Session #237: Richard Nongard on Hypnosis Research You MUST Know About

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This is the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast, session number 237 Richard non guard on hypnosis research you must know about. Welcome to the Work Smart Hypnosis Podcast with Jason Lynette, your professional resource for hypnosis training and outstanding business success. Here’s your host, Jason Lynette. Break out.

Books, it’s time to re-look at some hypnotic research. Hey, it’s Jason Lenette here, welcoming Richard non guard back to the program once again. And I’ll give you the quick backstory to this week’s episode. It’s that I reached out to Richard. There’s a moment that happened back when we were teaching the Train the trainer event for the I C B C H back in June, 2019.

And where the conversation popped up around one of the most quoted pieces of research involving hypnosis and its efficacy. And while it’s good and while it’s positive, the challenge was, was that even the person who crafted the study has popped up in recent years to say, Hey guys, you are misquoting me.

So it’s where in this episode we’re gonna talk about revisiting some of the classic research and not even classic. You’re gonna see that many of these studies. Are actually ones that, uh, have come about in the last 10 to 15, 20 or so years. So in terms of taking that classic burial study that many people reference and shows the efficacy of, of hypnosis and six sessions, which even again, the person who crafted the study is now saying otherwise in terms of a misinterpretation of the criteria, but at the same time, In this dialogue, we are going to update things.

We are going to replace that with one that’s much more current and has much more applicable data. So we’re gonna make this one easy this week, that if you simply go over to work smart hypnosis.com/research, if you go over to work smart hypnosis.com/research, that’ll actually just redirect directly.

That’ll fun to say. Redirect directly over to this week’s podcast session. No need for an optin, we’re just gonna have a PDF download. All of the various studies are gonna be listed in the show notes connected with this episode. But again, just head over there. We’re gonna create a link to just the, uh, rather, uh, throw together PDF that we put together in terms of these studies so you can see exactly where to track these things.

What I mentioned is that many of these are ones that are behind a paywall in terms of, you know, getting access to the entire study. But you can see the sort of synopsis, You can see the basic details of it by heading over to that website. So again, work smart hypnosis.com/. Research that’ll simply point over to this week’s, uh, podcast session.

That’s where you can see all the details and resources in the show notes, or just simply click the button and, uh, get the entire PDF download of everything while you’re there to check out the upcoming events we’ve got, we’ve got the next Train the Trainer event that Richard and I are doing here in the Springfield, Virginia area.

Details are on the website at hypnotherapy. Dot com. Plus, on top of that, the upcoming H P T I Winter Hypnosis Conference joined me, Richard, along with 35 other hypnotic professionals, sharing what’s working right now in terms of helping to really create outstanding results with our clients. All the details and links over at the show [email protected].

And with that, let’s jump directly into this content pack session. Here we go, episode number 237. Richard non guard on hypnosis. You must know about, Hey, Richard Hypnosis works, right? Uh, yes it does. Okay, good. Good podcast session. That was a great interview. Thanks. I appreciate putting on the show. I know I got more time, so let’s do more.

So the re, the reason I wanted to have you back on the program was specifically that not only is you’re kind of known in the industry as being one of the leaders in terms of evidence based approaches to hypnosis, looking at the work that, not just as research around hypnosis. But also correct me on this research around specific techniques that we would often employ as hypnotists, right?

Absolutely. That’s really the cool thing about the research. There’s over 12,000 peer-reviewed studies that show that hypnosis actually works. The cool thing is those studies all reveal the methods that they used, so we know what methods are actually the most effective methods of professional hypnosis, and I love teaching those things that are based.

That which we think or we know is most likely to help more people, which is the research based approaches. Yeah, absolutely. And there was a moment that happened in the room when we did the, we did the Train the trainer event back in June, 2019. We did that here in Springfield, Virginia. And really, what was the impulse to have you on here?

Was there was a bit of dialogue that you shared that I went, Everybody else needs to hear this because as much as we do have good research, sometimes there is the accident of. Presenting a piece of research, perhaps not in the way that the original researcher had intended, right? Yeah. You know, one piece of one, one study does not make a fact.

What we’re looking for in research is a body of evidence. And, and so we’re looking for multiple studies to confirm a conclusion rather than simply one. This is why you see, you know, uh, on Facebook, you know, study proves that dog food causes cancer. And then the next week you’ll see studies prove that people who eat dog food never get cancer.

And these two things are completely contrary. How can that be? Well, studies are sometimes created more effectively than others. Sometimes studies focus on different elements of a problem, and so we have to look at a, a body of evidence to really decide whether or not something is effective or not, which, by the way, my favorite study, and I will have delinked to this in the show notes, is that someone did enough meta-analysis to prove the fact that the number of people who unfortunately.

Drown in a swimming pool every year directly correlates to the number of movies that the actor Nicholas Cage creates. You know, statistics can actually tell us anything. You know, living here in Las Vegas, one of my favorite statistics is that in 1979 when Elvis Presley died, there were actually 34 people.

Earning their living as professional Elvis Presley impersonators. And in 1989, just 10 years after Elvis Presley’s death, there were over 5,647 people who were earning their living as Elvis Presley impersonators. And at that rate, according to the statistic, in the year 2051 in five Americans will actually be an Elvis press rate

Well, there’s our future right there. So the, the sort of backstory to this conversation was that I’d reached out to Richard to say, I want you to compile what are perhaps like the, let’s say the, let’s see how many you gave me. Gave you, you do the same thing that I do of going, here’s 10 things on this, and then we come up with 12.

But you really came up with seven as I asked for. What are perhaps like the seven most important pieces of research that the modern day hypnotist should be aware of? And we’re gonna put these in the show notes of something available to you. And I kind of prompted the first one here, which I’ll, I’ll set it up for you, which is that there’s a classic study.

That many people put on their website. It was, Is it pronounced Barios? Alfred Barios. Alfred Burs, yeah. So the study, you’ve probably all seen this before if you don’t know the name, but it’s the number of sessions versus the types of therapy versus the recovery rates. And this is that study that shows after six sessions, there was a 93% success rate.

With hypnotherapy, there was 38% success after 600 sessions of psychoanalysis. And only 72% success. Well, 72 is a good number after 22 sessions for behavior therapy and a lot of people in our industry will put up this study cuz obviously it does present us in a very good light. But this was the thing you brought up the event, the train the trainer thing we did back in June.

What is it that we should know about this specific study to to reference? I think this is probably one of the most important studies in the field of hypnosis, and the reason why is because it is so widely quoted, it has become a meme on the internet. I frequently see not only this information on, uh, hypnosis websites where people are trying to communicate information to potential clients, but I see it just touted and passed around in memes on the internet by people who are so proud that hypnosis is so more effective than behavioral therapy or psychoanalysis.

And the reason why I think this is such an important study is because it is completely inaccurate information, which is completely and totally not useful for us. Harms. Your credibility when it’s on your website or shared as a meme, will not bring you any new clients. If your clients are sophisticated or academically inclined or, or, or knowledgeable of, of how research is.

Did. And the fact of the matter is, and this is the interesting thing, Dr. Barios actually posted on Facebook, I mean, on, on a, on a on hip thoughts back probably about 10 years ago and said, Look, stop quoting my study. You have it out of context and, and the issues here are that. Hippotherapy clients are different than behavioral therapy clients.

The type of clients that a psychoanalysis practitioner might see are different than behavioral therapy clients, so it really wasn’t apples to oranges. It wasn’t that it takes 600 sessions for a psychoanalyst to help a client make change, and it takes six sessions for a hypnotherapist to make change and everything else is equal.

These were really apples to oranges. And, and, and here’s one of the things that he actually pointed out in his post years. And that is, look what hypnotist did in 1970 when I wrote the article. Isn’t the same thing hypnotist do today. Mm-hmm. and, and, and psychoanalysis as a profession or as a strategy and psychotherapy is, is largely not even practiced anymore.

So if somebody were to go see a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a social worker, a professional counselor, uh, they’re not even gonna be doing psychoanalysis or behavior therapy, which you can think in, you know, in, in, in, in context of a b. Which I mean, that also brings up the other side note to the study, which is that, you know, I’ll tell the story by way of a metaphor.

There’s someone who used to be in this area where I am, but they’re no longer in this area. And maybe the story might be why that they got up at a meetup event. They weren’t the one hosting it. They were attending it, and their introduction was to say to this group of people, Well, I’m. Therapist. I don’t convince people that their problems can’t be solved and you know, trick them into doing a lifelong session.

I fix people quickly and to this person’s discredit one. That’s just a thing you shouldn’t be saying because no, but two, they didn’t realize there were a bunch of therapists in the room and you can guess the level of rapport that was not established in that moment. So to look at it from. Building that network that, I mean, I can look at today as an example.

Here’s a little bit busier of a schedule as I’m taking the next week off for some family medical things. But looking at the schedule and going, Okay, this one was a direct referral from a psychologist that used to be in the building back when I was an old town. Here’s a client who actually is a psychologist, so this way that we don’t wanna present that us versus them, it’s one of the fastest ways to block off that referral.

Well, and what Barios did in his study was he was simply looking at the types of therapy again, that were provided in that time period that aren’t provided now. Mm-hmm. what some of the, what the difference is in the type of therapy was and what the outcomes were, what different types of clients.

Unfortunately, the way it’s shared, And the reason why I topped my list with why we need to know about this is exactly what you alluded to. It’s a horrible way to build rapport. I never wanna position myself as us against them. Hypnosis versus psychotherapy. Look, psychotherapists are largely trying to help people who are in crisis return to an adequate level of functioning.

And, and, and hypnotists are largely helping people who, who are not diagnostic to achieve their greatest level of potential. It’s an entirely different audience. We are a distinct profession. We are doing work that is completely different than psychotherapists. Now, psychotherapists might use hypnosis as a tool, and we might actually provide some counseling or advice or support to clients in transition, but the reality is we’re seeing a different type of client.

We’re using a different type of approach, and it’s. Apples to oranges. And so this study really shouldn’t be posted on anyone’s website because it’s even been disowned by the author of the study. Yeah. Outstanding. So if, is it something that should be referenced in a different context or is it something that just should be, I hate to use, No.

I agree with Dr. Barios when he posted on this, and that is, It, it’s time and utility for being a journal article that yielded useful information has long passed. Well, I mean, it’s where I think we had the same conversation back at the Train the trainer that, and you might. Be able to correct me on this better than I can.

The bit of information about hypnosis was approved by the American Medical Association, right? What we can quote that, However, that has since been rescinded and correct me on this, that it really comes back to not that they changed their mind. It’s that they purge the older records and everything before a certain date is no longer, uh, Yeah, exactly.

So, so I see that time after time on websites too, in 1958 or whatever year it is, you know, the apa, you know, uh, officially endorsed hypnosis. What’s right there? That, that is a true statement because endorsed is a past tense word, but, but they rescinded all of their previous, you know, whatever they were.

You know, dispositions on these various subjects, et cetera. And the APA actually will send you a letter. I, I think I, I’ve heard this saying, Hey, take that off your website. It’s not an accurate representation of our position, Not because they’re not in favor of medical professionals or other professionals who are trained in hypnosis using hypnosis, but because.

The black or white thinking, this is good, this is bad, this works, this doesn’t work, isn’t actually very effective. And I’m gonna actually share one of these journal articles later on that I think is essential because it really follows up on that point. Well, let’s keep going then. Talk to me about, uh, I’ll read the sort of headline on this one.

The next point was, and again, the resources on the work smart hypnosis.com website. We’ll reference where to find these new directions at hypnosis research. Strategies for advancing the cognitive and clinical neuroscience of hypnosis. This was from 2017. Tell, tell me more about this one. Well, I, I think this study is really important.

Again, one of my favorite things to look at in the research, and any hypnotist can do this by the way, you simply go to scholar. Dot google.com. It is the greatest webpage in the world, and you can type in anything. You can type in hypnosis, anxiety, hypnosis, stop smoking, hypnosis, weight loss, hypnosis, fear hypnosis, cancer treatment, hypnosis, you know, whatever your, your word is a fibromyalgia, and it’ll pull up all the peer reviewed academic studies.

On any of those subjects, you can literally spend days and days and days on end that I have spent days and days and days on end looking at abstracts and looking at full journals. By the way, here’s a little hint. A lot of those journal articles are hidden behind a pay wall. Mm-hmm. . So when you find one you wanna read, just Google the title of of the article and add to it PDF and.

We’ll have posted it on the web, uh, so it’s not behind a pay wall and Oh, there’s the official pro tip. Yeah. You can al almost always get, uh, access to these things. But this particular study, so I, I, I, in today’s information sharing, Jason, what I wanted to do is share some things that are current. Mm-hmm.

what’s the current research on hypnosis and this, this articles only from two years ago. And here’s what it points out. It really pointed out that hypnosis has a demonstrated efficacy for a number of different conditions. And I hear people say all the time, hypnosis is a complementary and alternative strategy to help people step into blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Mm-hmm. , and it always bothers me when people describe hypnosis as an alternative or a complimentary therapy. The reality is it’s a first line intervention for pain control. This. Shares with us. The meta analysis that shows that it’s a first line intervention, not an alternative therapy when everything else fails for irritable bowel syndrome.

It’s a first line intervention that is effective with posttraumatic stress disorder clients. By the way, when I say first in first line intervention, it doesn’t mean that other strategies can’t be effective also. Mm-hmm. . But, but that clients clearly benefit from this as a primary approach. Hypnotherapy for depression, hypnotherapy for anxiety, hippotherapy for smoking cessation.

You know, this particular article in their meta-analysis actually supports the efficacy of, of hypnosis for smoking cessation. And there are numerous studies that do, and so this is really important. Element to this article. What I think is fascinating is it really shows that there are divisions in our, in our, in our brains, a as people are responding to hypnosis, because we now have imaging capacities that we didn’t have before.

We now know that, that the. Brain to mind is literally changed when a person is experiencing hypnosis. And this study is a pretty deep study. It’s a metaanalysis of numerous studies. Those are my favorites because they look at a body of research, not simply one study or another study, but the primary thing here, and this that we should get out of it is hypnosis.

Isn’t an alternative and complimentary therapy. It’s, it’s not just woo woo. It is a first line intervention with proven efficacy for a wide range of different clients to help them recover faster, to help them feel better, and to help them make the changes that are important to them. And that’s pretty exciting.

Yeah. And what’s great about this one is that the main bullet points treatments have demonstrated efficacy for a number of conditions, and research supports the role of divisions and the interior simulate, simulate, and prefrontal courtesies and hypnotic responding. So it, this is where I, I’ve been guilty at times of someone goes, Well, I really believe in this stuff.

And having to go, Well, we’re. Past the point of belief , and here in one specific analysis is that combination of one, it works and two, here’s why. That’s brain science, right? Yeah. That’s outstanding. So to have that in one specific study that that that’s, that’s one that I think, I mean this one alone, for those people who are still using that, back to the first point here, that old burial study, this is the one I think could help to just replace.

Absolutely. I think you’re right. I think anybody listening to this who’s really serious about representing hypnosis accurately should find this article printed out, know the contents of this article, and then share loudly the findings of this article with other people, because it, it clearly demonstrates that hypnosis is a first line intervention.

Yeah. Which again, and that’s, we were trying to communicate with the. Inaccurately cited barriers. Um, you know, I don’t know how we’d create the second one into a meme like we did the first one, but, you know, whoever does that, you know, is gonna be a real popular hypnotist. So I’m gonna put Marion Spurgeon on that.

She come up with one, probably the queen of hypno memes. So yeah, we’ll put these again, all the links and everything in the show [email protected]. So let’s move to the third one. I’ll let you introduce this. So the title of this article is Hypnosis and Therapeutic Relationship, Relational Factors in Hypnosis and Psychotherapy.

And if I remember correctly, this is actually a journal article that was a summary of a panel discussion at either Ash, the American Society. Of, uh, clinical heus or the Society of Experiential and, uh, clinical hip hip therapy. Again, these are the, these are the psychology and academic oriented professional associations.

And I can’t remember where this panel discussion took place, but it was on, it was on the, the, the, the importance of the therapeutic relationship as a factor in hypnosis. In other words, what makes hypnosis work and what, what was largely discuss. Was the, the research and the experience of professionals that show the most important variable in any hypnosis session is actually the quality of the relationship.

So I relate this to another study that I’m not sure if I actually included it in our bibliography or not, but it’s, uh, uh, it, it’s a, it’s a research summary of the therapeutic relationship and psychotherapy by Michael Labor at Brigham Young University. Yeah, 2001. And what he showed gave me that reference before.

If you go to rethinking rapport.com, that’s the TEDx talk that I did. Right. Which was all around that theme. And, and what, what, what he found at Brigham Young University is that when we’re talking about psychotherapy or hip therapy or any therapy approach, I mean, it probably applies to occupational therapy and art therapy and any other therapy out there.

The most important variable in whether client is gonna do well or not is actually the therapeutic relationship in. In other words, does the client know that we care about them? Have we communicated that we’re on their side? When we believe in the client, the client believes in themselves and, and, and. And this is why, this explains why therapists who use bad methods can have outstanding results.

So I’m sure you can think of somebody and you’ve heard them talk or share their ideas on hypnosis, and you’ve walked away shaking your head saying, Wow, this person’s not a very good hypnotist. But you go look at their Yelp reviews and you see they have, you know, 67, 5 star feedbacks. In other words, people are actually making changes and saying, Awesome.

It was an awesome experience. There are methods of hypnosis that we either know are not largely effective. Let’s take aversion therapy for one. Most professionals don’t practice aversion therapy because aversion therapy is largely ineffective. There are other methods that there’s simply no proof.

There’s. Empirical evidence to suggest that this is the most effective approach in hypnosis, One of those being regressed to, Cause I, I know I’ve just stepped on a lot of toes. I, I’ve never been anti regression. I just believe we should use regression as it’s probably most likely to benefit clients. That is as a relapse prevention tool, not as a tool for creating the change in the first place.

But there’s literal. Zero research in the peer reviewed studies that show that Freud’s idea of, and that’s really where it comes from regress to causes the best approach in hypnosis. But you, you see at any hypnosis conference or convention, you see people saying, Well, you know, I do regress to cause regress to causes my go-to technique.

This is exactly what I, what I do. And because of regress to cause all my clients got better. The research actually doesn’t support that. What? Well the research correct me and not to go off on a tangent cuz. Believe we’ve had this chat on the podcast already, but to look at how the models correct me on this, are the research models looking at getting out of the model of hypno analysis, which is the sit back and watch the miracle unfold because now we have insight versus the model that those who will make use of regression are actually doing nowadays in our profession.

Is there up to date research with what? With what Jerry K popularized as the informed child styles doing. I wanna, I wanna address Jerry kind’s approach in particular. I, I actually prefer to take it, you know, back to Freud and mm-hmm. and, and, and that’s where this idea that it’s our, our repressed subconscious, uh, look, we can’t change the past no matter how many times we go back.

Yeah, we can potentially retraumatize clients. I mean, I’ve never been a big fan of regards to cause, but, but here’s the real issue. The people who say, But wait a minute, regress to cause changed my client’s lives. The research actually shows it probably didn’t. What actually changed their. Was not the method you used.

What changed your life is that you’re actually a good person. You cared about people. If you’ve been practicing a method that either has no research to support it, or a method that, like aversion therapy shows that it’s not an effective method and you’ve been producing results, you should actually pet yourself on the back because it’s not a testament to your technique.

Mm-hmm. , it’s actually a testament to how awesome and caring of a person you are and. So, so these, these two studies, the original study, uh, from Michael Lambert in 2001 and, and then this paper published in 2019, just this year really, I think help us to recognize that the most important variable is. My attitude and my beliefs about the client.

Mm-hmm. , and it, it really trumps technique and I think so many people focus on what technique and I order in the XYZ or the five step technique in order to be the best hypnotist out there. If you really wanna be the best heist out there, actually care about people, I mean, then you can probably do the kick the chicken across the floor therapy method, and I probably produce results.

Richard? Richard, I’ve got the, I’ve got the trademark on that. We’re not talking about that. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I’ll wait. Although I, I share, it’s, uh, and this is what, you know, the keynote that I’m doing at the upcoming winter conference is actually gonna be about the power of hypnotic framing that, you know, to, not to, let’s go back and deep beat the, uh, dead regression horse again, but to look at it from the way that I’m framing to the client today isn’t about where this issue may have come from.

Today’s about not having to live in that old story. And really from my perception, if I am gonna make use of regression, that’s the metaphorical shingle to hang off. The hinging point of going, this is where the client’s now doing direct suggestion hypnosis on themselves, which let’s chunk out of that entire conversation and realize it’s because I’m framing it and I’m.

Technically selling that premise to the client in the office. As soon as they say, Yeah, that makes sense, they’re giving me a H, not a contract agreeing with me, that’s going to work. Which goes back to the point of this study, it’s about the therapeutic relationship because I’ve framed it because I’ve created the buy in because we have the rapport.

I could trade out the technique for something else and get the same. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. So look, I’ve said if all we did was induction, deepener and reorientation, and we did nothing else, if we were actually a good person who cared about and believed in our clients, and we communicated that with empathy and rapport, 99% of our clients would think that the hypnosis session was the greatest session they’ve ever.

The greatest thing they’ve ever experienced. And our goal is not to impress other hypnotists at a hypnosis convention. It’s actually to help our clients make change. You will not believe the efficacy of the kick the chicken across the room technique though. On that note, let’s move to the fourth study here.

Sure. Which is about functional brain activity. Introduce this one for us. So the title of the article is, uh, by, uh, I can’t say his European name, so sorry. To my European friends. Ri uh, Halland. Yeah. Functional. I think. I think it’s ri But they’ll, they’ll correct us. RI has band, right. Functional changes in brain activity after hypnosis neurobiologic mechanisms, and apply application to patients with a specific phobia limitations and future directions.

One thing I love about this title is it appoints to the fact that there might be some limitations in hypnosis. Again, as hypnotists, we wanna say, Hey, this thing works with everybody. Always. The reality is that the, the, the, the approach of hypnosis might have some limitations. We should always bear that in mind.

But here’s what I loved about this study. It studied the technique of brief hypnosis. This wasn’t. You know, ongoing weekly sessions. This was not two hour marathon sessions. This wasn’t 600 sessions. It wasn’t 600 sessions. Right. It was, it was brief hypnosis and, and what we saw was that in clients, at least those related to fears that, kinda like the second study I cited here, we saw changes in the brain.

So we saw positive outcomes with brief hypnosis. In other words, in other words, the, the, the one session miracle actually can occur. Now I, I think that sometimes the one session miracle isn’t real believable in our marketing. You and I know that if a person develops a phobia in five minutes, you know, a auto crash, a snake in the road, uh, you know, a, a a, a traumatic experience on an airplane.

If they can learn a phobia in five minutes, they probably actually can unlearn a phobia in five minutes. We just need to know how to do that. But, and, and this study again, supports the idea of brief hyp. And I think that’s really powerful it people need to know that hypnosis is effective. Now, I don’t usually offer single sessions, and the reason why I don’t offer single sessions is while I do believe my clients leave the first session a non-smoker, I believe that they can benefit from multiple sessions.

So with my smokers, for example, I typically do three sessions with my fear of flying clients. I typically, Three sessions as well with my anxiety clients, where it’s been a chronic issue for them, where they have multiple specific phobias. I’ll typically work with them for six sessions. Again, brief hypnosis and, and, and the idea here, you know, um, uh, solution focused brief therapy for those who come from a therapeutic background.

Stephen Delozier at the, uh, Milwaukee Family Therapy Institute. All of his work really have some great hypnotic techniques that although are never labeled hypnosis. Are truly useful in hypnotherapy as well, and you and I will recognize them largely as hypnotic techniques. Yeah. Which I love even being sure to highlight the fact that, as we say, brief hypnosis, Yes.

That brief also doesn’t include three sessions. That brief doesn’t necessarily have to be that model of coming in and just one time, and we’re done that by comparison to, again, different modalities or simply the time of being inside of the. Yeah, here, here’s someone I worked with recently. You mentioned IBS earlier in the second study here, that the fact was that this was a lifelong issue that they had dealt with.

And from some in our community, they would hear the, why did it take so long? But this person was thrilled that we more or less resolve the issue in like six appointments. Well, by comparison, that was a brief bit of time compared to the number of years that this issue had been, uh, going on. You mentioned.

Limitations. Can you, can you elaborate on that here on that one? How about elaborate on limitations? When I actually talk about the last stuff? I think. Okay, cool. I think it really relates to it. The next one I’m actually pretty excited about. How’s that for a cliff hanger? Everybody? We got more stuff coming your way.

Stay tuned and you’ll, you’ll discover the limitations. I think. In the meantime, we should talk childbirth. Yeah, so one of my favorite studies, um, from 2017 again, is a two year old study. I was trying to stay current on the research and current on the studies, and you had a guest previously here on, uh, your podcast, uh, Tracy Barrett Adams, and she, you know, has been doing it.

Probably more hypnosis for childbirth than probably anyone I know of. But this particular journal article talks about the outcomes, uh, in one obstetrician’s practice who utilized hypnosis. And so it was a well conducted study. There were 50 participants who were receiving hypnosis 50 that weren’t, They then broken down into control group, et cetera.

And here’s the quote, word for word from the. Prenatal hypnosis preparation resulted in significantly less use of sedatives, analgesia, and regional anesthesia during labor and in higher one minute neonatal AAR scores and AAR scores are essentially a scale of one to 10, how healthy a baby is. Mm-hmm. . And so the hypnosis practitioners are the hope of the hip hypnosis.

Practicers, you know, again, use less, less sedatives, less analgesia because they controlled pain better, less anesthesia during the labor and, and, and the babies were healthier. This is really, I think, important people say to me all the time, you know, I’m surprised if doses can be used for childbirth. And again, I think we’ve long known that we just haven’t.

Called it hypnosis. I remember when my oldest son was born, that was 28 years ago, and so this was probably 29 years ago that I went to the child birthing classes at the hospital, and I remember sitting there thinking to myself as I was practicing breathing and all of those things, the reality is they were actually teaching hypnosis.

They just never used the word. We know that hypnosis can help somebody. This is the cool thing about it, start their life off better. You know, in the last 53 years of the years, my life has been greatly enhanced because I learned hypnosis and I learned hypnosis when I was fairly young. I learned it in grad school when I was probably, you know, 22 years old.

I actually learned it before that. I, I, I. I just didn’t know I was actually doing hypnosis then. And I’m really glad I meet people all the time who don’t discover hypnosis till they’re 50 or 60 or even 70 years old, and they look back and say, Wow, where would I be in life if I had learned this 40 or 50 or 60 years ago?

And this is one of those studies that actually shows that. Life starts out better with hypnosis. And what’s great about this one too, is to even look at, you know, specifically the the HTO Birthing Program from Marie Bonkin. The catchphrase of that group is that for normal, healthy mothers with normal healthy babies, a much more comfortable experience.

Which, what’s beautiful about that phrasing is it’s not promising pain free. I mean, Michelle used it to deliver Max, and as she put it, she goes, Well, it definitely wasn’t pain free. But I was in control of the experience and it wasn’t unbearable. I was, let’s call it more analgesia, more so than anesthesia.

And to look at how the catch phrase, and this kind of is often presented as an anecdotal statement, but now from just a few years ago, 2017. There’s the bit about higher one minute neonatal Apgar scores that the baby is coming out healthier. Anecdotally, from those in the hypno birthing community, you would hear the baby comes out a little bit more peaceful.

Mm-hmm. , which hears research that’s backing that up, so that’s. That’s outstanding, which right there, there’s, uh, two weeks ago in the podcast, Scott Salan was on here talking about working with hypnosis for teens and some of it we got into the topic of hypnosis for the much younger kids as well. Let’s start him off at birth.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and my, my son, many, many people have watched Alex as my subject and a lot of my training videos over the years, so he’s my hip now kid, and I. Teaching him hypnosis when he was probably two or three to help him sleep and been using it his whole life and academic performance, uh, stress and anxiety, many other areas of life.

And he’ll tell you that his life has been greatly improved as a result of. Learning hypnosis as a, as a, as a small kid. Yeah. Which again, for those following along all the notes and references we’re making, this is the, uh, one of the, what’s the phrasing of this is the annotated first ever annotated episode of the podcast, uh, that you might wanna be following along with, as I, I mentioned, I’m sure in the intro.

Let’s move to this six study here on the list of seven, which again, I love the fact that I didn’t catch this when you first sent it to me. All of these are like in the last 10 to 15 years. They’re all very current, and this is one I see this one. This one’s from last year. Perfect. Again, all of these studies are, again, I try to always keep on top of the current research.

You know, I can pull up cool stuff from 1986, but as soon as anybody with an academic background sees a study from 1986, like the burial study, they say, Wait a minute, have times changed? Have methods changed. This is where our common background of having the hobby previously of magic comes in. Cuz one of my first magic books I ever bought was teaching a Coin Trick from t Nelson Downs, the King of Coins.

And the intro to the trick was Borrow a top hat from a gentleman in the audience. Right, exactly. So it’s time to update. So how awesome here we are. This is a study about obesity and hypnosis only from last. So clients often come in and they say, And now I only work with clients who need to lose half their body weight.

I only work with SP specifically in weight loss. I’ve sort of specialized in men who need to lose half their body weight in the next 24 months, or frankly, they’re gonna die. So my. Clients are 400 pounds. I actually at one point had the fattest man in the world as a client of mine. I got him when he was down to 711 pounds.

I worked early on. Some of people who know my background know this at the William Raider eating Disorder treatment program back in the, back, in the, the very early two thousands. So this has always been an area of interest, uh, for me and just like anyone else, the older I get, the more I have to pay attention to my own weight.

I’ve actually lost 20. Pounds, actually more than 20 pounds since hip thoughts this year. Nice. Uh, yeah, Yeah, Yeah. So I’ve been actually practicing what I preach in my own life and, and have seen significant results of it. But many of us work with late weight loss and clients come in and they say, you know, They come in, we’re a last resort.

They come in and they say, I can’t believe it. I’m seeing a witch doctor, but I’ve tried everything else. Maybe they’ve even tried a gastric band type of surgery, or maybe they’ve been ruled out as a candidate, but that was what they were sort of banking on, and they say, I’m not sure how you talking to me is actually gonna help me lose weight.

It seems unbelievable to them. And there are numerous studies that actually show hypnosis is an effective intervention for obesity. Not only losing the weight, but actually keeping the weight off long term. The one I like about the milling study here is it is, again, a meta-analysis. It looks at multiple studies, and this is a phenomenal statistic.

The average participant receiving some form of hip. Osis lost more weight than about 94% of control participants at the end of treatment, and about 81% more than controls at follow up. Nice. In other words, a hypnosis is really a first line intervention for. For, for weight loss and, and I like the word here, some form of hypnosis.

There are a lot of different things, you know, you and Sheila Grainger have, have, have, have really pushed forward. The, the virtual gastric band idea Roger Moore has, has approaches that are really based on the science of, of eating. A lot of the strategies that I’ve used with my clients focus, On the behavioral aspects and increasing activity.

O other folks deal with the, uh, the emotional content of a person’s weight that they need to be released. And, and this is a, a cool little statement here. Those who had some form of hypnosis, whether there was recording, whether it was live session, whether it was a group session, because it looked at a, a bunch of different studies, they were all successful.

Mm-hmm. . So people wanna argue about which is the best approach. The best approach is that which works for our. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s the approach that we should use and this study of milling gives us, I, I think real confidence to passionately share with clients at hypnosis helps people lose weight and keep the weight off.

And then we can go about selecting the approach that’s best for the client. And what’s great about this list is, and this is something I’ve shared previously or here, but for those that are new, You know, I, I teach a lot in terms of sales, the power of metaphor, the power of storytelling, the power of explaining, here’s a client’s success story, and then the client conversationally goes, Yeah, that’s what I want to do.

Which describing the technique is doing the technique and they’re now preframing that this is what’s gonna be a fit for them. And I think that’s a lot of what makes a lot of our strategies work. So my phrase has always been, If you don’t have your own stories, don’t make them up. Don’t lie. But this is where you lean on the success of your profession and say, Well, here’s the research that’s been presented.

It’s like there’s another older study that everybody was following a diet program, but the people using hypnosis as the motivational improvement factor on top of the diet program. That group had higher results, and with this one, by being the meta-analysis for getting even out of. Program and even out of the this technique versus that one because by being a meta-analysis, hypnosis helps people lose weight.

There’s the research. Absolutely. Yeah, by the way, in case, I don’t know if it’ll get edited out or not, but that was the sound of freedom flying overhead. The Air Force has been quite active today. So if that background noise was picked up and you wonder what was that? That was uh, that was the sound of freedom flying overhead from N’S Air Force Base.

Awesome. And speaking of freedom, how’s that for a transit? So the, the seventh one here, the Hypnosis for the management of, I love the title of this one, Anticipatory Nausea and Vomiting. This is from 2015. This is absolutely one of my favorite studies of all time. It’s from a journal on oncology, a title, Hypnosis for Management of Anticipatory Nausea and Vomiting.

And that’s because people are anticipating nausea and vomiting because they’ve gotten the negative hypnotic suggestion that when you have chemotherapy you’re gonna have nausea and vomiting. And the study of course, found that when people learn hyn. That they, uh, manage their nausea and vomiting, that they were able to tolerate treatments better, and that they were able to, to have encouraging results along the way and positive outcomes in the course of their chemotherapy as a result of their, their practice of hypnosis.

This is one of my favorite studies because I think it directly relates to what you said are the limitations. So sometimes in hypnosis there is an idea that I, I, I, you know, for example, let’s say you put up on your webpage and come see me for, you know, if you’re in cancer treatment and, and the idea here is that somehow I’m gonna make people not have cancer because of the hyn.

Now we’ll get into the metaphysical possibilities of how many angels dance on the head of a pin and if, if this is possible or not. But you know, there, there’s all kinds of cases of, in the world of cancer treatment, of spontaneous remission and misdiagnosis and all kinds of other things. So anything is possible, but, but what I want people to really see here is that hypnosis is a tool that can help people improve the quality of their.

Even if they are getting conventional treatment, it’s not hypnosis versus chemotherapy, it’s hypnosis with, in this case, chemotherapy. There are obviously other approaches in the medical world to treating cancer as well, ranging from surgical to radiation, to various medications, to dietary changes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Hypnosis is a tool. That can enhance outcomes of other treatments and hypnosis can and should be used responsibly to do that. So when I post on my website, you know, come see Richard. If you have cancer, it doesn’t mean that I’m going to cure your cancer that you may find. As a result of the various treatments that you’re engaged in, that you end up on the well side of your previous diagnosis.

I, I don’t, I can’t quantify what role the hypnosis played in that it was probably all of these things synergistically working together, coupled with your previous biology and, and all those sorts of things that, that are, are the causes of cancer. But this article really shows. That we can come alongside any other form of treatment to help people live their very best life with hypnosis.

I had a client who came in for smoking cessation years ago, and it was a two o’clock appointment. She came in, she had a big smile on her face and, and she said, I am ready to quit smoking. I said, That is awesome. What have you done to get ready? And she said, Well, I saw my family physician yesterday and I got Chantix.

She said, And I bought some homeopathic medicine, which we all know is comprised of nothing. And then she said, You know, in addition to that, I bought a, I bought a book on. You know, quitting smoking. So bibliotherapy and, you know, I, I, I participated in a, in a website forum where we hold each other accountability.

So I have an accountability partner now, and now I’m here for my hypnosis session. And I did not say to her, Oh my gosh, don’t read the book. Forget about the accountability partner. You know, don’t eat the Chantix, uh, you know, all these sorts of things. What I simply said to her was that, Awesome. I am really glad you’re here to complete the final step.

And when you leave here today, you’re gonna leave a non-smoker. And I know you’re gonna do absolutely fantastic because what you told me is you are ready to quit smoking. And so, yeah, let’s get done with this. Every, everything’s an asset. I forget. This is the result of us hanging out so much over the years.

I forget if I said this or if you said this, which was that? Someone that. Yeah. Someone a while ago came in and you know, goes, I’m so ready for today. I put on my last nicotine patch to get the rest of it out of my system, and I’m not about to sit there and tell her that. Well, you know, you’re like the only person who has ever come in and a couple of thousand clients who has done that.

Right. And I’m gonna say, you know what’s great about this, and I’m gonna get kind of playful with the math on this, but it turns out, if you look up online, there are studies around like nicotine replacement therapy. Which, you know, may say it’s successful for like 40% of the people, which is, let’s not focus on those six out of 10 that it might not work for, because clearly that’s a product that’s still out there because it works for some of the people some of the time.

And the same way that you already saw in my website, here’s research around hypnosis, that even some of the more conservative numbers are like high 70 percentile. Well, you know, I know the math doesn’t quite work out, but basically that means today, You’re going into this, so it’s like more than 110% odds of success.

Doesn’t that sound good? And she’s smiling. She’s getting the humor of it going, Oh yeah, Perp. Which it’s no . Was that you or was that me, or was that somewhere else? I think it was both of us together. Yeah. So I think that client I talked to, I actually added up the percentiles of the different methods that came up with 120% or whatever it was.

And so maybe it is a story that I told, I’ve seen so many clients over the years, and this last study really points to the fact that. That hypnosis can come alongside any other treatment and help improve a person’s life. And ultimately, people come to our office because they want their life to be better.

And I, I don’t, I’m not in a competition to make hypnosis the only method a person uses. Uh, in fact, in some cases, That can actually harm our clients, and I certainly wouldn’t contradict the medical treatment that their physician has, has already discussed with them, prescribed for them, and recommended I.

I may have them go back and share with their physician the successes that they’re having as a result of hypnosis to see if the physician wants to make some changes. But one of the easiest ways to set yourself up for issues related to liability and to end any referrals is to. Put yourself in competition with the primary care physician of the patient who is in your office.

Yeah. Which I know you have another resource specifically on even more research. You’ve just given us seven. And what’s great about these seven is that they’re all relatively new. They’re not research ba dating back to the 1920s when borrow a top hat from a gentleman in the audience. We’ll make these available on the site.

Where can people go to get your 101 medical proofs? You know, on, on my, on my [email protected] and many people have been to that webpage. There’s actually right on the homepage when you it, it’ll pop up. We’ll say, Hey, do you want the research on hypnosis? And I’ll forget if what’s on there. 24 more studies or, or more than that.

I think it’s 24 studies that I found to be real useful in communicating with clients in the public. The OSIS is a real tool to make change, and then we always give way to anyone who comes to our Train the Trainer course, or any of my OSIS certification training courses, Not complete collections, actually, a little book put together with 101 proofs that hypnosis actually works to help people heal faster, recover stronger, and live a better life, which again, lean on the success.

Profession and you know, take it outta that category of belief or disbelief that no, here’s the research that backs it up. And even this is one of the strengths that, this is where we started the conversation. That by looking at the research, very often we see a description of what they did in the process.

And now we’ve got a through line to something. Now we’ve got some more flexibility. While we’re all client centered, we might not necessarily do it the exact same way every single time to have that knowledge that here’s the way that, Well, you the other day posted a picture of a wol and was having to ask, What is this?

And of course, we were all responding. It was one of the Twilight movies, which makes me tell the story of years ago. Client comes into the office and she goes, If I could just, she had this fear of she was pregnant and very nervous about bringing a baby into the world and the protection of the baby. And she goes, you know, it’s like that recent Twilight movie where they finally have the vampire baby, you know, like you do.

And here comes vampire baby. And in one of the scenes, the werewolves are about to ta about to attack. That’s a thing that happens in Twilight, and the whole scenario was, of course, what do the vampires do? They put a protective shield around the baby, obviously, and she now drops this as a reference and goes, If I could do that in my mind, I’d be able to sleep at night.

When of all things that I’ve told the story here before, not necessarily from research, but the value of reading ScriptBook from other practitioners, that was the nail biting pattern I read from Ron Eslinger like 10 years. They’re in that, you know, storage facility of the brain. That thing was there. So it builds this greater flexibility.

You mentioned there a moment ago, the Train the trainer event that we’ve got coming up. We’ve got a couple of them at the time of this recording. There’s one very soon in Virginia, there’s one in Las Vegas. For those that. People have asked both you and me about the IC B C H train the trainer, and the great thing about the IC B C H Train the trainer courses is as an opportunity for those to put together a comprehensive training program that teaches other people professional hypnosis and does so from their base of experience and from their strengths.

And the, the cool thing about it is that the IC BCH H has a bunch of different flexible resources so people can bring those elements into their training program and create incredible training programs. And IC BCH trainers can do that online, they can do that offline, and they can do it in what we always recommend hybrid programs, but it really is a modern approach to training others in hippotherapy.

And the cool thing, Is that those who are ic, BBC H trainers, their graduates can qualify for certification as professional hypnotists through the IC B C H. They can then access the member benefits, including our magazine titled Reframe the Magazine for Professional Hypnotists, the things that we’ve done in the IC B C H to help on entrepreneurs, people in private practice succeed at business, like solving the problem of where do I get healthcare coverage.

By offering a association group healthcare plan as well as liability coverage so that they can protect their family from any potential liability or lawsuits. Fortunately, the insurance for liability coverage is cheap because hypnosis is so low risk, but the reality is, is something we have to have in the modern era and the I C B C.

Provides a a just wonderful benefits to, to, to, to members and those who are interested in training and certifying others can take the Train the Trainer program that you and I offer usually a couple times a year, and they can certify their students, their graduates, really throughout the world as I C B C H Certified Professional Hip, which correct me on this, if just simply going to, cuz it’s your website, not mine.

Going to hypnotherapy board.com. That’s where the info for the next train. The trainers are always posted. Correct. It’s actually our website. It’s all of our website, the professional website. Look at that. So nice website, . Uh, and I’d love to have a collaborative spirit and, and, and where we can you pay the.

I’s, it’s your website, right? So it, it’s right there [email protected]. The other cool thing that’s on there, of course, is a link to our upcoming winter hip. Let lemme pause you there for a moment just to highlight something, which this has been the greatest strength that I found, which you’ll see that I, I referenced this over on the page for.

My hypnosis training courses, work smart hypnosis live.com, which was the study that, similar to this conversation you shared with me, the University of Washington Meta-Analysis that talks about live training versus online versus a hybrid approach to look at doing a course nowadays, as I now do, that’s not necessarily what we were doing 50, 60 years ago.

And teaching from out of date materials instead, having that full permission to have students in front of me and go, This is what I’m doing. So it’s where, this is the biggest question we’ve had about the train the trainer, is that, how can you really pull that off in two days? Which the answer is we.

Don’t, because the two days is the time of giving you the knowledge in terms of these are the core competencies your students need to have. Here is the information you now have access to. Here’s where we as a team begin to brainstorm how you craft your own course. But with our active Facebook group and some ongoing, um, webinars, now that we’re back from hypno Thoughts and I’m back from Australia, uh, we’re gonna ramp that up once again, doing some of those video resources.

But being able to present a course that reflects kind of like the research you’ve shared here today. Where hypnosis is right now and where it’s going, as opposed to here’s a record of how it used to be. Yeah, the train the trainer doesn’t teach people how to do hypnosis. Our assumption is to people who come to that class are already competently doing hypnosis.

It’s really an onboarding, though. It actually all begins when the class is over because the I C B C H, you, me, the other board members, the many different members, the other instructors are gonna provide ongoing resources to help you continue to. Create excellent training programs long after the initial two day certification course?

Yeah, again, absolutely. It’s the end of the course is actually the beginning because we’re there with the trainers to support them, to help them create exceptional materials and to share passionately based on their areas of expertise and passions, the support. I love that someone popped up the other day to go, Hey, here’s my syllabus.

What do you. So on that note too, coming up in February at a very familiar space in the Orleans Hotel Casino in Las Vegas, the The Winter conference. Yeah. So the 2020 Winter Hypno Conference is coming up. It is a whopping 289 bucks right now for all three days, and the first day has a great, Keynote speaker.

His name is Jason Lynette. He’s gonna be kicking it off and, and it’s gonna be following you see how a little while ago I told you what I’m actually talking about in the keynote, and we haven’t had that conversation yet. The power of hypnotic framing, how to present your work in such a way. It’s the theme that I’ve held back, which is the, the, the message in my brain for years, Hypnotic framing is a better title than the original draft, which was how to go placebo on techniques that actually.

How to take things that we already know were effective and make them even more effective by giving the framing. So rather than inspirational message and the harrah to our profession, I’m gonna be up there for that keynote, giving you real actionable content you can put into use right away. And that’s followed by, you know, Karen Handon, Kelly Wood, who happens to be my favorite hypnotist.

But don’t tell the others. What they’re gonna be doing is really interesting. They are going to actually be sharing how to create seminars and programs for the public, not for other hypnotists as ways of creating awareness within our communities and generating referrals. And, and, and we’re gonna actually end the day with Tracy Barrett Adams talking about the research and the methods of hip birthing.

So it’s gonna be a great first day, but then that’s followed by two days. Of 35 different folks sharing ideas, and this is the one thing that the winner hip conference does that’s different than anyone else. We actually record all of the sessions with high quality video, and if you register for the conference, we’ll actually give you no extra charge all of the videos from the entire conference so that you actually never miss anything.

If you pick a room to go in, you’re not actually missing the content from the other room. You’ll get the full high quality video recordings of it, and you’ll be able to access that long after the event is over. It’s at the Orleans Hotel. We have a negotiated room rate of about 56 bucks a night, I think so it’s dirt cheap.

It’s on February 17th. 18th and 19th of 2020. People can get that super early bird rate right now, and they can join all of us for what is an awesome event. This is, by the way, at the conference, for those who are passionate about helping other people with professional hypnosis, there’s no bells and whistles.

There’s no stage hypnosis, there’s no, you know, funky hypnosis. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, I have mark on funky hypnosis, by the way. Right. It’s a, it’s a much smaller conference because it’s really designed. For those who want the techniques and skills to help other people, and I didn’t pick famous presenters. I picked the presenters who are actually doing the real work of working with clients and have ideas to share.

Awesome. Which that’s been a banner on every podcast session the last couple of weeks. But while we’re here in the audio format, where should they go for that? They can simply, actually they can just go to hypnotherapy board.com and keep it simple. Keep it simple cause there’s a link there. Although that link will lead to the H PT I webpage, that’s fine.

So h pt i.org. But just go to hypnotherapy board.com or subliminal science.com and there links everywhere over to the actual registration podcast. For me, and I’ve been putting that up there as well. Before we wrap it up here, this whole theme of taking the profession into the future and making use of some of the evidence based strategies and making use of the research that really does support us as a first line strategy for change.

Any final thoughts to share before we wrap it up here? Nope. So much information already covered. I love it. , this is where you bus busted my system for the last 30 episodes I’ve been going, Ooh, let’s give the uh guests the last word by what’s an inspirational thing you’d like to share? And no enough is enough already.

Read the research. Enjoy the research. There you go. Research and share a passionate with other people. My inspirational word of the day is research. There you go. Jason Lynette here once again, and as always, thank you so much for interacting with this program, for leaving your reviews online and sharing this on your social media streams.

Once again, head over to work smart hypnosis.com/reese. Search to get all the resources attached to this week’s episode. That’s where you can also check out the upcoming Train the Trainer event, uh, with the I C B C H. That’s happening both in November, 2019 in Springfield, Virginia Plus, right after the H P T I Winter Hypnosis Convention in February, 2020.

All the details over the show [email protected] slash research. We’ll see you there. Thanks for listening to the Work Smart Hypnosis podcast and work smart hypnosis.com.