Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks, hypnotherapist and co-author of the children’s story book Sam the Sleepy Sheep joins me in today’s session. Although she has always had an interest in hypnosis, her passion really took hold while she was attending college, studying for her doctorate degree in education. This passion later leads to her working with patients in hospital wards before opening her own practice.

Kate has a unique outlook on the way hypnosis is taught in today’s society and some very interesting ideas on ways she feels professionals could improve the educational experience for students. Today, she shares her story, thoughts, and ideas on hypnotic education and integration as well as what she does throughout her own business in order to stay current in her practice, how she measures her own effectiveness with her clients and students, and how working in the hospital setting has impacted the way she works with clients today.

Please welcome Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks to the show!

“To stop learning about hypnosis, you’re actually going backwards.” – Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks


  • Learn what is it like working with hypnotherapy clients in a hospital setting and some of the challenges she has had to overcome in order to successfully help her patients.
  • She explains how this experience has benefited her current hypnotherapy business.
  • She remembers one of the first lessons she was taught early in her career was to ask her clients how they expect to go into hypnosis and how this technique has benefited her and her clients.
  • She talks about how much research she did about hypnosis while studying for her doctorate and why it took her 6 years to complete her research.
  • We discuss the improvements she believes needs to happen throughout the hypnotherapy educational industry.
  • She talks about a basic standard, a foundation, that students should be taught before personal stylistic techniques are introduced and why she believes this foundation is so important.
  • We talk about why some people decide to take hypnotherapy classes or courses even if they don’t intend to become a professional hypnotherapist, and how these skills can help them throughout other industries and professions.
  • She explains how her college research has impacted and affected her current business and how she works with clients.
  • She explains why she believes getting feedback is so important for your personal and business growth.
  • We discuss the importance of following-up and checking in with clients.
  • We talk about how the idea of writing the Sam the Sleepy Sheep book began

“Without a strong foundation, a student is simply learning hypnosis techniques by rote without actually learning how it was constructed.” – Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks

Resources Mentioned:

Reach Out to Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks:

Sam the Sleepy Sheep book by Rory Fulcher and Dr. Kate Beaven-Marks

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Podcast Episode Transcripts:

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Session number 78. Dr. Kate Bevin marks on hypnotic knowledge and integration. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, Your professional resource for hypnosis training and out. Standing Business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Hey, it’s Jason Lynette here and welcome back once again with an outstanding, fascinating discussion from across the world.

This time featuring Dr. Kate Bevin, Marks over from the UK discussing her background in formal education in terms of. Education, a journey into hypnosis, how it’s learned, how it’s integrated, as well as a fascinating exploration of how he or she is working, both as a trainer, also as a hypnotist, seeing clients in a formal hypnosis environment.

But perhaps the most fascinating is being in the experience on the floors of a hospital, actually doing the work on demand with various medical issues, whether it’s pain, whether it’s fears, and just this wonderful idea, this theme that I love of. We have to learn the formal process of hypnosis. We have to learn the structure before we can ever officially break the structure of the process.

Now take note throughout this recording, we’re gonna refer to another hypnotist as well by the name of Rory Fulcher. You can go back to session number 62 with Rory, as, Uh, Kate and Rory are training partners. And also coauthored, perhaps one of my favorite books in the last couple of years in hypnosis, a book featuring hypnosis, not necessarily about hypnosis, Sam the Sleepy Sheep.

It’s a book for parents and folks to read to their children, and through the structure of a wonderful story of a little sheep. Somehow wonderfully helping to encourage our little ones to fall asleep, though you’ll hear Kate tell the stories of, uh, teenagers as well as those people reading the books as well to, uh, be finding themselves naturally drifting into a wonderful na state of rest throughout the experience.

We also make reference to their trainings, which are available [email protected], and also references to my program Hypnotic Workers, which all of this is linked over in the show notes at Work Smart Hypnosis, either their program, you can check out, Just do a search for Sam, the Sleepy Sheep on Amazon.

Hypno tc.com or head over to hypnotic workers to check out my program as well. But let’s jump directly in this session. Number 78, Dr. Kate Bevin Marks on hypnotic knowledge and integration.
So, I mean, I just basically ask, is there in, in working with clients, I, I love the concept of people who are actually. Training hypnosis, but also doing it at the same time. I’d kind of be curious to hear, first of all, how do you spend the most of your time these days? What tends to be the thing that’s taking up most of your emphasis?

You know, it’s really funny. I’m not a great one for doing calendars. And it almost seems to be, I, I don’t really like to have it all there in black and white because then I realize how much work I do do. And it was only on Friday that I started making a note of working out what I do for which part of my hypnosis work.

And I’m pretty much split. I see clients during the week. I tutor during the week. I teach of weekend. It’s pretty much seven days a week. But I guess that’s because I enjoy it and I choose to, It’s, it’s a funny thing that as I interact with people, for me it was a turning point years ago of going, if I’m going to keep this balance of everything, my passion is that not every week is the same experience.

as I’m, I’m recording with you here on a Sunday and I’m wrapping up day three of a longer course. And, uh, the wonders of time zones as we’ve been chatting has been the game of when could we find a time that works with a five hour time difference yet it’s that it’s that fun of being able to back up and go, Well, this day I’m seeing a bunch of clients this day I’m doing a webinar this day I’m training.

And I think that really, I think you have the same mindset that it tends to keep it fresh for us as. Oh, totally, and, and actually I quite like the time difference because it’s really nice chatting to people in the States. Well, it’s a good time for them, and it’s the middle of the night for me because it just somehow makes it a bit more fun.

Yeah. So in terms of, even though I’ve gotta say this is a sensible time. Right, Right. . So in terms of that time seeing clients, I know that you’ve worked very often in environments that are a little bit different than what most people in hypnosis would do that actually working in a hospital environment, right?

Oh, absolutely. It’s, I was, I was really lucky. I’ll tell you more about my, most of my doctorate at some point, I’m sure, because that’s what led. To, to working in a teaching hospital in in London and it was the most huge honor to be invited to, to work in a teaching hospital doing hypnosis on the wards.

And the very first day that I went in it, I’ve gotta say it was quite scary because you are there expected to work just as any other member of staff works on the wards. and it was, it was a good test of what I could do, where I could do it. It, it’s, it’s one thing seeing a client in the comfort of a consulting room, seeing, you know, knowing that you can schedule them in for next week as well.

On the wards, you don’t have that. On the ward, sometimes you’d get maybe 20 minutes or 30 minutes with somebody just before they go into theater or they’re, they’ve got a scan in half an hour and they’re feeling claustrophobic. So it really does make you focus very, very clearly on short term term, but effective change.

Which, which I’m wondering more specifically how that has benefited. Your work, perhaps in a more formal, you’re here just for hypnosis environment that that’s curious that, that’s quite perceptive of you because it has actually changed how I work a lot of the time. Now I have clients that will travel a fair bit to get to me and I’ll see them once or twice.

Whereas before I would have scheduled them in, I was trained to. A three stage protocol of stabilization treatment and maintenance. And although I still in a way follow that, I’ve become more able to work and really honing on what people need. Mm-hmm. , not saying that I don’t sometimes see people several times, I often do, but I have that ability sometimes to work very quickly with them.

And that really has come from my work in the hospital. That’s an interesting theme because I mean, this class that’s been training this weekend was one where I had people who had come from other schools of thought and hypnosis, ones that would even go so far as to say, You know, do this really, really long induction so the client feel, they feels they’ve gotten their money’s worth, and as they’re learning how to hypnotize a person in a matter of minutes or even a matter of seconds, it’s this, I, I call it the come to the dark side moment of realizing, Oh, there’s more efficient mechanisms or, They, they saw this demo in my video library of a thing where I didn’t do this whole peaceful, safe place meditation and Well, why didn’t you do that?

Well, I didn’t see it was necessary, but this, this greater flexibility to get in there and get the work done and to realize when we often sand away elements that don’t have to be there and the process still stands or becomes stronger. I think that’s a real turning point for a lot of hypnotists. I totally agree with you.

I really do. And in the hospital as well because there’s so much going on. The rapid induction, the very quick induction seem to work better. If you did a 20 minute progressive, what you probably wouldn’t have 20 minutes without being disturbed. The other medics, let alone the floor sweeper, the mechanized floor sweeper, I can search the whole.

And he won’t be there. And the minute I start doing an induction patch just 10 feet away from me always happens. Well, pretty much always. But one of the things that I got taught very early on in my training that’s been really useful for me is to check, to ask with people how they expect to go into hypnosis.

And I do that quite early on because then I get to find out really whether they expect. A long, drawn out, relaxing process or whether they expect something quick and depending on the situation, I might go along with what they expect to build rapport, or I might early on have an opportunity to divert them onto a different path if we really just don’t have time for what they expect.

Mm. I mean, it’s the same as a client coming in who’s maybe done hypnosis with someone else and to find out they were successful with that other practitioner, we’d what? We’d be a fool to not ask the question, Well, what did you do to get into hypnosis last time? And model that experience as well. Yeah, it’s, it’s normally my super sneaky method for hypnotizing other hypnotists.

I just sit there and say, Well, tell me about the best hypnosis experience you’ve ever had. Nice. I don’t need to do anything then. Yeah. , we’ll just close your eyes and go through that on your own and nod when you’re there, , why not simplify it down? I wanna rewind it back. You mentioned you hinted at this, but let’s, let’s chat about it now.

What was that journey for you in terms of getting interested in hypnosis in the first place? Oh, it’s, it’s mostly cause I’ve used it a fair bit when I’m, I’ve been teaching many, many years ago. I was talking to a colleague at work. I was working. In all things in health and safety in a university. And I was speaking to somebody, I’d always had an interest in hypnosis and had started it informally, you know, the books and so forth.

And my colleague said that he could actually help, cause I was going through some dental stuff and finding it really painful. And he says, Oh, said I can do some work with you. And I was like, Mm, Yeah, You know, I’ve read about it, but I’m not sure. I believe. So I went and had a session with him and the very next day went off and had my, my implant, dental implant.

Came outta the surgery and thought the cheeky monkey, somebody’s ordered my watch. I got into my car and I thought my partner had ordered the clock in the car. Cause it’s like, no way has five hours passed. No way. It was like an hour. And it was early when I got home and saw Sky on the TV and realized that nobody can change Sky for time months.

But I actually realized that this hypnosis luck might actually work. So I got really curious, went back to see him, did some more work and he taught me how to hypnotize him and I totally got hooked. That very first time I hypnotized him was like, Oh wow. And actually I still get an Oh wow. When I hypnotize people.

Yeah. So I’m quite pleased about that. It’s nice to hold onto that fascination. I mean, my version was I, I got my start in all of this by way of stage hypnosis and it was my then girlfriend. Now wife’s comment of, you need to work on that part of your program where you look at the audience and have the expression on your face of holy blankets working

Yet, yet to still hold onto the fascination when we’ve got a person, perhaps in some bit of hypnotic phenomenon, or even as they’re back in sharing the results of what’s happened. And it’s to keep that, let’s call it as it is to keep that magic inside of the process, that another reality, another outcome is possible here.

Oh, totally. And it is that, I think it’s for a lot of people that I know that. Good hypnotists. They still have that passion. They still get that, Wow, it’s actually working. Look at that. Mm-hmm. . And that’s quite important to me. Otherwise it would just be a job. Right. Well, I mean, it’s that theme that it’s popped up on this program several times before, but you and I were both out at ngh, both out at Hypno Thoughts and the experience of looking around.

It’s always a nice nod when there’s other fellow speakers, other fellow trainers also sitting in workshops and learning from people. . Oh, ab, absolutely. I don’t think that you can ever stop learning about hypnosis. It’s just so vast. There are always new developments. There’s new perspectives on old staff, and I think to actually stop learning, you are going backwards.

So it’s great to go to conferences and sometimes sit there and have a discussion at the bar with somebody and they’ve got one view and you’ve got another view and to have a really, really good discussion because sometimes it changes your viewpoint. And your doctorate was in education, correct? Yeah, my doctorate was in education and I, I think I horrified my profess.

Because when I told him that I wanted to, to research hypnosis, teaching and learning, his jaw dropped . He was expecting something nice and safe and easy to research, and I laid out my project to him and he just went, That’s a lot of work. Mm-hmm. , mind, the work, it’s gonna be. And I spent about six years, I maxed out my time on the program.

I was literally right down to the wire for how long I could study on the program because I was having far too much fun doing my research. So right up until the end, it was a, it was a lot of work and I was actually working on it full time to get my write up done within the allowed time for it. So, I mean, briefly share what were some of the findings?

What were some of the directions that that research was going? Well, I, I initially started out by looking at how hypnosis is taught and how people learn hypnosis. And I looked at classrooms. I actually sat in on thousands of hours of classroom training. I looked at online training. , eLearning, audiobooks, videos, pretty much everything that I could find, book courses and looked at what people got from them, whether it would take somebody into what I was looking at, was a professional.

Mm-hmm. , because some of the material is very much aimed at those who want to study hypnosis as a hobby, which is fantastic. But this was really from what makes somebody a professional, a professional hypnotist, or a professional hypnotherapist. So I looked at lots of different courses to see how they were taught, what the teaching style was, how people learned within that environment.

And some of the, the key things that I brought out of it really was about standards and. It linked in then into the UK’s core curriculum, and my final part of my research was about the UK’s national standards, the hypnotherapy and the core curriculum, and really whether people knew about those standards and whether they thought that they were important.

So then what would you say, I mean, let’s go there then. What would you say are some of the improvements that need to happen in terms of how hypnosis is. How should we be thinking about it differently? I think it’s important for me that students understand what they’re getting into, and that’s like the very first thing that students know what’s required of them and when it’s required so that they don’t just join a course when they, they haven’t got time in their lives to really study.

And that’s, that’s an important thing. And then for them to understand what’s included in the way of breadth of the course. Because some courses are very focused around a particular style, and other courses are very broad. And unless students understand where that course fits within the field of hypnotherapy, it can be very confusing for them.

So in the UK we have a. voluntary core curriculum, and that’s really the minimum standards required for training. And it gives an overview of what you need in terms of theory and what you need in terms of practical, which is really good to have the split. And it also gives a minimum classroom hours. So at the moment it’s 120 hours classroom and 330 hours additional.

And that gives students something good to map against. Mm-hmm. and a lot of professional bodies, such as the ngh, do have minimum standards. And this can be really good for students so that they can understand when they’re selecting a course, what’s involved and how much they’re gonna get. Because speaking to, for example, the NGH certified instructors, everybody does it a bit differently.

Yes. And some people add in a lot on say, past life regression because that’s where their passion is. Other people really like analysis work. Other people are more into behavioral stuff, and that’s great for that trainer. But in a way, students might find that some areas aren’t being covered as thoroughly because there’s a big focus in one area.

Mm-hmm. . So I think it’s really good to have a, have a standard and then add to the standard with particular specialties. This is ringing a bell really, really well with the group that’s in front of me right now. For example, with this class that I’m training that. I, I did something years ago that I rebranded my training with the subtitle of Professional training and Certification, which is what it really is though.

It’s the discovery that not everybody is attending a hypnosis course with the goal of actually sitting down and being a hypnotist. So it’s this balance where, In various organizations, one group would say a hundred hours based on 75 live. Another group keeps changing their hours and increasing it more.

Some say more, some say less. Well, yes, on one side, number of hours does not necessarily equal quality. I can, I can name six day workshops. I went to that I left only patting myself on the back going, You’re doing a lot better than you thought you were. And I can name, I could name two hour conversations.

That changed everything that I do as a hypnotist though. Wow. It’s where. The, the idea of continuously adding more hours is we all have to start some. and we don’t yet know. I mean, I’d be open and say I was the smart ass stage hypnotist in the back of my hypnotherapy training going, I want a piece of paper so I can charge more for my shows.

I’m not gonna do this therapy crap. And now it’s practically all that I do and I teach. So we find ourselves in the same as you were there in a session and you had a fascination but didn’t quite know that you’d be at this point years later. . Oh, totally. No, I, I was quite happy in my, my earlier profession and had no plans particularly of, of changing something that up until that point was an interest into something that now consumes my whole week.

What was that earlier profession? Uh, health and safety. Okay. I, I’ve maintained my chartered status, so it just means that I get to do all the paperwork in my teaching company. Oh, isn’t that fun? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. , we won’t say who’s responsible for that. I can delegate. I can delegate to Rory the accounts.

Yeah, so that’s fair. Yeah. Yeah. . I love it though. But you are, you are right. You were saying that people come to training for different reasons, and that’s so true. Because not all of them come to learn to be a professional hypnotherapist. There’s also the ones that come because they’re, they’re really seeking therapy for themselves.

Mm-hmm. . And then there’s the hobbyist as well, who, who wants to come just because it’s interesting. And if you have a class with people that want to be a pro, that want to be a hobby therapist and that want to, to get their own therapy, it can make for a really interesting class dynamic. That’s one of those aspects that I think is my favorite, that on the first day to go around the room and find out why people are there, what their objectives are, and customize for that group that I, I, I, if I can claim a favorite.

I, I’ve got, in my area, I’ve got a lot of other hypnotists now working that have gone through my trainings and it’s kind of a nice little confidence nod and a nice little business hook when the. Biggest and best competition in the area is this local practice with multiple hypnotists, and they were all my past students though at the same time here in that same class where most of those individuals were, and that’s where they met.

Here’s this guy. He’s going through physical therapy training at a local college, and he’s hearing the instructors, the professors mention, Oh, you’re gonna teach people exercises, but they’re not going to do. And here he is. He’s on a student visa from somewhere over, I think from Saudi Arabia. And he is thinking, I’ve put so much time and energy into this education and I, it’s a letdown to hear the professor say, You’re gonna teach people exercises, but they’re not going to do them.

So by way of his research, he saw that hypnosis has been found to increase success of just compliance. It. It’s funny because it’s a class where language was a bit of a barrier in the early days, and I had one student in particular complaining that, Oh, he’s not getting it. He’s not understanding it, and I could comfortably be there and go.

I don’t think he’s ever gonna sit in a room with somebody and say, Close your eyes and help them quit smoking. , That’s not what he’s here for though. I loved his premise. They’re doing something repetitive in nature, and I’m speaking to them. There’s something hypnotic going on, so I might as well do it on purpose.

And I, and I love, I love that from the perspective of taking these techniques and applying them elsewhere. It’s how, you know many people would go through NLP training with the idea of applying it to their business, to their sales, to their speaking. Yet not many people would make that leap so overtly with a hypnosis training, but they can.

Oh, absolutely. And over the years I’ve taught quite a few medics, particularly doctors and nurses, and more recently physios and occupational therapists. And they don’t usually do formal eyes closed hypnosis, but by understanding how the language works, they can really influence the outcome with their patients.

Absolutely. So then how has the research, how has the study of education, how has that affected your work with clients? Hmm. That’s a good question. I know , I think what it’s, it’s done is it’s taken me out of any sort of rigid way of responding because I’ve learned so many different techniques. Got to understand what makes those techniques.

So breaking them down into fundamentals. And by being able to do that, it’s made me a lot more flexible in how I work with people. Mm-hmm. and I, I really appreciate the courses that I’ve done that have enabled me to do that because instead of having to use a technique with a client and expect them to adapt to the technique, I can really completely adapt it to suit them.

So I think it’s, if anything, it’s given me really good flexibility in how I work with, with an individual. What I love about that is that is not the answer that I expected, which is fantastic. No, because so much, I mean, over here in the states that so much about. Formalizing education where we’ve got major issues and I, I know this is a global one as well, but major issues of education and testing being aimed at passing an.

And the emphasis has fallen a little too much away from actually integrating the information and putting it into use. And I know it’s a lot of the study of education. My wife works for a nonprofit that’s all about when you see studies that are referencing the quality of teacher prep programs. This is one of the groups that’s actually monitoring and figuring out, well, what are the mechanisms that really prepare somebody to teach though as much as we’re a society of hitting these individual specifics and making sure these things are covered, and you just need to know that this happened in that year.

Well, why was that important? Well, it’s only on the exam for this purpose. No, it’s good to hear that, especially with the educational background, this idea of, again, what we just simply deem as client centered hypnosis. . Mm-hmm. . Oh, absolutely. And flexibility is so important. Whenever I teach, I’m aiming for the student to not just know, but to understand.

And I think that that takes their, their learning to another level. So you, you’re not just learning it. I hate people that just learn a script. Mm-hmm. . I want them to understand why those words were. What they’re aiming to do so they can adapt those words to suit the person in front of them. Absolutely.

Absolutely. That’s good to hear. And uh, what about in terms of measuring the success of it? Cuz I know the educational side where I’m sure dictate the, not just is the education presented, but also was it integrated? I know you’ve done some interesting work in terms of just following up with clients and seeing the results are actually in.

Abs. Absolutely. I’m, I’m quite, I’m quite confident in my work, but I also like to know whether it’s worked or not. So I really do like to follow up with clients and measure. The effectiveness of the work that I’ve done with them. And I certainly encourage all of my students and graduates to do that because it’s only by getting feedback that you really can reflect on your work and review it and adapt.

So then are there specific strategies that you’re using to, to measure that? Is it more informal? What? What’s your mechanism for doing. I’ve, I’m, I’m exploring a couple of different strategies. At the moment. I’m exploring a more formal measuring approach and without a standardized questionnaire, but I’m also exploring a more free, flowing, free form.

Tell me how it was for you. Tell me what, what you think was important and I’m, I’m looking at the two to see what I’m getting from each. So I’m keeping a very open mind at, at the moment on, on what I’m getting back to see where I’m getting the most information. What will be most useful for me? I think overall, I’d have to say a co.

From my experience, a combination of the two tends to be the most telling that unfortunately on one side we are a culture of people who at times will not actually reach. And give the feedback, give the intention. Unfortunately, unless we are completely blown away with the success of something and our satisfaction with a product or service, or unless we have been horribly wronged.

And unfortunately I’m flashing to a story and I’ve told this before and there’s an update on it of the plumber who came in and repaired our bathtub that was leaking. And man, he was great. Stayed out of our way, did it wonderfully. And then we just found out, left out one of the most critical parts of the tub and our ceiling was leaking again.

So it’s where I, I was discovering, it’s like, you know what? I left this glowing review on Yelp. Maybe I should go in and update that and. Of all things. I flash back to a client of mine who she’s a real estate agent, and she described just by way of small talk, her number one strategy to get referrals.

Which this is the least formal thing she could possibly do that here in the Northern Virginia, Washington DC area, we have a lot of traffic. And yes, you’re really not supposed to be on your phone, but if you’re sitting there going a blazing two miles an hour, at least put the headset and when you make the call, and she would refer to it as past client Russian Rul.

that she’d have all of her contacts in her phone, she’d scroll through randomly and stop. And as soon as she saw a name that was a past client, no. And I love this point. No matter her expectation, she’d hit dial and the phone would ring and they’d answer. And I love the advent of making sure the question begins positively.

I could flash back to when I was working in theater and I’d walk into a dressing room of actors, and the worst thing I could say is just making sure everything’s all right. And they respond, Oh, why? What’s going on ? So the magic of the question wanted to check in to see how well things are going. That that hedged off a lot of challenges and it’s where you’d hear that in most cases they were doing phenomenally well.

And just to simply drop that statement, now you’ve got the feedback, but then we could write it. Hey, do you know anyone else who’d benefit from the service? Always looking for new clients. Oh, you know, I was thinking about mentioning it to my sister. Hey, I’ll send you an email. You could forward it. and we’ve got that mechanism.

But at the same time, I do a formal survey at the end of my process and, and both are telling, but it’s where, you know, implementing as much as I make systems and a automation guy, it’s where I hesitate to say it. There’s so many things we could be doing, but we can’t be doing everything. But we definitely need that mechanism to follow.

I totally agree. I think that there’s sometimes some resistance, it seems to be particularly in the uk, that, that we shouldn’t follow up. That you are almost giving them the problem back and that’s really about how you approach them. Mm-hmm. , and yes, I love, you know, how well are you doing? Because if there’s a problem, they will come back to you.

They won’t need prompt. But it’s good to go back to them and really check in, and I think it actually just shows even more that you are a professional, that you care about them as an individual and just want to find out that they’re carrying on with what you’ve done with them and all as well. Although the point you just brought up is actually a good one.

There have been times when I’ve, I’ve used that strategy and they go, Well, you know, the smoking’s been great. I haven’t done it at all, and I maintain my health, but this thing is also going on, and it, it sometimes even becomes a moment where they simply can respond. I didn’t know hypnosis was effective for.

where suddenly it’s two, three years later and the one that I saw for weight loss several years ago is now coming in for some public speaking issues, is now coming in to let go of a fear. It’s a way of, you know, in a business mindset, we refer to them as touchpoints, reasonable points to reach out and connect with them once again, which somehow converts back to the, Oh yeah, that’s the company that does.

Well, as an awesome business person that you are, I’m gonna pinch that idea for my next training class. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Go for it. , . So I know it’s take, I’ll make sure you get the credit. Yeah, go for it. Go for it. It’s all out there. We, That’s why we keep doing it. So then what is it that’s drawing most of your focus these days?

Where are you spending most of your time? , it’s, it is really about teaching and developing, not just the practitioner level teaching that I’m doing, but also getting some, some master classes that are something a little bit different. Mm-hmm. some that gives people, because I, I’ve been to so many master classes and you just sit there for the day while somebody talks for seven hours or six hours or five hours, depending on how many breaks there are,

I really want to work on a series of master classes that are hitched at the right level, but are very, very practical and interactive so that people go out already having used it. Because what I’ve noticed is if people don’t use it straight away, they’ve develop a hesitancy and then they’ll revert back to what’s comfortable rather than learning their new approach or their new.

which is fascinating because in education, I know there’s so much now being talked about, is, is this the thing over in the uk, the advent of the reverse classroom? Mm. Although not really. The concept probably just has a different name where. I mean, I’m considering even, Here’s part of my class today, we’re recovering how to set up the office for success, how to communicate with the client, how to do the intake interview.

And then from that we launched into testing convincing. We did some other change strategies and peppered in a few more inductions. And it’s day where half of the content was lecture, and it’s a moment where those students don’t necessarily need to be in the room, although, . There’s a nice benefit that I’m having with this group that’s training now because my, my live students get access to my hypnotic workers program, which is my full hypnosis training library, and to go into next time we’re together, it’s a weekend format that I was able to tell them, go in and watch this session.

It’s a real client session that’s in the library. I know they’re gonna come in now to the next segment with better educated questions. because it’s the, Well, what made you use this technique there? What was the point of that? So yeah, to have the, the masterclass format where it’s about reviewing and let’s call it, refining the techniques rather than just the initial entry point.

Absolutely. And I’m, I’m really glad you mentioned about your hypnotic worker library because in a way, some of the things that I use in class, I like to make use of technology. Mm-hmm. and I will often sit there with students and we will watch a. And we’ll watch it all the way through and then we’ll discuss it and then we maybe break it down or have a look at it frame by frame.

And it’s a wonderful way of, of teaching students not just about that particular topic, but about how to analyze what they see. So, I mean, all of us do We watch something and we get drawn in and we enjoy watching what we’re watching, but we don’t necessarily learn best that. So by, by watching a clipping class, we can actually teach students how to watch from an education perspective and also how to actually unpack the process that, you know, it’s where I, I’d share briefly, there’s a story of.

I, I’d tell it as a moment where a student was being the ultimate, respectful individual possible, and I, at first couldn’t figure out why the hell it was bothering me so much, that after every demo, after every bit of lecture, you know, she’s, Oh, I’m so glad you found this hypnosis profession. You were made to do this.

You are so smooth at this and so skilled, and it’s a compliment and I can’t figure out why. Why is it offending me? Until I began to just track it and unpack it, and it came to the realization of she was putting the skills up on a pedestal that you can do that, but I never could, I can never be as good as you.

And there’s a, there’s a magician by the name of Mark Salem and he has a line at the end of his show of everything I’ve done today in the presentation could be explained by simple techniques. And they’re all quite simple. A five year old could perform the act that I have now. After 60 years professional training and experience.

And I, and I may have been butchering the paraphrase of that, but it’s where we all start somewhere. And I mean, even in the class today, I, I showed a clip of Ron Eslinger doing glove anesthesia. I showed the Tom Nicole Dateline NBC clip. And it’s getting that varied learning because they’re able to see other people doing things that are similar and reiterating the, as long as you understand the process, it doesn’t have to be the exact same words.

Totally. I totally, I’m really pleased that you do that cuz I do something similar. I tell students this isn’t about being a clone of me. Mm-hmm. , because I’ve got quite an individual and unique style. It’s about them being their own hypnotist or hypnotherapist. And by seeing different people do what they do best, they’re getting some really good instruction, but they’re also getting to see different style.

And that’s really quite important to help them develop in their own way. So then the question becomes, in the hospital environment, there are moments where you’re having to sand it down to the essentials to get the work done in an appropriately brief amount of time. So then here you are, maybe it’s the same week and you’re in a training environment, and it’s that aspect of.

We, we have to, as I would put it, we have to understand the laws of suggestion. We have to understand the format of the process. We have to understand the rules of the experience so we can then appropriately break them. Totally. Um, one of the things that I do spend a fair bit of time on with, with my beginner students is this understanding of the absolute foundations.

because if they have a really good nuts and bolts understanding of phenomena and suggestion and how direct and indirect suggestions are formulated and things like that, then everything else has somewhere to sit. But without a strong foundation, if they, they try to rush ahead, all they’ll ever do is learn it by rote without actually learning how it’s constructed.

and there’s a little too much of the repeating what we’ve been trained in. And, and I, I could share just honest moments of forgetting to do something in a session and getting the same result and realizing, Oh wait, this, this element isn’t as necessary as I thought it was. Ab Absolutely, and again, I think it comes down to everybody’s an individual.

All of our clients, all of our students have taken a different path to get to where they are when we work with them, whether we are teaching them, whether we are seeing them for therapy or even if we’re entertaining them, and we aren’t going to know all of their history. Mm-hmm. . So sometimes if you have to just go with the bare essentials, then you are hitting the key points.

Other stuff will be nice. , but sometimes you only have time for the bear essentials. I think it also introduces another theme that there are moments where, and my phrasing of this is that there’s moments where we are doing a. Technique by way of process. But we could also do the technique by way of theme that we could see the appropriate time if, if we’re the practitioner that makes use of the age regression to cause informed child, pace it forward, integrate, and all that mess set respectfully.

But there’s also moments where instead of doing the entire process, It could be delivered by a way of simple direct suggestion statement, as if today you had all the knowledge at an earlier age, and it’s as if you never took on this issue in the first place. And there’s moments where we have to go through, you know, maybe it’s the pound, the pillow style, forgiveness, but then sometimes we can simply suggest the theme and.

And that’s enough for that individual that sometimes doing the entire process is overkill. And perhaps as I would say, hypnotizing to believe the issue might have been bigger than it was in the first place. And, and that’s something we kind of learned by experience about what variations, what approach is where do we do a full parts therapy integration, or do we simply suggest it and move on to the next?

That’s a really good point. And I think one of the differences that I’ve noticed between the hospital environment and the therapy room is, is client or patient expectation. Mm-hmm. . And in the hospital environment, everything is, is quick, quick, quick, know. They’ll have moments with a nurse or a brief chat with the doctor and it’s, it is all very, very short bursts of time.

Quite intense. But short bursts of time. Whereas in the therapy room, I found generally that clients have expectations for the process. Mm-hmm. . So they will come in and they will expect, unless you tell the otherwise, then expect their hour or hour and a half with you and they’ll expect a fair chunk of hypnosis and they’ll expect the, the bells and whistles.

That they expect hypnosis to be about and a lot do, do their research. I’ve had some very, very well informed clients who will Google Hypnosis, and I even had one bring in three academic journal articles. Nice. Luckily I was familiar with them. , I, I, one of the things I specialize on is, is pain management. I, I’m fairly up to date with them luckily, but it was great because we were able to chat about those and how one was relevant for her and two weren’t.

But it is, its client expectations and that really comes back to not even just my advertising, but the profession’s advertising lo locally, nationally, even globally in a. . So then, uh, it’s already been a theme on this program before when Rory was on. So how did this end up with Sam, the Sleepy Sheep , which is an outstanding children’s book for parents to read to their children, which I’m telling you from the voice of Experience, it definitely works.

Oh, bless you. Thank you. We, we had a taste the day a couple of weekends ago, and a lady there was, was absolutely raving about it, but she was saying that she, she was struggling to, to stay awake herself. and I, I’ve had several reports now that teenagers find it quite nice to listen to going to sleep, which I.

Curious, but whatever works for them, I guess it’s better than heavy rock music, I guess. . So how did we get onto it? It was, it was one of those things we were coming away from hypno thoughts and we’d seen another hypnosis story book and it wasn’t neither of our cups of tea, I think. And we thought, well, we could do that.

So we did, and between us we wrote it. And the lovely thing about writing a, a story like that with somebody else is that you get to bounce ideas backwards and forwards and it, it quite organically flows into this, this end result. And then we had this amazing lady do the artwork and it just all came together.

Yeah, the artwork is outstanding. Yeah, I, I love that artwork. I, I almost want to have it made into pictures for my house because some of them, especially the, the magician sort of spell room, I love that I keep looking a bit and seeing new detail, which for those who might be a little confused as to what we’re talking about, again, say I’m the sleepy sheep.

It’s a children’s book. Apparently a teenager’s book as well as an adult book as well that, and I love the, the aspect of the opening segment of the book is about training the person how to read the book, which becomes this beautiful little crash course and embedded commands, pausing and putting emphasis on language and just putting more power behind our words.

And then here comes the story that works. Excellently works perfectly as a story. by leaning into some of the pauses, by leaning into the command forums, by leaning into the language, has this nice little side effect to it. It’s, it’s interesting that you, and there’ll be a links to the book in the show notes as well, Of course, too.

Oh. House weight. Oh yeah, . It’s interesting that we’ve had quite a lot of positive comments on that. I’ve had a couple of people contact me and sort say, Well, you know, I’m a bit nervous about this. Can, can you tell me how to do it? Does this sound okay? And so it’s been, they’ve been quite interesting phone calls and people seem to have really got me into.

This, this style. And I know that some people have already started to look at other children’s stories and see whether, whether they can use the same sort of style with their, their regular, everyday children’s stories. That’s quite interesting. Hmm. I love that. I love that. So, so what’s on the horizon?

What’s next? What are you, what are you passionate about moving into these? Well, Rory’s nagging me to finish two books. , he’s, he’s doing his best at nagging me, although he’s not much of a na. So I have actually, I guess it works cause I mentioned about scheduling stuff into my calendar and I have actually scheduled it into my calendar now.

So I guess the making is working. Mm-hmm. , . So I put a couple of books, one on, on rapid technique, which is something I’m very passionate about these, these sort of quick. Techniques, and the other one is about hypnosis in hospital, because I’ve had so many queries from medics and other hypno therapists about all of the techniques and the protocols that I’ve developed, that instead of just sending those out in drips and drs, it seemed just easier to put it all into one book and let people access it That.

Yeah, and I, I’m flashing to of all books, the Frank Farley book, Provocative Therapy, just to have it . Not that it’s perhaps the same themes, but I’d love for it to be, cause that’s a whole lot of fun. But the, just the aspect of here’s another story, here’s another experience. Here’s a case study where this is what I was presented with and this is what worked in that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I You joined the nagging on that one , I, I tend to use appropriately anonymized case studies. Yes. When within my writing, because I think it’s interesting. It’s, it’s great. And I’ve read hundreds of textbooks. I have well over a thousand hypnosis books that I, I gathered as part of my, my research, and it is all very well reading about these techniques and approaches, but it’s true.

It’s the stories that sell it to me. Having case studies really does make a difference. And really puts into the perspective of how the technique actually fits, how the technique actually works. Or even as we hinted at before, when to break the structure in order to establish a better one instead. Oh, absolutely, Yes.

Yeah. Knowing how how it’s made up makes a huge difference. Absolutely. So where can people find you online to learn more? I’ll link over to Sam Sleepy Sheep to pick that up online, but where else can they find out more about you? Best place to. Is hy otc.com, so that’s www H Y P otc.com. Excellent. And I’ll put links to that over in the show notes as well.

Kate, it’s been great having you on here. Ah, it’s been really fun talking with you. I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you. Awesome. And see you. Thanks, a thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com. Jason, let out here once again, Ed, I’d encourage you, as always to share your appreciation of this program.

You know, the convention season just wrapped up officially over here in the States, uh, about a month or so ago, attending both the GH Convention as well as hypno thoughts live, and I’ve gotta tell you, Thrill never ends for me to be there and whether I’m at my table talking about my programs and products, whether I’m in the hallway or in one specific instance, standing there in the bathroom and having someone I don’t know, walk up to me and say, Thank you so much.

You’ve made me a better hypnotist. Let me wash my hands first, and at least you wash your nothing in that one. So again, the the feedback I love though the feedback helps us even better when you share it publicly. So, do me a favor, take some action steps on this. First of all, head over to work smart hypnosis.com/.

iTunes and leave your review of the program there online. Share this program on Facebook, like the page, just go to facebook.com/work. Smart hypnosis. Interact with the content over there. Oftentimes we’re bringing programs outta the vaults to share some classics of this program as well now. And, uh, be sure to also, Some of the programs that I’ve got out there, especially hypnotic workers, it’s all about changing how we learn hypnosis and also how we integrate the information twists and turns on classical strategies, change tactics that you will not find anywhere else, as well as for the first time in a lot of locations, real client sessions that have been with permission filmed and shared.

To benefit your hypnosis training. Everything streams online in high definition yet. You can also download the content, download the videos, download the audios, and most of the content has been transcribed as well. Read it. Watch it, Listen to it. It’s all about making the training of hypnosis a whole lot easier.

Check that out, hypnotic workers.com. See you next time.