessary. Two years ago at the UK Hypnosis Convention, I ran around, created hypnotic phenomenon in the room, so I didn’t have a single induction. I ran around and I was crushing people’s necks, like Dar Ada, sticking people with things, making people invisible, taking names away, you know, using the force to, to make people collapse.
None of it with an induction. I put that with the video on a US State Hypnosis Facebook page and the amount of people that said, Yeah, but what induction did you use before you did all that? Yeah. And I’m like, I, I didn’t, I just went straight to phenomena and they, they, they, they couldn’t get their, get their mind around that.
All I’ve actually done was just go straight to results. So what we need to do as presented again by Saturday at the uk Moses Convention was brilliant. I was privileged to, uh, fire off on the academic day as like a soft launch for it. But we had people like, uh, Dr. Ben Paris, Dr. Michael Heap, Dr. Devin to whom doctors, uh, professors Han Deans, absolute scholars in the world of hypnosis presenting.
You know what the research currently says? So what it says is we don’t need an in. We need to concentrate on suggestion. And the responsiveness of our subject, cuz after all, all we needing to do is set up a condition response. That condition response needs to be effortless with a sense of non volition experience is being involuntary.
Uh, it, it, it just happened that kind of effect. Yeah, so my working definition of hypnosis, I believe hits every single case where hypnosis is where your imagination is guided so much that it becomes your new reality with a sense of non volition. And that generally covers it. It’s my working definition.
It covers for self hypnosis, it covers for people like me. It goes straight to phenomena. It goes for those who want the, the arduous and boring process of doing it. An induction which do have their places in times you can increase placebo, remove placebo, teach other skills at that point in time. For example, progressive relaxation.
I know, uh uh, Kelly Woods awesome, Kelly Woods, I learned so much from her about working with kids. And Oh yeah. About smiling. She’s lovely. Yeah. I love Kelly’s death. She’s one of our industry’s top people in my mind and in in every respect. But I know that she uses autogenic training as part of the relaxation that she’ll do if she’s using an induction and she uses it, right?
Some people don’t know how to relax. Why not create hypnosis with an induction at the same time as teaching them a. So it’s quite clever. So inductions do have the place, but yeah, much of what we know, I think the, the conflict is the older thinking that, you know, now that I’ve done my induction, now that I’ve done several deepeners, now I can finally address while you’re here.
Yeah. That to embrace that every aspect of the process is the hypnosis and as long as it’s satisfying a specific point toward that outcome. Now I’d shared that, you know, even looking at some of the definitions over the years that. While we may be in a community that’s moving away from the language of conscious and unconscious, to even look at the Dave Elman definition of bypassing the critical faculty of the conscious mind, that was something that, you know, I had just repeated.
Yeah. Because that was what was in my trainings. And as much as you know, Cheryl and Larry are good friends though, here’s the moment where I had volunteered. I went to see a stage hypnosis show that a friend was doing, and it was not promoted well. So there was like a dozen of us in the audience and he does the call for volunteers and I’m like, Okay, I guess I’m going up
And I went up. Yeah. And I’m, I’m not difficult to hypnotize, so I’m up there and something clicked. And this is like, to date the story. I think this is like 2006, 2007 or so, and my experience was, and clearly as a very auditory person, having put out 240 or so audio only podcast insisting we turn the video feed off before we hit record cuz let’s have the conversation the way that people are gonna listen to.
It was then hearing the suggestion and then now I was doing the suggestion and then I was hearing. . Yeah. So back to that automatic reaction, that’s That’s what my perception of that definition, that’s what I read out of that older terminology that we’re retraining that new automatic response. Yeah. That you know, the same as I’m about to brush my teeth in the morning and that’s what I’m reaching for automatically.
Because that’s where I know where it is. We’re about to jump into this conversation. We had to split switch recording platforms for a moment, and the automatic function was there of just going, Okay, let’s just run this system the same as, here’s the guy who is in the office the other day. And we want that new automatic reaction to be living without the cigarettes.
The person, that new automatic reaction is this time to sit down and write the grad school entry letters that she can just do that with ease rather than the old story that was holding her back. Yeah. So it’s where, whether it’s redefining the terms, you know, to look at the word trance, which my perception of that just simply becomes, we’re the internal.
Imagination story is now more dominant than the external reality, and we want to catch them up to what’s actually there. So I think at the core of it, we’re using the same definitions. Mine is perhaps trying to excuse the older words that are still around there. . Yeah. The older words come with some kind of, They’re coming baggage though.
Yeah. Um, and they’re over Complicate matters. It’s a lot more simple. Just say you’ve got a mind. You’ve got reality all around you, but how we move through it, how we experience it is I imagine, first of it, let’s imagine it differently. You know, the job done that way you, you know, you bypassed a critical faculty, which even Dave Elman admitted was just a metaphor.
You’ve ignored the fact that there’s no such thing as a subconscious or unconscious mind. There is just one mind, the resultant of a function in neurology. Augmentation or thought is biological in nature. You know, the consciousness. If we put focus and awareness on our experience, we create a rationalization, a commentary on what we’ve already involuntarily decided to do anyway.
Why? Why not just cut straight to the chase? I think that if in my sessions, for example, cutting out all of the old models of hypnosis, And only doing what’s necessary has freed up my time to actually increase the change. I think it was James trip once that that said that, that the components for a session do the work.
There are five things on the session. One, do the work, two test, three test, four test, and five test and more . Yeah, so we reinforce it mean heads law, new ones that fire together, wire together, we fire it. Allow it to wire far it again, now it wires stronger far it, again, it wires even stronger. Um, and by cutting out the, the stuff that’s not necessary, we get more time to do what we need to do.
So when I see people using subconscious, we’re talking to subconscious, I think, Okay, what subconscious is that? Because that doesn’t actually exist. That’s just a construct, an unusual metaphor. If you’re hearing a word, it’s already being processed by your, you know, By time, it is your consciousness. It’s already been decided upon, already been acted upon, and now you’re doing a conscious commentary on it.
So there is no, there’s no duality of mind. There’s just one mind. Right. Well, I, I’d go back to something silly that popped up this morning in one of the private communities that I run where someone was running into a conflict around how they deliver a pre-talk and getting into a full discussion of stage hypnosis, to which I responded.
I’m like, I just have to respond from the reality that I did of couple of thousand stage hypnosis programs before I. Pulled myself outta that world and transitioned to full-time hypnotherapy. And I never bring that up with my clients. And what I mean by never bringing it up is I’m not explaining how this is different from stage hypnosis, because more importantly, if you’ve never had that experience, why do I need to stop and explain something that’s not gonna be a part of what we’re about to do?
You know, the back to the magic world, the catch phrase sometimes is don’t run when you’re not being chased. If you hold up the pack of cards and you say, See here an ordinary pack of cards where every card is different, this raises that red flag where someone’s going. Why is he showing that? You know?
Yeah. So I love that point of get directly to the point. And you mentioned starting with the phenomenon. Can you kind of map through what that might look like? . Yeah, sure. I mean, so several of clients sitting in front of me. I always start with a session with, so what we’re here for today, because I find that their, their mind’s already primed.
Um, got prime in that we know so well as mentalist. The mind’s already primed with what they’re here for. So I don’t need to do a detail, personal history cause it’s really run in the mind. I studied a structure. They’ve got the understanding of the problem, what it means to them. We put their understanding to the structure, and that’s how I work.
And I use the therapeutic relationship to, uh, guide the way that we work. But with the hypnosis, for example, I, I won’t do a pre-talk in any way, shape, or form. Well, I will with about two words or a single word, and then we go straight to creating phenomena. So my entire pre-talk used to. I used to make this from James Trance cuz I, I quite like that James Trance.
You are, he’s Maite. You either love him or hate him. I used to hate him. We had a big old spat, realized we had a lot of common ground and we’re actually just doing what we do. And now we seemly love each other. So . So he’s, I love Maite. You may not know the American market. Marmite is Americans. You ever come across some Marmite?
Try it. You make us English laugh cause you won’t like it. . But yeah James. So Justin Trance, he just says, Experience this. Yeah. And then gives the suggestion, James Brown on Saturday has shortens my whole pre-talk from two words to, well, sometimes one notice, right? It’s like amazing because you are, you’re directing the attention with, with both of those to what you need to do.
So say to example, Oh, go, no, this, this, or experience this. Push your hands at the table, lock your mind around this idea. The hard you try and lift it, the more it sticks. Try to lift your hand, but it’s what happens nine times outta 10 it sticks. If not, I now know how to work with them and I’ll just stick their hands using a different method.
Just, uh, maybe, maybe eye fixation so their minds can’t wander. Maybe that’s all that’s required. Maybe I need to embed it a little bit more. Maybe I’ll need to refine that work. I just need to make sure that I’m getting my client to imagine what they need to imagine to create the effect. Does that kinda make sense?
That does, and you know, especially the power of notice this or there, there was a conversation I was having with the student the other day about someone who suddenly, the phrase was, they had an odd look on their face, and I don’t know if what I was doing was working for them. You know? And as the, the dialogue just simply turned into, it’s like, well, you can comment on that.
The process becomes interactive at that point to go. And as you’re aware of that changing expression on your face, what are you noticing? Yeah. And whatever they feed you is now part of the process. And I love, I, I wrote this down as you said that, that, you know, based on that interaction quote, I know how to work with them.
Yeah. You get it. Yeah. That, that, it’s that symbiotic relationship of moving towards that common outcome. And based on how they respond to any part of the instruction or any part of the phenomenon that’s informing you how to best work with them, that here’s a local, She had gone through hypnosis training and then came in for a session the other day, which her comment was you never did an induction to, which was try to bring back that anxiety.
What do you notice now? She goes, But you never did an induction. I go, I know. Try to bring back the anxiety. Where is. I can’t find it. . It’s like, do we need one ? Exactly. Exactly. It’s, it’s, yeah. It’s, you know, someone said to me online that, uh, uh, you need to, you know, you need to, you know, clients come, they expect the induction on thinking.
I don’t, the only one that’s done that in the last, well, the only one that I could ever remember doing it was actually a few weeks ago, and he said, No, I thought you’re gonna use hypnosis where induction? And I said, Well, hold on a second. What results have you got? What happens now? Do you think about this?
What this all changed? Exactly. Now you don’t go to a a, a garage, a car garage to get your car fixed until the mechanic has to do their job. Do you? Well, no. No. So I’m the hypnosis. You can see that you’ve had to change. Well, yeah. You can experience it, can’t you? Yeah. In fact, try and get it back. I can’t.
There you go. I did the mechanics work without you telling me how to do it. Does that kinda make sense? Well, it does. It’s the power of when you set the frame, you get to control the frame. I’m at the dentist Tuesday morning this week and you know, they did something out of order than every dentist appointment I’ve ever been to, and I’ve been to this dentist several times.
But just the schedule was kind of off and typically, oh, the hygienist does most of the work. And then the dentist comes in and stares in your mouth and goes, Are you flossing? When they know they don’t have to ask and you know, then that’s the wrap up. And this time they. The dentist walked in first. He goes, Hey, the schedule’s a little crazy today.
You have an easy dental history. Let me go ahead and do the checkup. , you know? Yeah. And he did that first rather than last. And it made perfect sense cuz I’m the one who like won procedure years ago and then that’s it. Not even a cavity. So when, when we can set that framework. So I think I, I’d edit that phrase cuz I think I saw that conversation too, that from the client perspective, they’re expecting some level of, let’s say hypnotic phenomenon.
So it’s not the induction from their point of view, you know? The entire thing is hypnosis. So by kicking off with that phenomenon, by having some magical moment, even though we’re completely there, debunking it and going, it’s not magic, it’s magical. However, you know that’s that result. But from their point of view, you know, it’s the same as you’re doing it 10 to one deepener, and you forgot to say four, it’s gonna be okay.
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, I, I like, uh, I’ve just learned from a, a very, very quiet, very sort of ex, you know, he’s probably very well known in the mentalist world, a guy called Aaron Alexander, and I’m learning one of his effects at the moment because I’m thinking I can use this quite nice in therapy.
I can use it in my workshops and presentations and public speaking and such like, and it’s all about making a connection. And that resonated with me cuz someone else had said something recently as well, that when you work with a client you wonder. And you wonder. You wonder with an A. And you wonder with an with an O and you explore.
Together. And I thought that’s a brilliant thing to, brilliant frame, to hold in mind when you want that therapeutic relationship. When you work with a client, work with your client, with a sense of wonder and wonder look to explore together. And I, I, I really like that. Yeah. So is there a specific, uh, let’s say, category of work that you tend to find yourself seeing most?
I mostly, I tend to get the difficult cases. People seem to come to me when they’ve tried other things that haven’t worked. I get a lot of trauma. I get a lot of post traumatic stress disorder. I get a lot of things like anorexia, bulimia, I get depression. It’s, it’s, you know, I’ve had suicidal depressors come to see me, uh, even dropped off from my local sort of health and safety team, our crisis team.
So I tend to do what many people would, um, complicated clients and I like clients who make me think and through our curve, cause I’ve gotta find a structure. Behind how they’re creating what they’re doing and then help them to imagine it and embed it far differently. So I’ve got a diverse range of clients for normally tricky ones, but because my sporting background, I’ll always have an underlying flow of clients who want sports performance.
Mm-hmm. , that, that tends to be a category that I think may be misunderstood if, if you’re working with that, with that type of sport. What are some of those points that you think people need to be aware? first thing with any sports performance? Client or sports performance or, or, or the, the scary clients.
I’d say sports performance. Sports performance. In sports performance, the first thing we need to do is tidy up the rest of their lives. Mm-hmm. ? Yeah. It’s a bit that everyone in sports psychology tends to forget, and so as an athlete, as a sportsman, the successful one, I know the sports performance is 100% about the.
In other words, it starts with a mind. Sure, we’ve got to do the training, we’ve got to learn the skills and such like, but if your mind’s not in the right place, you won’t even get to train in the first place. Your mind’s not in the right place. It won’t be best placed to develop those skills. So the first thing I do with any sports performance client is to ties up the rest of their lives, and that makes sports performance so easy.
And then from there, um, it’s all about sort of classic state of flow, easily effortlessly, non-consciously doing the right thing at the right time and the right way for the right effect. Or in fighting, we call that mindless finance. So working automatically interactive sports performance, say fighting football, e even down things like tennis is all about pattern recognition and the correct selection of response.
So a lot of my work is on recognizing the moves of the other person and then helping my client find the correct response, says some of the easy ones. Also, obviously we’ve got things like the emotional states, anxiety, and any negative state is the worst state. Ever for sports performance because it’s adding intention to the body and focus and attention going onto the threat.
So the client ends up driving their car with a hand break on making a lot of noise, not going that far, burning a lot of fuel and bits will start falling off. It’s not efficient. So for example, if someone’s got anxiety, a negative performance date are flipping around to excitement, which is a positive performance state.
So, yeah, lots of, lots of work necessary with with sports clients. And the first part of it is never actually about the sport, is about facilitating the ability to have the best ability to train, because success is based on training. Well, I mean that kind of correlates to basically everything else that here’s Yeah, I, I see a ton of entrepreneurs for public speaking issues, which it’s so little about the public speaking.
It’s, you know, the way you are here is the way you are everywhere else, and we’re working on an entire system of that individual that if we spend our time, you know, we can get the foot in the door. You know, this, this is where, like for weight loss, I do find good results by kicking off with habits and behaviors.
Because that we can get in motion pretty quickly, but the real sticking power is by addressing everything else around. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, it’s all about creating the maximum effect in the shorter space of time, but last then getting the client in how to do it. So I, again, like in all my sessions, I train my clients in what we are doing as we are doing it.
So they don’t, they don’t need me. And on, on the weight loss side, I always, I always just open up with something I learned from Ray Cronos or mutual friends with ette, which is everything that goes in your mouth will either add or take away from your health. Nice health span. Being good health and long by the way, which with the nickname Smiler, I have to give you my version of that, which is that my goal is to look at you at the end of this process and smile at you and say, Professionally speaking, hope to never see you again.
Yeah. Yeah. Let that be a good thing. I’d love to see you socially, but you know, with respect, I want you to be able to stand on your own two feet and not need me. Exactly. Professional capacity. I never want to need to see you again ever again. So, yeah, I’m, I’m on the same page with that. That’s cool. Awesome, awesome.
I know you’ve got an appointment coming up here in a few moments, so where can, where can people track you down online? Okay, well, I’m on Facebook, so Gary Turner, I’ve got my Huskies picture. Me and my girlfriend’s profile. Picture of my huskies is my banner and running through the snow as they do so. So you can find me on Facebook.
I do have a therapy website, which is Gary Turner performance.com, where I run a training courses for people. There’s a nice course on anxiety up there, working effectively with peer basis orders. I’ve got the therapy protocol up there as well Now. The therapy protocol is where I’ve broken down every element of therapy so you know exactly what you are doing easily and elegantly to get things right.
It fits inside any modality as well. So that’s worth a look at. I’ve got a weight loss one coming out, uh, of no surprise, just in time for the new year clients. Nice. Which would bring to the general public, so anxiety one and the therapy one designed for therapist. The weight loss one is designed for.
Sorry, I haven’t got an anxiety one up yet. Sorry. It’s the anger one that’s up. So I’ve got anger. I’ve got the therapy protocol both designed for therapists to work with people and then the weight loss come is just for, for general clients. And then my postal website really does need a lot of updating.
It’s currently being looked at to be updated Is Gary Turner dot code uk. Yeah. And we’ll put links to those over in the show [email protected] And a bit of a plug, I’ve actually got the therapy protocol and it’s, I found it to be outstanding and really enjoyed that. . Ah, thank you so much. I go, That means a lot.
Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. So before we wrap it up, any final thoughts for the, for the listeners out there? Yeah, definitely can’t remember where I picked this up from, but it’s a lovely little saying. We can all always be better. It’s just a nice statement that makes us remember that we can always be better so we can start thinking what are we not paying attention to?
What can we do to be better and actually start each and every one of my workshops? I want you to come at this from the basis, from the perspective for, I want you to come at this from a cognitive bias to everything we’re about to tell you is wrong. What I want you to do is question everything and prove me.
With appropriate evidence. That way, if I have made a mistake, I can then correct it for future workshops. If I haven’t, at least then you’ve embedded the information even more deeply. So, in other words, everything I’ve said today to you listeners, try and question everything I’ve said. Prove me wrong with appropriate evidence.
Of course. Cause we can all. Always be better. Jason, Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, leaving your reviews online and sharing this as a conversational resource within our community. Once again, check out the show notes with this episode to get all the details about how to get in contact with Gary Turner to check out his therapy protocol.
And again, check out Hy. Business systems.com. There’s no need to have to reinvent the wheel when automating your own hypnotic business systems. So get mine [email protected] Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.