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Imagine building a more successful hypnosis business just in the next 10 days. To learn how, please visit work smart hypnosis.com and take the 10 day Hypnosis Business challenge. Yours free today. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success.
Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Happy Thanksgiving. It’s the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast. Session number 26, A conversation with Jess Marion that before I actually jump into the official program here, I wanna take this quick moment. Well, to be thankful it is November, it’s 2014. This session is officially dropping on Thanksgiving Day 2014, and my thank you personally goes out to everybody who’s had something to do with this program so far now, not just to the people that have appeared on this program such as.
Folks like Jess Marion today, but also specifically going out to just all the people who have listened to it, who have subscribed to it, and perhaps even better gone on iTunes and left some positive feedback for the program. You know, that’s what really helps this program to grow with. That footing in place.
It’s so much easier to get great interviews like the one you’re gonna listen to today. So I asked that as a quick favor. Just take a few moments, head over to iTunes, locate this podcast, and just leave your feedback there on iTunes. That’s probably the number one thing you do to really help this program out.
I wanna jump into the content here today with Jess Marion. Now, I just first met her, uh, recently at the Hypno Thoughts live convention out in Las Vegas. Though I’ve been directly though perhaps indirectly aware of her work for quite some time now, thanks to some of the books that she’s been publishing in recent months.
So I wanna jump into the program though. I will re. Head over to work smart hypnosis.com On that page with the show notes for this session, you’ll see various links to both her website, her training website, as well as upcoming training opportunities that are outside of her, uh, New York and Philadelphia area.
And in addition to that, I will put direct links specifically to the books on Amazon as well. Highly recommend these books. They are fantastic. Here we go. Session number 26 with Jess Marion.
Uh, they’re going quite well. We’re actually, we’re in the middle of a big launch period of, as you know, we’ve just launched two books in the last month and we have another book about to launch in a different niche later this month, followed by another one after that in, uh, December. So it’s very, very busy time of the year.
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. What, what are the new books coming out? Uh, the new, the next book that’s coming out is a book for smokers to learn how to quit using, uh, hypnosis through text and different hypnotic techniques for themselves. Oh, okay. So, so basically, would you say it’s kinda like taking the quit book and revisiting it, so it’s for the actual smoker to read it and to make use.
Yes. It’s very, it’s very similar to that. It’s a lot shorter than a quit book because it’s more experiential and it’s, it’s been very interesting because it’s essentially taking how we work with clients face to face and, uh, putting it in text, which provides its own challenges because you, there’s no feedback coming back.
So it’s kind of like, Okay, how can I take these exercises Yeah. And adapt them so that a reader I’ve never met understands it and can go use it themselves. Yeah. Fascinating. No, I, I’ve been looking at, uh, what is it? There’s a newer, uh, Andrea’s book that’s all about negative self talk, which that information is elsewhere.
There’s, uh, Melissa’s, uh, anti-anxiety toolkit written from the same perspective. Know, being in New York, people think, Oh, there’s lots and lots of people who wanna come to trainings. But the truth is, I mean, getting a local population to come into course after course, after course provides its own challenges.
So about a year and a half ago, we’re like, Okay, you know what? We need to branch out. And that’s something got really heavy into the Ryan Dice stuff and. Working with sales funnels online and transitioning our business from being primarily a brick and mortar business into something that a lot more people can have access to via the web.
Absolutely. I mean, you look at the, There’s a quote that actually comes from the field of magicians, which was that the. The amateur keeps changing his show to sit the audience and the professional keeps changing his audience with the same show. absolutely that instead of that branching out, I mean, that’s, that’s the story behind this podcast.
I, I run a local meetup group, which I absolutely love, and I, I keep it up. And then there was one day where I kind of looked out and. Oh, it’s the same people every month. . Let, let’s widen the scope. Let’s expand the audience and bring this thing further on out there. Uh, you and I have only really chatted a couple of times.
Uh, kind kind of share your backstory about how you got into all this. Well, for anybody who is being fly on the wall and listening, I actually had the pleasure of meeting Jason, uh, two years in a row, the Hypno Thoughts Conference at Las Vegas, which is a fabulous event. Um, and my background is I’m a hypnotist and hypnosis trainer and NLP trainer.
Uh, I got started in all of this actually back when I was at university during my undergrad back in 2001. As luck would have it, my giant library at the University of South Florida. I see an immense section of works from baler and Ericsson and dt. Whatever I wanted to study, break, I’d go grab myself some Starbucks and totally even nerd out with like these, these classic LP and hypnosis books.
And then from there I studied for a long time, but I didn’t really do anything with it. At the time. I was, I had gotten my master’s degree and was working on my PhD in anthropology and decided to do some training. And then two weeks after I did my, after I graduated from my hypnosis training, I went ahead and opened a practice that was 2010.
So that I’ve, I’ve been seeing clients, uh, in New York and Philadelphia since that time. And as I mentioned, I, I eventually went on to become NLP Master practitioner, an NLP trainer, a brain based leadership trainer. Uh, and the list goes on and on all the way down to published officer. And that’s specifically why I want to chat with you today, the, the NLP Mastery Series, as well as some of the other books that have been coming out as well.
Um, I, I’ve read through so far, I’m halfway through deep trans identification. I’ve read through Swish, and what I like about them is just the ability to take the information and I, I, you used a phrase that I love too. I’m, I’m the one that when I see. Here’s a class that they’re gonna be doing three days of variations on parts therapy.
And I go, Oh, cool. So when it’s all of a sudden, here’s an entire book just on one specific technique. Yeah. One specific pattern. I love that stuff. Um, what, uh, kind of, kind of walk me through the, the journey of deciding to venture into the part of writing and just sharing that information and just really workshopping the inform.
Sure. So we um, me and my two lovely, absolutely awesome partners and pet friends, Sarah Carson and Sean Carson. Um, we had been doing, uh, hypnosis trainings together since 2012, and it was probably 12 of 2012, um, clients where we thought, You know what? Let’s publish a book. Let’s do it. Mm-hmm. . So then we had to decide, okay, well what did we wanna publish?
And we had this idea for the NLP Master series because one of the problems that we’ve notice is when we teach an NLP prac, the prac, depending on who’s teaching it, we teach it in 12 days. Some people teach it in 18 days, uh, but even within that time period because there’s so much material in it, You know, the focus is kind of divided.
Do you have the, the practice focused specifically on developing coaching skills? Then you may also have, What we do is we focus on the coaching skills, but we also bring in a lot of the business applications. Intuitive. Yes. Especially except, uh, Sean Carson has over 20 years in international business experience, so it’s kind of his brain child, so it’s fitting.
Those two aspects in and still teaching the skills in a way that the students walk away and they have a skill base, whether they want to use it for business. Unfortunately, some of the patterns we could take a weekend or we could take a week. You could take a month and study just to devote yourself to one of these patterns and begin to get experience with it and understand it and must pr.
Cases, Maybe you have a couple hours, maybe sometimes a day. That’s a very, that’s a, that’s a real rarity in terms of the field for our students. It’s really, Okay, here are the steps. This is why we use it. Go out and do it, and experience how it’s gonna transform your life now. Yes, that challenge, that once students are starting to understand the basic principles, then you’re already moving onto something else.
Exactly. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s, it’s the, it’s the flow of the course and it’s the time constraints because in New York, and I’m sure elsewhere, nobody’s going to commit to a six month NLP practitioner course every weekend. , . Um, and I found in, in my own experience that it wasn’t until I was out using the stuff with clients over and over and over again.
I really started to understand it and I, I know my partners had the same experience of now we’d either teach something or learn something, and that week for all our clients found ourselves unconsciously doing it anyway. So it was, how can we take everything that we learned, all the applications, all the variations that we do of these patterns and offer to people who are interested.
So we thought, you know, NLP Mastery Series made sense, made sense to us, and that we got to follow our passion and really dive deeply and develop new things. Uh, in the SW and the squash, uh, there are versions of this pattern that you won’t find elsewhere. They came out of our own experiment. So for us it was very much so a selfish endeavor in terms of our own skills development,
Um, and then it made sense on the business side because the NLP books that are out there, any of the basic NLP books, Really a, a, an overview of the different patterns, like a hundred NLP patterns or the big book of nlp. There wasn’t anything, even in the stuff from the Andreas Andreas’s or Dale. There weren’t, there wasn’t anything out there that really took the classic patterns and broke it down, pulled it apart so that whether someone was just starting their crack or someone has been in the field.
Years, decades, everybody could get something new from the book. So the Swish came out of it. The Swish is one of Sean’s absolute favorite patterns. Mm-hmm. . Um, so he really spearheaded that book and I was the co-author on it, kind of adding things in, kind of the stuff that I had been doing with the Swish.
That’s really where it started for us, was in that book. We had started writing that. Actually in January of 2013, even though it didn’t launched until last December. Yes. But mainly because we launched quit first. We had the transcripts from the seminar. So put that out there before we finished the first for the NLP Mastery.
Excellent. So then published author. Now the tradings are growing. I know you’ve got the class coming up. The one in Orlando is January, right? Yes, yes. Uh, the end of January. Excellent. And that’s the five day, uh, conversational hypnosis class. Yeah. See the six day conversational hypnosis, uh, conversational h therapy course.
We’re actually, we’re not running it. We’re being hosted by, uh, the Hypnosis Training Academy. That’s eager Alkis group. They’ve asked us to come in and teach their students. Perfect. Perfect. So let me ask you this, Kind of walk us through just a little bit of your own personal style. Uh, client comes into your office and I know the constraints of a brief conversation here.
It’s a massive question. What’s, what’s kind of the energy you want to bring to the sessions that you do with your clients? You’re working with someone one on one, first and foremost, and I, I think if I could give one piece of advice to any hypnotist or coach out there, is to have fun with your. This is good for you.
It keeps you San Oh, yes. . And other aspects of this is , is that if your client is laughing and smiling, that means their brain is producing dopamine. Yeah. Uh, dopamine is a neurotransmitter that’s necessary for new learning to be encoded. So they have to have dopamine flow in order to learn whatever, whatever new internal skill sets you’ll be teaching them throughout the process.
This is true whether you’re doing deep tracks or you’re doing more uptime coaching, um, laughing, smiling, and novelty. Are the easiest ways of inducing a dopamine release. So it makes the change super easy. So first and foremost, I wanna have fun with them and kind of shake up their view that their problem is serious.
Well, it’s that phrase that the more serious we let the process become. My, my thought is the more we’re stacking the deck and convincing each other, it’s gonna be difficult. , Absolutely. Because the client comes in and their, they bring in their problem, like it’s a concrete box. It is their thing. It is static.
There is no life in it. There’s no motion. No motion. Not emo. Um, it’s just their thing. Sometimes we’ll even show you with their spa, their s spatial landscape in front of ’em. They’ll show you the size, the shape, and the location of their problem. We need to get that problem moving again. The more serious we take it.
Oh no, you’re right. That is the most horrible thing that ever happened. Mm-hmm. . Um, the more this confirms what they’ve already been doing in their head from day one, this doesn’t mean don’t be empathetic, you know, it’s, we do get clients who have had major traumatic events in life and that doesn’t mean like, kind of blow it off, like, Oh, it’s no big deal.
Get over it. The New York approach to therapy, , No, but it’s about our internal representation. The issue they have, it’s understanding that any problem that a client has made in their lives or any problem that a client has accepted from someone else in their life can be undone because at the end of the day, they’re doing something to create it and keep it going.
So for me, this is really at the, for. Yeah. The other thing is, is state control for the coach, for the hypnotist is essential. Yes. Um, the client will pick up on your state throughout this session. So our, the way we work is, uh, we go into a state called expanded awareness. Uh, this is a way of, um, using the eyes, particularly to both activate foal and peripheral vision when we’re looking at a client, which means we can see a lot of the unconscious movement.
Our conscious minds aren’t geared to pick up things like changes in color, changes in breathing, unconscious switches in the hands. For me, it starts really with my state, how I’m using my physiology, keeping the unshakeable positive regard for the client. In my mind, for a client comes in, I have a representation in my head of them being completely transformed, and this is for a couple reasons.
First, it, it keeps my unc. Comparing where the client is at during the session to the image I have in my head, is their physiology moving more toward the resolution of the problem or are they moving away? So I’m constantly unconsciously gauging where they’re at in adjusting to move them along in their process of change.
The other. Aspect of this is, um, we talk about this a little bit in the DTI book, is that clients DTI with their coaches and they do it unconsciously. Most coaches don’t realize that a client is doing this when a client comes in and sits down. Let’s face it, hypnotist is usually not the first person.
They’ve tried to come solve this problem with, we’re usually the lowest on the totem pole , unless they’re hit the face, they’re, what’s the phrase? Rock bottom, No place to go but up. not the most fair sense. Absolutely. But there’s that nice benefit of when they come in, they’ve already decided this is that last resort.
Like, okay, good. They’ve already decided this is the last thing they’re gonna do. Exactly. Exactly. And we know that. They decide that this is it, but they think, Oh, well if this doesn’t work, then I’m do. Yeah. And if, if we fall into that trance of believing that, like, what if this doesn’t work? The client’s gonna pick up on that unconsciously, uh, because they’re going to be seeing the unconscious signals that we are showing that show this internal representation we have of them either succeeding or failing.
Their mirror neurons are gonna kick off and their physiology is going to begin to match our, this is a result. This is a result of. People think matching and mirroring is how you get rapport. Matching and mirroring is the unconscious result of rapport. Absolutely. So we need to be aware of our own internal representations because the client will unconsciously step into our shoes and see.
Themselves, the way that we see them. So this is for me, the foundation of working with any client. Now, once the client is in the session, what’s crucial for me is the one key question, Do I have enough information to do this problem myself? Mm-hmm. , if I don’t. We’re not ready to actually do the piece of change work.
I have to keep asking questions. I, I know our, I’ve unfortunately in our field, seen a lot of people kind of gloss over this and kind of like, Okay, what do you wanna work on? Oh, okay, you have anxiety, let’s do some ete and let’s feel good end of the day. Mm-hmm. for the lineage that we sit in, myself and Sean and Sarah.
The problem with this is, is it doesn’t neurologically attach the resource to the problem, so we need to make the problem alive enough in the neurology. We need to activate that neural network enough so that when we activate the resource, we start connecting together to completely different neural networks, which means they can’t do the problem the same way.
The way we go about doing this is dependent on their strategy for creating the problem. So we spend a lot of time doing, sometimes overt, but usually covert strategy elicitation. I need to know before I ever jump into a pre-talk about Ted, that if I were this client and I did all of these steps in my head, I would have this same negative kinesthetic feeling at the end of the day.
Well, I share the experience of, uh, gentleman took my class. He was an lcsw. That the experience and, and I quote him on this and it’s interesting cuz you’re pointing at something, which is that next layer, That next layer he was talking about. What he was finding as the benefit from learning hypnosis, learning NLP was that it was no longer com compartmentalizing things as a specific diagnosis.
He described what most of what his original training. was, now that we have a diagnosis, now that we have a title, here’s the treatment plan for that title. Yes. And his response was by going through hypnosis, by going through NLP training, he was able to look at, He goes, I could see a hundred people with the same issue.
And they’re all different now as opposed to, here’s the title, follow this plan. Yet still, even as we’re doing that, there’s that extra layer that we all can go into in terms of understanding. How it is that person goes home and how it is they feel, what they feel they experience, what they experience, and how they create that map within their mind, which as soon as we have that map, we can help them break out of it as well.
Absolutely. And you know, this, this, this type of work, this is really came outta thanks to the work of people like Ericsson and primarily bler the chunking down to the smallest moving parts. At the end of the day, a diagnosis is a nominal. It doesn’t really tell us anything, but it keeps a problem in place.
All of a sudden it’s not, I’m feeling anxiety, it’s. I have this real thing called anxiety. That must mean that I should generalize this out and feel this anytime I, anytime I experience the trigger, which doesn’t serve the client. Sure. If, if you, if somebody wanted to go that route, they’d probably have some success.
I mean, there’s, there’s always statistical averages. Oh, absolutely. For me, I find incredibly boring. Um, and I don’t like, at the end of the day, not seeing clients succeed. Yes. And I wanna know how they’re doing it. I wanna know every step of the way what they’re doing. The, the best example of this is a fear of flying client.
To have a fear of flying, you have to run a very similar strategy. It begins, of course, with something in an external world, either seeing a plane arriving at the airport, or seeing the confirmation in the email box. Then if you slow the process down between that and feeling bad, there’s typically a series of terrible images.
Seeing themselves on a plane, in a plane doing some horrible thing, either seeing through their own eyes or seeing that playing from the. Then they’re gonna run some dialogue saying not again. Then they’re gonna run some dialogue and run a meta commentary to that about what if I lose control on this flight?
And then they’re gonna feel bad and then run even more commentary about losing control. And then there may be some more pictures thrown in their fun cast experiences. It’s a pretty simple strategy. At the end of the day, if we drop them in the trance and. You’re not afraid of flying. You’re not afraid of flying.
You’re not afraid of flying. Sure that that definitely could work for some people. And I do direct suggestion towards the end of of a session. Most sessions, however, if we don’t change the pictures, if we don’t teach the client how to use their working memory, we’re shrinking down the possibility and the probability of us having success with.
And for anybody out there who’s working with fear of flying clients, a really simple tip is to recognize that people who have a fear of flying are not afraid of flying. Nobody is afraid of sailing comfortably through . They’re either afraid of crashing or they’re afraid of being in confined spaces. So keep that in mind for your reframes.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So Jess, where can people find you online? Uh, they can find us at nlp. Uh, NLP Train New York are actually best. nlp.com is the best. That’s B E S B E S T, New York, NLP new york.com. Perfect, And I’ll put links to that in the resources here for this session. Jeff. Thanks So. Thank you so much.
Thanks so much for this opportunity, and thanks to all listeners for tuning in. It was a great time, and I look forward to seeing you again this year at Hyman Soft Live. I’ll see you soon. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com. Please visit the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, listing on iTunes and share your positive feedback.