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Imagine building a more successful hypnosis business just in the next 10 days. To learn how, please visit work smart hypnosis.com and take the 10 day Hypnosis Business challenge. Yours free today. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success.
Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Buckle up. We’re about to go deep. . Okay, let’s jump into the program. Welcome back. This is session number seven, an interview with Anez Simpson. Jason Lynette here works smart hypnosis.com. I’m really excited to share this interview with Anez Simpson. She’s gotta be one of my favorite people in hypnosis.
There’s something that’s interesting that occurring in hypnosis where, you know, many of us were trained in specific protocols. Many of us have come out of certain programs in terms of educat. and there’s this theme that’s often within hypnosis where there are many people out there, and I’ve been guilty of this too.
There are many people out there just simply repeating the words that came from the trainers that they went through. So a great example of this, uh, previously in another episode, Sean Michael Andrews, uh, doing the research around body temperature and hypnosis, and specifically back to previous episodes as well, Michael Elner.
Learning classic models of hypnotic pain relief, and then looking around and finding better models, better experiences to make use of. And specifically in this interview with an S Simpson, you’re gonna hear the characteristics of looking at something like the Dale State, what’s been commonly nicknamed the Coma State, where most of us are told that if the client goes there, they’re unresponsive.
They’re in a euphoric state and they’re not responsive to suggestion. And some would even go so far as to say that it’s not even a form of hypnosis. And what I love about Aez was the intention to go, well, maybe not , and to do her own research, to do her own shopping of the process. And what stands now is the Simpson Protocol, which is just absolutely fabulous.
It’s a great model of hypnosis. You’re gonna hear more detail about that in the interview. I wanna share a quick business tip that actually does relate back to this interview. If you are ever promoting a single product, if you’re promoting a specific class, if I’ll simplify it, If you ever are promoting a website that has way too many letters, and I’ll explain what I mean by this.
When I was hosting an S Simpson for the second time here in Alexandria, a couple of months ago, Had the website of Virginia hypnosis.com/simpson protocol, 2014 dot html, and there were a whole bunch of hyphens in there that I didn’t even bother pronouncing. That’s a pretty hard thing to, uh, to promote. So instead, and I forget if this concept is original to me, I’m sure it isn’t.
Um, but the name perhaps might be like, we hear a vanity license plates. I call these van. URLs. So for example, I host a Northern Virginia Hypnosis Meetup group, and that’s on meetup.com/northern Virginia Hypnosis me and all these extra letters. But instead, northern Virginia hypnosis.com points directly to that site.
Uh, the 10 Day Hypnosis Business Challenge, that’s a part of Work Smart Hypnosis for a recent convention I typed in, uh, 10 day hypno biz.com, and that’s the shortcut. So back to a Simpson. Working interactively within deep states of hypnosis. Sure enough, Deep simpson.com was available. So again, really simple to do.
You can actually, just, the way that I do it is I purchase the domain on Go Daddy, and then actually in the settings on Goad, I just process the redirect. It’s probably the fastest way to do it. So again, here comes that interview with an ES Simpson working interactively within the Dale State, the Simpson.
Well, I’m going to do a Simpson Protocol in Germany, and then the convention in Zurich, and then going to Dubai and hang out with Barrel and do some stuff there. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Great, Great. Well, we’re here today with Anez Simpson Anez. Uh, You’re still Vancouver Island, correct? Not exactly. Vancouver, right?
Well, it’s Vancouver Island right now, sort of in transition between Vancouver and Vancouver Island. I do a little bit of work on both right now. Excellent, excellent. And for those of you that don’t know Aez, she’s a board certified hypnotist with the ngh, and, uh, she owns and operates Advanced Hypnosis Training Institute out there in British Columbia.
And more specifically, what you’ve kind of become well known for, in addition to also being an omni trainer with Jerry K. Is the Simpson Protocol, and it’s something that I’ve actually hosted the training for that here in Virginia twice now with, uh, with wonderful feedback both times, but specifically a protocol that I’ve put into place and many others have put into place.
And for those that aren’t too familiar with it, would you mind giving us like a quick thumbnail sketch of what that protocol entail? Well, the thing about the protocol is that you don’t need to know much about the client. You, you know, you get the usual small input of a story and everything, but, uh, it’s about working with their higher mind and their mind is all the work for you.
Um, so it sounds. , when you’re looking at it, it’s in a very simple procedure, but it’s also very intricate. It has to be done in the right order to initially start because you’re getting people into a deeper level of hypnosis. You wanna get them as close to as Dale as you want, because as Dale turns into a very great launching pad to go into other doorways of, of mind, state of mind.
Um, just lately I did an experiment with a, a doctor who wanted to. And he hooked himself up to an eeg. And when I took him into the different levels of hypnosis, he had the intention thinking that his heartbeat would, everything would go really calm and sedate. What really happened was, in each level, the heart was acting differently.
So it’ll be interesting Oh, wow. To do some more work on that. But, uh, so. You have to follow procedure to go into Dale or as close to Dale as you can, and then walk through those other doorways where you can access the power of the mine, um, very easily. Uh, So, and, and the feedback that I’d share is, um, putting, putting that into work here at the office is that, you know, by comparison to techniques such as age regression to cause with informed child work or um, even the different variations that are out there of parts therapy.
Yeah. Where it’s a process that involves interaction with the client, getting them to verbalize whether it’s the insights, whether it’s the cause, whether it’s the specific events. Simpson Protocol is done. You get to Dale, you go deeper from there, you go beyond, and everything is being done by finger response, by idiomotor signals.
Yes. So the client doesn’t have to verbalize what’s actually happening. They don’t have to. But in general, there is some slight verbalization. If, uh, when one of the questions in, in the protocol is, are there experiences that cause or affect the issue? And of course, most times that’s the truth, right? . So in that, and then you ask the mind if.
Are allowed to know about it because, you know, ultimately the mind keeps things safe, right? So if the person is allowed to know about it in the, then we do a form of regress. And, uh, you know how quickly it goes, it goes very quickly through the regression and we just have to find out just particularly how the person is feeling in that age group.
So the verbalization is very minimal, like you say. And we doesn’t have to, we don’t have to know the whole story about what each regression is. It’s what we’re doing is changing the feeling of the experience. And changing the perception of the experience or in a very similar way we would’ve done with inner child work in the past.
But it’s much easier and much faster when you get the, when you get to those states where you can do it much quicker. And I chair again, it’s an awesome training and if you have the opportunity to take this, it’s one that I highly recommend and really, really strongly and happily endorse. But what I really wanted to spend time with you talking about today, More about that journey from there.
You were taking your original training up until this point now where you’re working in a style that you’ve really mm-hmm. , you’ve modeled from other sources. You’ve like most of us, a little bit from here, a little bit from there, but more about that journey of taking the information that was presented to you first and then beginning to craft it and shift it and make it into your own, um, your original.
Yes. Yeah. When I first became aist, I took training and. I found that I didn’t really know enough of, you know, what I was doing, , . So I decided I needed to go out and take more training and that’s when I ended up with taking Jerry’s omni training, which definitely set me on the right track. And I, I tend to be a person that likes to get down to the nitty gritty and I don’t, um, don’t like to do a lot of.
Intricate work to do that. So it was right up my alley. So once I learned how to do regression to cause work, then I started to do that and I, I’d go to the convention every year and I’d take different workshops and pretty soon that integration of learning this way or that person’s even just the simple idea would change how I would work.
So from week to week, it was changing constantly how I did the work. And it’s an evolution. Pretty soon I was having, um, people come in, especially some men that came in and they didn’t want to do, verbalize what had happened, what the, what the causes were, what experience had caused. Let’s say they’d had some kind of abuse issue or something.
They didn’t wanna verbalize that in front of. So then I started to work on, well, how do I do this without him having to tell me? And then I just started to shift that and slowly it started to evolve into the Simpson Protocol. But, and I, as I found, as I did that, uh, that it was also very interesting is that you couldn’t just do things without the conscious mind having enough understanding.
If he did stuff, I found, you know, I had learned a, a subliminal technique, um, um, from Dr. Winkler at the convention years ago, and I don’t think he’s with us any longer, but he was another great hypnotist and he did things subliminally quite a bit. So I decided I would do that. But I also found that if you did it only that way and the conscious mind didn’t have any understanding that it would actually.
Come back because the conscious mind would just keep questioning it and questioning it and questioning it. , . So that questioning would sort of deteriorate the work he did. So you had to have a balance between those two. And that’s how the Simpson Protocol, uh, really came about was because every time something happened, I wanted the conscious mind to have understanding, even though the inner mind had done the work.
That, that’s an interesting point too, that it’s something that I’ve even heard a lot of, perhaps the, the purest NLP practitioner that does a lot of the work in a conversational state. I, I’ve still met some of the leaders of that field that would say that still at the end of the session, they’ll then go into a formal hypnosis process that in their mind that as the practitioner, the work has already been done, yet the conscious mind of the client doesn’t have.
Shingle to hang the change off of yet. Yeah. So to go through the ritual of the process, to go through the experience of, you know, something happening. Yeah. To actually believe that’s in process. It, it’s a little bit in our belief systems because we, you know, we go through life thinking, especially we’ve been trained for it.
No pain, no gain, all that stuff. So if it, something seems a little too easy. and then the mi then the conscious mind says, Well, that camp have worked. I mean, I’ve had this issue so many years, and all of a sudden that was, that’s it. That did it. You know, . So sometimes you have to do that. I understand that completely, that you actually have to create, uh, an somewhat of an illusion that you’re doing it one way when it’s already been.
Hm, Well, well, you’ve seen the Bob New Heart stop at video, right? Yeah. . Yeah, . Although that’s a, that’s a theme that while I’m not, you know, shouting Stop it at my clients, , it, it’s, it’s a theme that I’ve found creeping into my sessions more and more that, you know, to look at the structure of the challenge the client may be facing.
You know, not to say it’s something they’re doing consciously and we’re all guilty of this at time to time. Yeah. But it’s something that we’re just hypnotizing ourselves to believe the problem is too big to be overcome at its core. A lot of the things we’d like to change within ourselves, well stop now.
you know, the simplicity of it. Um, you know, my entire process with a stop smoking client has recently shifted to. The, the paraphrase, the, the joke I’d use around it is how deep do you have to get them to eventually just tell them, Look, all you have to do is nothing. You know, you used to do something and now you don’t have to anymore.
So, so stop it. , uh, you know, how deep do you have to get somebody? So that’s not offensive. Uh, not, not to characterize it in that way, but to bring the simplicity into it. Um, and specifically from the protocol, there’s a beautiful sequence. I, I looked at it as kind of like that, uh, that virus scan that’s looking for.
What about this Felix? What about that one? Is that useful? Okay. Go ahead and release it. Yeah, And you’re correct me here, you’re no longer the lazy hypnotist. What is it now? Oh, I’m supposed to be the efficient hypnotist now. There you go. . Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately, if you talk to someone who’s been through the session, not as, as an operator, sometimes it seems very simple and, you know, easy going.
The person who’s, who’s. Process has a lot of intense stuff go on. I had a client the other night that, um, the person said, Oh, you know, I don’t understand why I’m so tired when I’m finished. . I said, Well, he’s just done a whole bunch of work. He said, I feel awesome, but I’m really tired. And I said, Yeah, that’s why, you know, you should go home and have a nice sleep and process all the stuff that you’ve just done because it’s very intense.
And for the, for the client inside. . Oh, which is a great point too. It’s something I just heard you recently chat about the last time you were here. Yeah. Looking at, you know, we’re often trained that we have to look for this massive, if we’re doing a reaction style hypnosis, that we would have to look for this massive reaction, this massive feeling.
Yet you might have that client in the chair and the eyes are closed, and it just appears as if they’re sitting there yet beneath the surface. What’s going on is really the true story of what you’re working on. Very much so, and, and I know I’ve learned to sort of notice that now and, and see even when a client, you can have one little tear fall down their face and for them it’s very intense inside.
And you know, it’s giving them that support through it is, uh, what the protocol does because a lot of the time we work in, uh, um, what we call a higher level, you know, on these levels are doorways as far as I’m concerned. And you don’t know where they. You know, but you’re working in a higher level where the higher mind and, and some kind of guidance, whatever that is for the person.
I have no idea what that is, but it, they feel supported through it and it makes it quite a lot easier working in those levels. And then, uh, you af actually can take them to the, you know, when you finish that and you go to the different healing levels. And you can see their body twitching and things changing.
And sometimes it’s, it’s, it can be quite intense depending on the person, but I think even when it doesn’t look intense to you on the outside, it’s just as intense on the inside for them. I’m reminded of back in the day where mostly what I was doing was stage hypnosis, and perhaps here’s a bit where you’ve got the volunteers up there in a moment, you’re in the car, your dreams, you’re driving really fast wherever to the rights, wherever left, and you’ve got, you know, 15 or so that are up there and just as animated as possible.
And then here’s this one setting up there too, that looks like they’re barely moving. And the original training that I had said, Oh, they’re not animated. Get them off the stage. Bringing the show down. Yeah. Yet if you took the moment and look closer, they were actually going through the entire experience.
You know, they were leading just ever so slightly to the side. They, you know, um, turn the car around. You just see the hands kind of, almost as if the arms were just slightly moving, but they weren’t lifting up. Yeah. That, it’s just this interesting lesson of people will process a single suggestion in so many different ways.
Uh, which kind of relates to a comment you just mentioned about. You don’t quite know exactly what they’re going through. So maybe let’s chat for a couple of moments. You know, the whole concept of just the subjective experience of the client. You know, we often get hung up with this word deeper. Yes. Um, And my thought is it’s gonna mean something different to nearly every client that sits in the chair.
It’s gonna mean something different to nearly every single practitioner. What, what are your, some, some of your thoughts on that? Well, well, I, I think that too. I think you get to some manism for sure. And then from there on, it’s sort of a, a process of whatever happens you do. , obviously when you get to Esda, there’s tests to pass there if you wanna be right at Esda.
And, uh, what I say to my students a lot of the time is, is if they’re not quite there, but you can see that they’re just about there and you don’t want to, um, pressure the client in any way. You’re not gonna doing amputation here. We’re just using it as a doorway. Right. So the doorways for me seem to be that, um, I think and that, and I think that doctor’s EEG machine is sort of paying, buying into that.
Is that because the heart’s working in a different way in each, in each level. It’s also that you’re in a different state and the people recognize those different levels of being, and for each one they’ll be different. Like, just like you say, their perception of it is entirely different for one thing.
One is one can do it visually and they say, Oh, I see all these pretty colors and I see this and I see that. And others will just like me who are just, uh, you know, I, I just have to trust what comes into my mind and I just feel. Right, because I have more anesthetic and, and then somebody who’s very auditory, they’ll have all kinds of different levels of different, So what is deeper to each person?
It’s slightly different. And I, I think it’s interesting that when you allow them, I, I’ve actually incorporated this into the protocol in the last few years, is that I no longer asked them to go. I ask their mind to, to allow, uh, just allow your mind to take you deeper. And this seems like a subtle. . But the big difference of of it is, is that it takes the pressure off the person and their conscious minds can sort of gives it up.
It doesn’t, you know, just allows it to happen. Whereas otherwise, if when I say to the or you can say to them, now go deeper. The mind, the conscious mind saying, Well, how do I do that? What do I do? Do I go this way? Do I go that way? You know, and each person’s different. But if you take the pressure off and say, just let your mind take you deeper, you know, we talk about.
I always talk about that we’re talking to three levels of people. We’re talking to their conscious, their subconscious, and even their super conscious. So if I take the pressure off the conscious, the other ones can do their working more easily. I’m reminded of, I think it was William Mitchell in a workshop I attended of his, He’s talking about the, the benefit of just these artfully vague suggestions such as that rather than saying, feel how deeply relaxed you’re going, just allow your, I love that phrasing, and just allow your mind to take you deeper.
And I think the suggestion in his workshop was about working with people for quitting smoking, and the suggestion being from this point forward, they’ll just have zero. And half the room took that as a version. Half the room took that as I could care less about them. And it’s just allowing someone to sort themselves into whatever categories the most appropriate for them.
I, yeah, I think the most artful, artfully vague are the better outcome you have, the more, uh, judgment you use about how you want it to be or how you want them to experience something. Um, the less outcome you have. I in general, Let’s jump back for a moment. Yeah. Uh, specifically to kind of the, the establishment of this protocol.
Because when we start to talk about the esda state, it’s a state of hypnosis that’s characterized as, uh, you don’t have to use suggestions to achieve anesthesia. It’s often characterized as the client perhaps goes into a state of euphoria where they begin to perhaps ignore the operator, and it’s a part of hypnosis that.
Some would argue, well, they’re no longer responding to suggestion, therefore it’s probably not hypnosis yet. There it is, you know, covered throughout the entire history of all things hypnosis and the wonderful stories of James Dale removing a tumor from a man that the tumor had grown to be bigger than the man himself.
Yeah. Um, not a good, uh, story by the way to. Pull out for a lunchtime in a class. I found out . Um, but you know, to look at some of these bold statements that may be out there, uh, or even to just challenge the thinking. That’s, that we have, um, I, I was curious about specifically how it was you began to decide to approach it and let it become interactive rather than accept it for the non interactive state that it was often characterized as well.
I think for me it was because, uh, I, myself was a very analytical and I was, uh, I would be doing work with regression to cause with people, but if someone started to work with me, I would easily go deep and then elevate As soon as I was wanting to do any, anybody wanted me to do anything . So I decided, ah, there’s gotta be a bypass and a critical factor that works.
And I had always been told that the SDA level had was only good for doing what you’re talking about, you know, medical. Or burn work or any of those sort of things where you’re not interacting with the client. But I decided there’s, if there’s a bypass there, that’s that, I’d like to try it out. So I started experimenting and um, that’s how that worked.
And then one day, and I was teaching class and I decided, hmm. You know, sometimes when you’re doing work and some with pain relief, uh, you’ll put someone in hypnosis and they’re all comfortable and you’ll leave. Let’s say they had a backache. Then you’d say, Well, you, that part of the body stays in a nice state of hypnosis and you’d teach them to reinstall it, and all that kind of thing.
I thought, Well, why couldn’t you do it backwards? Why couldn’t you leave a part of the body in a different level of hyp? And, you know, you, you find as you do all this experimenting that the mind can accomplish anything that you can think of pretty much. So it started that way and it started to experiment, Uh, just how I felt in that level when people did the work with me, uh, at get students to, you know, practice and put me in Es.
And with the one arm out and to see what I was feeling and what I was sensing and it was sort of an experimental thing of, of how that all went. And I found that, you know, the bypass is a critical factor for me, which couldn’t, might be different for everybody else. Again, cuz we always assume if it’s like this for me, it’ll be the same for everybody else.
But in general, for me, it was because I just couldn’t be bothered or couldn’t care less what was happen. You know, I, I think my conscious mind was still totally aware of what was happening and everything, but I just couldn’t be bothered. So it was a great feeling and I thought, well, that’s for me is bypass a critical factor to the ultimate if you don’t care, and you can get suggestions in there very well.
So I’ve had students say that, you know, when you do the testing and did ask them to lift an arm or lift a leg, or any of those things, that they actually believe that they’ve. Hmm. And the class will say you didn’t do anything. But they said, I’m sure I moved my arm. I’m sure I moved my leg when you asked me.
I did everything you asked me, . So, you know, But on the outside it’s, you’re sort of talking about the guy that you’re talking about in the stage show when he is turning and it’s all very. It’s become so subtle. Oh yeah. And it’s become, in his mind, he’s doing it a hundred percent. That’s right. In his mind, he’s doing it a hundred percent.
But it’s so subtle. It doesn’t show in the physical, on the outside. So all those things just make you go, Mm, what next? You know? And so, uh, as you start to experiment and just different ideas pop into your head, and as I started doing the idiomotor dis responses, I just started to do differently than I’d seen in some other people do.
And I. Stole ideas from other good hypnotists around and, you know, and, and, and you start to sort of play and, and, and implement. You know, and I have to say that, you know, when I took omni training with Jerry, he always said, you know, 10% of the time experiment. Well, I guess I probably did a little more than 10% , but.
Ultimately if you don’t do that, you never get comfortable in your own skin. You have to do it the way you do it. And as I started to do it every time it was more exciting cuz I, something new had happened or something. It, I need some excitement in life, . So you have to experiment and change and, and do things cuz that’s the way it works.
Um, but ultimately the Es d l level led me from there to understand that anything could be done at that level and accepted easily. And it used to be said was, unless the motivation was high, now you just didn’t know that it was being accepted. So with the Simpson Protocol, what happened with that is that you, you understood that it was being accepted because you, you had the, the feedback.
And I think from there, that’s really where it goes. Evolution for each and every one of you. You’re using my protocol, but you don’t do it exactly as I do it, do you? Oh, no. No. Not at all. And that’s, and that’s because you are you and you have to do it your way. Um, there’s a certain amount of structure that has to be followed, but it’s really very little and it’s mostly the structure is to get you deep enough to do the, do the work.
The rest of it’s pretty open to everybody else how they wanna do their work. If they do a different style of. . Just experiment in how to do that in those levels, and you’ll have incredible, I’d like to know about it too. incredible outcomes because people, you’ve got training from all. Other people when I, you know, I, I’m, I have some NLP training, but not very much.
It’s not my, my technique of choice, but know very many people who are, do great work with it, and they can actually, they would just, uh, evolve it to their style, right? So, uh, I, I think each and every one. No matter where their training background is, can seem to figure out how to do this and evolve this into being them.
And I think that’s what is very, um, important when, when you’re with a client that you’re in a very authentic way of being because you are, uh, connected to that client. And, and it can be in these deeper states. It sometimes it, it can show you big time that you’re really connected to the client because you’ll just have a sense.
Um, when the clients even just finished one, one session, their connection to you is very strong, so, Well, it’s that principle that we’re, we’re going into hypnosis with the client. Yes, just along with them as well. And it’s that flexible nature, that openness, and I’d be one of the first to say that, you know, my, my whole thing is that we can’t get into this game of good technique, bad technique.
It’s a matter of the practitioner transcending the techniques and using the right approach, given the right information at the right time. Yes. You know, I’d get the call, I’m. Relatively populated area with other hypnotists. And sometime I’d get the call and it’s this person did this, is that right? And all I can respond ethically is, well, I wasn’t with you that day.
I might have done the same thing. Yeah. What’s different now? And just to base it on the client on that day, so, , let’s look at it from this perspective. And I give this characterization not to put it down because even the people who work with this format, well they get results too. And they can be quite effective.
The the one that’s got the, the stock induction and then is relying on scripts, what would be your recommendation just to start to break away and interact and. Get that flexible, just that experimentation into the process. What, what would you recommend they do? Okay, so if you’re working, if you’re just started and you’re just working with scripts and doing direct suggestion work, um, I think it’s just getting that initial confidence to move into something else.
I suggest they take some kind of workshops and, and different trainings on doing regression work for sure. And. I think everyone has to do regression. I don’t, that’s a judgment. I, not everyone, but in general, it’s better for the conscious mind against, for the understanding of the hypnotist because the in the hypnotist has to understanding.
So if they learn how to do regression, uh, really well, even though in the protocol it’s so simple to do unless you have had some background in the understanding of the training. So the. Training you take, uh, from whatever style of hypnosis, I mean, be it from NLP to just, uh, I don’t know anything at all. If, if you don’t, if you, all those trainings help you become who you are, and I always advocate to take all styles of stuff because you will fit.
Some things better than other things. And uh, that’s the one thing I noticed about the Simpson Protocol is that anybody from any background, eventually, uh, as they come in to learn it, they, they can utilize it in their way and their bent. . Well, excellent. Well, speaking of trainings right now, it’s uh, July, 2014, uh, coming up the two days after the NGH Convention this year, August 11th and 12th.
And as will be teaching her Simpson protocol, and Ted’s joining you for that one, right? Yeah, Ted’s joins me at the convention, which is always fun. Excellent. So you get a nice dash of Ted Robinson. Uh, the, the man who changed my opinion on eft, I was the one who goes, I don’t like that stuff. And then I saw him do it and went.
Okay, I can do that now. Yeah. Um, so that’s coming up soon too. , to learn more about Aez. Uh, correct me on this. It’s advance. hypnosis.ca, correct? Yes, it’s advance. And we’ll put links to that on the show notes, uh, for the podcast episode as well. Uh, Anez. Look forward to seeing you again soon. Okay. Talk to you soon.
See you in August. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast and work smart hypnosis.com. Please visit the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, listing on iTunes and share your positive feedback.