Session #428: Joachim Lee on Releasing Trauma with Eye Movement

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast session number 428 Joachim Lee on Releasing trauma with Eye movement.

Welcome to The Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Linett, your professional resource for Hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Linett.

Do you know that situation where sometimes you hear somebody say it’s all connected, and when they say, it’s all connected, it’s kind of more of a metaphorical description of how it’s all connected? Well, I think this week’s conversation with Chim Lee is one that really illustrates well, yes, indeed, it actually is all connected. Hey, it’s Jason. And welcome back to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast. And Joachim Lee from Singapore is someone who I’ve known for quite some time. And I will tell you that the conversation you’re about to listen in on is one that is quite remarkable in terms of breaking down the science of rapid change.

And some of the real key takeaways inside of this dialogue is getting into the science of how it works and why it works, as well as a beautiful illustration of how we can work symbiotically with another helping professions. There’s this incredible story of him working side by side along with a psychiatrist who then referred a patient to then become his client. So what’s interesting in this dialogue, though, is, well, at one point, I just let him go because, oh, man, wealth of knowledge, ton of information, and just the personable style of just the delivery that you can really hear. This is a person who’s not only gone through his own personal journey over time, but also has become massively passionate helping others to do the same as well.

So be sure to check out the show notes attached to this episode as there’s some training opportunities, there’s some recommendations for books. You can find everything over worksmarthypnosis.com/428. This is session number 428. We just make that number redirect over to where you want to go. So head over there, check that out, because especially coming up next year, in the early part of the year 2024, there’s an opportunity coming up in Vegas. And as you’re about to listen in on, this is a series of strategies and methodologies that you do not want to miss out on. You can find all the details right now by heading over to worksmarthypnosis.com/428 and while you’re there, also check out worksmarthypnosislive.com.

This is a rather unique live and online interactive Hypnosis training event, which is one part about helping you to become even more confident in your skill sets, another about bringing the research and the proof into the work that you do, and also something that shouldn’t necessarily have to be a unique point these days. It’s the opportunity to learn from people who have actually seen thousands of clients of their own and continue to see clients to this day. It’s where it should be a bit of a red flag to learn from someone who’s not actively doing the work, because people change, trends change, the research advances. And that’s one of the big promises you get from our Work Smart Hypnosis Live and online event. If you head over to worksmarthypnosislive.com, there’s a whole video tour that walks you through the program.

Once again, I’ve got Dr. Richard Nongard joining me as a co host of this interactive event, which typically about half the audience are people who are perhaps brand new to Hypnosis, and this is the very first training that they’re doing. Meanwhile, the other half of you already have perhaps significant training are likely already seeing clients, and yet you’re starting to see where there’s gaps in your skills and abilities. Your reliability of actually getting the result is becoming a concern. And that’s why we have such a diverse audience joining us regularly for the Work Smart Hypnosis live event. So check out the details over at, you know, the page Worksmarthypnosislive.com. And with that, let’s dive directly in. This is a conversation you don’t want to miss. Here we go. It’s session number 428. Joachim Lee on releasing trauma with eye movement.

It started with me having my own struggles, learning about myself, learning in terms of how to be a human being. I was so wide to a point that I just wanted to learn how to be a better human being. So there’s been a constant journey of learning, discovering, learning, discovering, practicing, and to a point that I found that I just needed to learn more, because every time I discover something, I find I’m stuck in another thing. So that’s when I learned hypnosis, I learned therapy. I learned this to a point that it ended up eye movement.

And it’s like every part of it is like a piece of pile has been fixed to a point that, hey, I got a great picture now in terms of how to help myself and to help my clients to overcome the struggles and the change that they want to work on.

So then along that journey, there’s a whole theme that I love to chat on here about when it’s not that our problems go away, it’s that our problems often become more interesting. And we realize, here’s another it’s not that, oh, I was working on the wrong thing. It was instead that it reveals sort of the next step of the journey. What are your thoughts on that way of thinking, of the need for something, of a continuation?

Yes, I like that because it’s not just like you have something and you get it fixed completely. It’s like every part of the journey there’s something more to learn. And once you learn it’s like door opens up to a greater learning. And I fully agree with that because that’s something I learned from myself and from my clients, too, is that once you open a change process for them, once they learn to have a handle of what’s going on, it’s as if, AHA, and I can do this now, and how about this? So it’s always an ongoing process of changing, growing, changing, growing. And the key is this no one has it immediately. It’s an ongoing process. And so when my client says, I have something, I said, okay, we got to learn to get a better handle of it.

And once you get a better handle of it is that then you can begin to enjoy life and see where it takes you. And that’s very liberating for many people. Rather than saying that I need to be fixed and then to be perfect straight away. Yeah, that’s a myth. I mean, that’s something that in my work with my clients, they begin to discover that, oh, yes, it’s not an end goal. It’s the journey that’s so important and living fully.

I’m having to sit over here and smile because and I’ll send it to you in a quick message after we wrap up this recording. It’s this image that I found online. It’s one of those little blackboards where you have, like, the little white plastic letters you can spell out words in, and it spells out the phrase adulthood is saying, but after this week, things will slow down a bit over and over until you die.

Oh, I like that.

That’s positive.

Yeah.

There’s some in the audience that perhaps have not yet met you or seen the work that you do. Could you share a bit more about where you’re located and the types of clients that you tend to work the most with?

Okay, first of all, my name is Joachim, and I’m based in Singapore, and I’ve been practicing therapist for the past 22 years now. And interestingly, the clients I’m seeing nowadays are very varied in terms of having issues with mental wellness, depression, anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, you name it. I’ve been dealing with all sorts of presenting issues, and I’m just always amazed at how resilient human beings are. And especially for the past few years now, I’ve been working a lot with the psychiatrist, where even psychiatrists, in terms of recovery, they’ve been referring their patients to me because they find that they can’t do anything, medication can work. And I become like the last resort for many doctors. And if don’t mind if I share a quick case here, just to bring a point across.

No, that’d be great.

Yeah. This happened six months ago where this psychiatrist referred this man to me, 55 years old, been diagnosed with anxiety, depression for the past 35 years. And to a point, his mental wellness was deteriorating, and he began to have suicidal ideation, and he just couldn’t get out of it. So the doctor said, you’re in high dosage of medication. Nothing works. See, Joachim, I have heard of him. So he sees me, and he wanted to rattle off his story. I said, no, wait, hold on. I don’t need to hear your story. Just tell me in TikTok version, a Reader’s Digest version what’s the issue here? I learned that phrase from my clients.

I’m not stealing that, I’m modeling that.

Yes, please do that. I bought it from my clients. I must tell you my stories like I’ve been told by my other therapist that I need to give him a whole history and everything so I don’t need to just give me a TikTok version and then we know the direction to take. So he began, just give me one or two sentence, what happened? And we embarked on the if moments that I’m using nowadays and I swear you’re not. At the end of the session he was so awestruck he said that I don’t know what happened he says if a heavy load is off my shoulders and the best part, he says, is I feel tingling all around my skull and the back of my head feels a bit sore but I feel I’m so alive now.

Then he began to rattle off what happened to him and guess what? It only took that one session for him to be completely out of his depression, out of his anxiety and to begin to enjoy his life. So when I saw him two weeks later and say, you know, joking I’ve been doing other things that I’ve stopped doing I enjoy my life now I’ve been cooking, I’ve been gone back to work, I’ve enjoyed my family the doctor even called me out what happened? What has changed in him? And all it took was just to begin, first of all, to believe himself and to sort of rewire his brain a strange way and realize that I can be alive now. And for past six months now, I’ve been checking in normal medication. The last I heard, he’s now gone to Australia to revisit his family.

And today, to rest the trauma he went through, where he was raped by his teacher when he was ten years old. And beautiful. So I’ve been seeing clients, patients after patients, clients after clients with such presentation and I said, wow, never imagined we’re doing such work and with such precision and effectiveness.

I going to resist the urge to make the entire rest of this conversation about that one story because there’s so many pieces inside of it. Although the one part I’d love to kind of amplify is that there is I’ll phrase it in a very negative way they’ll listen for the entire intention of it. There is a dying dialogue within, I’d say mostly the American side of hypnosis that there’s this us versus them and I will simply say that I’ve noticed more it’s a scare tactic used by some organizations to try to keep members will I say that it doesn’t exist at all? No, it absolutely does exist. However, the majority that I tend to interact with, the psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, therapists, of all different variations tend to be ones that are in the direction of what you shared, which is remarkable.

And it’s the well, I’ll keep the details short here, but a time where I had a specific diagnosis and it was the psychiatrist who said, oh, well, there’s basically three medications for that. Let’s see which one works. And it was an admitted process of elimination. This one? No. This one, not at all. This one, what the hell was that? Everything’s resolved. And it’s where sometimes it’s just that might not be the best desired route. And it’s not to say the entire category is wrong. It’s to say that there might have been other things that needed to be addressed. And that’s clearly what came of the story. Is there anything that you’re doing to specifically cultivate that kind of connected relationship or how is it that these doctors are finding you?

Well, I’ve been going around speaking to doctors and sharing with doctors in terms of the science behind what I do. Most of the time, many of us just assume this is nonsense or this is just I know better. So when I begin to share with them the science, what happens in the brain, and this is something I’m very passionate about nowadays, that when we want to do good work, when we want to help someone to change, we need to understand what happens in the brain, not from a psychiatric perspective, but in terms of the limbic system. Because at the end of the day, guess what? The most primitive part of the brain is? The limbic system, the reptilian brain. And that part of brain is constantly hardwired for our survival.

Its main purpose is to learn something quick, automate it, and to ensure we survive. So guess what? When we develop a sense of insecurity, for example, or depression or anxiety or any mental health, for example, or trauma, it’s always that part of brain that is overcompensating doing something because it has a sense of there’s a threat. So when I educate doctors and is realizing, hey, there’s a science behind it makes sense, they can’t deny it. And also, because I show hard evidence, I do EEG analysis, I gave them the data, realize it makes sense. So that begins to open up the possibility that they may not have all the answers. And perhaps there is an approach where people can recover faster or better.

So I just gave a talk to a group of psychiatrists two days ago, and some of the doctors say that it’s amazing that Jokin’s work is just a single session where patients, clients we call them, right, have not recovered in the past 10, 20 years. Just sees me one session and they recover. Not that they step out of it, but in terms of they get back control of their lives. And that’s the focus of what we are looking at, how the clients get back control. And they know they can do this or that without that issue paralyzing them. So that’s where the science comes in, Jason understanding the brain and what happens that makes the difference in what I’m doing nowadays.

Well, let’s dive into that topic then, which would be that what is the science of the brain that does support the statement that the change can be that rapid?

Okay, cool. And very briefly, I do eye movement, right? So we know that the eyes is the receiver of information. So when information goes from the eyes, it goes into the telomus. The signal goes to telomeres. Telomus is located in the limbic system. And from the telomeres, they will send a signal to a prefrontal cortex, is where the rational brain comes in. And we think and the speed for that to happen is 0.5 milliseconds. All right? And that’s very fast. However do you know that before you can go to a prefrontal cortex, the information television goes to the amygdala, the fight fly of freeze response part of the brain. And that takes 00:25 milliseconds. It’s twice the speed. So imagine this.

When the megdala gets tray because there’s a threat or perceived threat or someone is charging at you, the information we know from science, it stops in amygdala. It doesn’t flow to a prefrontal cortex. It just gets locked in your amygdala to fight a fight a freestyle response. And when that happens, not only does the prefrontal cortex does not work because we need to respond quickly, the hippocampus, the other part of the brain in a limbic system, restores explicit memory. It gets distorted because of the stress hormones or cortisol no adrenaline has been released in the body. It distorts the way the hippocampus encodes the memory. So which means if you’re exposed to a stressful situation day in, day out, the information not only gets distorted, it gets locked in a certain perspective.

That’s why many times we find ourselves repeating, reacting in a way that sounds strange. It looks strange. It’s not that they do it on purpose. It’s just that the amygdala is firing the same response that there’s a fear be hyper vigilant and act now.

Well, just to swoop in on that, it’s how there’s a lot of conversations around how even emotion shows up as habituated. Habit. And that brings us to exactly part of why I would ask a silly question that will likely lead to somewhere very good, though, which is one of the correlations that I give is just the simple experience of slump down. Think like the body posture of a rag doll. Let your face kind of melt and kind of let everything sink down. And now say I’m having the happiest day of my life. And we start to kind of crack up at the idea because it doesn’t line up versus the opposite if big smile, arms out, wide, confident gesture. And it’s that everybody in the world is out to screw me over and take advantage of me.

And we laugh at the idea of it and it’s the simplest definition, the simplest correlation really as to how there’s this physiological connection, there’s this association that certain postures, certain things, whether it’s within our biology or nature versus nurture. Here’s the silly question though. Why the eyes, though?

Interesting, thank you for that. Do you know the eyes, just the eyes itself is connected to your emotional part of your brain. It’s connected to the way you perceive and also connected to the part of you that is wired to take action when there’s threat. So in other words, the eyes is the major organ that connects to our thinking, our emotions and our physiology. And again, this is not joking saying, this is heart science that has discovered the power of the eyes alone.

Let me paraphrase that for a moment here, because I love that, because often people would say, oh, it’s all connected. And I just said it’s all connected too. So guilty. Yet here’s where no, physically, here’s the map of it is connected. This thing leads directly into that thing. And there’s part of that definition for us.

Yes, it’s completely connected. And because the way it’s connected to the centers of the brain, which means that when we move our eyes in a specific way and this is research, again, tons of research, even the neuroscientist from Stanford is making neuroscience popular hypno. Andrew Huberman, in his research and everyone’s research, they found that when we move our eyes in a goal directed way, in a purposeful way, it literally deactivates. Your amygdala, the amygdala that’s heightened in terms of hyper vigilance, of fighting, fleeing, gets deactivated. And not only that, your prefrontal cortex regains full functioning. So which means you can think, which means you can process information and take mature responses, actions, and not just reacting. So that’s the beauty on this, how Gold directive moments begin to shift, the way the brain has been hyper vigilant to back to baseline.

Let me try a metaphorical description of, well, metaphorically something else and tell me if this is lining up. It’s that if I was to sprain my back, if I was to injure the muscles in my back by overextending in one direction, this is not my expertise. No one take my advice on this one yet, as someone who used to do that, it was the discovery that if I kind of did the stretch slowly in the opposite direction to kind of work the area loose once again, rather than that tightness, which is trying to protect it, that was how it used to be. The back injuries that I don’t deal with anymore, but used to what used to take upwards of a full week to recover from, I could be back and fully functional same day.

So simply stretching in the other direction, is that lining up?

Yes. I like that. I mean, I’m going to use it now. I’m going to borrow that. I’m going to model that I described.

It in TikTok speed. So clearly this program is also for me. Okay, there happens to be an audience. What was it that brought you into this goal directed eye movement work in the first place? Because that’s not where you started, but how did you move into this direction?

Can I just start that? I first started as being a psychoanalyst. I was trained to be a young and psychoanalyst. I started that when you worked towards insight, but I found myself moving from that to behavioral and then into hypnotherapy. And why eye movement? It started about four or five years ago where this fascination that there must be a faster, quicker, effective way of dissolving issues that doesn’t require insights and doesn’t require time, basically. So when I begin to explore eye movements at the same time when I stumbled upon NLP, right, NLP and the eye accessing cues and I became fascinated with that. I mean, prior to that I’ve learned NLP but somehow the eye accessing cue came back to me. It’s like what is it about eye movements of looking upward or looking down that influence a person?

That became my passion to get trained at different eye movement from EMDR to brain spotting to IEMT. I learned it, I used it, and yet it didn’t have that effectiveness until I sort of stumbled upon multichannel eye movement and said, wow, this really sounds more in line with the ISS and cues. And when I used it and when I learned it, I found that first of all, I use it on myself and I found myself just reactivating my own anxiety that seems to be constantly being triggered and I said, okay, wow, it’s worked on me. Let me try to work with my clients. When I used it, my clients reported a tremendous relaxation, tremendous control and said I need to learn it officially and you know what? I found it.

When I use it with hypnosis, it became even more effective because by using the eye movements they go into a state of just the focus attention and into a state of trance we call it right so fast that the change work is so automatic. That’s how I sort of stumbled upon it by chance, I think.

And you mentioned doing it with the hypnosis, doing it with the change work. What does that tend to look like? Is it something that’s happening in, let’s say, the formal trance process? If that’s part of it’s something that’s happening as a before strategy and then leads into the hypnosis or creates it. What’s the map of where that fits in for you?

Moment? They’re this agreement that they want this change and they’re ready to work on an issue and I get them to focus on my pen and I move it. Guess what? By them just following the focusing and following the movement of the pen, they are already entering into that depth of hypnosis where they’re going to the trance and you can see that they are following it and you give even simple direction. And when I say my hand goes down to hit the self talk and say and you can have new perspective to your issues now. And when I just say that, you can just see themselves dropping to a different script or different perspective that they have. So it’s like an automatic progression from okay, I’m just falling into that. They immediately become very focused in the pen, for example.

And it’s like the resistance or all the environment around them just vanishes. It’s as if they’re now focusing with me, on me. And because I do MEMI, the trauma that they have is dissociated from them, it’s away from them. It’s like they just go in without the resistance, without the barriers that they normally have in talk therapy or when I do pure hypnosis, they just feel that. They don’t feel the depth. They just feel the mind is still chattering. But in this way the chatter mind just remains silent. They just open to the process. That’s what I found when I incorporate with hypnosis.

You just mentioned MEMI. Can you share a bit on that?

Okay, so MEMI is short for multi channel. Multi channel eye movement integration. So there are five eye movements. However, in the five eye movements there are four sets. And with each set we build in the complexity of the eye movements. It’s Go directors, we address the visual of the issue they’re having. Then we address in terms of the movements, the auditory, the self talk, the kinesthetic, the visceral. So what happens? The multichannel cost, it processes the whole gamut of the modalities of how someone processes information. The visual, the auditory, the kinesthetic. So it’s not just bilateral. Bilateral is more of EMDR, but it’s multi channel because we cover basically the eye assessing cue that NLP has presented to us. And we use that in the agon while they focus on the pen.

They have this understanding that and I’ll tell them that issue they have there’s an image. Yes, I have an image. That image that you have, just project it behind me. Just listen to the word. Project the image of your trauma behind me. The subtext is the issue is out of you. It’s behind me now. So we just created a distance between them and the trauma. And we know from trauma, for example, or when the Mendala gets triggered is when it gets so associated with the issue. The brain cannot distinguish real from imagine, real from past. So by having that dissociation, we are inviting the prefrontal cortex to stay present and the issue is behind me or is dissociated from them.

And when we do the eyes movement, we’re inviting the brain, inviting the individual or the self to begin to retrieve data that has been locked or lost because of the myopic processing of the issue, to begin to retrieve all the sensory data, which is out there, but it’s not accessed at the moment. So by using eye movements, the brain begins to retrieve it. And just a quick story again, and I love to share, because this happened just a month ago. This lady came to me, seen four therapists, and the last therapist told her, your issue is so complex. Your grief is so complex. Go fix your grief first, then see me for your trauma work. And she was kicked up from her room. Literally, they said, I can’t help you. So she came to me. Her issue is this. She has four children.

Two of her kids, two girls died, one when the child was one years old and the other at three and a half years old. At this moment, she has her husband and her two sons. So she came in, she was rambling that, I want to get better. But how about she can’t? No one can help her. And literally, what happened was that as a mother, she was holding on, that she can’t lose the memory of her kids. And so she had to hold on so dearly to a point she was grieving them that she forgot that her husband and two kids still exist. So when we work through Ive movement, so before it begins, she blame herself that she could have done more, she could have protected her kids. At the end of the eye movement, her statement was this and this.

I noticed this is quite common in MEMI, for sure, for multi channel. She said that, you know, I just come to a realization. I think I need to put a pause of what’s happening to my two daughters that pass on. I know they’re dead, and I know I miss them. I know they’ll always be with me. And the keyword was that I think I need to not spend time with my husband and my two boys who are alive because they need me now. And what happened was just that movement or eye. Woman she began to retrieve information that then the brain accepted that, yes, I know my daughters are dead, but I will still cherish them in my heart and the self power that, how about my surviving husband and my two kids?

So that was a major shift, and that was enough for her to recover from her somatic pains, recover from her depression, and even recover to a point. She was on the verge of divorcing her husband because she said, and she told her husband this, you better divorce me and take my two kids because I can’t live anymore. Just that one session was enough to transform her. Just like that. It’s because the brain retrieved all the data that was just there, but was not privy to access to because of the myopic thinking or the myopic processing of the limbic system, that this is traumatic and this is lasting and just. Get stuck in that perspective. So multichannel invites the brain to begin to sort of disengage from the experience. That is traumatic, but it’s over.

And to retrieve the point that in the present this is happening in the past, that is over. So that’s what happens when we do eye movement in a gold directed way. The prefrontal cortex just gets turned on again. And that’s what we do in Hypnosis, right? In Hypnosis that they go in, they make the changes and when sort of make the change, they realize that possibilities are just everywhere. Instead of just seeing that I can’t do this, I can’t do that, all of sudden A, that they see possibilities because we created or they created for themselves that there are many possibilities that can be tapped on if they allow themselves that possibility instead of just being locked I can’t do this.

I love that way of looking at it. Of again, the first story you told was that of here’s a moment where you did not quite need the entire story, you didn’t need all the details. And instead I’m going to use unfortunate language here, which is that it’s the task of kind of just short circuiting that pathway. I look at the sort of more conversational anecdotal definition of things like EFT, which is like, okay, so here’s the milkshake that’s clogged, here’s how we didn’t clear the pathway. I’m going to do this in a slightly different order, though than I normally do, which that this conversation is Work Smart Hypnosis Episode 428. So any of the links, any of the events or details that we point to, the audience could just head over to worksmarthypnosis.com four two eight and that will share the details because I got to ask it early. What can people do to begin to learn this?

Simple. I mean, you can read the book that has been written by Dr. Deninger, the creator of multi channel Imo integration, or you can even sign up for online training that Dr. Deninger do in US or the one that I do in Asia. And the beautiful part of this, Jason, it breaks away from all the need for Fluffy theories of fluffy whatever. It just goes across how to do the eye movements in a way that literally transform your client’s life without all the need to complicate it with theories and whatever. But we know the basics of the brain science and with that and how to do eye movements, you are ready for it.

When I do my training for even newbies who are just starting out, who have no experience after the two day training, they feel competent, they go out and they report almost automatically the tremendous change they see in the clients or even family members who’ve been traumatized or having an issue. They say, let’s do this. They report that the loved ones get better immediately. Can I share this too? My sons, they are adults. They come to me and because it’s content free. And that’s the best part. Multichannel is content free. They come to me and say, dad, I got this issue. Can you help me? Say, sure. And I’ll do the eye movements with them. It brings us closer.

And how many parents can say, my son sees me for therapy and the outcome is wonderful because they don’t have to tell me the story and they feel and they change on the spot. My second son last year was dumb by his girlfriend and he was so devastated, and he said, dad, I need to move on my life. Say, sure. Shall we do this? And all we took us was just 15 minutes. And he said, oh, I can move on now. I know I’m hurting, I’m sad, but I don’t need to mope about it. I can move on in my life. And that’s what he did. So learning it is easy and fun and you can run with it automatically.

And for those who want to attend a live training with me, next year, I’ll be in Las Vegas to do the training hosted by Richard Nongard. So that’s something to look out for in April, early April in Las Vegas. Interesting, right? Las Vegas.

Make sure you send me those links. That way we can put those again. It’s worksmarthypnosis.com. Four, two, eight. We’ll just point everything over there. That way people can track that down. Before we wrap this up, I want to ask something that you and I started this conversation before we hit record. And then I went, no, we need to get this on recording. Let’s do it right now. There’s a bit of a mixture I’ve seen of, let’s put it this way, that there are some who identify with the word trauma and are directly reaching out and looking for a solution because of the word trauma. And there’s others that are looking for, let’s say, the solution to more of the symptom, the emotion, the fear that’s popping up.

And it’s that back you mentioned, Richard Nongard, as he would say, well, life is a traumatic event. Everything is some kind of trauma, even the fact that I sat in traffic. Here’s an easy example. I had a doctor’s appointment this morning, and because of the schedule, I showed up 30 minutes early and I was okay waiting. I brought my laptop to finish writing something. And then they said, oh, we can see you right now. Which was nice because I got home sooner, but still it meant that the project was delayed. I was going to use that time. So may not be the most profound trauma, but in the category, it’s a kind of so I’m wondering on your side, it might be cultural, it might be the kind of clients you speak to. What’s your take on just the use of that word?

If that is something that people are seeking out a solution to that, or if that’s well, share your thoughts on that.

Okay. I mean, first of all, trauma is an overused word in my part of the world. Now, everyone says I have a trauma. Even little kids say I have a trauma. So the difference is this when someone says a trauma, ask them, how is that affecting you? And they say, oh, yeah, my chowers are horrible. And at the end of the day, I said, okay, whether it’s actual trauma or something that’s been challenging for you, is there something then you want to overcome or to get out? And always they say that, yes, can I be a better person, or can I not have this, or can I not have healthy anxiety? So whether it’s actual trauma or just the overuse of the word, I’ll just focus on the change that they want.

And once they have a change that they want, gain the agreement to change, and then we can do something. So once we do that, they begin to realize, hey, and this is a beautiful part. The cognition becomes clearer. They see things clearer, and they have better ideas of ways they can resolve something instead of, I’m stuck in this. I don’t know why I’m always repeating this pattern or this behavior over again at the end of it, oh, I can do this. Oh, this is not that bad after all. It’s all right. It’s all sudden. They realize it’s not as serious as they think it was before they saw me.

Well, that’s kind of the direction that I was going at, because I found that there’s not everybody but some. And I would also add in the statement that, throw into this conversation everything involving a diagnosis or a medication. And there’s some who would argue, oh, that’s over diagnosed. And I would argue that, well, maybe. But at the same time, something being under diagnosed is also just as big of a challenge, if not more serious. So there’s two sides of it always from different directions. It’s that were running into something with some of our clients on the business side of things.

That the use of the word trauma as the call out was calling out a crowd that was more likely wanting to, let’s say it politely, unconsciously hold on to that title as opposed to where you took it, which is putting it into motion. And I’m thinking back to I think it was 2015 or 2016. We had this running gag inside of a Hypnosis certification program where it turned into every time we opened up for questions, somebody, one person, Jennifer, would then swoop in and go, what do you do with someone with IBS? Okay, well, what about someone who smokes? What about someone with Add? And it became a running gag because my answer was always the same, which was what’s their goal?

Precisely, yes.

And the playful way I’d phrase it in a training would be that you could walk into a room and ask 100 people, how do you feel? And if all 100 people responded that they feel anxious, you’ve now realized two things. One, clearly you are in the wrong damn room. Get out. And two, if you tried to, then thank you. If you then tried to work with them based on just that word alone, you don’t have enough. It’s not until you ask like you did there, what do you want that to become? How do you want that to be different? What does that feel like? What would feel better? And it’s putting motion to something and taking it out of that stuck state. So love that.

Yes. So we need to convert it from a noun to a verb. Because every time we just love that label and we want to be stuck on it. But once we can transform it to a verb, what do you want to do different? What do you want to see happen? Then that is where the change happens, right? It’s change is not just a miracle, but how then you actively make changes internally and externally. I like this definition of trauma. Trauma is not what happens externally, but what happens in your brain, and how it affects your whole physiology or thinking. And when, you know, we know what’s happening internally, we can make the shifts, the changes. And it’s what multi channel is all about, making those shifts from the inside out rather than from just cognitively changing it.

It’s just from inside how it transforms you and how it rewires your limbic system.

Hey, it’s Jason Linett here once again, and as always, thank you so much for engaging with this episode, sharing it in your various conversations within our incredible hypnotic industry. You can find all the details and how to connect with Jochem over at worksmarthypnosis.com/428. That’s where you can find the links for the upcoming training event, as well as his own details there too. And while online, also check out worksmarthypnosislive.com. It’s all about activating that confidence, creativity and flexibility in your hypnotic work and truly supercharging the consistent results you get with your clients. Check it out and join now over at Work Smart Hypnosis Live.

Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart.