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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 380, Steven Rollins on Breaking Barriers with hypnosis. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Linett, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Linett. Hey, it’s Jason Linett, and this is where if you’ve been listening to this podcast for quite some time, which is easy to say, is this Work Smart Hypnosis series has been coming out for over eight years now.
Normally, I would come on and give you a big introduction to the session. Normally, I would make a rather brief and polite invitation to join one of my programs, one of the training communities that I run, yet with this week’s episode, I gotta change it up because I don’t wanna waste any time jumping into this conversation because some of you may already know Steven Rollins.
And when I title this episode, Breaking Barriers with Hypnosis, you might have an expectation as to what he might talk about. And yes, he is going to, but buckle up. He is gonna take this in some other directions you haven’t yet considered. And this is a story everyone in this industry needs to. And there’s the goosebumps.
If you could hear it through the recording. So we’re diving directly in, Here we go. Episode number 380. Steven Rollins On breaking Barriers with hypnosis.
I found myself at a hypnosis class. I don’t remember. It was just, it’s just a, a hypno, a regular hypnosis 1 0 1 class that said, What the heck? Let me go check it. I watched it and, uh, uh, the lady had been doing hypnosis for 20 years. First off, she was a black hypnotist that I got my attention. Uh, and then, uh, you know, and she was a female hypnotist that got my attention.
But anyway, I watched the show and I looked at it and I said, That’s gotta be bs. There’s this, none of this is none, this can’t be right. So I, I met, I hung out with her a little bit afterwards, we chatted and, uh, and I challenged myself to, to learn it. It’s either it’s some kind of a carnival trick or it’s real.
And you know, my bachelor’s is, uh, psychology. My master’s is Homeland Security, but my bachelor’s is psychology. So I had an interest in the power of the mind and the mind’s ability to do things and heal and all kinds of stuff. So this, this, it had an interest to me. I was just retiring from the Marine Corps and I said, You know, I’m, I’m gonna go ahead and learn this.
And as I, when I had some time, And got things together and uh, got married. Never this other stuff that, all this other life stuff that happened. I went ahead, got some training, got certified, and uh, it was like, Holy cats, it works. Oh my god, it works. . And I think everybody does that same thing that first time Rodney go, Oh, oh my god, it works.
Yep. And, and then, And then, oh yeah. Yeah. I’m supposed to be helping this person with something. . Mine was the, uh, sort of a stage hypnosis kind of demo around a group of friends, and it was a, at a public place, so some other people like, Oh, can I do that too? And it was then girlfriend, now wife who goes, That was good except for the part where you turned around and had the look on your face of holy fill in the blank.
It’s actually. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that, that’s something we need to all add to our trainings of how to maintain this. The coolest to go, Oh, they weren’t lying really. It really, even though I’ve been training for this for weeks, I’ve been studying it and observing it and training, it actually worked when I did it.
Well, I, it’s when I do like my certification events, there sometimes is the moment cuz we draw a crowd where half of them are brand new and half of the mother half. Half of them have other experience already and they’re, I, I have found there’s the magic moment to go. Could I just do one thing before we dive into the material today?
Um, those of you who have been doing this already and just are here for, you know, sharpening the acts, learning more strategies, can you all like ratify for these newbies that Yeah, this stuff actually works and like the stuff I’ve been teaching is the stuff we actually do in our sessions. Okay, good. Now back to the
Cause there’s that, when you’re off to the side, it’s the wait really? And instead, once we’re in it, I, I’ve gotta ask though, cuz you, you hinted at this earlier of, you know, bachelor’s, psychology, master’s, homeland security, power of the mind. What is it, if you can remember or even define it now, what is it that made, let’s say the hypnosis kind of stand out to you and peak the curiosity in the first place?
I wanted to, uh, help people. I, I, I do a number of different things. I’ve run charities. I’ve, uh, done financial counseling and credit repair and what have you, and this, this, this ability, you know, as I observed it with other hypnotists and found out that this is something that I could learn to do, it was, it’s a way for me to help people with quality of life.
And it that, that really, really appealed to me that this is a way that I can help people. Yeah. So then going into the training, and this is something, you know, I’ll say from the start that I really appreciate about you, which is that. I’ve known you for a bunch of years. You’re, you know, usually in the DC metro area.
I used to live in the DC metro area. I’m sure we’re gonna come around to the fact that you are not there right now, which is gonna be a big topic we’re about to get into. Uh, yet it’s that you really do have a gift for the way that here’s the work that you clearly do, and here’s then the hypnosis side of things, and, uh, you’ve made it.
No, my. That, you know, here’s who Steven is and here’s the two worlds that you are a part of. So for those that are, are, are new to you, in addition to the fact that yes, you see clients and I’m sure would to come around to how most of the people find you by way of word of mouth, Yes. You offer trainings, but can you kind of give us an insight for those that are new to you inside of the work that you’re, uh, presently doing?
As, as, as much as you can share that program . Oh, there’s a, there’s a knowing laugh that sets the states for where we’re about to go. So my master is Homeland Security with a specialization, encountering weapons of mass destruction. So that’s strategic level. Um, how to stop people from doing bad things and what to do if they actually manage to get away with things.
You know what they say? We have to be right every time. They only have to be right once. Um, So I, I did that, I did similar to that. I did Ken Bio warfare in the Marine Corps for 20 something years. I got my, I saw this as a, I saw that as a clear gap that the Marine Corps hadn’t embraced yet. Got my masters in that, came back to the Marine Corps as retiree, and created this created, they created the position for me to be able to, to do that.
So then I wrote doctrine. And did analysis and all that stuff. And I did that for, uh, uh, up until, uh, 2019 actually, uh, supporting headquarters, Marine Corps, working with the joint community, Department of Defense, international audiences, all that sort of thing. That’s, that’s the, that’s the other part of, of my life.
All right. So give us a list of the stuff we actually be, should be afraid of. ? No. Ok. No. Uh, let’s focus on the
I’ve had clients over the years when I was in the Virginia area and, uh, the one time someone said something and he kind of backtracked and yes, I know there’s different, you know, categories of this, which some people have corrected me on this. He goes, Oh, I probably shouldn’t have said that. That’s confidential.
I’m like, No, I’m pretty sure what you just said is confidential . Um, when did the, I I slipped one time and this was not military service, but I asked the client, you know, Well, if, can you track when the sleeping problems first started? And he told me, and apparently the response I shouldn’t have said out loud was, Oh, I read that news article.
That was you. Mm. That is not how you build rapport. Luckily, he laughed off and goes, Yeah, but here’s what we’ve done about it and here’s how that kind of issue. We’ve now got systems because I screwed up. No one got hurt. Uh, but they could have. Um, we’ve now, now got systems to prevent that. So the fact that I messed up.
Means that I got to be on the team to strategize how to never let this happen again. Mm. Uh, I was like, good, I, I feel better now. And it was more, we’ll say, bridging the gap between civilian and military. Uh, so then let’s kind of come back to that in a mo. Let’s, we, we planted the seed already. Yes. So where are you recording from right now?
So, without getting into too much about what my job is here right now, I’m in Riyad, Saudi. . Mm-hmm. , and I’m, I’ll just say I’m supporting the ministry defense over here in Riyad, Saudi Arabia. And, uh, it’s been just fascinating. Absolutely fantastic to be over here. And there’s some specific nuances that I know that I’m gonna purposefully direct you towards in a bit in terms of, you know, breaking some of the barriers as to how we can introduce hypnosis.
But let’s kind of go back inside of that origin story, uh, which is you’re fully employ. Here came the hypnosis training. Mm-hmm. At what point after that did you start to work with clients? Uh, it took, it took me a little bit. It took me a little bit. I, I, uh, I, you know, I worked with, I , I practiced a lot. I worked with friends, family, neighbors, anybody that would say yes.
And, uh, then, so it took me a good year to, to actually say, You know what, Let me start, let me start really doing this for real. And, uh, and, and then. Since I don’t have a brick and mortar, I don’t have an actual, you know, office, I get a, I, My, my work was referrals, which means anything that comes to the door that, that I, that I felt was in my wheelhouse.
I, I don’t, I’m not a doctor. I don’t do medicine. I don’t do therapy, you know, But I can help people with a lot of these everyday problems. I can help a lot of this. If everything from I lost this to this hurts to, you know, to I need to get more sleep. I was able to do all of that and I just started really getting into.
Yeah. So inside of that, you know, the beauty of what we do, and also one of the challenges of what we do is that we all kind of have different approaches, different style. We all may end up learning from. Similar people. You know, they were, when I was in Virginia, there were other people who were training courses too, and there’d sometimes be the question of, Well, did you take their class?
I’m like, Well, no. So I can’t comment directly on their event, but I can say I learned from some of the same people, um, that, that’s about as the most I can say. So would you say that there was, there’s a specific style, a specific approach, a specific way that you address the change process? Um, I, I, I, So when I, when I teach my classes with my students, I try to encourage them to, to be original.
I, I, I give them, and the element is a foundation, but I also do a, a, a, a lengthy class on how do you mo how do you take what you know from, how do you take what you can use from all the different styles? We go through all these different kinds of, in. to expose them to it. And then I show them my modifications.
Say, Look, here’s a little bit of, uh, in, in the beginning part I use some progressive relaxation. Then we do more, more conventional element. Then I’m using a guided imagery. Now here I’m using the, another deepener here I’m using, you know, so. I, I, I, I like to try to do, to look for the best as sort of the kung fu of hypnosis.
I like to try to find the best of all the other styles and try to try to, to take what I can use what fits my style from other styles. Yeah, and I really appreciate that. As opposed to the, I’m gonna brand myself as I do parts therapy, I do regression instead. It’s all these tools are flexible. It’s how we apply them to the person who’s in front of us and you know, for anyone.
I love that you mentioned the progressive muscle relaxation. There were some for a while who were trying to say that’s not even a hypno induction when Well, yeah, it is. Uh, it’s the most researched one. And also what is the goal of that? And isn’t that relaxation kind of the opposite of how everything that comes into us is some kind of a stress response.
And if only there was a thing that helped relieve stress, man, if one day we find one of those things, someone, someone, please let me, let me know. Uh, I love what you said though about how not having the brick and mortar space, not even. You know, putting out an official presence of it. So I know even these days, most of the client work that you would do and even the students would come in by way of word of mouth.
Yes. Was that something that you had some strategies to make happen or is that just kind of what happened naturally over time? It, it, it happened naturally over time, but it fit the fact that I, I do have a, a, a, a regular full-time job that takes up a good deal of my time. So it kind of allowed me to, to do hypnosis without having, letting that be eight hours of my day.
Uh, that, that’s, that’s the, that’s the best I can say. I, I, I, I, I, I do a lot of hypnosis one oh ones. I do a lot of hypnosis education and, uh, and I, I, because I, like, I’ve been teaching for 40 years, I like educating. I like, I like exposing people to new information. And I like, um, informing people. about what hypnosis really is and that, that has helped me with my quest to get to get more involved in the African American community.
Mm-hmm. , it’s helped me in, in a number over here. It’s helped me in a number of ways, cuz most people, all they know about hypnosis is what they see on, as you know, is what they see on TV or the movies or even a stage show and nothing. Obviously, you know, nothing against the stage show people, but they don’t know what hypnosis really is.
They just know what they think it is from what they see. Oh, he made him do something, you know, so, so, but from the hypnosis one oh ones, usually I get a few head nods and like, Oh, well, you know, does it, can you help me with this? Well, sure, I can let, let’s put you on the spot then. So like, what’s your answer when that question pops up, is it like what we’ve seen on tv?
Is it this, is, is that, how do you. basically do the classic debunking and go, Here’s what it really is. What’s your phrasing around that? Uh, that’s what I, that’s what I actually do. I go, I go through, uh, um, a list of about seven most common myths that I’ve heard, or I, I’ve heard you can’t make anybody do anything they wouldn’t really wanna do.
Uh, I don’t wanna be, I don’t wanna stay asleep and I don’t wanna end up, you know, I don’t wanna, I wanna, I want to remember everything. Well, of course you will. You remember everything. You’ll hear everyth. Which is always funny because they, they look at me later and says, I didn’t think that was gonna work.
Well, why goes, I heard everything you said, so I didn’t think I was sympathized. Okay. I, I told you you were gonna everything. Yeah, I know. I know, but I did. I heard everything. Yeah. Uh, which is what I said, right? Yeah. So I just, I just, I go through, That’s, that’s my class. I go through everyday examples of that.
They’ve been doing this their whole lives, and then I go through or I give them, I like to give them the opportunity to ask questions. Usually it’s, it’ll be the same seven to 10 questions, and if they don’t ask them all, then I throw in the others. And the process of undoing their fear of it makes them more open to it.
Just, just having somebody be able to. Um, calmly, clearly, intelligently explain, Okay, that’s not true because of this. Okay. Yeah, I, I’ve heard that too. That’s not true because of this, and it’s all rapport building. I love that, especially because you hit something in there about calmly and clearly explain it.
which pulls out the internal dialogue that I had when early on what built my business was going out and doing, you know, Chamber of Commerce and business networking, International BNI groups and all these different networking groups. Mm-hmm. and the internal dialogue was represent what you’re passionate about professionally prove you’re not weird.
Uh, and that’ll bring in clients Yeah. . So that it wasn’t Yes. The story they were telling themselves of the mystical creature. Mm-hmm. . Um, instead it’s this, this scene who’s gonna pounce on them. Yeah. And I, I got a credit of all people, the magicians pen and teller, who were not David Copperfield doing all the poses and playing a lot of Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins music in the nineties.
Dancing to it instead. Pen and teller were the guys wearing business suits who quote, just knew how to do a couple of really cool things and kind of letting the dialogue be a little bit more normal and just straightforward. Uh, I already told you before we started recording, these are more conversations than interviews.
So, uh, mind if I share a quick thing on that different than stage hypnosis, but No, please do. Yeah. So I will clarify when I tell this. Uh, that this is not the only reason why stage hypnosis works, but it’s perhaps about maybe 10 to 15% of it. The rest of it is quote, depending on the skills of the heist.
Yet the reason why that’s actually the same thing as the therapeutic work is because hypnotist comes out and tells the audience what’s gonna happen and doesn’t point and say, You’re my volunteer. You’re my volunteer. Instead, invites people to come. So the audience has already been told kind of what’s gonna happen.
They then call for people who already have consciously and perhaps even subconsciously agreed. That’s probably what’s gonna happen. And again, this might only be 10 to 15% of it. Yet then because of that expectation, they’re compliant with the hypnotic suggestions that create the hypnotic state to which then without taking any way of the magical way, is there any surprise that that’s then what happen?
So at the core of it, it’s the same as when you’re in front of me as my client, I am helping to amplify what you want. Mm-hmm. . So the people who volunteered for that show wanted to be on that show, and maybe as many hypnotists say in the stage environment, you’re gonna be one of the stars of the show. And they’re accepting that suggestion by coming up there, which is why in the middle of the session, you want me to talk about weight loss?
And suddenly I say, Take off your clothes and stand on your head in the corner. You’d open your eyes and look at me and go, No. Which is why I’m not gonna suggest that it comes around to the compliance and the expectation. Yes, I agree. I I do the same, do a very similar discussion. I say, I heard you can’t, you can’t make anybody do anything that you wouldn’t do in hypnosis.
But I see them on stage doing things they wouldn’t ordinarily do. I say, Well, let’s, let’s put that in context for a second. They bought a ticket to a stage hypnosis show. They went to a stage hypnosis show. When the hi, when the hypnotist says who wants to come up, they put their hand in the air, , you know, and they got up on stage so their, their mind understands, I’m here to have fun in a stage hypnosis show.
They, they’ve done a lot of the work already. Absolutely. And again, the, the ability to respond, and this is not meant to be the old bit from Mad Magazine of snappy answers to stupid questions. It’s instead, these are. The things we can explain, and I, I bring this up because there’s sometimes, Oh, but someone said hypnosis is this, or I should call it something else because of that.
And it’s not because others are saying that it’s because that new student is somewhere in their mind agreeing with those fears and concerns. Mm-hmm. and listen to the calm nature everybody. That Stephen’s just going, Well, here’s what it is, here’s how it actually works. And that conveys a greater, let’s use the word influence and a greater, you know, clarity of how we understand something and explain something.
Uh, that then is, I’d say, more contagious than the fear to say it politely. Definitely I get more people that say, you know, I was afraid of hypnosis, but. You seem to be having a lot of fun talking about it. And you, you, you did it. You’re so casual as you talk about it, it made me, it took the, took the fear out of it, which, let’s, let’s bring that now to what you’ve now done in another part of the world, uh, to bring hypnosis to a community that very clearly had some other opinions before you showed up.
I’ll, I’ll let you kind of take the stage cuz I, You can tell it better than I can. . So I got over here and so the, the, the, the, the, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has gone, undergone an incredible amount of cultural change over the last few years. For example, just a, just a, a short time ago, five years ago, maybe.
Women weren’t legally, weren’t allowed to drive. So, and there’s lots of other, lots of things that have changed there as they’re going through this whole vision. 2030, you can look it up to see the, see the, the stratum for the nation for, uh, for, for, uh, modernization. Let’s just call that for modernization.
And, and, and they’re doing it as the, the, the home of Mecca, you know, for the Islamic world. And, and so they’re, they’re, they’re taking a, a genuine leadership role and okay, we are modernizing, but still staying true to our roots. So I, um, as I started venturing out, trying to find out, okay, can I do hypnosis?
How do I do hypnosis over. Uh, some, some of the things that have changed are like, we’re seeing more. Uh, I, I, I would go to a game night and there’s men and women in the same room able to talk to each other. That’s something that just wasn’t happening. They had religious police just a few years ago who would, who, who would do things to people for something like that.
Um, so, so, so this is the younger people, the, you know, or the people who are embracing all of. It, it’s, it’s, it’s more allowed, it’s more allowable. So I was able to do, uh, a, a hypnosis 1 0 1 class, a basic class, and people came out to it. Great. I was able to do a couple online, and people came out great, but there’s still the rules of change, but the culture’s the same.
Mm-hmm. , you know, and the culture is still trying to catch up. The closest analogy I’ve been able to draw in my mind is, Imagine being in the south right around the time I was born, 1964, right after the Civil Rights Act of 64 gets passed. So desegregation is in, Is is the law? No more segregation. Great.
They change the law, but the culture was still there. Hmm. Yeah. And that takes time. That takes time, time, time. People have to age out. You know, Old thinking gets replaced by younger thinking so that the laws here have changed. , but people are still very cautious. That’s a very, Because just to jump in, that’s a very insightful thing that occurs that even as, again, as laws change, as cultures change, and even over time, I hesitate to quote a comedian with this reference, but what about the people who went to hell for eating meat on Fridays and suddenly that was okay?
Uh, as cultures change, It doesn’t mean it’s a flip of a switch and everything is then different. Right. There’s time and I, I, I have a moment when I was the stage heist and all the colorful details of this moment need not apply because it wasn’t even the show I had. I was doing a assembly program at the high school and then I was doing, uh, fundraising program that evening and.
Walked into a local restaurant and just said to the bartender, who was the only server that day going, Hey, um, I’m the guy doing the show at the school, and I’m gonna sit in that booth and use your wifi, and I’m gonna have lunch and I’m gonna have dinner, and I’m probably gonna tip like 40% if you let me hang out.
And he goes, All right. And. , it’s the scene out of the Simpsons where the guy behind the bar, the someone sitting at the bar drinking at 11:00 AM uh, says something, I believe the technical term is talks out of his ass and it’s like the bartender then, like most si lack on the Simpsons, slams the shotgun on the bar top and goes, I’m gonna ask you to leave.
Not to me, but to the guy who said the offensive thing. Um, awkward silence. And I finally. Broke the silence with wait, he didn’t pay. What do I have to pay? What do I have to say to not have to pay either? He goes, , he, he laughs and he goes, Shotgun’s not even real. It’s a toy . I’m like, Man, there’s the anxiety spike on, but what he said next would sound cruel.
But it’s something that you said. And yes, as people who can support positive change, and yes, let’s help people become more flexible and look for new understandings. . I, I have to say the man who said the thing was probably in his nineties, and it’s not my language, I’m only quoting the guy who said the offensive thing, who just said, I don’t let it bother me.
Cuz sometimes society’s just waiting for folks like that to pass on. Mm-hmm. , like that’s a phrase that I’m sure stung, but it’s like, well, yeah, let’s see what we can do to. Move the communication further, which kind of brings us back inside of this story though, as to how, here’s where the laws changed. But the culture was slow to kind of move on from there and, and, and in many ways still is.
I have a, I, I run a, a, a group on meetup specifically for over here, and I have 165 people. Can’t get ’em to talk . Mm-hmm. . Cause everybody’s, everybody’s watching to see what happens. Watching. Cause the, the, the other part about that is of that cultural change is it’s very easy in that, in that example of the end of segregation, uh, for me to say, for me to, as have been a, a black person in the south and you know, at that time and say, Well, I’m gonna go sit down on the counter and have.
And I very well might get lunch. I very well might get, got, get beat up by everybody in the restaurant too. So everybody here is, we’re, we’re not sure if things are gonna change back tomorrow. Mm-hmm. or, or not. So, so they’re, they’re hesitant but curious. And that’s, if the curious part I’m good with. So I, I’ve, I’ve done maybe a dozen classes of, of, you know, and I’ve met some other, uh, there’s maybe.
seven hypnotists in the country that I’ve been able to locate and only one has actually responded. Yeah. So it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s been interesting. I’ve had to, to do some research and cuz I’m, I’m here, I’ve been here for almost a year, so I’m doing my best to understand the culture and, and not try to bend the culture.
To me, I have to understand the culture and find a way to weave in. And, uh, so, so like I found, uh, there’s art discussions begin. from, from the Quran. And then they, they go out into fatwas, which kind of def uh, are more like laws edicts, explaining particular things that, that, that, that go back. So I was able to find, uh, earlier Fatwas said hypnosis was a no-no.
Cuz it didn’t, because the belief was that it involved the use of evil, it involved the use of dark powers to manipulate people and make people do. I was able to find a more recent set of fatwas that, that put it more online with meditation, yoga, uh, therapy. You know, that is okay. So, so the, as long as you’re not using evil, using any evil powers and you are trying to, in, your intention is good and you want to help people, you can do hyp.
And that’s, that’s, so if somebody, nobody’s come to me and said, Hey, you’re not allowed to do this. You know, I, but if they do, I’ve got this handy, and I’ve also shared it with the people in my meetup group and other discussion groups that I’m in over here. So I’m, I’m trying to show my awareness of the culture, my understanding of as, as best I can.
Uh, the people here are wonderful. The people have been, I’ve met incredibly wonderfully open people here. Uh, . I, I want, I want to go back to the analogy thing for just a second. Can I? Yeah, absolutely. So we allow metaphorical talk on hypnosis podcast. It’s okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, so, so I started thinking like, wow, how is this culture making, doing this much change this fast?
I mean, it, it is been 58 years. I turned 58 in a couple, in a couple of weeks, 58 years since the end of segregation, and we’re still having issues in America. This has been five years and they have done monumental change. And so some of the, some of the, my observation of some of the differences, One, this is an extremely well educated population.
By 1964 in America, most people only had a, an elementary school education. This is, the college is free here. Most of these, most, most of Saudi citizens at least have, uh, have a degree, have been to the United States, have traveled, they speak English well, vast majority of them speak English, or at least are, are very, they’re very well educated.
Um, so that wasn’t the case in America. Next thing. . They have, they have, they have access to information. You know, we didn’t have the internet in 1964. Obviously they have that. So, so they’re, they, they have television that brings them. They have, you know, CNN and Allergies era that brings them news from around the world so they can see, They’re able to see this is how other people live around the world.
This is how other people treat people around the world. So they’re able to say, Okay, now I, I want to be part of that global community. I want to, to have these things. Also, it’s not, we’re not bringing them something that they’ve never seen before. They’ve seen hypnosis on television or in movies or something.
At least have seen things. Um, whereas ni you know, again, America 1964, we had what, three television stations, you know, and radio. So it depends on how you get your information. And of course, that the TV then was heavily censored, so they only were, were only broach so many topics. Uh, and the last thing, the last noticeable difference that I, that I made out.
Is they have access to mental health. They have access to mental healthcare. Yeah. They have access to, they have ACC access to, to, they can see a therapist, they can see a psychologist. They can see a counselor, they can see a hypnotist. Mm-hmm. , if, you know, and, and that, that never existed. You know, and, and it’s still a big issue, which is a different topic for African Americans, is mental health, getting rid of the stigma of mental health.
Of, of, of you know, what’s wrong with you and, and how, and what are you doing about it, and why are you gonna go see a psychologist for something that over that, or a therapist or hypnotist over that thing. See, I, I, I take everything you said, and I also look at how we can apply the same statement to even different pockets of the United States.
Mm-hmm. that, you know, I’ve, I’ve had people who, when I was in Virginia. , You know, it would try to draw every stereotype out of who would come to see me as, let’s say, even just the stop smoking client or the weight loss client. And I say for every stereotype you might create in your mind, the opposite consistently comes in.
You know, the well educated person who might even be the doctor or the nurse, the number of healthcare providers that I saw for stop smoking. And yet we don’t have to be flawless, uh, yet, I would say we should be willing to use our own modalities. The, um, branching off of, you know, this law said this and then eventually the thought was said that, um, I’ll shorten the story.
The moment where a client in my office said that she was gonna quit smoking because her husband said she needed. Which is normally a red flag, but she says, mm-hmm. in my Islamic faith, I need to honor and respect the wishes of my husband. Mm-hmm. , and as the classic movie said, Well, that’s a horse of a different color.
She then sat up, right and said, By the way, I’m paying cash because he need not concern himself with how I’ve quit , I love this . So different parts of the world different. You know, segments and mm-hmm. . I, I love the way that you broke that down. I, I actually, before you even did that, I wrote down a formula, um, which will come down in a bit, and it’s to ask the question of n not necessarily the word why in a judgemental way, but really let’s soften it.
What are the experiences that help to validate people’s belief systems? And it’s where. I, I think, to a family member who, um, what was the old line when Ronald Reagan got shot? Hope the doctor’s not a hope. The surgeon’s not a Democrat. , uh, the, the family member who we kind of had to talk off the ledge that No, it’s okay.
That your surgeon for this heart procedure as a woman, uh, which. Was 25 years ago and was already well established. But this is the person who didn’t trust doctors and wouldn’t go to one no matter the gender apparently was the real story. Uh, but it’s to ask what is it that makes someone believe this?
And I’d bring about the most far off correlation I can give you. In the theater world, when I worked there, there were two people who were known for teaching actors how to speak with dialect. One of them was the mathematician. She would come in and teach the phonetic library and, you know, swap out this sound for that sound.
And like you would rewrite your script. There’s my dogs. You would rewrite , you would rewrite the, uh, the, the script of the play phonetically to hit the right sounds. And the way that this culture does this one, this culture does that one her quote competition. And the two are actually friends would come in and for this group of actors, explain.
What was going on in Northern Ireland as this play was written and what was going on in their culture and why the Northern Irish dialect is different than the traditional Irish accent. And as if by like, you know, osmosis or diffusion as if like by magic, once they understood the psychological profile of the culture, of the time the actors had the dialect mm-hmm.
uh, and, and she would do this and there’d be moments. Is that voice really coming from that little British lady of she would research the culture and what I, the formula that I wrote down was when we catch ourselves in a place where we may be up against something, start with a formula of appreciation, and then always lead with education, and then the education then becomes advocacy.
that it’s not the, and I haven’t heard this at all, so we can throw rocks at this together. Um, I haven’t heard the, Oh, here’s why they’re wrong. And I think that’s the mistake that a lot of people get into on topics even far beyond hypnosis and just in our culture. Instead, everything you just said was that appreciation of, Well, here’s why they are this way, here’s why it’s different where I’m from.
And once we have that appreciation, then we. The same way as in personal change, the same way into the problem can also become the same way out of it. That it is this, you know, education, it’s this advocacy, it’s this. Let’s quote Steve Martin in the middle of this, as he once said, Well, my business model was simple.
Just become so good. They can’t ignore you and believe in it as much yourself, so others will then naturally follow. So then what kind of changes have you seen then in terms of. You know, working with the meetup group, working with your, I believe you’re currently running a class out there and working with clients in the short span of time, what’s the difference that you’ve seen is now they have a better, let’s say, understanding of exactly what is hypnosis and what you do?
Well, it’s not like I’m speaking to the entire population, so I just get to go by the people who, who I know and the people that, that come to my clients that come to see me, um, what I can say. . When I get a referral from somebody, somebody else that I’ve worked with, it’s usually, Oh, I spoke. She, she, she told me what happened.
She told me everything about, and I’m so glad you’re here, . And, uh, the most of my clients are women, that that’s kind of universal because women will do something about whatever the problem is, men will limp along forever. But women find something wrong and they want to fix it. So, so yay women and, uh, and over here.
So, so the, getting to your question over here, the biggest thing that I, that I run into is women trying to keep up with the cultural change. So that means being able to work in vastly male spaces. I’m seeing women in the Ministry of Defense, That’s never happen. It’s never happened. It’s first time we were seeing women walk around in the Ministry of Defense.
So being able to be in male spaces, be heard, be in the moment, be able to speak up when they need to with, you know, as part of their job. I worked with a lady who had a, just got promoted into a position and she had a brief. She now, now that she’s in this position, she has to give classes an instruction to men and to some women, but mostly to men.
And it’s, it’s, it was such a, it’s such a cultural shock to her system to be in a position of authority around men. This is, again, not just five years ago, Well, five, six years ago, you could get in trouble. She could have got in trouble for being outside without a man. It could be a boy 10 years old, but she had to have a male presence with her, for her to be outside.
And, um, so for her to now be at the front. Giving this, giving this, the, this lecture on something that she has a degree in, it is experienced in and is actually in a position of authority. It still gave butterflies. So, so, so to be able to help her with that, or the lady, another client who had a, were on a teleconference and her boss, Cause again, just cause the law has changed, the culture hasn’t changed.
Her boss introduces, says, Oh, this is my assistant and he keeps going. Every I’ll do their. And, uh, after our, because she came to me because of stuff like this, after our sessions, she said he, he did that to her. And she says, after they do all the introductions, she says, Actually, I’m the senior manager in charge of this, this, and this.
I’m the person you come to. If you have any problems with this, please come back and, you know, see me if you have any questions. And she was just giddy, giddy with me, you know, in the follow up session. I’m a bad, bad woman.
I spoke up, I stood my ground. I’m a bad, bad woman, you know? Bad. Bad. In a powerful way. Yeah, yeah. You know, I’m like, Which she actually used a stronger word than the, than what I’m using . I, I’m assuming so. Yeah. . Yeah. But, but just, those are the kinds of, those are the kinds of things that I’m running into.
And the kind of changes that we’re seeing is people, they’re, they’re, they’re looking to be more in the moment, more present, more able to speak up because the culture has not. Has has not allowed, it has not said that this is something that you can do. The culture here in this country has not said that’s something that you can do.
So those are the changes that I’m seeing and I’m really happy about. Okay, so this next question’s entirely just for me and everyone else. You could all keep listening, Uh, and I and I, no, and I will ask, I will say some questionable words in this, and only because it’s the direct quote. The word is very necessary for the story.
Uh, but it, it’s like what you said. Society moves forward, and yet people still clinging to the belief system. And I worked with her, she was in her early forties, and disclaimer to the word, it was a different time. And at one point they looked at her as the young teenager, uh, or even late, you know, around 10 or 11 years old.
And back then the phrase was, Well, you’re retarded. Let’s put you in the slow. and years later it turned into why is the girl with that word attached to her on track to become the valedictorian. Hmm. And nowadays there’s a bigger span of a spectrum of definitions. Sure. Um, though I. Maybe incorrect on this cuz I don’t position myself as being someone who diagnosis or treats the diagnostic words.
Um, yet I read something that, you know, there’s some communities that say this is what the high functioning Asperger’s is. This is now just included inside the autism spectrum. And she was really there instead of what the original slap this word on her and Right. I mean, running a multimillion dollar company.
And, um, managing a team and funding a nonprofit and doing incredible advocacy work across different groups, not just in mental health. And yet on the days where something, you know, gets in the way, the internal story is still the old word that someone attached to her. And even though she knows that’s not who I am, that’s not what I’ve gone through.
Um, It’s instead, here’s what I’ve done as a result of it, and how do we let go of the story ourselves? And I mean the military personnel that I’d work with more so when I was in Virginia, so much of it, and this is something I learned from Michael Elner of the, I’m not the person I used to be being part of the story.
And that can go in a negative way and it can also, in her case, the story I just shared goes in a positive way. So as much as society may be the slow moving train, and yes, we can create change rapidly. Is is that something that you’ve run into anywhere where they’re holding onto the story, they’re holding onto the perception, not just the culture around them isn’t moving forward?
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I think that’s the, probably the vast majority of what I have over here, and it’s very working here, is very similar to working with the African American community, where the younger people now are embracing hypnosis more and more, more open to it. But the people might, old people like me, Are, are very reluctant to.
Um, but that’s, it’s just, I, I think you hit the nail on it earlier that it’s just a matter of making sure that they, they feel, they, they, they sense the respect of the culture, the respect of themselves, and, uh, and that I’m not trying to impose anything on anybody. I’m just, I’m just providing educat. . Yeah.
Which I know this year, this episode, you know, we record this in advance and then we release them on schedule recording at the end of June. And this is coming out, uh, basically the first full week of July. And I know coming up later in July, you’re gonna be, uh, speaking on some of these themes at Hypno Thoughts Live.
And, uh, know this is not me asking you to give the entire presentation now. Thank you, uh, . But can you hit on some of the themes and let people know what. What that presentation is gonna be. Sure. This year I, I’ve done it at Hypno Thoughts for the last couple of years. I’ve done it over at, uh, Ngh, also in other places, uh, Blurred Con I go, I go out to the Blurred Con is a black nerd conference, so I go out and I.
Discussion there. And the discussion is about, um, I just learned a new word and you made my dance . The blurs blurs on. I’m gonna resist Googling that while you now answer my question. I’m gonna write it down to look at it later. . Yeah. So I, I, I try to get out into the black community. I, I, I run the, uh, Association of Black Hypnotist Group on Facebook.
Uh, the, so at a in, in Hypno Thoughts Live this year, instead of just me, we’re doing a panel discuss. We have some really good, uh, African American hypnotists or African hypnotists, actually one’s just one’s African hypnotist. But speaking about hypnosis from a black perspective and every, we’re gonna give a few minutes of discussion about, uh, perceptions in the black community.
Perceptions hypnotists have perceptions, black gl. And then we’re also gonna give each of the panel members a chance to tell their own story, their own story, their own observations, what it means to them to be black and be hyp. Uh, it’s, it’s gonna be a very, very good discussion. It’s, it’s not, It’s not, uh, a racism.
You’re, you’re all racist. Here’s racist. Here’s racism, here’s the history of racism. This is about being black and how we’re seen, how we interact, uh, things that, that how people perceive us and, and treat us, Uh, and how hypnosis is seen by the black community. You know, like I was saying, you know, there’s a, there’s been a huge stigma attached to it in the, in the black community and there’s very much.
Um, if it’s something, if it’s a soft thing, you know, depression, soft, like, not, not, not a, you don’t have a broken bone, you know, you have depression, you have anxiety, you have stress, all that stuff. It really is seen as something that you can, uh, that you should be able to just handle on your own. And then that’s where finally breaking through that, we’re finally breaking through that.
But we’re gonna talk about some, some origin type stories. Some stories of how, uh, people were treated differently and some stories maybe of how we were treated the same. So it, it’ll be, it’ll be a good discussion. I hope people come out. This is, don’t look at the title and say Black, Black perspectives and think that this is a class, a discussion for black people.
It is not the discussion. It’s, it’s really the opposite. It’s us talking to everybody else saying, Come on in, ask us some questions. Find out more about this demographic and how you can reach it as ifp it is, and let’s, let’s, let’s provide some education and inform. So I’d be curious to ask two things, which I’m sure will probably come up during the panel.
You mentioned that here’s the younger generation that is responding to it, um, in a very different way. Is there something you can pinpoint, and it may be something you’ve already talked about as to if there was a specific cultural shift, which kind of defines why a new generation is coming into. . Okay, so this is only Steven’s opinion, and I’m not an anthropologist or anything like, this is only my opinion.
I think that the older community was very religiously rooted and, and, and there’s, there’s a, a phrase that, that’s used. You know, you get, just pray, you know, pray, pray about it. There’s something wrong with you. Pray about it and, and if it’s still wrong with you, then you’re not praying hard. And again, education, cultural shift over time, access to information.
The younger people say, Oh, mental illness is a real thing where depression is a real thing and there’s stuff you can do about it. There’s actual other stuff that you can do about it. And that’s not saying, that is not a dis uh, cast dispersion on religion, on anybody’s religion, anything like that. But the, the younger people are, are finding out is, okay, this is one more.
I can see a therapist, I can go, I can do this, I can do that. Or I can see the hypnotist. This is one more thing. So they’re, they’re much more, uh, able to see options, see this as an option for, for, for whatever, whatever it is that they wanna work on. And it does, as you know, it doesn’t have to be something that’s wrong with you.
We now know h we can use hypnosis to do things better, be a better athlete, be a better student, be a better singer, be a better. so you don’t have to have a problem. And so that’s, they’re also embracing that too. How can I use this to be better at things? So that’s the big, that’s the, probably the, the, the one main thing was the, the older community.
Cause, you know, for, for a long, for the longest arm, religious is what held the black community together is what kept us going. So it accepted us from , kept us from, from losing our minds a lot of time has been able to have been able to pray, have a good religious center and, and to be, to be, to be able to endure.
I branch off of the word better and I share, you know, a personal experience, which, and I’ve had this conversation with other, you know, um, other cultures, other ethnicities, other everything over time. And there’s this balance sometimes, which is, you know, I, I’ll leave out the who because it’s something.
This person actually said the podcast episode doesn’t need to be about that. Um, yet it was the, I don’t want to have the highlighting as to here’s the, oh, and they’re this. Um, but there’s this balance of representation but also this desire to go and I can appreciate this intention cuz like, even as I work with my clients, uh, I’m like, I don’t want you coming back next week and saying, Wow, this was amazing.
I hit the gym three times. Eight on my diet the full week. Cuz if you’re celebrating that, yes, that’s good, but that means you’re still observing it as it being unique. Right. And that, and I want you to, you know, treat it as if the, you know, someone here is my usual routines when I’m not recovering from a surgery and they’re like, um, how do you go to the gym like that?
Say, Well I’ve kind of done it for eight years. Mm-hmm. just, it’s just what I do. And you know, I’ve had moments of back when it was the stage hypnosis. And it was the little nudge. And there’s a horrible joke that’s an aside to this, uh, , which was I sent the posters to a school one time and it showed with permission photos that were taken from various schools.
Um, and the rule was if it was a photo they also used for the yearbook. It meant it was going out in a public platform and I then reached out and got permission to go, Can I get access to that photo and use it in a poster? And we got kids to sign off and the parents to sign off on it, and it only took one time.
And they were absolutely right for the school administrator to look at the posters and go, Huh. Lot of white kids. It’s like, Well, we’re not quite representing. So I, I kind of ask you, and it’s okay if it’s entirely general, um, but as we’re aware of the entire rest of. Hypnosis culture, if you can kind of pinpoint either one or two things that either we can do better or we can be mindful of, uh, to move forward, what would that possibly be?
Yeah. I don’t want, I don’t wanna do too much of the actual discussion for hypno thoughts, but I, I would say, uh, one or two things would be don’t feel like, don’t, don’t eliminate yourself from, from the, from that community. Don’t say, Well, they wouldn’t want to talk to me because I’m white for. You know, reach out, find an event, reach out to the community, see if they’re interested.
See, you know, come. You might have to go to them. Go to where they are. Go to where the people are, whatever, whoever they are, whatever that group is, Asian, gay, trans, whatever, whatever that group is, black. Find out where they are and say, hey. You know, I, this is what I do is do you, can I, can I come give a class?
Can I come? Yeah. You gotta give ’em some exposure to it. And, uh, that’s, that’s probably the most important thing is to, is to, to reach out and, uh, and, and get some cultural awareness. Col some, some cultural awareness would really help. And I did a class on rapport and diversity. Over at, at NG a few years ago, and the guy says, Oh, just be professional.
No, it takes a little bit more than that. You really gotta have to have to. Yeah. , you know, he was dead serious. And thankfully this, uh, this, this retired, uh, army, um, clergy, she had been in the Army for 30 something years. She says, No, no, no. You have to have a database of different cultures so that you can relate to people where they are.
and not expect everybody to come to you. You gotta be able to relate to ’em. So, but, but you have to, in order for you to gain that database, that mental database, you have to go visit, Immerse yourself, participate in, understand the culture. You know, they’re, they’re not, they’re not gonna come bank hunting you down.
You have to go, you have to go get in there, find out, you know, go to a Juneteenth thing and say, Okay, what is this? I don’t know. Let me find out. You know, you have to be able to do that with, with, with whatever the group. I love that as the approach, cuz again, it goes back to what you had said earlier about how education has been the key.
You know, and this is not my quote, but it was the button on that previous conversation of, uh, what was they said, Um, integration without net, without absolutely necessary, spotless, spotlighting. I’m like, I can appreciate that. So it’s not the, Oh, we’re doing this because it’s like, no, I just want to connect with other people and say, here’s a way I can help, can I be a resource?
Right. And to lead with that is, is where so much of it moves forward. I do have the tie up, the loop that I opened up earlier though, which is the group of us in college as myself, the half Jew, half Southern Baptist family. And uh, I’ll let your imagination fill in the rest of the details that our circle of friends we refer to as the.
College catalog cover. Mm-hmm. , uh, . Cause like, Oh, we really have everyone here. It’s like, Oh yeah. And it was not until someone else, six months into the friendship goes, Oh, did you notice? I’m like, No, we didn’t. And that’s kind of what makes it better, rather than going, Oh, because, uh, this has been eye-opening, especially.
To hear the, the connections to how the experience living in the states to then what another culture is going through. And we’re always, we’re always kind of on the cusp of the next civil rights movement and variations of that and what we all continue to understand. So I, I thank you for the work that you’re doing.
And where can, where can people get in contact with you? How can they find out more about you? So, yes, I’m a, I’m a, I’m still a bit of a dinosaur. I, uh, I have my, I have my website, explore hypno.com. Unfortunately, I’m not on, uh, that’s explore hno.com. Uh, you can email [email protected] That’ll come right to me.
Uh, unfortunately I’m not on Snapchat, Insta, or anything like that. Uh, those are the best ways to reach me. and or, or if you’re on Facebook, you can find out that you can join the, uh, association of Black Hypnotists. It’s actually only for black hypnotists. So we, we appreciate the allies, we appreciate the co-conspirators, but this is a, that’s a, a space.
Just for us to be able to talk about whatever we’re doing and and issues that we’re having or something like that. Absolutely fair is neither of us can join the Hypnotic Women Group, but we can support Kelly. We go that amazing group too. . Exactly. Which tell you what, this is episode number 380 of the podcast.
So if y’all go to work smart hypnosis.com/. 3 8 0 that’ll bring you over to the show notes. And Steve, I’ll connect with you to get all the links. That way we can share those with everyone who listens. And, uh, again, phenomenal to have you on. If you’re a member, I. Appropriately pestered you a few times over the years to come on this program and thank you so much for saying yes and thank you so much to whoever laid the internet over in Saudi Arabia cuz the connection has been phenomenal, uh, in terms of audio quality.
Uh, before we wrap this up, any final thoughts for the listeners out there? Again, when it, if it comes to, to other cultures, is to go ahead and venture out and learn, learn about the culture, a lot of, lot of, a lot of my approach to this has been, has come from the Marine Corps. Where we go around the world and have to fit in, have that, the first thing we do is have to understand the culture that we’re about to step into.
Understand it first, then go in and then see how, you know, see, we have them, see where we can do and if we, how we can help. But you have to understand the other culture first. Uh, this is, being here has been very interesting, is that I’m, uh, I’m not the black hypnotist. I’m not the black guy over here. I’m just, I’m just the American.
I’m the American hypnotist over here, and uh, so that’s, that’s been interesting as well. But yeah, overall education, understanding a little bit of humility goes a long, long way.
See, I told you so. Hey, it’s Jason Linett. This has been the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and all the references we made, the resources we mentioned, the ways to connect with Steven. Head over to work smart hypnosis.com/ 380. Work Smart hypnosis.com four slash three 80. That will give you the show notes specifically for this episode.
Tell you about the upcoming hypno thoughts, live convention, the ways to connect with Steven, and the ways to help our incredible community grow and break barriers all around the world to all sorts of cultures. Thanks for listening. See you soon. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.